An unusual candidate

[WiscJD]

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So, I'm coming into this process from a slightly different place than your average applicant, and that is Law School. Just a quick history as to how I got here. In the fall of 2013 I started Law School at the University of Wisconsin, worked my *** off and made the Dean's list my first semester, then during second semester finals my ex fiance left me and then as soon as finals ended I started an internship I absolutely hated. I wound up quitting the internship and sort of spent the summer reevaluating my life I began thinking about how I actually wanted to spend it. Long story short I realized I was not going to be happy as an attorney so I started thinking about medicine, both my father and grandfather are physicians. So, the following fall rather than enrolling in law classes with my classmates I enrolled in Physics, Chemistry, and Psychology. I was also incredibly depressed at this time, a problem for me since my early teens, and I wound up dropping chemistry, getting a C in physics, and a D in psychology (I missed an exam), basically I didn't go to class and any time I spent trying to study was worthless. So, a swing and a miss there and I went back to Law School classes, but I wasn't at all interested in them. So, I decided once the semester was over I would move back to Milwaukee to do a pre med post bacc. I also spent the summer becoming an EMT. So, I've spent the last 3 semesters knocking out pre med course work and working in an ambulance full time (I think I'm currently just shy of 2800 total hours). In January I will be re enrolling in Law School classes as well Ochem 2. I plan on taking the MCAT in June and biochem over the summer. I will then spend next year finishing Law School and continuing to work as an EMT.

Here is some more information about myself
White
Male
Junior college GPA (3 semesters)-2.72
Undergraduate GPA -3.35
Post Bacc GPA 3.83
cumulative science GPA 3.33
cumulative science GPA with grade replacement 3.42
Cumulative GPA for all undergraduate course work 3.25
Law School GPA 3.0
2800 hours of EMT experience.
20 hours of shadowing

Here are my questions
Where do I stand as far as DO schools go?
Should I be prepared to go to the Caribbean?
Should I hire a consultant?
Would getting a B this semester destroy any chance I have?

 

[ctran019]

Here are my questions
Where do I stand as far as DO schools go?
Should I be prepared to go to the Caribbean?
Should I hire a consultant?
Would getting a B this semester destroy any chance I have?

1. You'll be fine for DO schools, just get a decent MCAT like 504+ and you'll get some love from at least the newer schools.
2. No one should go to the Caribbean, if they are willing to commit the time into fixing their application. (if possible)
3. Not necessary, a pre-med advisor will do just fine, but since you seem to be loaded knock yourself out. [I'm available for hire]
4. It's okay, but stop getting B's if you're really serious about this med school business.

 

[WiscJD]

So, I'm coming into this process from a slightly different place than your average applicant, and that is Law School. Just a quick history as to how I got here. In the fall of 2013 I started Law School at the University of Wisconsin, worked my *** off and made the Dean's list my first semester, then during second semester finals my ex fiance left me and then as soon as finals ended I started an internship I absolutely hated. I wound up quitting the internship and sort of spent the summer reevaluating my life I began thinking about how I actually wanted to spend it. Long story short I realized I was not going to be happy as an attorney so I started thinking about medicine, both my father and grandfather are physicians. So, the following fall rather than enrolling in law classes with my classmates I enrolled in Physics, Chemistry, and Psychology. I was also incredibly depressed at this time, a problem for me since my early teens, and I wound up dropping chemistry, getting a C in physics, and a D in psychology (I missed an exam), basically I didn't go to class and any time I spent trying to study was worthless. So, a swing and a miss there and I went back to Law School classes, but I wasn't at all interested in them. So, I decided once the semester was over I would move back to Milwaukee to do a pre med post bacc. I also spent the summer becoming an EMT. So, I've spent the last 3 semesters knocking out pre med course work and working in an ambulance full time (I think I'm currently just shy of 2800 total hours). In January I will be re enrolling in Law School classes as well Ochem 2. I plan on taking the MCAT in June and biochem over the summer. I will then spend next year finishing Law School and continuing to work as an EMT.

Here is some more information about myself
White
Male
Junior college GPA (3 semesters)-2.72
Undergraduate GPA -3.35
Post Bacc GPA 3.83
cumulative science GPA 3.33
cumulative science GPA with grade replacement (maybe) 3.42
Cumulative GPA for all undergraduate course work 3.25
Law School GPA 3.0
2800 hours of EMT experience.
20 hours of shadowing

Here are my questions
Where do I stand as far as DO schools go?
Should I be prepared to go to the Caribbean?
Should I hire a consultant?
Would getting a B this semester destroy any chance I have?

 

[OrdinaryDO]

You are going to leave right after law school to attend medical school...you did very poorly in your science classes, I know you have depression issues, but those aren't just going to go away when medical school starts, so that will be a heavy factor going against you. Your GPAs aren't stellar. In some cases, more does not mean better, this is probably one of those cases. You need to really be able to sell your decision to switch from Law to Medicine.

 

[WiscJD]

You are going to leave right after law school to attend medical school...you did very poorly in your science classes, I know you have depression issues, but those aren't just going to go away when medical school starts, so that will be a heavy factor going against you. Your GPAs aren't stellar. In some cases, more does not mean better, this is probably one of those cases. You need to really be able to sell your decision to switch from Law to Medicine.

I guess I'm not totally understanding you, what do you mean more does not mean better? Also, are you of the opinion that depression should disqualify you from medical school?

 

[Mad Jack]

You are going to leave right after law school to attend medical school...you did very poorly in your science classes, I know you have depression issues, but those aren't just going to go away when medical school starts, so that will be a heavy factor going against you. Your GPAs aren't stellar. In some cases, more does not mean better, this is probably one of those cases. You need to really be able to sell your decision to switch from Law to Medicine.

Very poorly? His postbacc sGPA was 3.84, hardly poor performance. Even his cGPA with replacement is respectable, 3.44 is hardly poor, it's more like middling performance overall with a strong upward trend. As to his depression, it sounds situational.

OP, you're good so long as you do well on the MCAT. You'll definitely get in somewhere.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Very poorly? His postbacc sGPA was 3.84, hardly poor performance. Even his cGPA with replacement is respectable, 3.44 is hardly poor, it's more like middling performance overall with a strong upward trend. As to his depression, it sounds situational.

OP, you're good so long as you do well on the MCAT. You'll definitely get in somewhere.

He has a 3.25 cGPA and a 3.42 sGPA with grade replacement and with a 3.0 law school GPA. Sure his post bacc is good, but that is as expected from anyone who does a post-bacc. He is under different circumstances. My opinion still stands.

Edit: I'm not saying OP has no chance, but he/she didn't necessarily make it easy on their self. There definitely needs to be improvement, completion of law school with above a 3.0 GPA and a good MCAT score with a viable reason for switching professions so easily. People say it all time time, if you made this mistake once who says you won't make that same mistake going into medical school? I'd like to think ADCOMs don't make risky bets on applicants. I'm not trying to sound harsh, but it's just my opinion and take it with a grain of salt since all I have to go off of is my real world experience and the information I have gathered on here over the years.

Edit 2: for OP, no I am not saying depression should disqualify anyone from anything. Everyone goes through it at times. I was leaning more towards the events that happened in your life and for how long you at they effected you.

 

[Goro]

Just go into this eyes open. Med school is a furnace, and I've seen it break even healthy students. The #1 reason my school loses students to dismissal, withdrawal or LOA is to mental health issues.

Also, are you of the opinion that depression should disqualify you from medical school?

 

[WiscJD]

He has a 3.25 cGPA and a 3.42 sGPA with grade replacement and with a 3.0 law school GPA. Sure his post bacc is good, but that is as expected from anyone who does a post-bacc. He is under different circumstances. My opinion still stands.

Edit: I'm not saying OP has no chance, but he/she didn't necessarily make it easy on their self. There definitely needs to be improvement, completion of law school with above a 3.0 GPA and a good MCAT score with a viable reason for switching professions so easily. People say it all time time, if you made this mistake once who says you won't make that same mistake going into medical school? I'd like to think ADCOMs don't make risky bets on applicants. I'm not trying to sound harsh, but it's just my opinion and take it with a grain of salt since all I have to go off of is my real world experience and the information I have gathered on here over the years.

Edit 2: for OP, no I am not saying depression should disqualify anyone from anything. Everyone goes through it at times. I was leaning more towards the events that happened in your life and for how long you at they effected you.

Law School is graded on a straight curve, so its really not low, the 3.0 puts me in about the 55th percentile, not great but I'm not worried about it. I also don't expect any school will be incredibly interested in my Law School performance .

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Law School is graded on a straight curve, so its really not low, the 3.0 puts me in about the 55th percentile, not great but I'm not worried about it. I also don't expect any school will be incredibly interested in my Law School performance .

I may be wrong, but I would expect every school to be interested in your law school performance. It shows who you are and how you performed. A 3.0 isn't bad, but anything less would be considered unfavorable by any means. I'm curious as to why you think schools would disregard your law school performance?

 

[WiscJD]

I guess I assumed that because I was an average student at a highly competitive top tier law school they would just look at it, view it as that, and move on. I don't think people on admission committees look down at middle of the road medical students and think, that they should have never been let in. Plus, it's professional school, every student already had to prove themselves just be there. It's also totally unrelated to medicine and science, law school is effectively about learning a deductive reasoning skill set and applying it, grades don't really demonstrate much about either intelligence or work ethic, just your ability to conform to that way of thinking. I know plenty of students who were intelligent, as proven by the LSAT score that got them into UW, killed themselves working, but just weren't really able to succeed. Not to mention the final is typically the only grade you receive in a class. Law school grades tell you very little accept how good at Law School someone was and I don't know why an admission committee would have any interest in that.

 

[WiscJD]

1. You'll be fine for DO schools, just get a decent MCAT like 504+ and you'll get some love from at least the newer schools.
2. No one should go to the Caribbean, if they are willing to commit the time into fixing their application. (if possible)
3. Not necessary, a pre-med advisor will do just fine, but since you seem to be loaded knock yourself out. [I'm available for hire]
4. It's okay, but stop getting B's if you're really serious about this med school business.

Do you have any suggestions about schools I should be targeting? Or should I just apply to them all?

 

[DrBowtie]

I guess I assumed that because I was an average student at a highly competitive top tier law school they would just look at it, view it as that, and move on. I don't think people on admission committees look down at middle of the road medical students and think, that they should have never been let in. Plus, it's professional school, every student already had to prove themselves just be there. It's also totally unrelated to medicine and science, law school is effectively about learning a deductive reasoning skill set and applying it, grades don't really demonstrate much about either intelligence or work ethic, just your ability to conform to that way of thinking. I know plenty of students who were intelligent, as proven by the LSAT score that got them into UW, killed themselves working, but just weren't really able to succeed. Not to mention the final is typically the only grade you receive in a class. Law school grades tell you very little accept how good at Law School someone was and I don't know why an admission committee would have any interest in that.

Come on bro. UW isn't T14.

 

[summergirl]

I guess I assumed that because I was an average student at a highly competitive top tier law school they would just look at it, view it as that, and move on. I don't think people on admission committees look down at middle of the road medical students and think, that they should have never been let in. Plus, it's professional school, every student already had to prove themselves just be there. It's also totally unrelated to medicine and science, law school is effectively about learning a deductive reasoning skill set and applying it, grades don't really demonstrate much about either intelligence or work ethic, just your ability to conform to that way of thinking. I know plenty of students who were intelligent, as proven by the LSAT score that got them into UW, killed themselves working, but just weren't really able to succeed. Not to mention the final is typically the only grade you receive in a class. Law school grades tell you very little accept how good at Law School someone was and I don't know why an admission committee would have any interest in that.

Lol that's not how medical school admission works. The medical school adcoms believe that it doesn't matter what you choose to study before you apply to medicine, but you should be good at what you study. No one is arguing that a low GPA in whichever program means that person is unintelligent or won't be successful, because that can very often be untrue. HOWEVER, in terms of medical school admissions, a low GPA matters, a lot, regardless of what program you got that GPA from.

 

[WiscJD]

Top Tier is top 50 not T14, UW is currently 33rd

 

[WiscJD]

1

 

[WiscJD]

Lol that's not how medical school admission works. The medical school adcoms believe that it doesn't matter what you choose to study before you apply to medicine, but you should be good at what you study. No one is arguing that a low GPA in whichever program means that person is unintelligent or won't be successful, because that can very often be untrue. HOWEVER, in terms of medical school admissions, a low GPA matters, a lot, regardless of what program you got that GPA from.

I guess I don't see them judging your performance in a doctoral program the same way they would judge your performance in undergraduate classes.

 

[DrBowtie]

Top Tier is top 50 not T14, UW is currently 33rd

Point being you can't trump up highly competitive top tier law school to a bunch of people who know about competitive professional schools. The class profile is similar to run of the mill med schools.

 

[WiscJD]

Point being you can't trump up highly competitive top tier law school to a bunch of people who know about competitive professional schools. The class profile is similar to run of the mill med schools.

I'm not trumping it up, that's exactly what it's like. There are very weak law schools too and UW is not one of those. My point was this, you don't look down on someone who was average at a run of the mill Med School for being average there because of how competitive they are, just like I don't think an admission comittee will have problems with me being average at UW Law. But at the end of the day I'm not here to defend my credentials, I'm merely interested in getting more information about osteopathic medical schools.

 

[summergirl]

So the PostBacc GPA you listed in the OP, is that the science classes you took while you were taking a break from Law School? If that's the case, did you calculate that into your cGPA/sGPA?

 

[WiscJD]

So the PostBacc GPA you listed in the OP, is that the science classes you took while you were taking a break from Law School? If that's the case, did you calculate that into your cGPA/sGPA?

Yes, should those stay separate? The cumulative GPA I have listed does not take grade replacement into account though.

 

[summergirl]

Yes, should those stay separate? The cumulative GPA I have listed does not take grade replacement into account though.

I just checked my own AACOMAS application (the DO application system), and my PostBacc GPA was listed separately from my degree GPA. you might have a shot since your PostBacc GPA is really high. However, since you went back to Law School, and you kept on getting your 3.0 GPA, so that might be concerning. Med schools do not like downward trends in GPA. I don't know how much it would affect you in your case because as you mentioned, JD is a special doctoral level degree. Please apply with a humble attitude and I hope you all the best.

 

[WiscJD]

I just checked my own AACOMAS application (the DO application system), and my PostBacc GPA was listed separately from my degree GPA. you might have a shot since your PostBacc GPA is really high. However, since you went back to Law School, and you kept on getting your 3.0 GPA, so that might be concerning. Med schools do not like downward trends in GPA. I don't know how much it would affect you in your case because as you mentioned, JD is a special doctoral level degree. Please apply with a humble attitude and I hope you all the best.

I actually don't start Law School again until January but I'll also be taking Ochem 2 and preparing for the MCAT, so we'll see how it all goes. Thank you, and I wish you luck as well.

 

[summergirl]

I actually don't start Law School again until January but I'll also be taking Ochem 2 and preparing for the MCAT, so we'll see how it all goes. Thank you, and I wish you luck as well.

Oh I see. I reread your OP and it seems like I've missed that part. Okay then I'd recommend that you try your hardest in the remaining classes of your Law degree, so that you'll have a nice upward trend. I personally think it's very ambitious to try to take science classes and do law school at the same time, while taking the MCAT in June. The MCAT can make or break your application so I'd tread very carefully. If you can get a high MCAT, then it's hello white coat.

 

[ctran019]

Do you have any suggestions about schools I should be targeting? Or should I just apply to them all?

Can you really afford to be picky? Apply to all the non-state biased ones.

 

[Ulgarmoose]

I'm a bit confused as to why you're intending to go back to law school classes if you're more interested in medical school and said multiple times that you don't want to be an attorney and are not interested in the classes themselves. Seems like a lot of unnecessary work.

 

[perestroika]

You're fine. Get at least a 495 (preferably 500+) on the MCAT and apply broadly.

Your story is interesting and schools will love it. DO schools particularly will pick you over a traditional student with similar stats any day.

But I agree with Goro 100%. Whatever you have to do and however long it takes, make sure you are as mentally prepared as possible before you start med school. It beats you down in a way you can't even imagine. You want your mental baseline to be as high as possible when you begin. I would focus on that.

Last thing: undertaking orgo with MCAT prep is a lot in and of itself. Studying for the MCAT alone is a lot. Doing all that with law school classes is insanely intense. Just make sure you can continue to do well in all of those. You're fine so far, and you're right about how ADCOMs will view your law school performance, but they can be very unforgiving with prereq grades. And saying "I was also in law school at the time" is not a good enough excuse for them. If you have to sacrifice this law school term for premed work, do it.

 

[perestroika]

One other thing: be able to eloquently state in the personal statement/interview why you suddenly decided to switch from law to med and you're golden.

 

[Espressso]

Just my two cents.. but you should most definitely take your time with this. If you plan on finishing up law school (I would), then don't apply for at least another cycle, probably two cycles. And I wouldn't even start MCAT prep until you're core sciences are taken care of. You need a science base, and a strong one at that, before hitting mcat books. I would probably wait on the mcat too.

Like you said, law school requires deductive reasoning skills. But, med school requires that and then some. But to kill the mcat - which will you need to do - you need to have a great science foundation. Take your time, stay humble, and definitely remember to craft your personal statement around the career switch.

 

[NecrotizingFasciitis]

My thoughts:

With you re-enroll in law classes, I'm not convinced you truly want to be a physician. Instead of wasting time and money on that, I think you should do volunteering, shadow physicians, maybe do some research, and take a couple upper-level science classes.

With regards to the MCAT... 495 is by no means a score that will get you into any school. Unless you are consistently scoring a relatively balanced 500+, do not take the MCAT. Also... shoot for 505+.

I think your story is actually really interesting, but use the rest of your time to make your application stand out over other applicants. Going back to law school will do nothing for you; it makes you look "wishy-washy."

The only situation that might make me change my comment on that last part is if you are like one semester away from graduating law school. In which case, this could benefit you.

Just IMO. Good luck.