An Open Mind

[gardengnome]

---

Members don't see this ad.

.

 

[Bacchus]

Your comparison between allopathic and osteopathic medicine is faulty. You should look at the two bodies of medicine as virtually the same. Osteopathic physicians do not practice "alternative" medicine. Allopathic physicians deal with patients. You need to do some more research because all I'm reading is propoganda.

 

[cbtk18]

Well good luck with all that.

I myself have been known to over analyze but that's a little rediculous. Good lord

 

[gardengnome]

.

 

[211519]

I agree with the above comments.

As to your overall, post:

I think you (as an umbrella term) can be certain about what to do in life. I also think it is really easy to be distracted by the drama, the negatives and the idiosyncrasies of any profession.

You may have a somewhat idealist perspective, that's fine. Just be aware that no job will be perfect, but you can always have the life you want if you work for it.

The system sucks. Med school, residency, life can be really, really hard. However, if you do find that you have a true passion for medicine, you should pursue it.

It would suck to be old and think back on life...and just remember the things you thought about doing.

Good luck! 🙂

 

[AdemTD]

Are students who are more interested in alternative medicine less cut-throat, kaniving bastards? Is it any more sane than an allopathic school?

As Bacchus has mentioned, the D.O. and M.D. degree are virtually the same. Second, I think your view of M.D. schools as being cut-throat is wrong. I've visited many of these schools, talked to students, and they all seem to get along just fine.

 

[beckhunter116]

Okay so WOW, I'm not even sure where to begin a response to everything you brought up.

First, the proverb you used I think is very accurate. While we all go through a similar process (shadowing, volunteering, clinical hours, ect) very little of this can truly prepare us for what being a doctor is really like. That's why there are so many threads about people being unhappy because until you are living something I think it is hard to truly relate. Of course, a lot of people have the mentality that things will be different for them and this can also add to the disillusionment with med school, residency, and life after.

How does this apply to you? Only you know what you are expecting. You touched on how you want to help people change their lives, but only a handful actually will. Most people will never change. Can you be okay with this or would it crush you? No one on here can answer these questions for you, so I'm not sure if you are looking for our own thoughts on how we will handle this or what?

DO/MD I think provide us with the thought process of handling patients, how we treat our patients as people come I think from the inside. As I've shadowed Doctors (both DO and MD) each treats there patients different and I recognize how I would have handled the situation if I were the patient. Of course time constraints will be something that has to be factored into every practice, but I think there are ways to be time efficient and still give your patients some individual attention.

I don't know how much time for education, and attention you would have as an EM physician though, that is something you would need to ask in the EM forum. Also, I would caution you that EM is getting more and more competitive, to enter medical school I would have to ask myself if I would be happy doing multiple specialties if I didn't get my #1.

 

[Exalya]

It is quite possible that medicine wouldn't be right for you. I know that personally, I am okay with the long hours, the over-working, and the part where the job cuts into my social life. I don't want children. All I want to do is contribute to medicine.

You, however, want something much different (not better or worse, different) than I. I have gotten the feeling from the forums that allopaths are less cruel than osteopaths--I don't know that this is the case. I do feel that some of the schools seem to focus on the "holistic" approach and the DO philosophy--some, but not all. I'm no expert either; I've just done a lot of research, and I'm in the process of applying.

From what you said, I would think that being a teacher might really be up your alley--professor or whatnot. Not a terrible living, better hours, time for a family... and it would certainly suit your thoughtful (based on this post) nature.

That's all I have. ^.^

 

[TexasTriathlete]

This is really weird. Go volunteer at a hospital or something, or do some shadowing to see how much you like medicine. It isn't for everybody, but there are a lot of different fields within medicine, with different lifestyles. There are plenty of docs who don't get burnt out. Even in the ER.

 

[binko]

"Kaniving" is actually spelled "conniving".

 

[Delphine]

So as you can see, post number one. I've lurked a bit over the last year as thoughts have lurked around in my head. I am starting applications here and feel like I just need to spew some of this out and maybe ask a few questions along the way.

Am I absolutely sure medicine is right for me? No. I am reminded of the old Chinese proverb: "To be uncertain is to be uncomfortable, but to be certain is to be ridiculous." But part of me still doesn't believe it.

Problem is, I don't know what else I would do. I enjoy teaching (have TA'd Chemistry) very much, science (Chemistry major), serving (all my life), health (-nut, and EMT) and the wilderness (just got back from Red River Gorge in KY). Is it too far off to dream to be a wilderness medicine physician?

I have always been under the belief that one should live their questions!!.( or pursue the uncertainties) This is from Rilke poem but it captures something that I have always felt. My advice would be to get behind this question and pursue it with all of the heart and the uncertainty that you have- keeping your eyes open - you will likely KNOW if you need to change course.
It has been my experience that committing fully to something is a way of committing to getting you closer to what it is you are looking for- and what it is that is correct for you. ( .02 which might be worth 0 to you)

Problem is, the more I read, it seems the more I see med students getting crushed under the system. Insane workloads, extreme exhaustion (and you would think physicians would know better), breakdowns, etc. I'm wondering, even if its not exactly what I want to do, that keeping my sanity might be preferable in another occupation.

But I'm just unsure if I can do this in medicine, really. I feel its just dreaming. The system will eat me alive. Undergrad is already gnawing at my skinny structure - it all just seems like hoops. I'll just be another burned out ER doc by the time I'm out.

These resonate with fears of my own as well- but I continue in hope that it is not all fatigue and overwork. That perhaps this is changing or that I might be able to help change it.
Also there is a chance that I might not find it that way or that that way wont bother me so much to provoke me to write horror stories about it which inspire fear in others.
Or I will write those horror stories with the knowledge that it is just some bizarre form of hazing- to scare away those who would be better off somewhere else.

My point is that you dont know till you try.

But again, I don't know what else I would do and all I can do is just keep hopeing. My grades are good, MCAT is good, and figure I might as well apply now - but I'm applying in hopes of deferment, take a year off (Africa?), and maybe stave off the burn marks.

Just FYI- deferment is not generally a possibility with medical school- actually many have a no deferral policy. Others only in extreme cases. If you want to take a year off then by all means- apply in the next cycle after you have had freedom for a bit.

The reason I posted this in the DO thread is I feel like you all (if there is anyone) would be the people to maybe see something, and not just write me off. Because that's another thing, I'm not sure I even want to be a part of the "Medical Community." I fear much of it has lost its way as I look around at my classmates and spend more and more time in the hospital/on the rig and listen to people in the field. Even though it would mean moving two and a half hours from home (I am very close to my Father), the DO school in my state is looking more and more enticing.

But are DO schools for real? Will I learn how to deal with patients as people? Are students who are more interested in alternative medicine less cut-throat, kaniving bastards? Is it any more sane than an allopathic school? Does the education/training system actually make sense instead of assuming the "well this is how we've always done it" policy?

I just want to make it out the other side with enough energy and the skills to actually make a difference in someone's life. Is that too much to ask?

I'm still uncertain.

1. You will run into a variety of different types of people pursuing medicine for different reasons no matter where you go- at allopathic school you will not learn OMM. None the less it is my belief that most who practice medicine enjoy helping others( hopefully not niave 🙂 ) this includes classmates.
2.You may already be applying to both MD and DO but if not I would do so- go on your interviews and research the schools and then see what fits best and where feels best when you interview. DO/MD are the same in many ways but their histories are different.
3.Also -this question about the rigor of medical training and how much it actually takes from a person might be better answered on a board where people are later in their training- maybe done with medical school and starting their residency.

& Thank you for sharing.

 

[spicedmanna]

Before you embark on any path ask the question: Does this path have a heart? If the answer is no, you will know it, and then you must choose another path. The trouble is nobody asks the question; and when a man finally realizes that he has taken a path without a heart, the path is ready to kill him. At that point very few men can stop to deliberate, and leave the path. A path without a heart is never enjoyable. You have to work hard even to take it. On the other hand, a path with heart is easy; it does not make you work at liking it.

"The Teachings of Don Juan" by Carlos Castaneda

Word.

 

[Rollo]

Medicine is a huge under-taking. If you aren't sure, then don't jump into it hoping that going through it will somehow make you want it.

There are plenty of non-medical, non-physician careers out there that are geared towards what you're looking for: wilderness, helping people, living comfortably without a six-figure salary.

I'm not sure how old you are (I'm guessing 20-22ish) but you have plenty of time to explore other careers and medicine itself before you decide if you want to pursue medicine or not. And trust me, 2, 3, 5 years is plenty of time to explore other options that you have.

I think the people who you ran across who have negative experiences and attitudes about medicine were probably idealistic, uncertain, and immature about their decision to enter medicine when they did enter medicine. Over the years, they discovered the reality of pursuing a career in medicine while their vision to see the greater effects their education would yield failed them. In other words, they lost sight of the big picture.

Bottom line: you have a choice. If you choose to enter medicine now, unsure and uncertain with a preemptive negative attitude about medicine, then you will probably become one of those people who chose to make their lives miserable simply because they failed to properly weigh the cons and the pros associated with medicine.

If you do not choose to enter medicine now, then think about exploring other careers. Get involved in those careers, while at the same time, continue exploring medicine on the side via shadowing, volunteering, etc.

You will figure out, through experience and time itself, eventually how badly you want to pursue medicine, despite all of its flaws.

 

[Krisss17]

It is quite possible that medicine wouldn't be right for you. I know that personally, I am okay with the long hours, the over-working, and the part where the job cuts into my social life. I don't want children. All I want to do is contribute to medicine.

You, however, want something much different (not better or worse, different) than I. I have gotten the feeling from the forums that allopaths are less cruel than osteopaths--I don't know that this is the case. I do feel that some of the schools seem to focus on the "holistic" approach and the DO philosophy--some, but not all. I'm no expert either; I've just done a lot of research, and I'm in the process of applying.

From what you said, I would think that being a teacher might really be up your alley--professor or whatnot. Not a terrible living, better hours, time for a family... and it would certainly suit your thoughtful (based on this post) nature.

That's all I have. ^.^

Huh? 😕 What is that supposed to mean?

 

[MSmentor018]

But are DO schools for real? Will I learn how to deal with patients as people?

I know you're trying to find/clear up info regarding DOs....which is a good thing. my advice is to keep reading SDN, it has a lot of info that may clear up many misconceptions. also look at the mentor forums for specific medical topics.

just curious, before reading SDN what was your thoughs on DO's or how we trained?

 

[gardengnome]

.

 

[tideleonheart]

Medicine has a LOT of governmental and insurance headaches. When I hear doctors complaining, it's about that stuff... and it isn't looking like it will get any better soon. Do you cope well with hoops? Because there are more and more hoops out there.

Before reading around on SDN and researching on the net? The typical uneducated view: DO schools were born out of necessity for people who couldn't get in to MD schools and in order to train primary care physicians. I realize this is absurd, but it's amazing how many of my pre-med (and non, and pre-health) classmates cringe when I mention applying to a DO school and respond with "Why? You'll be able to get into an MD school no problem."

It's pretty common for premeds (especially) to talk like that. Some stigma still stays when they become allopathic med students. Residency... seems like people really stop caring whether you're MD or DO. Attending... what's the difference?

You can argue all day about who has a better bedside manner, who is smarter, who the most holistic is... it all depends on each individual physician. And from all of my experience, there isn't a correlation to your initials.

I think a good comparison of the stigma might be with doing your 1st 2 years of college at a community college vs. a university. Are CCs worse or better than universities? Sometimes better, sometimes worse. My n=1 experience was that the CC I went to had a higher quality of teaching than my university. Before you apply? Your parents want you to go to the prestigous university. While you're there? University kids might think they're better... your parents might be disappointed at you not achieving your "potential." After you're done? Who cares if you did half at a CC and half at a univ.

If the initials matter to you and you need your ego to be fulfilled, then by all means do what makes you happiest. For me? I just wanted to be a doctor who knows how to take care of his patients. In my top 3 schools, I had 2 MD and 1 DO school. I got accepted to my top choice (DO), rejected from my 2nd choice (MD), and didn't complete the application to the other (I got accepted early from the DO school).