- Joined
- Apr 22, 2013
- Messages
- 60
- Reaction score
- 9
Last edited:
You're experience with VIDA is very different from mine, but I also went about 2 years ago. It's strange how much their policies changed over that time, and thank you for letting people know what they're getting in to by going with VIDA. During my trip we actually performed the surgeries under the supervision of a licensed vet, which would only step in if there was a problem or we needed extra guidance. We also stayed with homestays and spent no more than 3 nights in big hotels (we spent 1 night in a locally owned hotel near the airport). We ate almost entirely at locally owned restaurants that served local cuisine, and we walked around the markets in Costa Rica and Nicaragua. I find it really interesting that they've now switched to keeping the pre-vets at more tourist attractions on their trips and less of the actual world. I'm sorry that changed for you, but I'm glad you got some cultural experiences through Ayuda. Good luck in your journey.
Personally, I went into my VIDA trip thinking that I would be comfortable doing cat neuters under the supervision of a vet. I'm surprised there isn't a feral cat project abroad (as far as I know) that courts pre-vets and vet students explicitly for this purpose.
Yet, I just came from a trip where the four of us undergrads spent over $13,000 to do much less exciting volunteer work than cat neuters. (An amount nearly equal to the annual operating budget of the local org I visited, which accomplishes so much more.) There's a market for pre-vets who want hands-on experiences, and VIDA's not the only group tapping into that demand. They're just the most famous and controversial because they (used to?) allow pre-vets do surgeries.
And my group, mostly people from SDN.
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Random brainstorm, but maybe we should get some organization here in the U.S. to organize a trip for SDN students.
Pretty sure I know where we could find a vet or two that might be enticed into coming.
Like a 10-day summer trip next summer.
It'd have to work within the constraints of clinical rotations.
Oh. Clinics. I forgot I don't get another summer.
Sigh.
As a vet student, I just can't picture paying thousands to go neuter a bunch of cats. That's all. 🙂 It doesn't give a good return on investment for skill building.
I resent the tiresome implications that those of us who work on international animal welfare issues callously ignore problems in our own neighborhoods.
I'm a big proponent of not falling for false dichotomy that one can care about and work on global or local issues, but not both. And I resent the tiresome implications that those of us who work on international animal welfare issues callously ignore problems in our own neighborhoods.
As far as starting with your own neighborhood, it certainly doesn't have to be an either/or situation but I do think there is a dangerous tendency for people to think of the poor/underserved/needy as "other" - separate, far away and part of a separate reality. And there is a certain glamorization or idealization of poor people in other countries whereas the poor in our own cities are scary/dirty/inconvenient. People do not like to see the pain and suffering in their own communities because it makes it more real and, in a way, means it could happen to them too. As future vets I feel that it is so important to be present in our own communities because we have such a potential to be an everyday force for good - to understand the options available for our struggling clients, to feel empathy and not disgust or mistrust when a local client has financial woes, to have good relationships with the local charitable organizations, to understand the realities of our local overpopulation - most of us will be practicing in our own countries and need to realize what we can do every single day to help.
You're experience with VIDA is very different from mine, but I also went about 2 years ago. It's strange how much their policies changed over that time, and thank you for letting people know what they're getting in to by going with VIDA. During my trip we actually performed the surgeries under the supervision of a licensed vet, which would only step in if there was a problem or we needed extra guidance. We also stayed with homestays and spent no more than 3 nights in big hotels (we spent 1 night in a locally owned hotel near the airport). We ate almost entirely at locally owned restaurants that served local cuisine, and we walked around the markets in Costa Rica and Nicaragua. I find it really interesting that they've now switched to keeping the pre-vets at more tourist attractions on their trips and less of the actual world. I'm sorry that changed for you, but I'm glad you got some cultural experiences through Ayuda. Good luck in your journey.
Same here. I went before everything changed. Some of the vets were still using zip ties when I went (and I refused to participate in that part). I went in 2011 to Costa Rica and Nicaragua.Ditto. It's changed a lot, I think. And a huge reason for the change is the giant **** fit that everyone threw when they found out that pre-vets were allowed to do surgeries.
So where's the happy balance there?
I have nothing but good things to say about my VIDA experience from 2010.
If you want, I can dig up a couple of old threads for you guys...
It disappoints me that from what I can tell, international and rez volunteering are largely seen as things to do just to score points with admissions committees, but not projects where people would fritter away their energy and money after they gain admission to vet school.
I think you probably can take peoples' comments more charitably than that; I feel like you're trying to take comments the worst possible way. Before vet school, sure, you need to "score points" to get in. It's a fact of life. And trips like this are a good way; the average person doesn't have much tissue handling skill and so helping out on a trip like you described is a good match of ability and need.
Once you're in vet school and start gaining some tissue-handling skill, though, your challenge becomes to ramp that up as much as possible so that you're best prepared when you graduate. And, you have to do that on an extremely limited time budget, and usually on a pretty tight financial budget.
That was the point of my comment about it being inefficient. It's simply a matter of context and priorities - spending thousands to go overseas during vet school to assist/do a small handful of procedures just isn't a very good way to build up skill at a time when building up skill is what you need to be doing the most, and you often don't have time to do much else. You may find that you had lots of time for overseas work before vet school, and can make time after, but don't have much time during.
It's not at all the way you characterized it (as "Oh, I get in, now I don't have to do anything to impress the admissions people...."). For most of us, anyway.
I'm currently trying to find my own trip to Japan. I met a vet today who has connections over there, so he's looking. ^_^ I've been searching with little to no luck so far on finding a vet-related trip to Japan, so if I go, it will be something very few people have done. I'm ready for that kind of experience, but I wasn't several years ago.
I'd think the opportunity to get surgical practice would be of even more practical use to a vet student than a pre-vet. Not for impressing adcoms, but for building skills. A huge complaint I've heard by and about fresh vet school grads is that they have very little surgical experience. I've had more than one vet tell me to make sure to seize every chance in vet school to do surgeries, because there aren't enough (unless you do an internship/residency). I've heard of 3rd and 4th year vet students going on VIDA trips precisely because they're trying to supplement their lack of surgical experience, and couldn't find ways to do so at home.
I find that reality inconsistent with suggestions that there are endless free opportunities for vet students to perform all the spays and neuters they want without having to pay for travel or a program fee. Good for you if you can get that at your school or local shelter, but I think structured programs like VIDA do play a role in veterinary education besides just letting pre-vets buy an LOR and try their hands at suturing. If I were choosing between graduating with only a few surgeries under my belt, or adding $2-3k onto a $200-300k student loan, I'd pick the international trip route.
I'd think the opportunity to get surgical practice would be of even more practical use to a vet student than a pre-vet.
I find that reality inconsistent with suggestions that there are endless free opportunities for vet students to perform all the spays and neuters they want without having to pay for travel or a program fee.
If I were choosing between graduating with only a few surgeries under my belt, or adding $2-3k onto a $200-300k student loan, I'd pick the international trip route.
Thanks for your input and advice! It was really helpful. 😀 I actually took Japanese courses in undergrad, but I'm nowhere near fluent. I've spent a lot of time around Japanese exchange students here in the US and I have a few friends over there now, so I'm aware that Japanese people love to have Americans visit. I really would like to go over and visit after all the time I spent studying the language. That's the main reason I'm looking there specifically. I'm looking for more of a wildlife or research experience than a small animal hospital experience, but if it ends up being best for me to spend time in a small animal hospital, I'm all for it. My externship/free hours here at MSU are mostly going to go towards PhD work, so I don't mind taking a few weeks off to study something fun even if it involves limited hands-on stuff.There's actually a hospital in Tokyo whose owner was very impressed with the teaching hospital/specialty clinic model in the US, and therefore really encourages vet students from Japanese vet schools to extern there. They're actually named after Angell. "Angell memorial hiroo central clinic" I think is what it's called. Edit: They've moved and are now the Daktari Animal Hospital, which is the hospital that partners with CSU.
I have a feeling they'd also set up something with anyone from a US school. You're more ballsy than I am though, I'm a Japanese native speaker and while kind of rusty vocab-wise at the moment, I am bilingual and would be able to get around just fine in Japan. But I would not feel comfortable doing vet work in Japan. I mean, a Client at a clinic here who only speaks Japanese I could def handle, but I wouldn't be able to practice in Japan unless there was another English speaking vet in the hospital. I thought about setting something up in Japan and just stay at my parents' place, but i decided against it. Partly that's because there's a special sense of shame if you're Japanese and have language issues (you just seem socially awkward) vs. a foreigner. Japanese people looooove (particularly white) foreigners, so if you fit in that category you may be golden. If you happen to be another variety of Asian American, it may or may not be as comfortable. But in a professional setting, esp in a city with lots of foreigners, it really shouldn't be a big deal either way. Also, a big part of why I also didn't choose to do something in Japan is because I only want my externships to be packed with practical hands on things and focus solely on the medicine/client comm/surgery/etc... and don't want to do anything just for the "experience."But if you just want to go and experience vet work in Japan, I would go for it. Oh, and apparently they actually have English speaking vets and caters to ex-pats so it might actually be an ideal experience I may actually try to set something up with them just for a day or two as well when I go and visit in Dec.
Also, my two kitties in Japan go to a vet in Chiba who spent a year as a visiting scholar vet at Ohio State. So I would bet that he would at least consider taking in an extern from the US, and he may be able to alleviate language barriers. It's a GP clinic with a couple of doctors I think. They looove my tinkerbelle because she's funny looking, and they loooove Minnie because she's a Burmese and they're very rare in Japan. He told my mom he's read about them in school, but had never seen one as a patient. Last wellness visit, I convinced my mom to get a baseline geriatric wellness screens on the two cats done, and he sent her home with the CBC/Chem printout saying that I would prob like to see 🙂
A huge complaint I've heard by and about fresh vet school grads is that they have very little surgical experience. I've had more than one vet tell me to make sure to seize every chance in vet school to do surgeries, because there aren't enough (unless you do an internship/residency). I've heard of 3rd and 4th year vet students going on VIDA trips precisely because they're trying to supplement their lack of surgical experience, and couldn't find ways to do so at home.
At Mississippi State, they make sure we get lots of surgical experience. My best friend is a second year student, and her lab group just did their first surgeries last week. She's going to be the lead surgeon for their second round of surgeries next week.Even if you seize every chance, you will have relatively little surgical experience.
Hi all!