An Ophthalmologist Who Doesn't Do Surgery??

[SportsJunkie25]

Hello.

I'm interested in Pediatric Ophthalmology but I'm not that interested in surgery. Are there Ophth's who don't do surgery?

Fyi- before someone suggests optometry, I've already thought about that but I don't like refracting, fitting contact lenses, etc. Basically, I'm only interested in pediatric eye diseases (esp problems concerning the retina and eye cancer) and strabismus. Would Peds Ophth be the right choice?

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[WhatNEyeTem]

Hello.

I'm interested in Pediatric Ophthalmology but I'm not that interested in surgery. Are there Ophth's who don't do surgery?

Fyi- before someone suggests optometry, I've already thought about that but I don't like refracting, fitting contact lenses, etc. Basically, I'm only interested in pediatric eye diseases (esp problems concerning the retina and eye cancer) and strabismus. Would Peds Ophth be the right choice?

Yes, there are Ophthalmologists that don't do surgery. But for obvious reasons, they are not compensated as highly. Also, it will more difficult to find a good job.

If you want to do Peds Ophtho, you would still need to do at the minimum some strabismus surgery. Otherwise, why would someone refer a patient to you if you can't correct the patient's problem?

I guess another choice would be Neuroophthalmology -- but even they should be able to do some adult strabismus. Or you could consider medical retina... I'm not sure what the job market is for that field.

If you're interested in Pediatric eye tumors, you could consider doing an Ocular Oncology fellowship -- but to survive, you would likely need to be associated with an academic center. You would probably still need to do enucleations, brachytherapy, etc.

If you're not interested in surgery, you can always choose another field in Medicine that doesn't have any surgical procedures.

-J

 

[SportsJunkie25]

Hhhhmmm. If I choose a non-surgical career in medicine, I wouldn't be affiliated w/ the "eye" and that's what I'm interested in. Strabismus surgery? Eh...I guess I'll never know until I try it. I just don't think I'd enjoy doing surgery in such a small, confined area. But like they say, you never know until you try.

Here is the thread I posted in the optometry forum...I'm still confused on how to reach my goal, and my goal is better stated in the thread. I hope you can shed some light:

Title: O.D./Ph.D.??

Is anyone familiar with a Ph.D. in Vision Science? What would I do if I didn't have the O.D. part attached to my name? What would I do if I did have the O.D. part attached to my name? Basically, my goal is to work w/ pediatric vision: pediatric eye diseases, cancer (I'm really interested in retinoblastoma), retina, strabismus and all sorts of other cool stuff that affects the vision of kids, BUT I don't like refracting, VT or fitting contact lenses (which, pretty much takes me out of the running for an O.D. right?) Basically, I want to be presented w/ a bunch of symptoms so I can diagnose and come up w/ a treatment plan.

I'm posting this in the O.D. forum b/c I'm not that interested in the surgical aspect of ophthalmology. The ophth's said I didn't have to be a surgical ophth but I feel like that would be a waste of 4-5yrs of an ophth residency if I didn't do surgery when I was finished. So, I'm just checking other avenues to make the best decision...

Anyway, I just wanted to know if I had a Ph.D. in Vision Science, would I still be able to "look" at the research patients (i.e. using BIO, slit lamp, etc.) or would I be the person all the information is given to...and gathered by someone else? I'm confused on how to get to my goal: O.D.? O.D./Ph.D.? Ph.D.? or M.D.? 😕😕😕

EDIT: Equipment of interest: Along w/ the BIO and slit lamp...Topography, pachy, GDX, OCT, etc.

Yes, there are Ophthalmologists that don't do surgery. But for obvious reasons, they are not compensated as highly. Also, it will more difficult to find a good job.

If you want to do Peds Ophtho, you would still need to do at the minimum some strabismus surgery. Otherwise, why would someone refer a patient to you if you can't correct the patient's problem?

I guess another choice would be Neuroophthalmology -- but even they should be able to do some adult strabismus. Or you could consider medical retina... I'm not sure what the job market is for that field.

If you're interested in Pediatric eye tumors, you could consider doing an Ocular Oncology fellowship -- but to survive, you would likely need to be associated with an academic center. You would probably still need to do enucleations, brachytherapy, etc.

If you're not interested in surgery, you can always choose another field in Medicine that doesn't have any surgical procedures.

-J

 

[JMK2005]

You should first decide if you want to go to optometry school versus medical school. Once you get into medical school, you may end up not wanting anything to do with the eye. If you are a pre-med or pre-optom, your current perceptions will be very different after you finish school/residency/fellowship.

But you'll need to bite the bullet and pick OD vs MD first.

 

[OphthoApp]

Medical Retina doesn't do surgery.

 

[WhatNEyeTem]

Hhhhmmm. If I choose a non-surgical career in medicine, I wouldn't be affiliated w/ the "eye" and that's what I'm interested in. Strabismus surgery? Eh...I guess I'll never know until I try it. I just don't think I'd enjoy doing surgery in such a small, confined area. But like they say, you never know until you try.

Here is the thread I posted in the optometry forum...I'm still confused on how to reach my goal, and my goal is better stated in the thread. I hope you can shed some light:

Title: O.D./Ph.D.??

Is anyone familiar with a Ph.D. in Vision Science? What would I do if I didn't have the O.D. part attached to my name? What would I do if I did have the O.D. part attached to my name? Basically, my goal is to work w/ pediatric vision: pediatric eye diseases, cancer (I'm really interested in retinoblastoma), retina, strabismus and all sorts of other cool stuff that affects the vision of kids, BUT I don't like refracting, VT or fitting contact lenses (which, pretty much takes me out of the running for an O.D. right?) Basically, I want to be presented w/ a bunch of symptoms so I can diagnose and come up w/ a treatment plan.

I'm posting this in the O.D. forum b/c I'm not that interested in the surgical aspect of ophthalmology. The ophth's said I didn't have to be a surgical ophth but I feel like that would be a waste of 4-5yrs of an ophth residency if I didn't do surgery when I was finished. So, I'm just checking other avenues to make the best decision...

Anyway, I just wanted to know if I had a Ph.D. in Vision Science, would I still be able to "look" at the research patients (i.e. using BIO, slit lamp, etc.) or would I be the person all the information is given to...and gathered by someone else? I'm confused on how to get to my goal: O.D.? O.D./Ph.D.? Ph.D.? or M.D.? 😕😕😕

EDIT: Equipment of interest: Along w/ the BIO and slit lamp...Topography, pachy, GDX, OCT, etc.

To be honest, I would seriously reconsider being an Ophthalmologist if you really are adverse to performing surgery or doing procedures. I think the "ideal" position for you given your interests (ie. retinoblastoma, pediatric eye cancer, etc) would to be an Ocular Oncologist (eg. like Jerry Shields at Wills' or David Abramson at Sloan-Kettering). These folk diagnose, manage, and TREAT eye cancers (eg. Rb and melanoma). However, you would still need to do lasers, cryo, brachytherapy, enucleations, etc to be of any worth. If you truly want to be involved with eye cancers but don't want to do any procedures, you can always just become a PhD or COMT that is associated with these groups.

From your post, it seems like you don't have a realistic idea of what Ophthalmologists in general do. For example, why would you specifically care about the various diagnostic machines like GDx or corneal topography for the treatment of pediatric eye cancers?

Maybe you should spend some time with your local pediatric Ophthalmologist and gain some insight into what Ophthalmologists actually do. Strabismus surgery really is not that bad... and if you're worried about 'working in small spaces', you have to remember that you'll be wearing loupes or using a surgical microscope.

-J

 

[SportsJunkie25]

Hey! Thanks for the responses. Well, for one, I was in optometry school last year but I left b/c I didn't like it. Well, I didn't like what my future scope of practice was going to be. When I started opt school, I figured out I was more interested in the disease aspect of the eye vs refracting. This is how I know I don't like refracting, VT, fitting contact lenses, etc. So, I guess that answers the above question: OD vs MD. I was only considering the O.D. combined w/ a Ph.D. if it would give a "hands on" approach while being a researcher (<--if that's the route I need to take to get to my goal). I'm not too familiar w/ the daily aspect of a vision reseracher...

Why would I be interested in GDX and stuff like that? I guess I should have said I'm more interested in a practice that deals w/ ocular disease. As an optometrist, we wouldn't have diagnostic equipment like that; that's more of the Ophth's territory. Oh, and I'm aware the Ophth Tech's are normally the ones to use the diagnostic equipment and the Ophth's interpret the findings.

There are only 2 fellowship trained Peds Ophth's in my area and neither of them will let me shadow them. 😡 Blah, blah, blah about already having medical students following them. I'm sure if I knew someone there, they'd let me shadow for a couple of days but that's not the case. Therefore, I've come to SDN for anwers.

I'll look into the suggestions you guys have given me. Thank you.

 

[eyehope]

Hhhhmmm. If I choose a non-surgical career in medicine, I wouldn't be affiliated w/ the "eye" and that's what I'm interested in. Strabismus surgery? Eh...I guess I'll never know until I try it. I just don't think I'd enjoy doing surgery in such a small, confined area. But like they say, you never know until you try.

Here is the thread I posted in the optometry forum...I'm still confused on how to reach my goal, and my goal is better stated in the thread. I hope you can shed some light:

Title: O.D./Ph.D.??

Is anyone familiar with a Ph.D. in Vision Science? What would I do if I didn't have the O.D. part attached to my name? What would I do if I did have the O.D. part attached to my name? Basically, my goal is to work w/ pediatric vision: pediatric eye diseases, cancer (I'm really interested in retinoblastoma), retina, strabismus and all sorts of other cool stuff that affects the vision of kids, BUT I don't like refracting, VT or fitting contact lenses (which, pretty much takes me out of the running for an O.D. right?) Basically, I want to be presented w/ a bunch of symptoms so I can diagnose and come up w/ a treatment plan.

I'm posting this in the O.D. forum b/c I'm not that interested in the surgical aspect of ophthalmology. The ophth's said I didn't have to be a surgical ophth but I feel like that would be a waste of 4-5yrs of an ophth residency if I didn't do surgery when I was finished. So, I'm just checking other avenues to make the best decision...

Anyway, I just wanted to know if I had a Ph.D. in Vision Science, would I still be able to "look" at the research patients (i.e. using BIO, slit lamp, etc.) or would I be the person all the information is given to...and gathered by someone else? I'm confused on how to get to my goal: O.D.? O.D./Ph.D.? Ph.D.? or M.D.? 😕😕😕

EDIT: Equipment of interest: Along w/ the BIO and slit lamp...Topography, pachy, GDX, OCT, etc.

Most PHD are not trained clinically (that's why medical residency exists), so it would be difficult to justify examining patients IMO.

I think you have to decide what type of career you want before we can answer your question. Do you see yourself spending most of your time in clinical research? private practice? academics? How would you describe your typical day/week?

If you have no interest in surgery, I would not go into ophthalmology. Although there are some ophthalmologist who do not 'operate' (notably neuro, medical retina), the vast majority do operate until late in their careers. It can be a long three years of residency if you hate operating - not to mention med school and internship.

Pediatric ophthalmologist determine refractive error on a daily basis (retinoscope). If you hate prescribing glasses, you may want to reconsider. Some treatment for strabismus necessitate this skill.

If you hate vision therapy and you hate refraction and you hate surgery, you cannot diagnose or treat many conditions of strabismus. Perhaps pediatric ophthalmology is not the best choice for you. As someone mentioned, you could consider ocular oncology (no refracting, no vision therapy)- but you would still need to operate.

Most ophthalmologists are pretty laid-back. I think if you went to their offices and expressed some interest (rather than speaking to some office manager), they would be more than happy to help (allow you to shadow for a day).... I would be shocked if you have already spoken directly with them and they still refused... but stranger things have happened.

 

[SportsJunkie25]

...
I think you have to decide what type of career you want before we can answer your question. Do you see yourself spending most of your time in clinical research? private practice? academics? How would you describe your typical day/week?

....

Most ophthalmologists are pretty laid-back. I think if you went to their offices and expressed some interest (rather than speaking to some office manager), they would be more than happy to help (allow you to shadow for a day).... I would be shocked if you have already spoken directly with them and they still refused... but stranger things have happened.

Well, I'm still a little iffy but I think I'd like to do clinical research and have patients; I think a mix would be a good fit for me...I think. All of my "if's" would probably go away if I could shadow someone. And, you're correct...I haven't spoken with the Peds Ophth face-to-face. The OM was supposed to do that (twice) but they never call me back. I was thinking of just stopping by this week b/c who knows if they even give the Ophth the message.

You said Peds Ophth's have to refract...I thought the Ophth Tech's (or Orthoptist) did that?? I'm not saying I'm 100% against refracting, I just don't want to do it all day, everyday. But, the above poster may be right, I guess I need to keep researching this field. Hopefully the Peds Ophth will let me shadow her. Thanks for your insight...

 

[MDEYES]

Well, I'm still a little iffy but I think I'd like to do clinical research and have patients; I think a mix would be a good fit for me...I think. All of my "if's" would probably go away if I could shadow someone. And, you're correct...I haven't spoken with the Peds Ophth face-to-face. The OM was supposed to do that (twice) but they never call me back. I was thinking of just stopping by this week b/c who knows if they even give the Ophth the message.

You said Peds Ophth's have to refract...I thought the Ophth Tech's (or Orthoptist) did that?? I'm not saying I'm 100% against refracting, I just don't want to do it all day, everyday. But, the above poster may be right, I guess I need to keep researching this field. Hopefully the Peds Ophth will let me shadow her. Thanks for your insight...

I think the first question you need to answer is if you want to be a PHYSICIAN?, ped ophthalmology is a fellowship, I think it is too early for you to make such a decison.

Your question should be.. medical school vs something else?

 

[SportsJunkie25]

Answer: Yes, I want to be a physician. It's med school or bust for me; nothing else really interests me (<--even though I've read all of the "do something else" threads...I can't find anything else that remotely interests me. Time to take the plunge I guess...)

I think the first question you need to answer is if you want to be a PHYSICIAN?, ped ophthalmology is a fellowship, I think it is too early for you to make such a decison.

Your question should be.. medical school vs something else?

 

[MDEYES]

Answer: Yes, I want to be a physician. It's med school or bust for me; nothing else really interests me (<--even though I've read all of the "do something else" threads...I can't find anything else that remotely interests me. Time to take the plunge I guess...)

Then go ahead, apply, get admitted, and in like 7 years you can worry about your fellowship

good luck

 

[FutureCTDoc]

Have you thought about medical retina? You can just refer all of your surgery out. Most larger multi-ophthalmic specialty have a medical retinal physician.

 

[ophtho wannabe]

If you like strabismus and don't want to do surgery, maybe you should look into orthoptics. http://www.orthoptics.org/

 

[FatPigeon]

Don't worry, ophthalmologists aren't surgeons any more than dermatologists, neurologists or internists are.

Seriously, though, why's everyone want to call themselves "surgeons"? I tapped an ascitic abdomen today, can I call myself a surgeon? Pleeeease?

 

[MDEYES]

Don't worry, ophthalmologists aren't surgeons any more than dermatologists, neurologists or internists are.

Seriously, though, why's everyone want to call themselves "surgeons"? I tapped an ascitic abdomen today, can I call myself a surgeon? Pleeeease?

It seems that you never did an ophtho clerkship during med school and you have no idea what you are talking about.

What we do is called "microsurgery", just go to youtube and check some ophtho surgery videos (phacoemulsification, vitrectomies, etc) before you say that "tapping an ascitic abdomen" could be comparable to doing eye surgery. Our surgeries last anywhere between minutes to hours, and involve having excellent stereopsis and fine motor skills.

Clearly you are a medical student without much exposure to other surgical subspecialties.

Good luck in you surgical or whatever career you want to have in the future.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

I would like to add that during residency, you will need to do significant amount of surgeries to meet ACGME requirements. For non-surgeon types, this will be a painful experience.

To the original poster, why aren't you interested in surgery?

Some sub-specialties to consider: neuro-ophthalmology, medical retina, and eye pathology.