Anesthesiologist leaving the U.S.??

[RxBoy]

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So hypothetically speaking... Lets say the doomsday predictions happen such as:

1) Medicare/Public plan eventually wiping out privates in 10 years and majority of our income coming through the flawed "33%" reimbursement and/or privates force the same reimbursement practices on us to stay competitive with the public option..
2) Elective surgical procedures (hip replacements, ect.) plummet thanks to a new Obama "best practice guidelines" advising surgeons against them hence not reimbursing for them.
3) Continuously increasing residency seats, old timers refusing to quit, and a 1:4 CRNA rule becomes something like a 1:10 producing an oversupply of anesthesiologists that out paces the future demand. We essentially become a dime a dozen.
4) Anesthesiologists have to compete with CRNAs and work for CRNA salary. Which we'll still be entitled to our traditional long work weeks with call unlike their "clock out at 4pm" lifestyles.
5) Bundled package payment forcing us to beg for the bones the government throws us, and having to split those bones with all the other doctors/providers involved in the "hospital episode".
6) All this while malpractice claims thrashing through our practices because the law permits lawyers to do as they please.

I think this is the worst case career scenario, but with the new socialistic overtake who knows... its could be even worse.

Now my question... If something like this happens... Can we practice in other countries like Canada or UAE? Whats the salary like for anesthesiologists outside US? Would you have to repeat their residencies?

 

[Planktonmd]

No where else on this planet you can make as much money as we currently make in the good old USA.
But, if this changes and we actually get paid something like $100,000 a year (similar to what some primary care dudes do) then I would rather go work at a place where we are still treated like real doctors, and this can be anywhere other than the USA.

So hypothetically speaking... Lets say the doomsday predictions happen such as:

1) Medicare/Public plan eventually wiping out privates in 10 years and majority of our income coming through the flawed "33%" reimbursement and/or privates force the same reimbursement practices on us to stay competitive with the public option..
2) Elective surgical procedures (hip replacements, ect.) plummet thanks to a new Obama "best practice guidelines" advising surgeons against them hence not reimbursing for them.
3) Continuously increasing residency seats, old timers refusing to quit, and a 1:4 CRNA rule becomes something like a 1:10 producing an oversupply of anesthesiologists that out paces the future demand. We essentially become a dime a dozen.
4) Anesthesiologists have to compete with CRNAs and work for CRNA salary. Which we'll still be entitled to our traditional long work weeks with call unlike their "clock out at 4pm" lifestyles.
5) Bundled package payment forcing us to beg for the bones the government throws us, and having to split those bones with all the other doctors/providers involved in the "hospital episode".
6) All this while malpractice claims thrashing through our practices because the law permits lawyers to do as they please.

I think this is the worst case career scenario, but with the new socialistic overtake who knows... its could be even worse.

Now my question... If something like this happens... Can we practice in other countries like Canada or UAE? Whats the salary like for anesthesiologists outside US? Would you have to repeat their residencies?

 

[Planktonmd]

For the UAE, New Zealand, and Australia your qualifications are accepted and you don't need to take any exams.

No where else on this planet you can make as much money as we currently make in the good old USA.
But, if this changes and we actually get paid something like $100,000 a year (similar to what some primary care dudes do) then I would rather go work at a place where we are still treated like real doctors, and this can be anywhere other than the USA.

 

[DO4lifer]

i don't think i can live anywhere that doesnt have ESPN. 😍

 

[somedumbDO]

I am a little fear full too, especially if a version of this is passed. Obama wants to storm ahead with this plan regardless of the overall consequences. He has major tunnel vision. Taxing 8% on payroll for business that do no offer health insurance will break an already strained middle class. And now people who make more than 200k are the target for obama socialism. I don't think the new bill will pass, the appropriations committee stated that this plan would bankrupt the country, I dont know if obama knows this but we are in a recession and we are not at the bottom yet!!! Also, republicans have blocked this bill and now there is a growing number of democrats that think this bill is over extensive/expensive and being rushed through. This is alienating the liberal democrats....... Dont get me wrong, I think that all WORKING/EMPLOYED people should have insurance and access to health care. If you give incentives for business to provide insurance they WILL give it. The funny thing is that Obama promised tort reform, when running for office and now blatantly said that would not change. Why would you torture yourself in the states (with a bankrupt economy/currency), work 80 plus hours, make 100k and be open to such law suits when you could go to France, make 100K work 35 hours and week and not have the legal risk???? My friend there will be a mass exodus of medical providers in this country. And just to answer your question, as an American physician you can practice anywhere in the world.

Obama I hope you enjoy being treated by mid level providers because that may be the only medical personal left in this country.

 

[Southpaw]

Obama I hope you enjoy being treated by mid level providers because that may be the only medical personal left in this country.

Regardless of what happens, I'll bet my last remaining dollar that Obama will demand the finest treatment available by the best and brightest physicians when it comes to his family. If anyone in medicine thinks he'll include himself with the masses he hopes to cover with a government sponsored plan, then they deserve the pennies he wants to throw their way.

And from what I hear, anesthesiologists might not demand the pay in other countries as they currently do in the US, but I've heard they garner much more respect.

 

[Bertelman]

i don't think i can live anywhere that doesnt have ESPN. 😍

Here ya go.

 

[dhb]

Or this

Hey the grass is always greener on the other side but yes if you can sacrifice some of your american lifestyle then yes there are a lot of places that will accept your US degree.

 

[Planktonmd]

Or this

Hey the grass is always greener on the other side but yes if you can sacrifice some of your american lifestyle then yes there are a lot of places that will accept your US degree.

OK,
I know that you practiced or still practice in Belgium, So tell us how it is like?
Je veux bien comprendre ta situation! 🙂

 

[RxBoy]

I know nothing about the Canadian system but found this article about Canadian doctor salary interesting:

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061004/ont_doctors_061004?s_name=&no_ads

Its slightly dated, but nonetheless may be a viable option to fix Canadian physician shortages.

My friend there will be a mass exodus of medical providers in this country..

Thats half the problem. The other half would be convincing all those IMGs to continue filling primary care positions. Be tough to convince them when they can make the same cash elsewhere. These 2 factors working together will severely exacerbate the physician shortage. At that point handing out insurance will be like handing out GM stocks... sure every can get it, but its worthless.

 

[Impromptu]

I want to live in Switzerland for a few years. However, I don't think credentials transfer very easily in die Schweiz.

 

[rebsu]

My husband looked at a position in Vancouver and it paid around 300k/yr. That's in Canadian dollars, but at the time it was one to one given how low the dollar was. So if the dollar goes back up, it would of course be less. They also don't have to worry about malpractice but are taxed somewhat high. But if Obama's plans go through, anesthesiologists will be taxed more here too. So I would think people should look into it. Also, Australia and New Zealand are hurting for anesthesia providers. They don't pay as well (~100k/yr but that might be what you'd make in the US in 10 years given the current pricing structure); however, they do provide housing for town anesthesiologists and you don't have to worry about malpractice costs there either. These three options alone are something everyone can consider right away. I know we are talking about it.

 

[RussianJoo]

i don't think we have that much to worry about.. once the national health care rolls around we'll simply put in the minimum required time, and work as slowly as possible.. we'll take 1 hour off for lunch and whatever the maximum allowed bathroom breaks are. so we'll make less but also work much less time. Waiting time for surgeries will be weeks to months, (that's how things are in other countries). And then more and more private clinics and surgical centers will pop open heck even private ICUs that don't take government insurance and either take a few private insurances or better yet you have to pay cash up front for the services... And that's where we'll go after we're done working at the government run hospitals and that's where we'll make 90% of our salaries. If people don't want to wait 6 weeks to get an angiocath they'll pay whatever we'll ask. Places like this are already present in canada. American's never like to wait for things, we invented drive through windows and fast food, we want things done right now. this will not be the case with national healthcare, but private options will be available and that's where people will need to go if they want something done right away... so sure our taxes will go up but so will everyone's who's making over $200K or whatever the salary that will be set...

If Maobama is upset at the amount of time doctor spent with his family when they had private insurance, he'll really be steaming at the amount of time the docs will spend with them once they have the government plan.

 

[amherstguy]

nowhere in the world (other than perhaps canada) can a physician make as much bank as america. Im not sure why there is so much worrying on the board, anesthesia is still a great field. everyone is going to get a salary cut IF these bills pass but it looks less likely that it will. anesthesiologists will still keep billing for procedures they performand this is still a better gig than surgery. all surgery is going to increase including cosmetic stuff and the demand for anesthesia is going to skyrocket. it sucks that people will be making less money after going to school for so long but u will still have a job and live upper middle class!

 

[DO4lifer]

i think i complicated things by choosing to go DO. not sure about its international recognition although i'm doing ACGME residency.

whatever happens, i'm not going to do anything drastic. i mean, if i leave the country, i could technically leave my massive med school loan behind, but that is ethically wrong.

i think it will be okay people. just be patient. healthcare needs to be revamped. its not going to be right the first time, but i'm sure in due time, it will be put together in a good way for everybody. 👍

 

[spyyder]

Wow where would you go? Even with socialized medicne you would still make more in the US than any other country. The reason you ge 33% is because that is all an anesthesiolgist deserves. You have less knowledge and traning than a FM doc. Anesthesiolgy services have always been overpriced. When you are making more than surgeons, something is not right. Things are now comming into order, the way they should be. You guys are complaining about socialism? What about your senseless demand for financial entitlements (aka socialism)!

 

[Converge]

Wow where would you go? Even with socialized medicne you would still make more in the US than any other country. The reason you ge 33% is because that is all an anesthesiolgist deserves. You have less knowledge and traning than a FM doc. Anesthesiolgy services have always been overpriced. When you are making more than surgeons, something is not right. Things are now comming into order, the way they should be. You guys are complaining about socialism? What about your senseless demand for financial entitlements (aka socialism)!

ban

 

[thegasman]

Wow where would you go? Even with socialized medicne you would still make more in the US than any other country. The reason you ge 33% is because that is all an anesthesiolgist deserves. You have less knowledge and traning than a FM doc. Anesthesiolgy services have always been overpriced. When you are making more than surgeons, something is not right. Things are now comming into order, the way they should be. You guys are complaining about socialism? What about your senseless demand for financial entitlements (aka socialism)!

What an unprofessional and inflammatory statement. What do you really know about anesthesiology? An FP doc would kill my critically ill patients every time in the OR or ICU. NO other specialty understands the breadth of cardiovascular, respiratory, neurologic and other physiologic states that are effected by anesthesia and disease that an anesthesiologist does. FP docs etc are undervalued, sure, I totally agree. But what they do is completely different. They also complete only a three year residency while anesthesiology is 4 years with many physicians also completing fellowships. So anesthesiologists easily have more training. I do not demand an entitlement. I expect to earn a good living doing a job I like that I have sacrificied many years (and hundreds of thousands in debt) to train for. You say 33% is what we deserve? I could not pay my debt and bills and take care of my family for that.

 

[AK_MD2BE]

What an unprofessional and inflammatory statement. What do you really know about anesthesiology? An FP doc would kill my critically ill patients every time in the OR or ICU. NO other specialty understands the breadth of cardiovascular, respiratory, neurologic and other physiologic states that are effected by anesthesia and disease that an anesthesiologist does. FP docs etc are undervalued, sure, I totally agree. But what they do is completely different. They also complete only a three year residency while anesthesiology is 4 years with many physicians also completing fellowships. So anesthesiologists easily have more training. I do not demand an entitlement. I expect to earn a good living doing a job I like that I have sacrificied many years (and hundreds of thousands in debt) to train for. You say 33% is what we deserve? I could not pay my debt and bills and take care of my family for that.

Gasman...chill out, man. No need to get defensive b/c 95% of the people who visit this forum know that you are right and that this spydder kid is a useless tool. Relax. 😉

 

[gaspasser2004]

It always seems like the sky is falling due to one thing or another. The fact is that there is way too much inertia in the healthcare system for things to change radically, including a 33 percent pay cut. Too many people like their healthcare the way it is for things to change dramatically. As for anesthesia salaries, the free market will always prevail one way or another. Going to sleep is still a very big deal to people and I predict that they will continue to pay a premium to ensure they wake up at the end. As far as CRNA's are concerned, the free market will never allow their salaries to come close to MD's becausw if it did then the choice of provider would be obvious. Unfortunately what the free market has done right now is tighten up partnership track opportunities because the established groups don't know what the future holds. However, if these "fat" groups collectively tighten the partnership opportunities too much, they may find themselves in competition with younger, hungrier, leaner groups. Of course all this will change when the economy recovers and/or more people give up doing anesthesia.

 

[Planktonmd]

I hate to insult you but you are embarrassing if you are really a medical student as you claim,
Why don't you just leave and come back when you are a little older?

Wow where would you go? Even with socialized medicne you would still make more in the US than any other country. The reason you ge 33% is because that is all an anesthesiolgist deserves. You have less knowledge and traning than a FM doc. Anesthesiolgy services have always been overpriced. When you are making more than surgeons, something is not right. Things are now comming into order, the way they should be. You guys are complaining about socialism? What about your senseless demand for financial entitlements (aka socialism)!

 

[Bertelman]

i think it will be okay people. just be patient. healthcare needs to be revamped. its not going to be right the first time, but i'm sure in due time, it will be put together in a good way for everybody. 👍

I agree it won't be as bad as some here suggest. I certainly have no plans to become an ex-pat. But I hardly have faith that our gvmt will "get it right" after a few run-throughs. We've got one shot to make this work for us. Anything less, it will be 10 or 20 more years before it is rectified. Clinton, etc. tried to revamp healthcare 15 years ago. What's happened since then? Nada.

This year, healthcare is the big to-do. Next year, something else. Next 5 years, something else. Think about how long it took us to correct the "teaching rule". That was small beans compared to what lies ahead.

 

[RxBoy]

Wow where would you go? Even with socialized medicne you would still make more in the US than any other country. The reason you ge 33% is because that is all an anesthesiolgist deserves. You have less knowledge and traning than a FM doc. Anesthesiolgy services have always been overpriced. When you are making more than surgeons, something is not right. Things are now comming into order, the way they should be. You guys are complaining about socialism? What about your senseless demand for financial entitlements (aka socialism)!

LOL I know these types... usually the <200 step 1 that wish they could do anesthesia/derm/rad ect. They resent what they can't have kind like the way someone would resent that really hot girl that gave them the cold shaft. They rant and rant. People need to just ignore and move on.

PS: Not convinced.... here's an older post by him:

spyyder
Senior Member



Status: Medical Student
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newark, NJ
Posts: 163

Pain Management in FM?
Pain Management is generally done by Anesthesiology and PMR. Can FM docs also perform these procedures (or complete a pain fellowships)? Is this difficult to get into and is it possible to run 100% pain practices like those guys do? Pain/Wellness centers seems to be fairly lucrative is there a reason more FM guys don't do it?

 

[DO4lifer]

maybe so Bert. although you sound quite old in your statement (which may be the case). i can stand a few years while the system finds the happy medium. for me, i chose anesthesiology because i love it. if i got paid peanuts, it would suck for all the time and training I did to get to this point, but i still wouldn't want to do anything else.

people complain about having to drive greener cars or paying more taxes. but the fact that we got a government that values the lives of innocent people (including those that live abroad) is a WELCOME change and i'm glad its time. my med school interest rates are through the roof because of bush and we were spending billions on invasion of other countries. obama may not be the best, but he's definitely better than the monkey or a man clinching to life with a dog with lipstick as a runningmate. 👍

another thread said that there havent been much to argue...im sure i've incited some tempers

I agree it won't be as bad as some here suggest. I certainly have no plans to become an ex-pat. But I hardly have faith that our gvmt will "get it right" after a few run-throughs. We've got one shot to make this work for us. Anything less, it will be 10 or 20 more years before it is rectified. Clinton, etc. tried to revamp healthcare 15 years ago. What's happened since then? Nada.

This year, healthcare is the big to-do. Next year, something else. Next 5 years, something else. Think about how long it took us to correct the "teaching rule". That was small beans compared to what lies ahead.

 

[dhb]

OK,
I know that you practiced or still practice in Belgium, So tell us how it is like?
Je veux bien comprendre ta situation! 🙂

So here's what it's like:

Belgium being a small country the private sector is accordingly small. In Brussels (capital city) there are a lot of academis centers where pay is low: gross 65k more or less with different type of incentives.
Outside of Brussels you can earn between 100 and 200k in public hospitals.

Private sector: depending on how much vacation you take i'm guessing you should be able to bank 300k or more but the hospital takes a 30% fee so it's better to be making 200k in a public hospital than 300k in a private one.

I talked to a guy in France (much bigger private sector) he was working 3.5 days a week (42h) had 14 weeks off and was banking 150k after taxes.

 

[Bertelman]

maybe so Bert. although you sound quite old in your statement (which may be the case). i can stand a few years while the system finds the happy medium. for me, i chose anesthesiology because i love it. if i got paid peanuts, it would suck for all the time and training I did to get to this point, but i still wouldn't want to do anything else.

If 34 is "quite old"...

 

[geogil]

So here's what it's like:

Belgium being a small country the private sector is accordingly small. In Brussels (capital city) there are a lot of academis centers where pay is low: gross 65k more or less with different type of incentives.
Outside of Brussels you can earn between 100 and 200k in public hospitals.

Private sector: depending on how much vacation you take i'm guessing you should be able to bank 300k or more but the hospital takes a 30% fee so it's better to be making 200k in a public hospital than 300k in a private one.

I talked to a guy in France (much bigger private sector) he was working 3.5 days a week (42h) had 14 weeks off and was banking 150k after taxes.

So how can I work in France (or belgium) as a US trained doc? I'm fluent in french, but certainly not medical terms.

 

[cfdavid]

Guys, all of medicine faces some precarious changes. But, like one of the other posters mentioned, I don't think we're going to see the sky fall. Surely, things are gonna change. Seriously, all Dr's in the US are more likely to make less than more. The exception being PC, and that's a big maybe.

Just the other day, the head of the Congressional Budget Office came out publicly with some statements that the proposed Obama plan will actually INCREASE costs. This has already given the Republicans what they've been waiting for. A Hail Mary, against the Obama "momentum" and superstardom.

We clearly need change in our system. The fact remains (for lots of reasons and many not-so-politically correct) that we achieve a horrific level of outcomes relative to other modernized nations. And, we can all agree that some uninsured dude coming into the ED 3 x/month isn't the model of efficiency.

I think we'll get some moderation in the ultimate change we'll end up seeing. Mid-levels WILL continue to increase in their scope. But, you know what? This increase will happen at a much faster RATE in other fields than in Anes (given the existing situation being what it is). I've already seen it in some of the medical subspecialties, where they send out legions of NP's (which will soon also be recieving "doctorates" of their own) to see Pts while they're down in the endoscopy suite or cath lab.

The glory days of medicine are probably over. But, if we maintain QUALITY services and produce quality anesthesiologists, the differences will be apparent. Also, I don't think we'll see a 67% pay cut. That would be just as big a political hot potato as many other lobbiable issues in Washington. But, surely we'll see decreases in renumeration. However, the sky will NOT fall.

Just my 2 cents....

 

[thegasman]

maybe so Bert. although you sound quite old in your statement (which may be the case). i can stand a few years while the system finds the happy medium. for me, i chose anesthesiology because i love it. if i got paid peanuts, it would suck for all the time and training I did to get to this point, but i still wouldn't want to do anything else.

people complain about having to drive greener cars or paying more taxes. but the fact that we got a government that values the lives of innocent people (including those that live abroad) is a WELCOME change and i'm glad its time. my med school interest rates are through the roof because of bush and we were spending billions on invasion of other countries. obama may not be the best, but he's definitely better than the monkey or a man clinching to life with a dog with lipstick as a runningmate. 👍

another thread said that there havent been much to argue...im sure i've incited some tempers

If our government continues to spend trillions of dollars that it does not have, and continues to take over the private sector, we are all in BIG trouble. I am no fan of Bush (or Mcain), but Obama (and his idiot crew of pelosi,frank etc) is the worst thing that has ever happened to this country.

 

[foxtrot]

If our government continues to spend trillions of dollars that it does not have, and continues to take over the private sector, we are all in BIG trouble. I am no fan of Bush (or Mcain), but Obama (and his idiot crew of pelosi,frank etc) is the worst thing that has ever happened to this country.

Amen. The problems is that these idiots are trying to rush a bill through when they really don't know anything about the real issues. Obama has no experience and the state of IL is a disaster when it comes to medical malpractice. Look at Pelosi's state. They can't even repay their citizens tax refunds. Instead they are giving people IOS's. And these people are trying to "fix" healthcare. It is disgusting. Where they really need to start is by adding tort reform and regulating the insurance industry. But wait, both of those groups are huge lobbies. Who would pay for their fancy trips and dinners. Yet, doctors can't even get a pen from a drug rep. This country is in trouble.

 

[dhb]

So how can I work in France (or belgium) as a US trained doc? I'm fluent in french, but certainly not medical terms.

Medical terms are basically the same (coming from latin) you just have to some paper work

 

[DO4lifer]

If our government continues to spend trillions of dollars that it does not have, and continues to take over the private sector, we are all in BIG trouble. I am no fan of Bush (or Mcain), but Obama (and his idiot crew of pelosi,frank etc) is the worst thing that has ever happened to this country.

i think you forgot about the surplus we had when clinton left....bush was the one that not only used that money, but used additional money (ie ones that we dont have) to take down our economy and lead the loss of so many lives needlessly.

obama is now borrowing money to clean up bush's reckless borrowing. its america baby! show me the credit! 😍

 

[2win]

i think you forgot about the surplus we had when clinton left....bush was the one that not only used that money, but used additional money (ie ones that we dont have) to take down our economy and lead the loss of so many lives needlessly.

obama is now borrowing money to clean up bush's reckless borrowing. its america baby! show me the credit! 😍

Why don't you start a thread pro Obama healthcare reform??? Explain to us how our profession - ANESTHESIA will be better??? If you have an interest in anesthesia anyway. Troll.

 

[timtye78]

lets all do what my buddy told me about:

His friend has already purchased land across the border in Mexico and actually already has building permits to build an American hospital. He said you can do anything in Mexico as long as you drop some coin in their coffers.

Besides that Canada looks nice.

If a lot of people leave the U.S. It will cause major havoc to an already shortly staffed system. Anesthesia is vital to surgery, and we all know surgery, not FP, brings in the money to the system.

Yeah, it seems like it isn't worth the effort to become rich in the US, Obama just wants to take it away from you. Geez, I never thought I would be thinking about moving to another country!

Hopefully, this amounts to a lot of nothing. Guys, I think we should start looking for an alternative to medicine.

 

[Foghorn Leghorn]

i think you forgot about the surplus we had when clinton left....bush was the one that not only used that money, but used additional money (ie ones that we dont have) to take down our economy and lead the loss of so many lives needlessly.

obama is now borrowing money to clean up bush's reckless borrowing. its america baby! show me the credit! 😍

[SIZE=+1]The Myth of the Clinton Surplus[/SIZE]
http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

 

[Licoricestick]

Also, Australia and New Zealand are hurting for anesthesia providers. They don't pay as well (~100k/yr but that might be what you'd make in the US in 10 years given the current pricing structure); however, they do provide housing for town anesthesiologists and you don't have to worry about malpractice costs there either.

I live and work in Australia - we DO pay medical indemnity insurance - in fact I pay a small amount to have insurance even though I only work in the public system and supposedly all my stuff is covered by the public system already (in actual fact they won't cover representation for medical board proceedings and there is always a concern where my own interests may not match the hospital's interests) - in private practice insurance is not provided and you have to pay your own.

Only earn 100k maybe if you work part time...in the public system!
I earnt >100k AUD (~81k USD) as an intern - yes I worked some crazy overtime...but my bosses definitely make more than that. And the more private work you do - the more money you make.

I think it was Plankton who said that US qualifications were recognised in Australia/New Zealand - it is more accurate to say that they MAY be recognised or partially recognised. The pathway (if anyone's interested) for international medical specialists to be granted FANZCA (Fellow of the Australian and New Zealand College of Anaesthetists) through partial or complete recognition of qualifications can be found here. I'm not sure if they consider US qualifications equivalent....but I would point out that there are some significant differences in training program structure - partial recognition would be the most likely outcome I would guess.

Alternatively you could apply to work in an area of need (generally rural areas) - less recognition required, but you are restricted to area of need work. And remember that the bulk of the Australian population lives in a few (four to be precise) cities along the eastern seaboard - so we don't tend to have larger regional centres - one of our capital cities doesn't even do hearts.

 

[pgg]

obama is now borrowing money to clean up bush's reckless borrowing.

I'll bet you typed that with a straight face, too.

Why don't you go max out your Visa, then take out a home equity loan to pay off the Visa, then do cash advances on your Mastercard and Discover to make minimum payments on the HELOC?

 

[Matty44]

obama is now borrowing money to clean up bush's reckless borrowing.

Initial reaction

Figure out poster is NOT being sarcastic 😱

realization that there are actually people out there that truly believe this stuff 😕



Finally....:cry: :cry: :cry:



PS - DO4, maybe tomorrow you can explain to us how Bush is responsible for all the global warming that's taken place over the last 10 years......or is it cooling? I forget, but whatever it is, I'm sure Obama can tax the problem away.

 

[deleted59964]

Only earn 100k maybe if you work part time...in the public system!

shhh !!!!😀

 

[digitlnoize]

I don't think we have that much to worry about.. once the national health care rolls around we'll simply put in the minimum required time, and work as slowly as possible...

We'll take 1 hour off for lunch and whatever the maximum allowed bathroom breaks are. so we'll make less but also work much less time. Waiting time for surgeries will be weeks to months, (that's how things are in other countries).

And then more and more private clinics and surgical centers will pop open heck even private ICUs that don't take government insurance and either take a few private insurances or better yet you have to pay cash up front for the services...

And that's where we'll go after we're done working at the government run hospitals and that's where we'll make 90% of our salaries. If people don't want to wait 6 weeks to get an angiocath they'll pay whatever we'll ask. Places like this are already present in canada. American's never like to wait for things,

I think you've hit the nail on the head. As pay decreases, you'd see more and more doctors (of all specialties) going the cash only route. The FP's are already doing it.

The shortage of doctors accepting the public (or private) insurance would cause a rise in salary in the public/private (non-cash) sector. Supply and Demand.

If PA/NP/NA salary ever approaches MD/DO levels, I think you will again, see a shortage of physicians taking the public insurance. If people aren't willing to pay for the docs, we'll leave, and then there'll be a HUGE problem on the US's hands.

Ultimately, market forces WILL fix whatever happens. The question is, how painful will it be?

 

[spyyder]

Bash and insult all you want, I understand, many of you have the same thing happen to you daily by surgeons that rip you another one (there are many threads dedicated to such venting). What is truly sad is that in the 20+ threads about "OMG where is my monies going!! Maobama is socialist!" not one mention of how you feel about the effect on patient care. All this ranting and raving about leaving the country, reimbursments, and taxation, but no mention of patient care. If you were looking for a reason, there it is. No one is outraged about how cuts could hurt patient care. My guess, it won't, and this is purely a hissy fit. A note for those of you thinking about going into Gas, these guys are NOT RESPRESENTATIVE of the field.

BTW I am planning on applying to gas myself, and will gladly work for 50%+ paycut.

 

[Gimlet]

Bash and insult all you want, I understand, many of you have the same thing happen to you daily by surgeons that rip you another one (there are many threads dedicated to such venting). What is truly sad is that in the 20+ threads about "OMG where is my monies going!! Maobama is socialist!" not one mention of how you feel about the effect on patient care. All this ranting and raving about leaving the country, reimbursments, and taxation, but no mention of patient care. If you were looking for a reason, there it is. No one is outraged about how cuts could hurt patient care. My guess, it won't, and this is purely a hissy fit. A note for those of you thinking about going into Gas, these guys are NOT RESPRESENTATIVE of the field.

BTW I am planning on applying to gas myself, and will gladly work for 50%+ paycut.

WTF are you talking about? There have been multiple discussions on here about the effect these packages may have on patient care. Rationing, excessive wait times for elective surgeries or even life-saving ones, government-mandated "best practices" taking the physician's judgment out of clinical decision-making, expansion of midlevel providers' roles with unproven patient care track records - it's all been covered on here. You need to pay better attention if you're ever gonna be a good troll...

 

[paiute]

i did anes for 10yrs, then I tanked it, transferred to primary care; learned it by myself: textbooks, lots of asking questions, close f/u of patients; it's great fun and very challenging; i work for the gov't and have a great lifestyle; yes, less money, but job satisfaction is very high;

 

[LSU Alex]

BTW I am planning on applying to gas myself, and will gladly work for 50%+ paycut.

Taking into account the physician pay you currently make as a medical student: 50% of zero is... carry the 2... hold on, give me a sec... 🙄

It's ballsy to lecture residents and attendings in the field, guy...

 

[2win]

Bash and insult all you want, I understand, many of you have the same thing happen to you daily by surgeons that rip you another one (there are many threads dedicated to such venting). What is truly sad is that in the 20+ threads about "OMG where is my monies going!! Maobama is socialist!" not one mention of how you feel about the effect on patient care. All this ranting and raving about leaving the country, reimbursments, and taxation, but no mention of patient care. If you were looking for a reason, there it is. No one is outraged about how cuts could hurt patient care. My guess, it won't, and this is purely a hissy fit. A note for those of you thinking about going into Gas, these guys are NOT RESPRESENTATIVE of the field.

BTW I am planning on applying to gas myself, and will gladly work for 50%+ paycut.

If you'll "gladly work for 50%+ paycut" you'll have the chance really soon. Of course if any program director will be an idiot to take you in a residency program. And of course if you'll finish your med school. How do you feel about "patient care"? "No one is outraged about how cuts could hurt patient care. My guess, it won't, and this is purely a hissy fit."
How do you know - do you have any idea what are you talking about? Are you mentally challenged?
"these guys are NOT RESPRESENTATIVE of the field. " - and who is???
Tell us, I am sure that you know...Go back to pbs kids and let as alone!
Or go there http://healthcareforamericanow.com/ and try it with the comrades!

 

[RussianJoo]

Bash and insult all you want, I understand, many of you have the same thing happen to you daily by surgeons that rip you another one (there are many threads dedicated to such venting). What is truly sad is that in the 20+ threads about "OMG where is my monies going!! Maobama is socialist!" not one mention of how you feel about the effect on patient care. All this ranting and raving about leaving the country, reimbursments, and taxation, but no mention of patient care. If you were looking for a reason, there it is. No one is outraged about how cuts could hurt patient care. My guess, it won't, and this is purely a hissy fit. A note for those of you thinking about going into Gas, these guys are NOT RESPRESENTATIVE of the field.

BTW I am planning on applying to gas myself, and will gladly work for 50%+ paycut.

no one mentioned patient care, because patient care has never suffered, it will once medicine is rationed... but up until now everyone got equal care no matter if you had insurance, paid cash or didn't pay a single penny. Do you think there's a a drawer with the cheap propofol that the anesthesiologists give if the patient doesn't have insurance? do the surgeons use defective sutures on those patients? Everyone gets the same care. If you see doctor XYZ in the free clinic you'll get the same doctors opinions as if you saw him in his private office.. do you think doctors leave their brain at the door once they enter the free clinic... Everyone is going to suffer from this plan, the patients will have to wait in long lines to get treatment, and many won't even be able to get treatment because under Maobama's plan elderly will not receive many treatments. Just like in England the government won't pay for your dialysis after age 65. And the doctors will suffer because they'll be making less and will be more frustrated because they won't be able to provide the treatments necessary to save their patients. And everyone else will suffer because their taxes will sky rocket. but hey you guys wanted change, you wanted to make history elect the first black president. this guy is going to screw up this country more than any other president.

 

[spyyder]

no one mentioned patient care, because patient care has never suffered, it will once medicine is rationed... but up until now everyone got equal care no matter if you had insurance, paid cash or didn't pay a single penny. Do you think there's a a drawer with the cheap propofol that the anesthesiologists give if the patient doesn't have insurance? do the surgeons use defective sutures on those patients? Everyone gets the same care. If you see doctor XYZ in the free clinic you'll get the same doctors opinions as if you saw him in his private office.. do you think doctors leave their brain at the door once they enter the free clinic... Everyone is going to suffer from this plan, the patients will have to wait in long lines to get treatment, and many won't even be able to get treatment because under Maobama's plan elderly will not receive many treatments. Just like in England the government won't pay for your dialysis after age 65. And the doctors will suffer because they'll be making less and will be more frustrated because they won't be able to provide the treatments necessary to save their patients. And everyone else will suffer because their taxes will sky rocket. but hey you guys wanted change, you wanted to make history elect the first black president. this guy is going to screw up this country more than any other president.

Once Obama succeeds THEN we will have equal health care. I look forward to it!

 

[2win]

Once Obama succeeds THEN we will have equal health care. I look forward to it!

Yes - everybody will have equal crappy health care. Finally you're right "comrade"!

 

[RxBoy]

Once Obama succeeds THEN we will have equal health care. I look forward to it!

Then why do you want to do pain procedures through FP like you've previously posted? You specifically state its because its lucrative. Your board scores probably won't get you into gas, you're personality def won't. I think you need to do a residency in psychiatry and then give yourself a full assessment.

 

[racerx]

Once Obama succeeds THEN we will have equal health care. I look forward to it!

This slide into socialism will ensure an equally miserable existence for all of us. Can't take credit for below:

There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.

The trouble with the maples,
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light.
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made.
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade.

There was trouble in the forest,
And the creatures all have fled,
As the maples scream "Oppression!"
And the oaks just shake their heads

So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights.
"The oaks are just too greedy;
We will make them give us light."
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.


It will be interesting to see the "maples" start whining again when they realize they're getting shafted by comrade leader Obama's progressive plans too.