Anesthesia as a Career for Physicians is Over!

[NicholasPavona]

Another one falls.....

West Virginia removes physician supervision rule for CRNAs - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

On July 7, certified registered nurse anesthetists in West Virginia will be allowed to administer anesthesia in cooperation with — rather than under the supervision of — a physician. The new CRNA practice agreement defines “cooperation” as a CRNA and a physician, dentist or podiatrist working...

www.beckershospitalreview.com

The following states permit CRNAs to practice independently:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington D.C., Washington State, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

Just about 20 more to go.....as predicted.

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[aneftp]

Another one falls.....

West Virginia removes physician supervision rule for CRNAs - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

On July 7, certified registered nurse anesthetists in West Virginia will be allowed to administer anesthesia in cooperation with — rather than under the supervision of — a physician. The new CRNA practice agreement defines “cooperation” as a CRNA and a physician, dentist or podiatrist working...

www.beckershospitalreview.com

The following states permit CRNAs to practice independently:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington D.C., Washington State, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

Just about 20 more to go.....as predicted.

Good. Now gotta tell the crna to actually wanna work a full schedule

The dynamics of crnas is that they wanna work when they feel like working.

It’s more than just independence. It’s their lack of coordination of wanting to work a real full time schedule

There simply isn’t enough crnas to do independent practice.

 

[NicholasPavona]

The dynamics of crnas is that they wanna work when they feel like working.

Respect! Anesthesiologists are the dummies putting in an epidural at 0200 while a fat OB nurse antagonizes you the entire time.

 

[Dr. Rude]

State law is a minimum standard. Employers of CRNAs, entities that credential them and give them privileges, companies that insure them them all have input and some measure of control.

In the above states, how much truly independent CRNA practices exists in the above states outside of BFE regions?

 

[Volatile]

I’ve worked in many of those states always either solo or in a medical direction model. Just because the law is in place doesn’t mean it’s implemented. The CRNA’s I was supervising had zero interest in being on their own. With baby boomer generation entering hospitals and the explosions of ASC’s there’s simply too much work to go around, it’ll be just fine.

 

[caligas]

Well they make like $300k for 36 hours so I’ll just be a CRNA if it comes to it

 

[Gator7]

I guess hospitals will have to start closing at 3pm.

 

[NicholasPavona]

I guess hospitals will have to start closing at 3pm.

Sounds good to me.

 

[FatKid]

Sounds good to me.

Me too 😎

 

[Ashers]

Me too 😎

Me, three!

I enjoy my schedule with no call and no really late nights. 5pm is late to me now, and I do that when asked nicely. I get much fewer migraines.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Another one falls.....

West Virginia removes physician supervision rule for CRNAs - Becker's Hospital Review | Healthcare News & Analysis

On July 7, certified registered nurse anesthetists in West Virginia will be allowed to administer anesthesia in cooperation with — rather than under the supervision of — a physician. The new CRNA practice agreement defines “cooperation” as a CRNA and a physician, dentist or podiatrist working...

www.beckershospitalreview.com

The following states permit CRNAs to practice independently:

Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Arkansas, California, Colorado, Delaware, Hawaii, Idaho, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Montana, Nebraska, New Hampshire, New Mexico, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Oregon, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Vermont, Washington D.C., Washington State, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

Just about 20 more to go.....as predicted.

I am not worried the slightest about CRNA independence. If hospitals choose to take on the liability of independent CRNAs then that's fine. They can take the big lawsuit when a preventable injury/death occurs and the minimal amount they saved by not employing the ACT will be wiped away with one lawsuit or bad publicity. No matter what happens, an anesthesiologist will ALWAYS be more sought after than a CRNA. That is a cold hard fact. Yes, the scope creep is annoying, but it's certainly not the end of the world. Anesthesiologists will always be the most desired.

 

[CubsDynasty]

You should be worried about CRNA independence. They practice independently in Arizona and in Phoenix there are 10 or so hospitals that are CRNA only and they’ve been doing it for years. Phoenix is a strange job market since it’s a major metro with no real residency, so physician shortage is a serious issue throughout. But there’s been no major lawsuits or bad publicity. It’s almost become the status quo at non tertiary hospital or subspecialties. Surprisingly the only thing helping us is that some surgeons still only accept MDs. All three major systems have these set ups now and the hospital administrators love the cost saving.

 

[Gator7]

I just don’t see it.

A) Knowledge/skill gap is just too extreme even amongst the “good” ones

B) there’s not enough. And definitely not enough with willingness to cover nights/weekends.

C) who steps in when they are impregnated by the ortho surgeon and retire?

D) anesthesia is getting competitive. Meaning smarter and more driven individuals in the field. And less gen surg failures, IMGs, red flag resumes, turds of anesthesiologists, etc. sorry but we all know they exist.

 

[AKMD_1984]

Respect! Anesthesiologists are the dummies putting in an epidural at 0200 while a fat OB nurse antagonizes you the entire time.

Lmao

This dynamic never gets old

Probably never will

 

[PpfSuxTube]

Respect! Anesthesiologists are the dummies putting in an epidural at 0200 while a fat OB nurse antagonizes you the entire time.

This is beautiful. Like poetry

 

[CubsDynasty]

I just don’t see it.

A) Knowledge/skill gap is just too extreme even amongst the “good” ones

B) there’s not enough. And definitely not enough with willingness to cover nights/weekends.

C) who steps in when they are impregnated by the ortho surgeon and retire?

D) anesthesia is getting competitive. Meaning smarter and more driven individuals in the field. And less gen surg failures, IMGs, red flag resumes, turds of anesthesiologists, etc. sorry but we all know they exist.

I agree with all your points. I think OP saying “it’s over” is hyperbole. But… compensation is going to drop significantly in the next decade as more hospitals use independent CRNAs and fewer MDs are needed and the scale shifts towards oversupply. We’re simply following the same path as ER.

 

[teacher2md]

I agree with all your points. I think OP saying “it’s over” is hyperbole. But… compensation is going to drop significantly in the next decade as more hospitals use independent CRNAs and fewer MDs are needed and the scale shifts towards oversupply. We’re simply following the same path as ER.

I disagree. There is a major difference between ER and anesthesia— $$

Anesthesiologists and CRNAs are necessary to keep the ORs churning and the money printing. ERs don’t generate any meaningful revenue. Hospitals have realized this and allowed them to die on the vine by cutting costs; allowing major ER delays and understaffing (I think this is actually an intentional strategy); and swapping physicians for midlevels en-masse.

On the other hand, there is a major shortage of anesthesia “providers”. Contrary to the above; hospitals are paying more and more to retain said providers.

I think we’ll see more of what we’re already seeing— increased stipends (and therefore salaries) for both physicians/CRNAs. I think more CRNA independent practice is in the works (it’s already here in most rural areas); and likewise there will be more physicians sitting their own cases in places that have been heavily ACT model. I think the cost differential will continue to narrow (maybe $300/hr vs 350/hr for W2) but will never completely equalize.

It’s a great time to be both an anesthesiologist or a CRNA… for now.

I imagine that in 5-10 years there will be some type of government intervention that will blow everything up. For example, if the Hospital association passes legislation that bans hospitals from subsidizing anesthesia costs; this will effectively reset the market and knock everyone’s salary down.

 

[gator2886]

Independent practice....till 3pm

 

[aneftp]

Independent practice....till 3pm

Or independent practice 3 days a week and 1.5x pay per hours after every SCHEDULED shift and or 40 hours a week. So each shift can potentially expose an employer to paying a crna the same or more than a daytime Md doc.

 

[unc04]

magine that in 5-10 years there will be some type of government intervention that will blow everything up. For example, if the Hospital association passes legislation that bans hospitals from subsidizing anesthesia costs; this will effectively reset the market and knock everyone’s salary down.

Then you won’t have anyone show up to work.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

Then you won’t have anyone show up to work.

Seriously, people in this field have no knowledge of the economics of this thing.

Price controls = shortages. Every single time.

Do you people honestly believe that the workforce just grins and bears it if pay is cut by 25% or whatever number?

ER doctors are leaving medicine as soon as they can and no longer matching full programs. Rad onc is now a bottom tier specialty.

The idea that some doc over 55 is gonna take a 25% pay cut and still work a full call schedule is ludicrous as it is unlikely to happen (the pay cut, not the fall out)

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Seriously, people in this field have no knowledge of the economics of this thing.

Price controls = shortages. Every single time.

Do you people honestly believe that the workforce just grins and bears it if pay is cut by 25% or whatever number?

ER doctors are leaving medicine as soon as they can and no longer matching full programs. Rad onc is now a bottom tier specialty.

The idea that some doc over 55 is gonna take a 25% pay cut and still work a full call schedule is ludicrous as it is unlikely to happen (the pay cut, not the fall out)

amen. If hospitals cut prices drastically good luck recruiting. The old timers who already have enough to retire will just cash out. This brings supply down and demand up. No matter what there is no way this problem is going to fix itself in the next 20 years. Not until the boomers die off. That’s when there is a real chance that hospitals have to start taking back control of pricing. Until this time I foresee a mass shortage of anesthesia that isn’t going away for quite a while

 

[aneftp]

Seriously, people in this field have no knowledge of the economics of this thing.

Price controls = shortages. Every single time.

Do you people honestly believe that the workforce just grins and bears it if pay is cut by 25% or whatever number?

ER doctors are leaving medicine as soon as they can and no longer matching full programs. Rad onc is now a bottom tier specialty.

The idea that some doc over 55 is gonna take a 25% pay cut and still work a full call schedule is ludicrous as it is unlikely to happen (the pay cut, not the fall out)

There is so much work these days. Most crnas won’t work 5 days a week. And most docs don’t want a full call schedule either.

It is all about supply and demand. And case load. Hospital case loads go up. With less supply (anesthesia) equals great demand for labor. Equals increase pay.

Only if hospitals decease cases (highly unlikely) can they decease demand for anesthesia

 

[Maverikk]

I just don’t see it.

A) Knowledge/skill gap is just too extreme even amongst the “good” ones

B) there’s not enough. And definitely not enough with willingness to cover nights/weekends.

C) who steps in when they are impregnated by the ortho surgeon and retire?

D) anesthesia is getting competitive. Meaning smarter and more driven individuals in the field. And less gen surg failures, IMGs, red flag resumes, turds of anesthesiologists, etc. sorry but we all know they exist.

A. The people in charge don’t care. You have to realize anesthesia was a small budget line item, this was when COL was lower and reimbursements were higher before NSA. No one working on spreadsheets cares about a ‘knowledge gap’ anymore than some who wants their drive paved and someone says they can do the job but at a lower cost. It’ll take outcomes like the ones in Modesto where CRNA only showed the difference. As far as admin cares they need a body to fulfill task X and ‘provider’ Y costs Z

B. True. This is just market economics, CRNAs are going at 200-300/hr in desperate markets. They’re nurses with a lot less debt, age and more availability. They’ll cover nights and weekends for the right price, anesthesiologist will probably be the first on call, they’ll sleep and work the next day.

C. No one, they’ll do botox and maternal IV infusions

D. When? WV just fell, no legislation for AAs, ASA is still meowing

As said above it’s a great time to be anesthesiologist, it won't last forever, make hay while the sun is shining,

 

[gator2886]

I have been hearing "The CRNAs are going to take over" my entire career (going on 20 years.) I have never been more sure this NOT going to happen. Right now, it's a numbers game. Remember, even if CRNAs gained full autonomy, you still need a "5th wheel" outside of the OR doing blocks, pre-ops, managing PACU, consulting Pre admit, etc. So if that is not an MD then its another CRNA. I read somewhere that before COVID more than 50% of Anesthesiologists were over the age of 55, so they are slowing down. The increased salaries for both CRNAs and Anesthesiologists FURTHER the shortage because many can work less than full time and have a fantastic lifestyle. When you have a 1099 CRNA that can work one 12 hr shift per week and make $100k/year, many will do that, especially those near retirement, or those with families that need them at home. The forced employment of Anesthesiologist has also forced this trend. 1099 is "normal" now.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

I read somewhere that before COVID more than 50% of Anesthesiologists were over the age of 55, so they are slowing down.

I read statistics like this all the time but it makes no sense and nobody has ever been able to explain it.

Were we training a lot more Anesthesiologists in the 1990s and a bunch of programs shut down? In my experience with other fields we are only seeing an increase as new programs open up so I would think younger docs outnumber the older docs.

Are 30-40 year old docs somehow retiring in large numbers?

I mean for all these fields to have an overwhelming number of older docs then that means something must actually be happening to reduce the number of younger docs in the system…

 

[gator2886]

And another thing that adds to the shortage is the fact that the CRNA programs all require a year of "research" to be a DNP. If you figure the career span of an average CRNA is 25 years, that reduces the total population of CRNAs by 4%, at least temporarily because those people are not in practice.

 

[Prehealth1011]

If you guys (anesthesiologists) didn’t take call or do weekends, would the salary on W2 be the same as what a CRNA makes?

 

[Dr. Rude]

If you guys (anesthesiologists) didn’t take call or do weekends, would the salary on W2 be the same as what a CRNA makes?

Our hourly rate would still be higher, but the ratio of MD hourly rate/CRNA hourly rate has been declining my whole career.

 

[aneftp]

Our hourly rate would still be higher, but the ratio of MD hourly rate/CRNA hourly rate has been declining my whole career.

W2 Crna hourly rate is their true hourly pay for their true hours they work plus/minus benefits

W2 Docs traditionally have been “available “ (or forced) to be available to work way more than their true hourly pay. Often this has been in exchange for being paid for early days out or post beeper day off.

This is where the gap as closed for crna and docs.

No w2 crna will ever agree to be beeper entire 64 hr weekend and be available without much more compensation than a day off Monday. That’s where the system get a much more expensive especially if they have to be in house w2 as well the entire weekend.

These are dynamics the aana knows about and really do not want to tell hospital admin how expensive crnas can get if they go true independent practice. The crna mentality is nursing shift model , pay as you work

That’s extremely expensive just like any locums work I do is expensive.

 

[RedandBlack7]

W2 Crna hourly rate is their true hourly pay for their true hours they work plus/minus benefits

W2 Docs traditionally have been “available “ (or forced) to be available to work way more than their true hourly pay. Often this has been in exchange for being paid for early days out or post beeper day off.

This is where the gap as closed for crna and docs.

No w2 crna will ever agree to be beeper entire 64 hr weekend and be available without much more compensation than a day off Monday. That’s where the system get a much more expensive especially if they have to be in house w2 as well the entire weekend.

These are dynamics the aana knows about and really do not want to tell hospital admin how expensive crnas can get if they go true independent practice. The crna mentality is nursing shift model , pay as you work

That’s extremely expensive just like any locums work I do is expensive.

My old practice requires the doctors to take beeper call from home q4 and these hours are not counted in any way and none of it is paid since it is a w2 position.

The CRNAs even if they are salaried are required to do 40 hours....they would take late call but if they were dismissed early those hours would still count.

Doctors definitely need to get smarter and start requiring more compensation for their time even if it is from home.

 

[aneftp]

My old practice requires the doctors to take beeper call from home q4 and these hours are not counted in any way and none of it is paid since it is a w2 position.

The CRNAs even if they are salaried are required to do 40 hours....they would take late call but if they were dismissed early those hours would still count.

Doctors definitely need to get smarter and start requiring more compensation for their time even if it is from home.

This is why as locums doc I get up to guarantee up to $400/hr on beeper. Flat rate for entire 12 hrs on beeper. It’s stupid to be beeper for $1200/12 hrs plus hourly rate. I’d rather just work 10-12 hrs and go home and rest without being on pins and needles whether I get a call to come back to the hospital

Our time is money. It’s sounds absurd to ask for this but some places will give it to you. You just need to ask for it. I just won’t take call than.

They can go find another doc to take beeper. I don’t need the money. I like the money. Won’t lie. But I don’t need the money at $1200/12 hr beeper. It’s not worth it to me. When I’m home. Im
Home. I have no intention of getting dressed and coming back in at $100/hr on beeper. Plus hourly rate. My motivation to get dressed and go back into the hospital is higher at $400/hr on beeper regardless if I work or not.

 

[PainInTheAnes]

I read statistics like this all the time but it makes no sense and nobody has ever been able to explain it.

Were we training a lot more Anesthesiologists in the 1990s and a bunch of programs shut down? In my experience with other fields we are only seeing an increase as new programs open up so I would think younger docs outnumber the older docs.

Are 30-40 year old docs somehow retiring in large numbers?

I mean for all these fields to have an overwhelming number of older docs then that means something must actually be happening to reduce the number of younger docs in the system…

The explanation is that in the late 90s/early 2000s there was a lack of matching in anesthesiology. No one wanted to do it, bottom tier specialty because of low pay during the 1990-2000 years that took awhile to change the rumors that started

Like how family medicine doesn’t fill their slots completely, anesthesia was like that. Back then far more difficult to get IMGs into the country to match and also fewer med schools to get students from.

So there’s a shortfall of anesthesiologist from 45-55 because of this shortfall in matching. Remember you match your specialty about age 27. So those people matching from 1997-2007 would now be 45-55 years old. Thats where the glut of docs over 55 comes from and why you see so many fewer docs from 45-55 in our specialty.

There is also a lot of pressure that’s keeping young docs from staying in medicine. Medical system dynamics and demographic changes and financial goals are responsible for it.

Perfect storm for those willing to stay in the game

 

[aneftp]

The explanation is that in the late 90s/early 2000s there was a lack of matching in anesthesiology. No one wanted to do it, bottom tier specialty because of low pay during the 1990-2000 years that took awhile to change the rumors that started

Like how family medicine doesn’t fill their slots completely, anesthesia was like that. Back then far more difficult to get IMGs into the country to match and also fewer med schools to get students from.

So there’s a shortfall of anesthesiologist from 45-55 because of this shortfall in matching. Remember you match your specialty about age 27. So those people matching from 1997-2007 would now be 45-55 years old. Thats where the glut of docs over 55 comes from and why you see so many fewer docs from 45-55 in our specialty.

There is also a lot of pressure that’s keeping young docs from staying in medicine. Medical system dynamics and demographic changes and financial goals are responsible for it.

Perfect storm for those willing to stay in the game

It’s sorta of true

The pay was still very good for anesthesia in the mid to late 1990s.

Except the original partners didn’t want to share it with the newer grads

For instance my sister was paid $120k/140/160/180k full partnership track working 60 hr a week with only 4 weeks paid

And the partners made 550k (which was good pay in the 1990s)

This was very similar in many parts of the country

So the anesthesia pay wasn’t low for those in existing practices. They just didn’t want to share the wealth with newer people.

Looking back on it.

I don’t know what was worse.

Private MD anesthesiologist partners ripping off new anesthesiologists (1995-2000) era

Vs corporations ripping ofd new anesthesiologist 2013-2020.

The money was always there for anesthesia

 

[AppTrail]

This is why as locums doc I get up to guarantee up to $400/hr on beeper. Flat rate for entire 12 hrs on beeper. It’s stupid to be beeper for $1200/12 hrs plus hourly rate. I’d rather just work 10-12 hrs and go home and rest without being on pins and needles whether I get a call to come back to the hospital

Our time is money. It’s sounds absurd to ask for this but some places will give it to you. You just need to ask for it. I just won’t take call than.

They can go find another doc to take beeper. I don’t need the money. I like the money. Won’t lie. But I don’t need the money at $1200/12 hr beeper. It’s not worth it to me. When I’m home. Im
Home. I have no intention of getting dressed and coming back in at $100/hr on beeper. Plus hourly rate. My motivation to get dressed and go back into the hospital is higher at $400/hr on beeper regardless if I work or not.

400/hr just to hold a beeper? Insane

 

[aneftp]

400/hr just to hold a beeper? Insane

It’s flat rate. I get paid regardless if I work or not. Obviously I prefer not to work and sleep at home and not called in. That’s maximum work smart not hard next level type of pay.

So my beeper rate is my hourly rate. One and the same.

Or else I’m not gonna to take call at all.
But I know exactly how much I’m gonna to make. Or else I told them I’d just do 7a-5pm daytime and go home and not worry about doing cases at night.

This is how you run up the bill.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

It’s flat rate. I get paid regardless if I work or not. Obviously I prefer not to work and sleep at home and not called in. That’s maximum work smart not hard next level type of pay.

So my beeper rate is my hourly rate. One and the same.

Or else I’m not gonna to take call at all.
But I know exactly how much I’m gonna to make. Or else I told them I’d just do 7a-5pm daytime and go home and not worry about doing cases at night.

This is how you run up the bill.

Do you negotiate this at every place you work 1099 at?

 

[minwoo]

Do you negotiate this 24 hour flat rate through a locums agency or directly with the hospital? I currently get $1500 for holding the pager for 24 hours Sat or Sun plus $450/hr for callback. I read your post and couldn't agree more.. I rather just give up the pager stipend+call back and just come in 7-5p on the weekend, get paid for those hours and be done.

 

[aneftp]

Do you negotiate this 24 hour flat rate through a locums agency or directly with the hospital? I currently get $1500 for holding the page for 24 hours Sat or Sun plus $450/hr for callback. I read your post and couldn't agree more.. I rather just give up the pager stipend+call back and just come in 7-5p on the weekend, get paid for those hours and be done.

I get $9600 flat for beeper if I’m 24 hrs Regardless if I do one case or 10 cases.

Some places will throw in a $2000 weekend stipend also. That’s why I said some weekends are worth massive 30k

My friend is making 40k over the 4 day Memorial Day weekend beeper. All supervision also. I did the same last year. But I’m on vacation so didn’t want it to. Can’t work all the weekends.

Not worth my time to do $1500 beeper plus hours worked. Maybe for daytime beeper coverage since I’m most likely gonna to do some cases during the day. That’s why $450hr doesn’t tempt me as much as guarantees flat rates. If a place is easy enough I’d do $300/hr flat fee beeper knowing I still get $7200. I don’t do any calls at any new places I visit till I get a feel for how things flow.

 

[CubsDynasty]

And another thing that adds to the shortage is the fact that the CRNA programs all require a year of "research" to be a DNP. If you figure the career span of an average CRNA is 25 years, that reduces the total population of CRNAs by 4%, at least temporarily because those people are not in practice.

Every DNP I know has done it while working full time.

 

[A Deep Breath]

That 10s partner salary translates to about $1.1M today.

 

[Dr. Anonymouss]

Every DNP I know has done it while working full time.

What a joke of a doctorate.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

What a joke of a doctorate.

Bro if I could double my income by working online off hours I’d do it too

Edit: thought we were just talking about NPs in general didn’t realize we were talking about CRNAs

 

[aneftp]

That 10s partner salary translates to about $1.1M today.

The issue with partner money of yesteryear was that the partners were not earning all that money themselves. There was a lot of cost shifting. Taking money from junior associate partnership tracks doc. And or taking money from crna

Now crnas command too much money, it’s hard to profit off them. And less or no new junior partnership track docs who want to join

Thus no way partners can make that type of money working those little hours (45-50 hrs a week) for 1 million in the early 2000 (20 plus years ago) with 8 weeks off. The money came off the backs of others

So partners in lucrative practices , most them sold out either to mednax between 2008-2013 or usap 2014-2018. 1 million in 2004 money is closer to 1.7 million in 2025 money.

The cedar Sinai ob anesthesiologists easily made 1 million in 2004 cause they took the most lucrative private patients back than as well and gave the junior docs the crappy payor mix. This is no secret.

The insurance companies were not very smart. From very lucrative ob anesthesia practices. The super savvy anesthesia leaders almost tricked the insurers to reimbursing ridiculous for ob. Like I posted my wife ob payment ( not the super bill but the ob anesthesia payment for $4200). The reason is high volume high percentage of private insurance. They tricked insurers to reimbursing them a god load of money for ob anesthesia. But in return the anesthesia company said they would take less for general and mac anesthesia cases.

Think about high ob volume places in the south and Midwest. The vast majority of of these practices were ob. And not or cases. It was ingenious. Take less for Or reimbursement. (Insurance companies didn’t understand this ) thinking these anesthesia private companies made money in the Or but the ob volume was the money generator.

 

[gator2886]

Every DNP I know has done it while working full time.

Perhaps they are working as an RN, but I am referring to CRNA school itself, so by design they are not CRNAs while they are in CRNA school and are not working as CRNAs

 

[CopaceticOne]

Perhaps they are working as an RN, but I am referring to CRNA school itself, so by design they are not CRNAs while they are in CRNA school and are not working as CRNAs

No, they are “working” as ‘s’RNas

 

[CubsDynasty]

Perhaps they are working as an RN, but I am referring to CRNA school itself, so by design they are not CRNAs while they are in CRNA school and are not working as CRNAs

I stand corrected. As of 2025 CRNAs must do doctoral level training in school but that’s just during a 36 month program. Not sure what it was before.