Anesthesiologist putting CRNA's thru School

[nitecap]

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If you people feel so strongly negative about CRNA's then why do I presently have offers from 5 different Anesthesia groups wanting to pay my tuition. They will give me as much money as I need if I commit to their practice. Just last week one said they will pay the tuition of the program which is about 40K without living expenses as long as I agrees to work 2yrs at 90K a year instead of 110k which is what they start the graduate NA. Seems to me like you residents are full of crap and just need to loose this ego trip. You will remember this post when you are a partner in a practice and you are at a CRNA recruiting event begging CRNA's with attractive incentives to sign with your group. Like it or not the majority of you will need us. Sure you can do the CAB's and valves and complex whatever percent that gives you a hard on. I will take my 110-160 to the bank and not complain. So please remember all this bit*hing you did on this forum when in 5-10 yrs you are taking this crna student out wining and dining him because you need him so badly to make you more money.

 

[Gas Mask]

they need u to give them more holidays...

that is all

 

[georgia_aa]

So please remember all this bit*hing you did on this forum when in 5-10 yrs you are taking this crna student out wining and dining him because you need him so badly to make you more money.

To all current and future MDAs .... please remember that there is another viable option. A third AA school has just opened and we are gaining ground around the country as far as licensing issues are concerned. We are schooled in the anesthesia care team approach from day one. Our training at Emory and Case Western is excellent. The new program was started by the former director of the Emory program and is following the same model. Please, when you see a CRNA gloating in the manner like they have you over a barrel, remember the AA.

 

[ether_screen]

While the idea of AA?s may seem attractive on the surface, please take note that they are only permitted to practice in a small handful of states. One would think that after 30+ years in the field, they would have made a bit more headway. I wonder why?

Gasman,

More holidays? Hmmm?a 10 year old could quickly deduce that argument is nothing more than a fallacious attempt to help you sleep easier at night. Face it, the health care arena is changing, and those who best adapt will thrive.

 

[jwk]

While the idea of AA?s may seem attractive on the surface, please take note that they are only permitted to practice in a small handful of states. One would think that after 30+ years in the field, they would have made a bit more headway. I wonder why?

An ever increasing number of states - about 15 at last count. That's more than a small handful.

Do you want to rehash THIS again?

 

[driverabu]

Attention nitecrap, crna and all of you dipshts. Get the heck out of the MD forum and into your own. We chose to get our MDs and you chose to get your RN for whatever reason that may be. MDAs will always be worth more than CRNAs and that is final. Quit trying to throw in your crappy 2 cents worth to try and scare your future bosses (MDAs) and worry about holding your own. Bottom line, as a 4th year medical student, regardless of what you knuckle heads say, I am going into anesthesia because I love the field, I will make decent money and I will have a decent lifestyle. Did I say "cush?" NO, I said decent. You go ahead and make your 100-160 and I'll make my 200-250 and we'll both be happy. Quit trying to make yourselves feel more important than MDs because for one, you'll never be (although you all are a vital part of the medical team) and 2, the last I heard, an MD is superior to an RN. If it was sooooooo imperitive that you need to feel like you are at the top, you should have become an MD!!

 

[MacGyver]

I have always said that the primary responsibility for the CRNA disaster is MDAs themselves.

What we have here is a case of older MDAs selling out their own profession so they can bill for CRNA services and make a quick buck.

Here's how the cycle works:

1) MDA hires a CRNA fresh out of school with no experience.

2) MDA teaches the CRNA how to do simple procedures

3) MDA starts billing Medicare/insurance for supervising the CRNA

4) MDA figures he can make more money by using "indirect" supervision (i.e. he only comes into the OR suite once and never sees the CRNA again during the procedure).

5) MDA teaches the CRNA to do ever more complicated procedures so he can bill for more "supervision" while he does his own surgeries in the OR suite next door.

6) X number of years pass by.

7) CRNA now does 90% of what the MDA does, without the MDA ever "supervising" them at all (although the MDA still bills for "supervision.")

8) CRNA looks around and says "what the hell am I doing working for this fool? He taught me 90% of what he knows, hell I might as well work for myself."

9) 10,000 other CRNAs come to the same conclusion.

10) CRNAs organize a massive lobbying effort to get independent practice rights, pointing to the fact that they are already unsupervised by the MDAs and can effectively do 90% of what they do.

11) State legislatures, wanting to save money on healthcare costs, buy the CRNAs argument and voila independent scope of practice results.

I submit to you that CRNAs NEVER would have been successful in their lobbying efforts without MDAs letting them in the door due to their own foolish greed. They wouldnt have the practical experience, and they wouldnt be able to trot to the state legislatures and rightfully claim that MDA "supervision" is a crock of **** and they already do 90% of what an MDA does with no supervision at all.

 

[driverabu]

macgoober, that has to be the dumbest thing you have ever posted. You make no sense whatsoever. You say that MDAs let them in the door with their "own foolish greed." Are the CRNAs not being greedy themselves? Get out of here and shut up

 

[nitecap]

Here is the problem with the whole AA issue. Where I work we have practicing AA's and I think many of them are great, just as good as many CRNA's and both make comparable $$. MD's just want more AA's because they have no lobbying power. They are physician extenders and nothing more though many can also do 90% of what a MDA can do. So this is a prime example of MDA's trying to hoard the wealth. Im not saying one is safer than the other speaking of AA's or CRNA's but the AMA can't assume that legislators or going to believe that AA's or infact more safe than CRNA's when their only what 3-4 AA programs and few actually practicing. So nobody is going to lie, Im going in to the field not only because it pays well but because it offers me a very rewarding career path full of decision making and increased autonomy away from an MD's orders.

 

[MacGyver]

macgoober, that has to be the dumbest thing you have ever posted. You make no sense whatsoever. You say that MDAs let them in the door with their "own foolish greed." Are the CRNAs not being greedy themselves? Get out of here and shut up

You dont get it. Of course the CRNAs are greedy, but they would be NOWHERE NEAR where they are today if the MDAs hadnt given them the keys to the kingdom.

Medicare and insurance companies are going to wake up soon enough. they'll realize that MDAs "supervising" CRNAs by never coming into the OR suite and letting them run the surgery without them even in the room is not real supervision and they're going to eliminate the supervision billing that MDAs got fat from.

When that happens, MDAs will be totally screwed. Cash out now while you can, because once the supervision billing gets eliminated, CRNAs will be in direct competition with MDAs. A quick drop in MDA salaries will result, as the market establishes perpetually lower reimbursements for MDAs and CRNAs both.

 

[InductionAgent]

Quit trying to make yourselves feel more important than MDs because for one, you'll never be (although you all are a vital part of the medical team) and 2, the last I heard, an MD is superior to an RN. If it was sooooooo imperitive that you need to feel like you are at the top, you should have become an MD!!

Driverabu, I'm a medical student myself, and even I'm offended by your tone. It makes me cringe, because I know that you'll be out there pissing off nurses with your arrogance and disrespect, and making them even more hateful toward doctors, and more difficult for the rest of us to work with.

I can only hope that your online persona is not the same as your real-life one.

 

[emt30119]

the last I heard, an MD is superior to an RN.

keep that additude. Piss off the nurses and when you are in residency and a staff physician you will be getting pages at 3am. When you call the number on the pager, no one will answer because somehow that inferior nurse "accidently" paged you to the closet phone, oops.

 

[driverabu]

Did I say anything about pissing off nurses? I am the last one to disrepect people and no my online persona is nothing like my real-life one. I am just sick of these future and current CRNAs trying to scare us away from anesthesia. All I have to say if for them to stay in their own darn forum and keep away from this one.

 

[ether_screen]

I am the last one to disrepect people and no my online persona is nothing like my real-life one.

driverabu,

Let me get this strait. When nestled behind the protection offered by your home computer you are a real badass, but in practice, you are a genuinely nice person? You come off as a true professional. Sounds just like the type of person that many of us would love as our colleague. If you cannot deal with other professionals and differences of opinions, perhaps you should reconsider your options. Keep up the good work.

 

[tkim]

Inflammatory CRNA vs. MDA threads are now going to be closed.