An easy major Gpa vs difficult

[Willliams]

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If someone were to major in a relatively difficult subject, such as mathematics, engineering or physics, what gpa would that student need to obtain that would be equivalent to a 4.0 gpa from an easy major, such as psychology or philosophy?

 

[ChemEngMD]

If someone were to major in a relatively difficult subject, such as mathematics, engineering or physics, what gpa would that student need to obtain that would be equivalent to a 4.0 gpa from an easy major, such as psychology or philosophy?

Just get a 4.0....I was an engineer and thought I would get a big boost from doing a "difficult" major but, after talking to a lot of adcomms, as long as you do well in a major you care about and ace your pre-req courses you'll be viewed the same.

My 3.3 in engineering is still a 3.3 they may give you some boost at certain schools, but schools that screen for GPA will kick you to the curb regardless of major

Philosophy may actually be a unique major that they'd be interested in.

 

[jk1006]

If someone were to major in a relatively difficult subject, such as mathematics, engineering or physics, what gpa would that student need to obtain that would be equivalent to a 4.0 gpa from an easy major, such as psychology or philosophy?

i took a philosophy class, i do not think that major would be easy
very abstract

 

[freakingoutabit]

If someone were to major in a relatively difficult subject, such as mathematics, engineering or physics, what gpa would that student need to obtain that would be equivalent to a 4.0 gpa from an easy major, such as psychology or philosophy?

Don't underestimate the difficulty of different degree programs. Science classes absolutely require a lot of time and focus, but many science majors would drown if they had to write 5 20-page research papers in a 4 week span (particularly judging by the syntax and fallacies in many of the posts in this forum).

 

[BABSstudent]

If someone were to major in a relatively difficult subject, such as mathematics, engineering or physics, what gpa would that student need to obtain that would be equivalent to a 4.0 gpa from an easy major, such as psychology or philosophy?

There's no equivilent GPA. If you get a 3.8 it is a 3.8, if you get a 3.1 it is a 3.1.

The advice around here is always the same. Pick a major that you will enjoy because you will do better in it and be happier.

 

[BlueLabel]

There's no equivilent GPA. If you get a 3.8 it is a 3.8, if you get a 3.1 it is a 3.1.

The advice around here is always the same. Pick a major that you will enjoy because you will do better in it and be happier.

+1

Also this question is even harder to answer since GPA inflation/deflation varies from one university to another.

 

[mimelim]

Just get a 4.0....I was an engineer and thought I would get a big boost from doing a "difficult" major but, after talking to a lot of adcomms, as long as you do well in a major you care about and ace your pre-req courses you'll be viewed the same.

My 3.3 in engineering is still a 3.3 they may give you some boost at certain schools, but schools that screen for GPA will kick you to the curb regardless of major

Philosophy may actually be a unique major that they'd be interested in.

My 3.4 was good enough for every top 10 school I applied to. The hard cut-offs are much lower than you would expect.

There is no "boost" for a "hard" major. The major that you do and the courses you take are the context of your GPA. If you are hammering out hard classes and doing well in them, people notice. Someone who is challenging themselves and doing well is going to be an excellent candidate for medical school. Even now I can talk about my undergrad classes I took almost a decade ago, even things like Islamic civilization, 400 level E&M, Mechanics etc. Take things that interest you and work your butt off. If you can't maintain a decent GPA doing that, consider doing something else.

 

[487806]

If someone were to major in a relatively difficult subject, such as mathematics, engineering or physics, what gpa would that student need to obtain that would be equivalent to a 4.0 gpa from an easy major, such as psychology or philosophy?

Same. Get a 4.0. As a physics major, this ain't easy I tell ya (although people would tell me that taking a break from SDN would remedy it )

My 3.4 was good enough for every top 10 school I applied to. The hard cut-offs are much lower than you would expect.

There is no "boost" for a "hard" major. The major that you do and the courses you take are the context of your GPA. If you are hammering out hard classes and doing well in them, people notice. Someone who is challenging themselves and doing well is going to be an excellent candidate for medical school. Even now I can talk about my undergrad classes I took almost a decade ago, even things like Islamic civilization, 400 level E&M, Mechanics etc. Take things that interest you and work your butt off. If you can't maintain a decent GPA doing that, consider doing something else.

@bolded You and your subtle humblebrag. There's more to the story lol

In seriousness, 100% agreed.

 

[mimelim]

@bolded You and your subtle humblebrag. There's more to the story lol

In seriousness, 100% agreed.

Just making the simple point 🙂 and it isn't exactly subtle 😉. Hard cut-offs where your application doesn't get looked at are lower than most people think.

 

[487806]

Just making the simple point 🙂 and it isn't exactly subtle 😉. Hard cut-offs where your application doesn't get looked at are lower than most people think.

False. A low GPA and low MCAT are enough to make a hard cut-off (like a 3.4 and 30 or below).

 

[ChemEngMD]

Just making the simple point 🙂 and it isn't exactly subtle 😉. Hard cut-offs where your application doesn't get looked at are lower than most people think.

I agree with you, but we both know that for a 3.4 student to get a really good look there needs to be more than just the engineering major attached...there needs to be a whole story and strong ECs and research behind it.

I am getting interviews from top 20s, and I've spoken to adcomms from others, and the cut off is usually between 3.0 and 3.3, but still...I think a 3.9 in an "easier" major would still be considered higher up the totem pole than a 3.3 or 3.4 in a "hard" major in most cases.

Just my opinion...I based this on anecdotes, no hard facts.

 

[gyngyn]

We want people who have distinguished themselves in their field of study. There is no preference for any field.

 

[Womb Raider]

There's no equivilent GPA. If you get a 3.8 it is a 3.8, if you get a 3.1 it is a 3.1.

The advice around here is always the same. Pick a major that you will enjoy because you will do better in it and be happier.

Agree wholeheartedly.

+1 for using notepad.

 

[yehhhboiii]

Just get a 4.0....I was an engineer and thought I would get a big boost from doing a "difficult" major but, after talking to a lot of adcomms, as long as you do well in a major you care about and ace your pre-req courses you'll be viewed the same.

My 3.3 in engineering is still a 3.3 they may give you some boost at certain schools, but schools that screen for GPA will kick you to the curb regardless of major

Philosophy may actually be a unique major that they'd be interested in.

hey if it makes you feel better, i think you deserve a boost
the grading for engineering is rough. other majors should take notes on how to grade students properly

 

[kyamh]

There's no equivilent GPA. If you get a 3.8 it is a 3.8, if you get a 3.1 it is a 3.1.

The advice around here is always the same. Pick a major that you will enjoy because you will do better in it and be happier.

Agree, and I can't stress the bolded part enough. I took a few classes pass/fail at my school and the class I enjoyed more - even though it had a more difficult course load - I got through with what would have been an A-. The class I hated - though it was an "easy" class - I just barely passed with a C+ and had to work really hard at the end to get even there. The reason I bring this up is that I had equal motivation to do equally well in both courses since they weren't graded. Yet, I performed much better without trying in the course I liked.

 

[kyamh]

hey if it makes you feel better, i think you deserve a boost
the grading for engineering is rough. other majors should take notes on how to grade students properly

There is a reason that adcoms pay attention to how you perform in upper level science courses...

 

[circulus vitios]

My 3.4 was good enough for every top 10 school I applied to. The hard cut-offs are much lower than you would expect.

There is no "boost" for a "hard" major. The major that you do and the courses you take are the context of your GPA. If you are hammering out hard classes and doing well in them, people notice. Someone who is challenging themselves and doing well is going to be an excellent candidate for medical school. Even now I can talk about my undergrad classes I took almost a decade ago, even things like Islamic civilization, 400 level E&M, Mechanics etc. Take things that interest you and work your butt off. If you can't maintain a decent GPA doing that, consider doing something else.

FYI mimelim had a 99th percentile MCAT score to go along with that 3.4 GPA.

 

[mimelim]

FYI mimelim had a 99th percentile MCAT score to go along with that 3.4 GPA.

I am not sure what this has to do with hard cut-offs or what to major in, but ok.

 

[Willliams]

Second Question:

So, if you were to take a hard science major, such as physics or Biology, how positively would that impact your MCAT score compared to a degree that doesn't cover anything on the MCAT, such as women's studies?

 

[freakingoutabit]

Second Question:

So, if you were to take a hard science major, such as physics or Biology, how positively would that impact your MCAT score compared to a degree that doesn't cover anything on the MCAT, such as women's studies?

Because the MCAT only covers intro level material, it wouldn't help much. A physiology/human bio class would help, but everything else will be covered in pre-reqs (and won't be covered in upper level science classes). The MCAT is a mile wide and an inch deep. You don't need to know a ton about anything, but you need to know the basics of everything backwards and forwards.

If anything, the best thing you can do for your score (besides taking the pre-reqs and studying) is to take a few classes that involve critically reading primary source material. Many people struggle with the verbal section because they've spent 3 years reading bio textbooks, and the verbal section is probably the hardest to learn from review books. You can definitely improve by studying, but to some extent you either get it or you don't.

 

[Goro]

STRONGLY concur.

There's no equivilent GPA. If you get a 3.8 it is a 3.8, if you get a 3.1 it is a 3.1.

The advice around here is always the same. Pick a major that you will enjoy because you will do better in it and be happier.

 

[Womb Raider]

So, if you were to take a hard science major, such as physics or Biology, how positively would that impact your MCAT score compared to a degree that doesn't cover anything on the MCAT, such as women's studies?

Because the MCAT only covers intro level material, it wouldn't help much. A physiology/human bio class would help, but everything else will be covered in pre-reqs (and won't be covered in upper level science classes). The MCAT is a mile wide and an inch deep. You don't need to know a ton about anything, but you need to know the basics of everything backwards and forwards.

Taking a "hard science major" such as physics or bio would DEFINITELY help you on your MCAT. However, do not fall under the illusion that this is required for a good MCAT score. I majored in fashion and had wonderful MCAT scores.

The MCAT is all about having the information second nature to you. The more classes you take, the more you are exposed to this sort of information and the more you use it. Even the high level bio/chem/physics courses STILL USE the basics. The courses build on themselves, knowing the basics is required if you want to do good in the upper level classes.

However, when you start studying for the MCAT and doing the passages, you must be very conscientious to not bring in outside information when answering the questions. This is an obstacle to overcome no matter what your major, but if you are an expert in biology, chemistry or physics, you'll tend to want to do this more.

 

[BLACKMD]

Is this "cutoff" everyone speaks of based on cGPA or sGPA? Because I'm a nontrad my cGPA is a 3.8 but my sGPA is kinda sucking at a ~3.3.

 

[freakingoutabit]

Taking a "hard science major" such as physics or bio would DEFINITELY help you on your MCAT. However, do not fall under the illusion that this is required for a good MCAT score. I majored in fashion and had wonderful MCAT scores.

The MCAT is all about having the information second nature to you. The more classes you take, the more you are exposed to this sort of information and the more you use it. Even the high level bio/chem/physics courses STILL USE the basics. The courses build on themselves, knowing the basics is required if you want to do good in the upper level classes.

However, when you start studying for the MCAT and doing the passages, you must be very conscientious to not bring in outside information when answering the questions. This is an obstacle to overcome no matter what your major, but if you are an expert in biology, chemistry or physics, you'll tend to want to do this more.

Here's a breakdown of average MCAT score by major. Math and Physical Sciences majors have the highest scores, but their average total score is only half a point above humanities majors'. Humanities majors score, on average, over a point higher than Biology majors.

Bottom line (which has been said on this forum so many times that it's ridiculous): major in what you enjoy and make the best grades you can. Your major doesn't matter.

https://www.aamc.org/download/161692/data/table18.pdf

 

[Womb Raider]

Here's a breakdown of average MCAT score by major. Math and Physical Sciences majors have the highest scores, but their average total score is only half a point above humanities majors'. Humanities majors score, on average, over a point higher than Biology majors.

Bottom line (which has been said on this forum so many times that it's ridiculous): major in what you enjoy and make the best grades you can. Your major doesn't matter.

https://www.aamc.org/download/161692/data/table18.pdf

Didn't say majoring in a science would improve your score, I said it would help him on the test.

Majoring in a science keeps that subject fresh on your mind throughout undergrad. If you knock out bio and physics classes freshman year, and take the MCAT junior year - you could have had a 1-2 year break from even looking at this material. When this happens, you have to practically reteach yourself the entire class while studying for the MCAT. It just makes things easier.

However, as foab said, major in what you enjoy - you will thank yourself later I promise.

 

[487806]

FYI mimelim had a 99th percentile MCAT score to go along with that 3.4 GPA.

I am not sure what this has to do with hard cut-offs or what to major in, but ok.

Because for the most part, students with a 3.4 usually don't have a strong MCAT. Instead, they have like a 30 or below. It's hard to make a point that a GPA isn't considered primarily in your case, since your MCAT and ECs showed your true potential. Plus, you were a physics major and took a rigorous courseload. That's why saying a 3.4 isn't a hard cut-off and using yourself as an example seems a bit misleading.

Of course, I am likely wrong, so I apologize in advance. I feel guilty brushing you off lol 🙁🙁🙁😳😳

Second Question:

So, if you were to take a hard science major, such as physics or Biology, how positively would that impact your MCAT score compared to a degree that doesn't cover anything on the MCAT, such as women's studies?

It wouldn't help much.

 

[mimelim]

Because for the most part, students with a 3.4 usually don't have a strong MCAT. Instead, they have like a 30 or below. It's hard to make a point that a GPA isn't considered primarily in your case, since your MCAT and ECs showed your true potential. Plus, you were a physics major and took a rigorous courseload. That's why saying a 3.4 isn't a hard cut-off and using yourself as an example seems a bit misleading.

Of course, I am likely wrong, so I apologize in advance. I feel guilty brushing you off lol 🙁🙁🙁😳😳



It wouldn't help much.

The only point that I was making was that the "application thrown out based off of GPA" line is below 3.4 for every school that I know of, including the 'top' schools. I am not implying anything else. Your application will not get simply tossed out if you have a 3.4. Obviously, if you don't have much else in your application worth reading about, it will be, but it doesn't get shreaded at the door, which is what I would call a "hard cut-off".

 

[Yorick]

There's no equivilent GPA. If you get a 3.8 it is a 3.8, if you get a 3.1 it is a 3.1.

The advice around here is always the same. Pick a major that you will enjoy because you will do better in it and be happier.

I'd say a 3.8 in electrical engineering is a bit more impressive than a 3.8 in english LOL.

 

[gyngyn]

I'd say a 3.8 in electrical engineering is a bit more impressive than a 3.8 in english LOL.

Many would disagree.

 

[commoncold]

many would disagree.

+1

 

[mehc012]

Don't underestimate the difficulty of different degree programs. Science classes absolutely require a lot of time and focus, but many science majors would drown if they had to write 5 20-page research papers in a 4 week span (particularly judging by the syntax and fallacies in many of the posts in this forum).

Does a 10-pg paper every other week count, cuz that's not an incredibly uncommon phenomenon even for the sciences (I only used that example because that is the most common format for writing intensive science courses where I went to school).

 

[premed3445]

I'd say a 3.8 in electrical engineering is a bit more impressive than a 3.8 in english LOL.

Having had an engineering background, I think it would be safe to say that many of us are going to be in perpetual disagreement regarding which major is "harder" and will be looked upon "more favorably" and which isn't.

It would make sense to me (and I believe that this is the general consensus), is that GPA is looked at in the context of the workload you have done. A person who distinguished himself/herself (substitute any non-gender specific word if you wish) through a rigorous courseload would be looked more favorably than a person who took the "easy way" out.

That being said, don't choose a major that you're going to hate being in. You'll wind up with a negative attitude, and THAT will affect your GPA. Choose something you're passionate in and distinguish and challenge yourself in that major. If you do something you love, and you're good at it, it will be reflected in your GPA. And your passion for what you do will be reflected in your achievements and when you're asked about it during interviews.

 

[mcloaf]

I'd say a 3.8 in electrical engineering is a bit more impressive than a 3.8 in english LOL.

I'm assuming you know this from double majoring in english and electrical engineering, right?

 

[circulus vitios]

I'm assuming you know this from double majoring in english and electrical engineering, right?

I have to leave for work in 5 minutes, but I'm fairly confident that engineering departmental GPAs are on average lower than English departmental GPAs. I'm sure the data is out there, if you want to look it up.

 

[notbobtrustme]

@bolded You and your subtle humblebrag. There's more to the story lol

In seriousness, 100% agreed.

Every. Single. Post. of his is a humble brag. Look at me, I'm not awesome, I'm just the best GI scoper in our program. I'm not that awesome, I just have the best surgical technique in our entire class.

It gets annoying.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I agree with the idea of choosing a field that interests you as you are more likely to be able to do well, but I'd also suggest doing something that would allow you to get employed after graduation in case life happens and you get delayed applying, have an illness, change your mind about medical school, take a gap year, don't get in on your first try, etc.

The number of people who start premed and the number who matriculate are very different, so do what you love that will work as a backup plan.

 

[TriagePreMed]

If someone were to major in a relatively difficult subject, such as mathematics, engineering or physics, what gpa would that student need to obtain that would be equivalent to a 4.0 gpa from an easy major, such as psychology or philosophy?

You'd need a 4.0 to be equivalent to a 4.0 of any of those majors. Besides, those majors are not exactly "easy" for everyone. Looking at how so many pre-meds can't even break a 6 on VR, they'd have a nightmare time doing something like philosophy.

 

[Gauss44]

If someone were to major in a relatively difficult subject, such as mathematics, engineering or physics, what gpa would that student need to obtain that would be equivalent to a 4.0 gpa from an easy major, such as psychology or philosophy?

The problem is in the definition of "easy" and "difficult." As some people have pointed out, in this case perception is not reality.

Personally, I've found premed classes the EASIEST to get A's in. Premed instructors warned us not to take engineering classes when our courses filled up. They said it would ruin our gpas.

In music composition class, I had an instructor who wouldn't give anyone an A. He said, "only Beethoven deserves an A."

I even had a physical fitness class that was rough because, to get an A, you had to beat your personal best by a certain percentage - and good job me (sarcastically), I benched over 200lbs on my 1st day of class and ran a 6 minute mile. I had to spend extra money that semester on food and a tutor to make up for time in the gym and ridiculously large amounts of calories burned. If I worked out too hard, I would become fatigued and fall asleep despite any amount of coffee, wasting even more time.

Then there was this philosophy class I took where we all had to read Descartes Cartesian Method of Doubt and some other philosophy about Allegory of the Cave and governments. With next to no help, we had to answer questions about the "right" interpretation of those stories and were graded on a curve. So, I dunno, the "easy classes" aren't always as easy as they sound.

All of the above turned out fine grade-wise. I admit to being challenged.

 

[Gauss44]

I'd say a 3.8 in electrical engineering is a bit more impressive than a 3.8 in english LOL.

This also depends on the person and circumstances:

I know of a well-known tutor in Boston who helps ESL kids with MCAT, SAT, etc. He majored in English despite English being his second language: http://expertbeacon.com/how-get-10-or-better-mcat-verbal-section/#.Uhe_StWnapg If English is your second language, it might be the more difficult major. In addition, I come from a town that is over 60 percent Hispanic. Some of my best high school friends were ESL and majored in English to help teach those struggling with language back home. <---- That sort of a story, mixed with premed, I think is exactly what some Adcoms want to hear.

I also know of many people who dared to major (or double major) in something that their small rural high school didn't offer, like music, philosophy, etc. With little background relative their peers, they had a lot of catching up to do. Adcoms may or may not appreciate this.

 

[Yorick]

I'm pretty sure LizzyM said somewhere awhile ago a 3.8 in a major like EE is more impressive than for a more average major.

 

[freakingoutabit]

There are so many variables that go into a major's average GPA that I think it's silly and unproductive to compare them. Just to name a few off the top of my head:

1. Many departments have ways of weeding out potentially low-performing students before they start taking any classes. Art, Theater, and Creative Writing are a few examples where, at many schools, students have to submit a portfolio of work or audition to be considered. When you've already selected the top students out of all who are interested, it makes sense that fewer students would struggle.

2. It is easier to fail a test than it is to get an F on a paper. As a result, low performing students in classes like English and Philosophy tend to get Cs, and low performing students in Physics tend to get Ds and Fs. That doesn't mean that getting As in an English or Philosophy class requires drastically less time or effort than getting As in a science class. That does mean, though, that the average GPA of a science class will be lower than that of an English class.

3. Because pre-meds (and pre-other stuff) typically choose science majors, the sciences are filled with people who probably wouldn't major in them if they weren't chasing the doctor dream. (The number of posts on this forum that ask, "WHAT MAJOR WILL PLEASE THE ALMIGHTY ADCOMs?!?!?!" is an indication of this.) The only people who major in Philosophy, History, English, etc. are there because they love that ****. They're certainly not chasing money or a flashy career. Genuine interest in the material => better grades.

 

[ichor]

If anything, the best thing you can do for your score (besides taking the pre-reqs and studying) is to take a few classes that involve critically reading primary source material.

STEM drone here...tell me more!

 

[Koalafied]

If someone were to major in a relatively difficult subject, such as mathematics, engineering or physics, what gpa would that student need to obtain that would be equivalent to a 4.0 gpa from an easy major, such as psychology or philosophy?

easy? 😆

 

[premed3445]

I'm pretty sure LizzyM said somewhere awhile ago a 3.8 in a major like EE is more impressive than for a more average major.

Source? I think I remember reading before that she said that GPA between majors are viewed equally. Either way, this topic has been beaten to death over and over again over the years. People are going to be in perpetual disagreement, and nothing is going to change for the time being.

 

[487806]

easy? 😆

Well yeah. OP knows all the branches of philosophy with ease.

 

[imadome]

-

 

[circulus vitios]

Every. Single. Post. of his is a humble brag. Look at me, I'm not awesome, I'm just the best GI scoper in our program. I'm not that awesome, I just have the best surgical technique in our entire class.

It gets annoying.

It's funny because it's true.

Also, I think he claimed to be the best GI scoper in the entire hospital?

 

[premed3445]

From LizzyM:

Ok, thanks!

 

[gettheleadout]

Not sure why I had any hope for this thread...

 

[circulus vitios]

There is no "boost" for a "hard" major. The major that you do and the courses you take are the context of your GPA. If you are hammering out hard classes and doing well in them, people notice. Someone who is challenging themselves and doing well is going to be an excellent candidate for medical school.

Even now I can talk about my undergrad classes I took almost a decade ago, even things like Islamic civilization, 400 level E&M, Mechanics etc.

It's not that simple. Admissions committee members are people. Some members will value a 3.8 in EE over a 3.8, 3.7, 3.6... in English, while some won't. Of course, this depends on getting past sort by: GPA (descending.)