An MD after a DO school?

[tcamdg]

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They are not the same. Don't fool yourself. No ONE WILL EVER ASK YOU!!! WHAT IS AN MD!

The truth: "MD" after your name is just a status symbol, and your comment here admits this.

Rarely do people ask physicians where did you go to school.. tell me tell me.

This is quite false, at least in my experience.

MD from Carib schools, you do rotations in the states, no one give a $hISA as long as you are not going for Radiology and Surgery at Ivy School.

I might give a $hISA if I knew what that is, and I think other people would, too...which is why it's more difficult for FMG's to get competitive residencies.

 

[mshheaddoc]

I am no expert on foreign DO schools, but isn't it possible that this individual completed a DO (manipulation only) school and then went to med school? He is from India.

That could be it but I posted where they stated he went to medical school and the school looks to offer the MBBS. They didn't mention anything about osteopathy schooling and he did his fellowship here. He was 18 entering school and 26 as optho surg. 8 years for school (which is like 4+ years there and then internship, then residency would make sense). Unless he left medicine after graduating residency to persue osteopathy in the UK or Australia or somewhere like that I can't find any schools of osteopathy in India. Anyone else have any luck?

 

[tcamdg]

That could be it but I posted where they stated he went to medical school and the school looks to offer the MBBS. They didn't mention anything about osteopathy schooling and he did his fellowship here. He was 18 entering school and 26 as optho surg. 8 years for school (which is like 4+ years there and then internship, then residency would make sense). Unless he left medicine after graduating residency to persue osteopathy in the UK or Australia or somewhere like that I can't find any schools of osteopathy in India. Anyone else have any luck?

I think it's a typo, and that he is a doctor of optometry (maybe in addition to MD).

 

[mshheaddoc]

I think it's a typo, and that he is a doctor of optometry (maybe in addition to MD).

Optometry is a totally separately profession and schooling too. This is just confusing. Who wants to call and ask him to clarify? 😀

 

[scpod]

Anyone else have any luck?

Another possibility: I looked on another site (the laser eye company thing) that listed him without the MD at all. I read somewhere that Indian schools can confer the MD degree after an MBBS does a specialty. Could he have done a program like the emigre one at NYCOM to get in the US, then been given the MD from India after his residency?

 

[mshheaddoc]

Another possibility: I looked on another site (the laser eye company thing) that listed him without the MD at all. I read somewhere that Indian schools can confer the MD degree after an MBBS does a specialty. Could he have done a program like the emigre one at NYCOM to get in the US, then been given the MD from India after his residency?

Yes, there are a few ways to do the MBBS = MD route. This was debated in allo recently in a thread. Also the MD is an academic medical degree in other countries that requires a research thesis.

 

[group_theory]

you do realize he practices in Canada, where their "DO" school is purely osteopathy, not osteopathic medicine

 

[JaggerPlate]

I can't believe I just wasted 10 minutes reading this whole thread... good grief! 🙄

I feel the same way ...

 

[Krazykritter]

Why can't we close this god-forsaken thread already?? There is absolutely no reason this should have stayed open beyond the second post where spicedmanna answered the OP's questions.

I wish to invoke the power of the mod's in this ridiculous thread.

 

[tcamdg]

Optometry is a totally separately profession and schooling too. This is just confusing. Who wants to call and ask him to clarify? 😀

I had nothing to do this afternoon, so I sent them a message using their "Contact Us" form telling them they had a typo. Maybe they'll respond with clarification or fix it.

 

[LizUMD]

Another MD,DO...
http://www.worldhealth.net/p/142.html

Looks like he is American and his MD is from a foreign school (Central America) and his DO is American. Wonder if he did one of those programs for DO students to convert to an MD?

BTW, is it proper for him to refer to his DO degree as "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery" and to DMU as the "College of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery"?

My mom is a DO and I've never heard the "and surgery" bit before.

 

[Krazykritter]

Another MD,DO...
http://www.worldhealth.net/p/142.html

Looks like he is American and his MD is from a foreign school (Central America) and his DO is American. Wonder if he did one of those programs for DO students to convert to an MD?

BTW, is it proper for him to refer to his DO degree as "Doctor of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery" and to DMU as the "College of Osteopathic Medicine and Surgery"?

My mom is a DO and I've never heard the "and surgery" bit before.

DMU is/was actually "Des Moines University College of Osteopathic Medicine & Surgery" so technically it is okay. I think the name actually was changed from that fairly recently, but I can't back it up. Although as a student here, I guess the real designation is maybe more applicable b/c of our Podiatry program & there surgical basis here.

 

[BubbaGump187]

Very interesting I wonder how he got it. I think its worth it.

 

[badasshairday]

MD,DO,MBBS! LOL that is ridiculously awesome! 👍

 

[Taus]

Very interesting I wonder how he got it. I think its worth it.

worth it for what? so your future employer (or anyone looking at your resume) can laugh in your face about your mail-order MD?

if you feel so strongly about those initials just sack up and go to st. georges or ross from the get-go

there are plenty of people who will gladly take your seat in DO school in a heart beat.....if its not what you want don't come....simple as that

 

[BWalkerMSU]

OP -

I am being 100% serious with you. BEFORE you decide to do any of this... (DO, MD or your DO/MD) Please talk to some health care professions. Talk to nurses, PAs, Hospital administrators, MDs and DOs. Ask them about the "stigma" attached to the DO degree. Ask them about their experiences with DOs and MDs in various fields. Ask them about DOs vs. FMGs and residencies... These may sound like stupid questions, but they will give you REAL insight into the business and real medicine. MANY, MANY people have felt the way you do and are worried about stigma with DOs simply because a few uninformed, egotistical undergraduates who think they know all about medicine have told them that no patients want to see DOs and that they are not respected in the medical community. I can assure you that in every case, they will tell you that there is no difference in the amount of respect you will receive from colleagues or patients. If residency is your concern, I can honestly tell you that despite where you attend medical school or your degree, you will be able to get into any number of residencies in any specialty if your grades and board scores are adequate and impressive for that specialty.

I think that this would serve you a whole lot better than posting on SDN about it. It is quite apparent that you need something like this because whoever gave you the impression that this DO/MD would be more acceptable than a DO is obviously uninformed themselves.

In fact, I would be willing to bet anything that a person with an DO/MD would be asked MANY more questions than a person with a DO on their coat. Not only would it be obvious to ANYONE in the health care profession that this MD was from a degree mill, most states wouldn't allow you to display it on your credentials anyways. On top of that, you might not be even offered jobs or positions because it would be quite apparent that your moral fiber is less than is desired... So you would have just wasted thousands of dollars on something that is over the border of absurd.

Sorry for the long post, but please, before you make a fool of yourself, and ultimately put yourself in a whole lot more debt than you're already going to be in... do your homework. If the DO is so shaming, don't become one.... or simply don't display it on your coat... Dr. Napoleon should do it 😉

 

[Crookshanks]

PS - foreign countries are also wary of diploma mill MDs so obtaining it might not necessarily gain you additional international practice rights

I'm curious if anyone knows more about this...

I haven't applied to medical school yet, and I love the idea of going to a DO school...so that's not the concern. However, my boyfriend is from the Carribean, and we've talked about the possibility of actually moving down there in the future to live there for good. If I were to get a DO here in America, I would never think about changing it because I don't care to. But, I have heard that DO's are viewed differently in some other countries. If this is the case in his country of birth, then I might consider trying to find a way to get an MD. I'm not sure if it's the case, because I've never bothered to ask around, seeing as I haven't even applied to medical school yet nor do I see us moving anytime in the next decade...but, now that it was brought up here on the boards, I'm curious....anyone know of any islands in the carribean that feel that MD does not equal DO? (I don't want to disclose his island of birth, so I made the question general).

If you go about getting an MD the way it was mentioned here, does it really not make a difference if they already have that prejudice against DO's?

Thanks, and NO I'm not a troll...I just have a carribean boyfriend.

Edit: I just looked it up on the sticky and it says that the scope of practice is limited for the particular country I'm referring to. What does that mean? Anyone know?

 

[Depakote]

Edit: I just looked it up on the sticky and it says that the scope of practice is limited for the particular country I'm referring to. What does that mean? Anyone know?

I would assume that it means DO's are limited to manipulation in that country... however, I believe that list may be outdated:

here's an article about practice in other countries and at the bottom is a number you can call to get specific information about your country in question.

 

[Vizsla]

I dont know if you guys have ever looked at a match list from schools like Ross or SGU, but they are actually pretty good. They match into large university IM programs and have a good number of gen surgery and even some dx radiology and ortho matches. yeah, u prob wont see an FMG matching into derm at stanford or neurosurg at BNI, but then again those matches are unheard of for DO's and most MDs. Dont let yourself fall into the same trap of believing that your degree is "so much better" than someone else's.

 

[docbill]

I dont know if you guys have ever looked at a match list from schools like Ross or SGU, but they are actually pretty good. They match into large university IM programs and have a good number of gen surgery and even some dx radiology and ortho matches. yeah, u prob wont see an FMG matching into derm at stanford or neurosurg at BNI, but then again those matches are unheard of for DO's and most MDs. Dont let yourself fall into the same trap of believing that your degree is "so much better" than someone else's.

I saw SGU's match list.. and I think its pretty impressive!!! But it is difficult to live on the beach for 2 years... rather then in the freezing northeast temperature.

I also have friends that go there and they think the teaching is good. Administration could kind of SU@Ks sometimes.. but you get access to good rotations in NY, help with 4th year electives, and good match record. EVEN doing rotations in Canada and matching at competitive places in Canada. Which is tough.

 

[MaximusD]

MD,DO,MBBS! LOL that is ridiculously awesome! 👍

It will be even more hilarious if he has MPD (not real, I know) and, in the privacy of his own home, ridicules himself for having both an inferiority and superiority complex

 

[mshheaddoc]

I had nothing to do this afternoon, so I sent them a message using their "Contact Us" form telling them they had a typo. Maybe they'll respond with clarification or fix it.

make sure to let us know what you find out!

 

[J1515]

yeah, u prob wont see an FMG matching into derm at stanford or neurosurg at BNI, but then again those matches are unheard of for DO's and most MDs. .

Unheard of for DOs? There are 16 osteopathic dermatology residencies open only to DOs or the 10 osteopathic neurosurgery residencies open only to DOs. (www.scutwork.com)

I'm not saying one degree is better than the other, but before giving advice, please make sure you are informed well enough to do so.

 

[DrBowtie]

Unheard of for DOs? There are 16 osteopathic dermatology residencies open only to DOs or the 10 osteopathic neurosurgery residencies open only to DOs. (www.scutwork.com)

I'm not saying one degree is better than the other, but before giving advice, please make sure you are informed well enough to do so.

Reread his comment. He noted derm AT STANFORD or neurosurgery AT BNI.

 

[Orthodoc40]

I dont know if you guys have ever looked at a match list from schools like Ross or SGU, but they are actually pretty good. They match into large university IM programs and have a good number of gen surgery and even some dx radiology and ortho matches. yeah, u prob wont see an FMG matching into derm at stanford or neurosurg at BNI, but then again those matches are unheard of for DO's and most MDs. Dont let yourself fall into the same trap of believing that your degree is "so much better" than someone else's.

SGU & Ross send out composite type match lists. What I mean is, they are a sampling of matches and not entirely reflective of where everyone in any particular graduating class went. So they can make them look fairly impressive that way. You can't even determine from them how many people in the class did not match that year, and you know it's going to be a fair number. You also have to take a look at the locations most of these matches are.

DO students almost always get preference over FMGs, and therefore, in general, FMG's land up having to take the leftovers for training sites.

 

[Vizsla]

Unheard of for DOs? There are 16 osteopathic dermatology residencies open only to DOs or the 10 osteopathic neurosurgery residencies open only to DOs. (www.scutwork.com)

I'm not saying one degree is better than the other, but before giving advice, please make sure you are informed well enough to do so.

🙂 sometimes i think even if there was no bias to speak of, there would still be a few DO students out there desperately trying to secure their place on a soapbox. just let it go...

 

[Vizsla]

SGU & Ross send out composite type match lists. What I mean is, they are a sampling of matches and not entirely reflective of where everyone in any particular graduating class went. So they can make them look fairly impressive that way. You can't even determine from them how many people in the class did not match that year, and you know it's going to be a fair number. You also have to take a look at the locations most of these matches are.

they list them by year, so whether they are the graduating class or they are graduates who took a yr off, they still matched at these locations. And i did take a look at the locations and like i said, pretty impressive for what many of you believe to consider inferior degree granting institutions.

DO students almost always get preference over FMGs, and therefore, in general, FMG's land up having to take the leftovers for training sites.

you think just bc u have DO next to your name that youre gonna get immediate preference over an FMG no matter what your lors and board scores reflect??? i dont think it works that way

 

[Orthodoc40]

you think just bc u have DO next to your name that youre gonna get immediate preference over an FMG no matter what your lors and board scores reflect??? i dont think it works that way

Uh, yes, it does. I have asked several residency program directors about this. It is not just my opinion.

 

[VPDcurt]

Actually, this isn't completely true. DO's vs Non-Us schools taking the exam is quite close in percentiles although many more FMG's/IMG's are taking the exam than DO's school. The trend in the past few years is the gap between 1st time DO and FMG's students is getting slightly bigger, not much though.

There is an interesting discrepancy among the MD and DO candidates in terms of pass rates.

 

[VPDcurt]

Uh, yes, it does. I have asked several residency program directors about this. It is not just my opinion.

I think you need to speak to several more residency program directors about this. Board scores, clerkship grades, and LORs are generally the 3 most important criteria for obtaining a residency.

PS - I personally know a handful of residency directors in the northeast and they generally categorize DO/FMG together when looking at apps. Some programs won't even look at either of them.

Why don't you take the advice that you always throw at everyone else and just be proud of your degree? Just shut the hell up and work on your own issues and get yourself to where you need to be rather than causing problems all over the place.

PPS - Vizsla...I know it seems like I follow you around, but it's totally random - I swear.

 

[Vizsla]

I think you need to speak to several more residency program directors about this. Board scores, clerkship grades, and LORs are generally the 3 most important criteria for obtaining a residency.

PS - I personally know a handful of residency directors in the northeast and they generally categorize DO/FMG together when looking at apps. Some programs won't even look at either of them.

Why don't you take the advice that you always throw at everyone else and just be proud of your degree? Just shut the hell up and work on your own issues and get yourself to where you need to be rather than causing problems all over the place.

PPS - Vizsla...I know it seems like I follow you around, but it's totally random - I swear.

i love it

 

[mshheaddoc]

OB-TAY-BE. This thread is a little derailed and I don't want it to turn into a DO vs. Caribbean flame war. I was hoping to keep it open to resolve the issue with if you can actually get a MD/DO after getting one or the other, if someone has an answer to that please post, otherwise I'm going to close this wonderful thread. 🙂

 

[J1515]

Uh, yes, it does. I have asked several residency program directors about this. It is not just my opinion.

This varies by residency and area. Unfortunately there are a few residencies that won't look at DOs, there are a few residencies that won't look at FMGs, and there are some residencies that won't look at either.

 

[tcamdg]

I had nothing to do this afternoon, so I sent them a message using their "Contact Us" form telling them they had a typo. Maybe they'll respond with clarification or fix it.

They responded. Apparently, "In India, DO represents Diploma in Ophthalmology." [Emphasis in original.]

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I might give a $hISA if I knew what that is

Yeah, I think he does not know how to spell the word for '****' in German so he did a horrible job trying to fake it.

 

[GreenShirt]

I'm curious if anyone knows more about this...

I haven't applied to medical school yet, and I love the idea of going to a DO school...so that's not the concern. However, my boyfriend is from the Carribean, and we've talked about the possibility of actually moving down there in the future to live there for good. If I were to get a DO here in America, I would never think about changing it because I don't care to. But, I have heard that DO's are viewed differently in some other countries. If this is the case in his country of birth, then I might consider trying to find a way to get an MD. I'm not sure if it's the case, because I've never bothered to ask around, seeing as I haven't even applied to medical school yet nor do I see us moving anytime in the next decade...but, now that it was brought up here on the boards, I'm curious....anyone know of any islands in the carribean that feel that MD does not equal DO? (I don't want to disclose his island of birth, so I made the question general).

If you go about getting an MD the way it was mentioned here, does it really not make a difference if they already have that prejudice against DO's?

Thanks, and NO I'm not a troll...I just have a carribean boyfriend.

Edit: I just looked it up on the sticky and it says that the scope of practice is limited for the particular country I'm referring to. What does that mean? Anyone know?

I don't know if the Carribbean has DO schools. But even if they are manipulation-only, you would have an American DO degree which includes training beyond manipulation, so I would assume the consideration would be different. The best way to find out would be to contact the Embassy of the country you wish to practice and ask what the procedure for reciprocity is. It may require additional work. In Europe, for example, whether you're MD or DO, you need to complete the equivalent of their residency in order to practice.

 

[tcamdg]

I just looked it up on the sticky and it says that the scope of practice is limited for the particular country I'm referring to. What does that mean? Anyone know?

I don't know...but I'm guessing it means a DO couldn't practice the full scope of medicine, i.e., manipulation only or some such restriction.

 

[docbill]

They responded. Apparently, "In India, DO represents Diploma in Ophthalmology." [Emphasis in original.]

That is possibly illegal in Canada. Since D.O. degree is osteopathic physician. d.o. (degree in osteopathic manipulation). when d.o. where using osteopathic physicians, they were sent a threatening letter telling them to stop.

 

[tcamdg]

That is possibly illegal in Canada. Since D.O. degree is osteopathic physician. d.o. (degree in osteopathic manipulation). when d.o. where using osteopathic physicians, they were sent a threatening letter telling them to stop.

I'm not a lawyer, but I work with them, and if I've learned anything, it's that more gets done without lawyers. Besides, no need to make enemies when you don't have to...

How many India-trained ophthalmologists are there in North America, anyhow? I'll bet not many, at least not so many that they'll create any real confusion. Confusion on SDN doesn't count. 🙂

Lest the DO community begin to be viewed like the Church of Scientology...if the confusion ever does become an issue, I think it would be much better to start out with amicable, non-threatening letters.

 

[UCDavisdude]

Ok so I know that there is no reason to be ashamed of a DO degree. In fact knowing OMM is a great help. BUT for all practical purposes its good to have the MD as well just to put there for the sake of the name u know.

So since the name of the degree will not change, is there a way to get "MD, DO" legally after graduating from a DO school?

1: transfer from DO school to MD school...this seems very hard.
2: Are there any programs out there ? I read UHSA had one.
3: Does sitting in for USMLE and graduating from allopathic residency have any connection?
4: Any other way?

Thanks any input would be appreciated!

u kno wat, 2 yrs ago, when i was volunteering in the e.r at uc davis med center, i was looking at the composite roster of the e.r, and noticed that about 40% of the e.r docs were do's, and a hand ful or so had do,md. but i dunno how they obtained both

 

[tcamdg]

u kno wat, 2 yrs ago, when i was volunteering in the e.r at uc davis med center, i was looking at the composite roster of the e.r, and noticed that about 40% of the e.r docs were do's, and a hand ful or so had do,md. but i dunno how they obtained both

On the Guardian list of providers, some osteopathic physicians are listed as "DOMD" and others as "DO." I know that one of the "DOMD" physicians did an allopathic residency, but I'm not sure about those that are listed as "DO."

 

[docbill]

,,

 

[docbill]

Sorry to bring this thread back..

but I am already starting to feel the heat from posting my mind on here.. hmmm... what are the chances!!!

Gloves are off!!!

 

[pamolive]

That is wrong!!!! They are not the same. Don't fool yourself.

No ONE WILL EVER ASK YOU!!! WHAT IS AN MD!
Rarely do people ask physicians where did you go to school.. tell me tell me.

MD from Carib schools, you do rotations in the states, no one give a $hISA as long as you are not going for Radiology and Surgery at Ivy School.

To me it seems like the only time you'll feel any negativity about your DO degree is in your residency when you're working alongside those who have MD degrees. After that, in private practice it doesn't really matter. It's the same with a degree from the Carribean. My cousin went to one, and he said definitely do DO over being an FMG (unless you were born in India or something). I don't understand why you really care though. I'm really excited about getting a DO degree. Everyone I have talked to recently has nothing but good things to say about DO's. They have a really great reputation, and why wouldn't you want to learn OMM. It seems so interesting.

I second what everyone else is saying, if you really want an MD, then just take the extra time to get one. You have all your life to practice, what's the rush? Don't get a degree that you don't really want, you'll just end up miserable in the end.

 

[wook]

To me it seems like the only time you'll feel any negativity about your DO degree is in your residency when you're working alongside those who have MD degrees.

Not really. Nobody has cared thus far. The only people who care are pre-meds, and potentially certain specialties when applying for residency.

Once in residency, the only people who remark on it are other DOs who say, "Oh, you're a DO too?"



Wook

 

[Dr JPH]

To me it seems like the only time you'll feel any negativity about your DO degree is in your residency when you're working alongside those who have MD degrees.

I havent found that. My residency program rotates at hospitals where we work with MD residents from a number of allopathic schools. No one has ever looked at me any differently. Same when I was a student in Philadelphia and rotated with MD students from the 4 allopathic schools in the city. No one ever looked negatively upon my training. If they did then it was behind closed doors because I never heard it. Besides, we were too busy learning in a collective academic environment to care WHO went WHERE...not to mention the fact that I knew my stuff cold...as good as or better than they did.

The only time youre going to be treated differently is if you dont work up to par...or even if you are just there. You just have to push yourself to be better.

The fear of criticism because of your degree makes you word harder in spite of your degree. Probably not a necessary motivating factor but if it drives you to be the best then run with it.