Anesthesiologist leaving the U.S.??

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Once Obama succeeds THEN we will have equal health care. I look forward to it!

But we won't. Those in power (ie. the people making policy) will always be exempt from what is "in the public interest." Is that equality? Do you think the pres or those in congress will give up that "executive medicine"?
 
Once Obama succeeds THEN we will have equal health care. I look forward to it!


actually i think that once the plan goes into effect then the exact opposite will happen. most of the doctors will switch over to cash only and then only the really rich will be able to avoid long waits. The incentive for doctors to work hard now is that they can earn more money. once they start working for free they'll stop working and focus more on investments... good thing many OR's have wireless internet, we'll be able to do day time trading while working a poor government job.

have you even read the plan that you support? do you support not giving life prolonging procedures to elderly patients? or not spending money to improve the quality of life of elderly patients? Many ICU's will turn down most elderly patients and simply send them home to die with a script for painkillers... The biggest healthcare spending happens in the ICU's with in the patients last few weeks of life, Maobama plans to stop that wasteful spending. Congratulations you support a plan that will prevent your grandparents and parents from getting proper health care.

This health care plan is not going to pass.. Maobama is rushing way too much and leaving many wholes in the plan. Plus I am starting to see many anti-government health care commercials on tv. Most american's are very happy with their health insurance.. did you know that under Maobama's plan if your insurance company changes your policy or you change your policy you forfeit the private plan and must purchase the government plan? you really should read the proposed health care plan.... This will be the worst thing to ever happen to the US, worse than Vietnam war, bay of pigs, and the Iraq war combined and multiplied by 10. I just wish the doctors that were taking care of Maobama's family had the balls to tell him that since he loves nurses so much next time they'll make the treatment decisions, and will pick which antibiotic to use and what does to give.

Anyone who supports this plan is grossly uninformed, or is supporting Maobama blindly just because it's the cool thing to do.
 
The biggest healthcare spending happens in the ICU's with in the patients last few weeks of life, Maobama plans to stop that wasteful spending. Congratulations you support a plan that will prevent your grandparents and parents from getting proper health care.

Have you ever spent time in an ICU? Do you REALLY think that the care given to those in the last few weeks of life is "proper health care"?? I will never understand the horrors that family members put their parents and grandparents through in the last few weeks of life so they can be trached and PEG'd and send to die in a nursing facility somewhere. It IS wasteful spending, and it should be rationed, but I freely admit I don't know how to do it.
 
Have you ever spent time in an ICU? Do you REALLY think that the care given to those in the last few weeks of life is "proper health care"?? I will never understand the horrors that family members put their parents and grandparents through in the last few weeks of life so they can be trached and PEG'd and send to die in a nursing facility somewhere. It IS wasteful spending, and it should be rationed, but I freely admit I don't know how to do it.

yep i have.. doing an icu rotation right now.. do also agree with not giving those people dialysis? or not keeping them on the vent for a week or two while they fight off their pneumonia? Sure a lot of people get desperate when their loved one is about to die and want everything done. but a lot of the things that won't be available for elderly patients are things that are temporary and once the patient fights off an infection they won't need them. Do you not think your parent or grandparents don't deserve a chance at recovery and to live more? or do you think that living 70 or 80 years is good enough and they should just be sent home with hospice care after 70?
 
or do you think that living 70 or 80 years is good enough and they should just be sent home with hospice care after 70?

yes
After having worked in a ICU for a little while you will realize that patient over 75 and ICU = death (given that they are in the icu for a serious condition eg. not a weak admition)
 
yes
After having worked in a ICU for a little while you will realize that patient over 75 and ICU = death (given that they are in the icu for a serious condition eg. not a weak admition)

This is nonsense. Both my parents are nearing this age and they are both very healthy. I am sure they are much healthier than most of the much younger patients that we all take care of every day (and who make it out of the ICU all the time). They also both have living wills stating that they don't want futile treatment. I am ADAMANTLY opposed to much of the end of life care that we give in the ICU but to make such sweeping generalizations as above is crazy.
 
This is nonsense. Both my parents are nearing this age and they are both very healthy. I am sure they are much healthier than most of the much younger patients that we all take care of every day (and who make it out of the ICU all the time). They also both have living wills stating that they don't want futile treatment. I am ADAMANTLY opposed to much of the end of life care that we give in the ICU but to make such sweeping generalizations as above is crazy.

If for whatever reason the are in septic shock in an icu what are their chances of survival? (in a couple of years since they are only near 70)

If they're in great shape good for them but i have yet to see an overweight patient over 70 y/o survive the icu.
 
Why don't you start a thread pro Obama healthcare reform??? Explain to us how our profession - ANESTHESIA will be better??? If you have an interest in anesthesia anyway. Troll.

Calling me a troll because i'm not a republican? :laugh:

politicians suck in general, but anesthesia is a field of medicine, not a branch of government.

chill out dude. life is more than money. last i checked, its not worth much if you bury it with you after you die. 👎 funny thing is that i probably owe more in loans than you do ....anyways unless Obama starts telling you how to run your vents, then shhhhhhh. :scared:

P.S. tell me why you liked bush without referring to taxes or money.
 
anesthesia is a field of medicine, not a branch of government.

unless Obama starts telling you how to run your vents, then shhhhhhh. :scared:

If Barry, Nancy, and Harry have their way, medicine will soon be a branch of government.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Barry seemed to think tonsillectomies should be replaced with allergy treatments more often. Apparently, he does think he knows more about medicine than those trained in it. Maybe he thinks he can determine vent settings too. After all, slower vent rates may save the hospital some money on electricity. Then, the savings can be passed on to his proletariat, oops, I mean constituents.
 
If Barry, Nancy, and Harry have their way, medicine will soon be a branch of government.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Barry seemed to think tonsillectomies should be replaced with allergy treatments more often. Apparently, he does think he knows more about medicine than those trained in it. Maybe he thinks he can determine vent settings too. After all, slower vent rates may save the hospital some money on electricity. Then, the savings can be passed on to his proletariat, oops, I mean constituents.

yeah politicians are idiots. one made us invade a sovereign country over non existent WMDs. :laugh:
 
Calling me a troll because i'm not a republican? :laugh:

politicians suck in general, but anesthesia is a field of medicine, not a branch of government.

chill out dude. life is more than money. last i checked, its not worth much if you bury it with you after you die. 👎 funny thing is that i probably owe more in loans than you do ....anyways unless Obama starts telling you how to run your vents, then shhhhhhh. :scared:

P.S. tell me why you liked bush without referring to taxes or money.

DO4lifer - you got it wrong. " life is more than money" - true, but you need them. With his policy Obama encourages underachievers. I am not of them - so of course I totally disagree with his politics. I believe that I know the financial part of anesthesia and pain management. With the new legislation we'll see most of the private practices losing significant capital. What means a lower standard of life for the one in the field of anesthesia. Od course - you don't know yet because you are in medical school. But if you eventually will choose this field, it will impact your life. Now - regarding this crap - I work for the patients and bla, bla , bla - I will use it for interviews at VA and community hospitals (and even there careful - there are not stupid either...).
regarding the loan - I suppose that Obama (if the law will pass...) will forget the debt. Otherwise he will have a generation of physicians cursing him...
Bush was way more decent compared with Obama - though he was not physician friendly either. We started a decline a while ago and the only one to be blamed for that are the physicians.
Regarding my financial situation - I have only one advise - diversify.
Medicine is a part of my bussines. Physicians are smart but because of the extended time spend in the school and beeing used with guidelines and rules is difficult for them to take initiative and move in other fields. Medicine is not a significant source of revenue considering the investement. Again GLTY comrade!
 
uhh i'm a resident....and i'm smart enough to invest now (a little of my paycheck at least) while the market is at the bottom (diversified of course). sure i got a bunch of loans, but my life goes way beyond the hospital. being a doctor is really a great profession. its a ton of work, but i love it. however, i love my out of hospital life too. as long as that isn't taken away, i'm happy. 👍

we live in an awesome country. life is way too easy that we take it for granted. remember that. 🙂

DO4lifer - you got it wrong. " life is more than money" - true, but you need them. With his policy Obama encourages underachievers. I am not of them - so of course I totally disagree with his politics. I believe that I know the financial part of anesthesia and pain management. With the new legislation we'll see most of the private practices losing significant capital. What means a lower standard of life for the one in the field of anesthesia. Od course - you don't know yet because you are in medical school. But if you eventually will choose this field, it will impact your life. Now - regarding this crap - I work for the patients and bla, bla , bla - I will use it for interviews at VA and community hospitals (and even there careful - there are not stupid either...).
regarding the loan - I suppose that Obama (if the law will pass...) will forget the debt. Otherwise he will have a generation of physicians cursing him...
Bush was way more decent compared with Obama - though he was not physician friendly either. We started a decline a while ago and the only one to be blamed for that are the physicians.
Regarding my financial situation - I have only one advise - diversify.
Medicine is a part of my bussines. Physicians are smart but because of the extended time spend in the school and beeing used with guidelines and rules is difficult for them to take initiative and move in other fields. Medicine is not a significant source of revenue considering the investement. Again GLTY comrade!
 
This is what makes me mad.

http://www.wjinc.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=12136

http://www.antonnews.com/threevilla...has-work-to-do-to-control-property-taxes.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...936A25756C0A9639C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

We have teachers and educational administrators that make 6 figures.
Now tell me, did they go to school for 12+ years?
Do they work 60+ hours a week?
Do they make life or death decisions day in and day out?
Can some of these bozos even tell you what they do for a living?
(What the H*ll is a [FONT=ARIAL, SANS SERIF][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Director of Special Services .[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]anyway?)

Some of these people don't even do anything other than draw a paycheck?
But that's the way it is. Government doesn't reward productivity.
It rewards politics. If it will get me votes I will do it, right or wrong.
Our government was founded to protect the rights of all people.
Over the years, it has transformed into a tool to control people and take their rights.

I guess what i am saying is that government is basically evil.
Why can't you liberals see that?
You believe that the government should not tell a woman that she can't kill her baby, but it is alright to tell me not to own a gun.
You say slavery is evil, yet you want me to be a virtual slave to your health care system.
You are all for freedoms and choices, yet you will not let me chose to keep my private health insurance. You want single payer.

If you want nationalized health care move to a European socialist country.
There are no good places left for those of us who love freedom to go.
Don't screw up our country, please.

.
.AHEM, BACK ON POINT
Why even go to medical school?

Here is what I am going to start telling everybody that tells me they want to become a doctor.

"Become a teacher.
You can make more, work less, and actually enjoy college. (Why take Physical Chemistry or Quantum Mechanics, when you can take Mathematics for Children or Developing Language Skills.)"
 
hey, hopefully the SOB will be gone in a few years. how much can he f it up in a few years.... (hopeful)
 
uhhh, these are outliers. teachers in my local school district are getting laid off. i wish they had money to keep the class sizes smaller, keep the arts/sports, and provide quality education.

i'm confused, you say you want less government control, but then you want them to reward productivity...you either want them or you don't.

the fact that a bozo that drops out of college to start up a multi billion dollar company is what makes this country amazing. do not hate on the fact they didn't go to school for many years like us. 👎

i agree the government is evil...its been like that for decades, but what are you gonna do? its a 2 party system, you get one side of idiots or the other.


This is what makes me mad.

http://www.wjinc.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=1&ArticleID=12136

http://www.antonnews.com/threevilla...has-work-to-do-to-control-property-taxes.html

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpa...936A25756C0A9639C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2

We have teachers and educational administrators that make 6 figures.
Now tell me, did they go to school for 12+ years?
Do they work 60+ hours a week?
Do they make life or death decisions day in and day out?
Can some of these bozos even tell you what they do for a living?
(What the H*ll is a [FONT=ARIAL, SANS SERIF][FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Director of Special Services .[FONT=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]anyway?)

Some of these people don't even do anything other than draw a paycheck?
But that's the way it is. Government doesn't reward productivity.
It rewards politics. If it will get me votes I will do it, right or wrong.
Our government was founded to protect the rights of all people.
Over the years, it has transformed into a tool to control people and take their rights.

I guess what i am saying is that government is basically evil.
Why can't you liberals see that?
You believe that the government should not tell a woman that she can't kill her baby, but it is alright to tell me not to own a gun.
You say slavery is evil, yet you want me to be a virtual slave to your health care system.
You are all for freedoms and choices, yet you will not let me chose to keep my private health insurance. You want single payer.

If you want nationalized health care move to a European socialist country.
There are no good places left for those of us who love freedom to go.
Don't screw up our country, please.

.
.AHEM, BACK ON POINT
Why even go to medical school?

Here is what I am going to start telling everybody that tells me they want to become a doctor.

"Become a teacher.
You can make more, work less, and actually enjoy college. (Why take Physical Chemistry or Quantum Mechanics, when you can take Mathematics for Children or Developing Language Skills.)"
 
We have teachers and educational administrators that make 6 figures.
Now tell me, did they go to school for 12+ years?
Do they work 60+ hours a week?

I guess what i am saying is that government is basically evil.
Why can't you liberals see that?
You believe that the government should not tell a woman that she can't kill her baby, but it is alright to tell me not to own a gun.
You say slavery is evil, yet you want me to be a virtual slave to your health care system.
You are all for freedoms and choices, yet you will not let me chose to keep my private health insurance. You want single payer.

If you want nationalized health care move to a European socialist country.
There are no good places left for those of us who love freedom to go.
Don't screw up our country, please.

Wow... There are many teachers who work 50+ hours/wk who went to school for 8+ years who make <50k/year. Sure they don't deal with "life or death" situations, but I think you overstate the difference in length of training a LOT. I assure you physicians are very well compensated relative to other professions requiring very long training.

Also, equating a situation where a physician might only make $250K vs. $400K to slavery is beyond stupid.

You say government is basically "evil"... Have you every been to a country without a government? I doubt it, because there is no way in hell you'd want to go there. You sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

There is a pretty good reason why there are no good places to live that are purely capitalist or anarchist. By design, pure capitalism doesn't create good places to live; it creates wealth in a very small percentage of the population and a large population of angry poor people. Anarchists are unrealistic idealists and so-called "Utopian societies" never last more than a few years. Socialism is a component of every western democracy because there are certain services (like transportation, law enforcement, fire departments & medicine) that are generally unprofitable in the long run and necessary for a functioning society. Capitalists don't like running unprofitable enterprises.

By the way, most of the best places to live, by nearly every metric, are democratic socialist countries.
 
The level of propaganda in most of your minds is amazing. A single payer system is not the same as Soviet Russia. My God...

For Canada you will need to complete another year of residency to get licensed, as anesthesiology is a 5 year residency up here. Salary is 300-400k, depending on your practice environment. Malpractice is a few thousand a year. Billing is fee-for-service, so if you sit around on your lazy ass then you won't make any money.
 
For Canada you will need to complete another year of residency to get licensed, as anesthesiology is a 5 year residency up here.


It depends on the Provincial authority. In Ontario, this is now the norm: http://www.cpso.on.ca/policies/policies/default.aspx?id=2352


Pathway 3 - Canadian or US Medical Degree with US Postgraduate Training and Certification



Policy Category: Registration
Approved by Council: September 2008
College Contact: Registration Inquiries


In an effort to improve access and reduce barriers for qualified physicians, the College's Council approved groundbreaking policy in September 2008 that establishes four new registration pathways. The four approved pathways come into effect on December 1, 2008. These new registration requirements vary depending on the source of the applicant's medical degree, where the applicant is currently practising and where the applicant received postgraduate training.
The new pathways will be applicable to the following groups of physicians:
Preamble

The College's registration regulation1 sets out the requirements which must be met in order for an applicant to be issued a certificate of registration2.
If an applicant does not meet the requirements set out in the regulation it may still be possible for an applicant to qualify pursuant to one of the exemption policies.
All applicants must be able to demonstrate that their past and present conduct indicates that they are mentally competent to practise medicine; will practise with decency, integrity and honesty and in accordance with the law; have sufficient knowledge, skill and judgment to engage in the kind of practice authorized by the certificate and can communicate effectively; and will display an appropriately professional attitude.
In addition to the registration regulation and policies, all applicants will also be subject to other CPSO policies and regulations which apply to current registrants. In particular, the Changing Scope of Practice and Re-entering Practice policies, and the regulation pertaining to the use of specialist titles may have relevance for new applicants. All applicants will also be subject to the College's expectations with respect to continuing professional development.
All applicants may choose to proceed through any other applicable registration policy, including the CPSO Registration through Practice Assessment. In such instances, the provisions in this policy will not apply.
All registrants qualified under this policy will undergo an assessment after completing a minimum of one year of practice in Ontario. Assessments ensure that physicians are practising competently and safely. All physicians in Ontario undergo assessments and it is part of the College's vision of quality professionals that all physicians will be assessed every 10 years.



Pathway 3: Canadian or US Medical Degree with US Postgraduate Training and Certification

The Registration Committee may direct the Registrar to issue a certificate of registration to an applicant who has a medical degree from a medical school in the US which is accredited by the Liaison Committee of Medical Education or a medical degree from a medical school in Canada accredited by the Council on Accreditation of Canadian Medical Schools, if the applicant has:

  1. successfully completed a residency program accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education;
  2. been certified by a US Specialty Board;
  3. successfully completed the US Medical Licensing Examination or successfully completed an acceptable qualifying examination; and
  4. an independent or full license or certificate of registration to practise without restrictions in the US or Canada.
The following conditions will be placed on the certificate of registration:

  1. The physician must practice with a mentor and/or supervisor until he or she has successfully completed an assessment.
  2. The physician must undergo an assessment after completing a minimum of one year of practice in Ontario. The certificate of registration automatically expires 18 months from the date of issuance, but may be renewed by the Registration Committee, with or without additional or other terms, conditions and limitations.
How Barriers are Reduced

This policy adds another pathway to licensure for applicants who are not certified by the RCPSC or CFPC. Under this policy, eligible candidates now have a route to independent practice certificate of registration, subject to an initial one-year period of practice under supervision (or a mentor) and successful completion of an assessment after the first year of practice. Unsuccessful completion of an assessment would result in expiry of the certificate of registration unless it is renewed by the Registration Committee, with or without additional or other terms, conditions and limitations.
Unlike the College's policy for ACGME-trained specialists,3 this pathway does not require that the ACGME residency be comparable in content and duration to a Canadian training program in the same discipline.
Eligible applicants also have the option of completing the Registration through Practice Assessment (RPA) program before being approved to practise medicine in Ontario, instead of applying under this new policy.
Endnotes

1O.Reg 865/93 under the Medicine Act, 1991.
2To the extent that the College relies on accreditation or registration by external bodies, the College undertakes to continue to work with these stakeholders to ensure rigour in their attention to quality and safety.
3The policy for ACGME-trained specialists was rescinded by CPSO Council in November 2008 because applicants now have access to licensure under Pathway 3 and Pathway 4.
 
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uhhh, these are outliers. teachers in my local school district are getting laid off. i wish they had money to keep the class sizes smaller, keep the arts/sports, and provide quality education.

Yes they are outliers, but don't you think the money should be spent to buy supplies or hire more teachers? In my school district several teachers were non-renewed back in June; however, just this last month 3 supervisors were hired at salaries of $87,000 each. Two recently graduated college; one hasn't even finished college.

i'm confused, you say you want less government control, but then you want them to reward productivity...you either want them or you don't.

Nothing to be confused about. Of course, I want less government, but if I cannot get less government what is wrong with wanting more accountability?

the fact that a bozo that drops out of college to start up a multi billion dollar company is what makes this country amazing. do not hate on the fact they didn't go to school for many years like us. 👎

He is probably not a bozo. He is probably quite slick, and a hard worker, and he probably took a big chance to get where he is. I don't care how much money people make if they truly earn it. What I do have a problem with is when people use the government to gain their riches, don't you?

i agree the government is evil...its been like that for decades, but what are you gonna do? its a 2 party system, you get one side of idiots or the other.

Truer words have never been spoken. Both parties are carrying us straight to H#LL. The Democratic party is like the expressway. The Republican party is like the scenic route, sure we get to stop and smell the roses every once in a while, but the destination is the same.
 
Wow... There are many teachers who work 50+ hours/wk who went to school for 8+ years who make <50k/year. Sure they don't deal with "life or death" situations, but I think you overstate the difference in length of training a LOT. I assure you physicians are very well compensated relative to other professions requiring very long training.

http://www.alsde.edu/html/sections/documents.asp?section=68&sort=5&footer=sections
Here is a pay scale for Alabama. They always tell us Alabama is last in education, teacher pay, fitness, hygiene, infrastructure, intelligence, blah, blah, blah... Anyway a teacher with a doctoral degree and less than 3 years teaching makes $48,000. Let us see $48000 divided by 187 days equals $256 a day. Sure it's not great, but it is pretty good. And I suppose teachers in other states make WAY more (at least that what the Alabama Education Association tells me). But I didn't really intend this to be about teachers, my original intention was to make my post about administrators' exorbitant salaries and how the money should be spent on teachers.

Also, equating a situation where a physician might only make $250K vs. $400K to slavery is beyond stupid.

When a single payer system comes out it will be virtual slavery. At least now some of us can refuse to take medicare and medicaid. That will not be the case when all the private insurance is gone. We will work for whatever they pay us or we just won't work, those will be our only choices. And once they have the monopoly on health care our incomes will fall like a chunk of lead. Why? Because the US is broke, that's why. $400K to $250K, now that's being optimistic. At least Canada and France have money to pay their physicians with, ours spends it on stupid pork projects and bailing out companies, and if you think that is going to change, think again. Any new taxes will not go only to health care. You know that. It will be wasted.

You say government is basically "evil"... Have you every been to a country without a government? I doubt it, because there is no way in hell you'd want to go there. You sure as hell wouldn't want to live there.

No I wouldn't. I like where I am. You are exactly right.

There is a pretty good reason why there are no good places to live that are purely capitalist or anarchist. By design, pure capitalism doesn't create good places to live; it creates wealth in a very small percentage of the population and a large population of angry poor people. Anarchists are unrealistic idealists and so-called "Utopian societies" never last more than a few years. Socialism is a component of every western democracy because there are certain services (like transportation, law enforcement, fire departments & medicine) that are generally unprofitable in the long run and necessary for a functioning society. Capitalists don't like running unprofitable enterprises.

I am okay with some socialistic components like transportation, law enforcement, fire departments, the military, education, heck even basic health care for the old, the young, and the disabled. But I am not for health care for the lazy, and I am surely not for a government takeover of health care.

By the way, most of the best places to live, by nearly every metric, are democratic socialist countries.

You are probably right. I just wish they would use our tax dollars more wisely. I figure if 10% was good enough for Jesus, it ought to be enough for Uncle Sam.
 
A whole thread devoted to cutting and running.
 
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