'Anesthesiologist trashes sedated patient — and it ends up costing her'

[W19]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...e05c00-18f3-11e5-ab92-c75ae6ab94b5_story.html

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[Screwtape]

I'd be happy to be insulted for $100k, where do I sign up?

 

[PhillyMed777]

Yeah wow, cannot believe that was worth 500k. I was at least expecting something far worse.
I guess you gotta always be careful.

 

[W19]

Yeah wow, cannot believe that was worth 500k. I was at least expecting something far worse.
I guess you gotta always be careful.

I guess they say lets go after that careless greedy doc... Anesthesiology has been in the news lately as one of the specialties in medicine that make bank...

 

[Eokpar02]

How was he harmed when they said something to him when he was unconscious? Not nice? Sure!!! Not worthy of even a dime of recompense.

 

[giantswing]

Wait for it:
"If that was a crna, this never would have happened."

 

[PhysMatMan]

Well it does sound as if she at least falsified the hemorrhoids on his report. The defamation part about syphilis and TB are obvious jokes though, so I don't know how anyone could prove someone in the room believed it to be fact.

 

[giantswing]

To be fair, this guy did sound like a total weenus.

 

[jw3600]

One of the jurors, Farid Khairzada, said that “there was not much defense, because everything was on tape.” He said that the man’s attorneys asked for $1.75 million and that the $500,000 award was a compromise between one juror who thought the man deserved nothing and at least one who thought he deserved more.

“We finally came to a conclusion,” Khairzada said, “that we have to give him something, just to make sure that this doesn’t happen again.”


Yes, because the thought of 12 semi or uneducated people stoked to miss some work deciding verdicts like this is exactly what I need to hear to boost my optimism about medicine.

 

[jippyslim]

Unprofessional? Yes. Deserved $500K? No. Nothing illegal was done to the patient.

 

[Dares Dareson]

Absolutely he deserved $500,000 and that anesthesiologist should have her license suspended if not revoked. I am astounded at these doctors' immaturity and lack of compassion. If you want to blow off steam, do it in the break room or your office. Not with the patient. But even then, the statements they made were so mean-spirited and vitriolic. It is downright sociopathic and shows a lack of compassion that is frightening given their profession. Total overkill for a fear of needles, which millions of people have. I've never heard anything like this in the hospital. Not to mention they falsified notes in his chart and lied to him about giving him post-procedure instructions.

How anyone can defend these docs is beyond me. Justice well served.

 

[Bancrofti]

Just came on here to post this article. I read it on MSN..
http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-...ed-patient-—-and-it’s-all-recorded/ar-AAc1mKn

The comments section is such a joke. There is no reason this man should have been awarded a penny.

 

[Bancrofti]

Absolutely he deserved $500,000 and that anesthesiologist should have her license suspended if not revoked. I am astounded at these doctors' immaturity and lack of compassion. If you want to blow off steam, do it in the break room or your office. Not with the patient. But even then, the statements they made were so mean-spirited and vitriolic. It is downright sociopathic and shows a lack of compassion that is frightening given their profession. Total overkill for a fear of needles, which millions of people have. I've never heard anything like this in the hospital. Not to mention they falsified notes in his chart and lied to him about giving him post-procedure instructions.

How anyone can defend these docs is beyond me. Justice well served.

Have you been in an OR before? If every patient in the country that was joked about once they went under was awarded money we'd be giving billions away.

The comments are insensitive for sure and I would agree that some form of disciplinary action should be taken by the practice/hospital. However, this guy is clearly a wimp. He's likely been told this before and other people have had to deal with his BS. He's just trying to take advantage of a system... he'd be the same guy who stops suddenly in front of you while driving, you softly love tap, then gets out of his car complaining of neck pain.

$500,000 is not justified. The ONLY way I could understand this settlement is if they went back and actually saw that the physicians falsified info in the patient's medical records or gave him inappropriate information with his discharge instructions.

 

[Jabbed]

I wonder if the settlement would've increased or decreased if the physicians' commentary had actually been funny.

 

[Bill Brasky]

The malpractice award was justified, but Jesus, $50k each for a couple of comments spoken privately? Seriously? So if someone says something nasty to my face I can take them to court for "defamation" and pay off all my student loans?

 

[Dares Dareson]

The comments section is such a joke. There is no reason this man should have been awarded a penny.

So when you have a procedure you don't care if the doctors make fun of you in an incredibly mean spirited and disrespectful fashion, record false diagnoses in your chart, and then lie about giving you post-procedure instructions?

 

[Dares Dareson]

The malpractice award was justified, but Jesus, $50k each for a couple of comments spoken privately? Seriously? So if someone says something nasty to my face I can take them to court for "defamation" and pay off all my student loans?

The idea of punitive damages is not to award the plaintiff. It is to punish the offending party and make sure this does not happen again.

 

[Bill Brasky]

The idea of punitive damages is not to award the plaintiff. It is to punish the offending party and make sure this does not happen again.

The jury awarded the man $100,000 for defamation — $50,000 each for the comments about the man having syphilis and tuberculosis — and $200,000 for medical malpractice, as well as the $200,000 in punitive damages.

$100k for defamation specifically, $200k for malpractice, plus an additional $200k for punitive damages.

 

[Bancrofti]

So when you have a procedure you don't care if the doctors make fun of you in an incredibly mean spirited and disrespectful fashion, record false diagnoses in your chart, and then lie about giving you post-procedure instructions?

My whole life I've actually been a big proponent of telling it like it is. So me, personally? No, I wouldn't care if I was being called out for being a grown man yet acting like a adolescent girl. I can acknowledge that some people are quite sensitive and we should be cognizant of the fact that small things we say can have a huge impact on them, but in no way do I think a settlement that large is warranted, especially considering that once you are sued those things don't go away.

 

[BobbyB]

My whole life I've actually been a big proponent of telling it like it is. So me, personally? No, I wouldn't care if I was being called out for being a grown man yet acting like a adolescent girl. I can acknowledge that some people are quite sensitive and we should be cognizant of the fact that small things we say can have a huge impact on them, but in no way do I think a settlement that large is warranted, especially considering that once you are sued those things don't go away.

well now there is precedence for defamation if you joke about any findings

just a sober reminder to watch what you say

this is the state of medicine today

 

[Dares Dareson]

Have you been in an OR before? If every patient in the country that was joked about once they went under was awarded money we'd be giving billions away.

The comments are insensitive for sure and I would agree that some form of disciplinary action should be taken by the practice/hospital. However, this guy is clearly a wimp. He's likely been told this before and other people have had to deal with his BS. He's just trying to take advantage of a system... he'd be the same guy who stops suddenly in front of you while driving, you softly love tap, then gets out of his car complaining of neck pain.

$500,000 is not justified. The ONLY way I could understand this settlement is if they went back and actually saw that the physicians falsified info in the patient's medical records or gave him inappropriate information with his discharge instructions.

When I was a teenager I was in a bicycle accident. I was taken by EMS to the ER, complaining of severe neck pain. The doctor did an x-ray and refused to do any further imaging. He said the x-ray was clean and that I was being a "pain wuss." I will never forget those exact words. My pain did not subside, so my mom took me to an orthopedic surgeon the next day. He did a new x-ray and immediately saw that I had a C1 fracture. Good thing I kept the c-collar on until I saw him. Anyone who presumptively calls a patient a "wimp" or a "wuss" is begging for a lawsuit, not to mention taking bad care of his or her patients. That kind of machismo attitude is bad for everyone. Maybe this time there was no physical harm to this particular patient (hopefully they didn't miss anything while working so hard on their clever zingers), but it's only a matter of time before their jaded, casual attitude gets somebody hurt. Verdict justified.

Of course everyone makes fun of patients to some degree. But the amount of effort and malice these folks put into it is just sickening. There's a difference in joking to a colleague "Can you have a taxi come to the unit, because [dementia patient] says she has to go to the dance" versus "I just want to punch this ****** wimp in the face."

 

[W19]

...

 

[giantswing]

When I was a teenager I was in a bicycle accident. I was taken by EMS to the ER, complaining of severe neck pain. The doctor did an x-ray and refused to do any further imaging. He said the x-ray was clean and that I was being a "pain wuss." I will never forget those exact words. My pain did not subside, so my mom took me to an orthopedic surgeon the next day. He did a new x-ray and immediately saw that I had a C1 fracture. Good thing I kept the c-collar on until I saw him. Anyone who presumptively calls a patient a "wimp" or a "wuss" is begging for a lawsuit, not to mention taking bad care of his or her patients. That kind of machismo attitude is bad for everyone. Maybe this time there was no physical harm to this particular patient (hopefully they didn't miss anything while working so hard on their clever zingers), but it's only a matter of time before their jaded, casual attitude gets somebody hurt. Verdict justified.

Of course everyone makes fun of patients to some degree. But the amount of effort and malice these folks put into it is just sickening. There's a difference in joking to a colleague "Can you have a taxi come to the unit, because [dementia patient] says she has to go to the dance" versus "I just want to punch this ****** wimp in the face."

So are you going to give dilaudid and do an NP worthy work up on everyone who complains of pain somewhere?

Also, patients can really, really suck. Some are great, some are really bad.

 

[Slack3r]

Absolutely he deserved $500,000 and that anesthesiologist should have her license suspended if not revoked. I am astounded at these doctors' immaturity and lack of compassion. If you want to blow off steam, do it in the break room or your office. Not with the patient. But even then, the statements they made were so mean-spirited and vitriolic. It is downright sociopathic and shows a lack of compassion that is frightening given their profession. Total overkill for a fear of needles, which millions of people have. I've never heard anything like this in the hospital. Not to mention they falsified notes in his chart and lied to him about giving him post-procedure instructions.

How anyone can defend these docs is beyond me. Justice well served.

MS1? Or MS0?

 

[Bancrofti]

When I was a teenager I was in a bicycle accident. I was taken by EMS to the ER, complaining of severe neck pain. The doctor did an x-ray and refused to do any further imaging. He said the x-ray was clean and that I was being a "pain wuss." I will never forget those exact words. My pain did not subside, so my mom took me to an orthopedic surgeon the next day. He did a new x-ray and immediately saw that I had a C1 fracture. Good thing I kept the c-collar on until I saw him. Anyone who presumptively calls a patient a "wimp" or a "wuss" is begging for a lawsuit, not to mention taking bad care of his or her patients. That kind of machismo attitude is bad for everyone. Maybe this time there was no physical harm to this particular patient (hopefully they didn't miss anything while working so hard on their clever zingers), but it's only a matter of time before their jaded, casual attitude gets somebody hurt. Verdict justified.

Of course everyone makes fun of patients to some degree. But the amount of effort and malice these folks put into it is just sickening. There's a difference in joking to a colleague "Can you have a taxi come to the unit, because [dementia patient] says she has to go to the dance" versus "I just want to punch this ****** wimp in the face."

Sorry for your situation, but a missed diagnosis is not the same as making fun of a patient. An initial xray may not show a fracture. Trust me, ironically, more than anyone I can empathize with what happened to you. I had a similar situation that went misdiagnosed at hospital A who told me to go home, but when more symptoms started arising the next day, I went to hospital B and was admitted for >2 weeks and was told I could have died. That incident sparked my desire to get involved in medicine. Despite what could have been a terrible outcome, not once did I ever consider suing hospital A... and my life was in danger, not my self-esteem.

Did you listen to the audio? I think it is played out of order to make the anesthesiologist look worse, but it is the medical assistant who first says that she wants to punch the patient in the face and called him a ******. The anesthesiologist follows up with wanting to punch him also to help him man up. Everything else is clearly said in a joking or satirical manner. This case is ridiculous.

 

[NontradCA]

Turns out, some doctors are idiots. I actually don't feel bad for them at all.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

This is a depressing and yet thoroughly unsurprising commentary thus far.

This woman's actions were deplorable. She absolutely deserved the lawsuit - I guess I question whether it was "malpractice" since no direct medical harm done, but defamation hell yes and punitive damages make sense (people should look up what punitive damages means in a legal sense before they get their panties in a twist).

I'm surprised she still has her medical license.

And I say this as a doctor who works frequently with anesthetized patients and who works frequently with frustrating patient populations.

 

[AlmostAnMD]

I've always heard that getting out of jury duty is a litmus test for your intelligence

which is too bad, but probably true

 

[justin1390]

I agree you guys. This lawsuit was absolutely justified, though I don't agree with the amount rewarded. There is a malignant idea in medicine that when the patient is asleep, you can say whatever you want. I'm sure anyone over an MS2 has seen it all the time. Being a physician is a profession. That means you need to act professional. Just because the patient is asleep doesn't give you the right to spout off whatever your beef is with them. Let's face it, most in the OR don't care anyway. And in the future, none of the staff you work with would ever want you working on them = zero respect.

I'm sorry to those who don't agree and think these comments are ok. But in the end, it says a lot about your personality and integrity when maintaining a professional atmosphere. One of the things that sets apart a good doctor and an excellent doctor is the ability to handle difficult patients in a professional manner. That's what we spent years training for (or maybe not, if you truly didn't give a care). If you can't do that, then you're no more professional than Joe off the street. And I'll tell you what...I don't want Joe doing surgery on me.

We're doctors, not animals. I'm of the opinion medicine demands excellence in knowledge, ethics and professionalism. If you can't [wo]man up to these tasks after at least 7 years of training, then you simply don't belong. You can always work retail and make fun of customers.

 

[sliceofbread136]

Honestly I wish she lost her license. Disgusting

 

[ICUrunning]

Absolutely he deserved $500,000 and that anesthesiologist should have her license suspended if not revoked. I am astounded at these doctors' immaturity and lack of compassion. If you want to blow off steam, do it in the break room or your office. Not with the patient. But even then, the statements they made were so mean-spirited and vitriolic. It is downright sociopathic and shows a lack of compassion that is frightening given their profession. Total overkill for a fear of needles, which millions of people have. I've never heard anything like this in the hospital. Not to mention they falsified notes in his chart and lied to him about giving him post-procedure instructions.

How anyone can defend these docs is beyond me. Justice well served.

Agreed. I'm astonished at the number of medical students on here that take the docs' sides on this or are surprised that the patient was awarded $$$. Absolutely horrendous if you have no sympathy for the patient who lies on the table, underneath the lights, under the supposed care of medical professionals. Only to be ridiculed and mocked for physical abnormalities.

Are these physicians or are these schoolyard bullies?

If you want to make fun of people, go play some Call of Duty or work in customer service or some ****.

 

[W19]

Turns out, some doctors are idiots. I actually don't feel bad for them at all.

 

[W19]

I worked in the OR and I can say many physicians and support staff act the way that physicians did, albeit that physician went over board with her nonsense. However, I don't think she should lose her med license.

 

[jw3600]

I agree you guys. This lawsuit was absolutely justified, though I don't agree with the amount rewarded. There is a malignant idea in medicine that when the patient is asleep, you can say whatever you want. I'm sure anyone over an MS2 has seen it all the time. Being a physician is a profession. That means you need to act professional. Just because the patient is asleep doesn't give you the right to spout off whatever your beef is with them. Let's face it, most in the OR don't care anyway. And in the future, none of the staff you work with would ever want you working on them = zero respect.

I'm sorry to those who don't agree and think these comments are ok. But in the end, it says a lot about your personality and integrity when maintaining a professional atmosphere. One of the things that sets apart a good doctor and an excellent doctor is the ability to handle difficult patients in a professional manner. That's what we spent years training for (or maybe not, if you truly didn't give a care). If you can't do that, then you're no more professional than Joe off the street. And I'll tell you what...I don't want Joe doing surgery on me.

We're doctors, not animals. I'm of the opinion medicine demands excellence in knowledge, ethics and professionalism. If you can't [wo]man up to these tasks after at least 7 years of training, then you simply don't belong. You can always work retail and make fun of customers.

I agree. I just do not think being made fun of entitles you to money. Regardless of who was being offensive.

Honestly I wish she lost her license. Disgusting

This would actually be more reasonable to me than any monetary damages. You can argue that her behavior illustrates that she is unfit to be a professional licensed and boarded by other professional organizations. You can't argue (well, I did not think you could) that her unprofessional behavior equates to monetary damages.

I am referring to the explicit and offensive comments she made. I do not really understand exactly what went down with the whole hemorrhoid thing.

 

[touchpause13]

I don't necessarily think she deserves to lose her license, but the lawsuit seems fair. Don't be a jerk to patients

 

[jw3600]

I don't necessarily think she deserves to lose her license, but the lawsuit seems fair. Don't be a jerk to patients

See this rationale bothers me. While I agree in principle with the appropriateness of those consequences, I have a massive issue with the legality of them. This is why things get murky when lay people start to trying to apply the law to real life matters.

 

[W19]

...

 

[PhysMatMan]

In the one article I saw, the lawyer said that the defamation charge only holds water if anyone in the room actually believed the degrading comments, but they are obviously said in jest. I haven't studied law, but from that it seems that no compensation for defamation should be awarded.

 

[NontradCA]

What is sad about this? Don't you think what the docs did in this case was not only inappropriate, but stupid? Certainly from day 1 in medical school you learn to be professional in front of patients. In my opinion it makes it worse that they would talk about the patient when they're under GA. What they did made no sense, and comes off as school yard bully behavior. I'm actually ashamed to be associated with such people.

 

[Bancrofti]

I agree you guys. This lawsuit was absolutely justified, though I don't agree with the amount rewarded. There is a malignant idea in medicine that when the patient is asleep, you can say whatever you want. I'm sure anyone over an MS2 has seen it all the time. Being a physician is a profession. That means you need to act professional. Just because the patient is asleep doesn't give you the right to spout off whatever your beef is with them. Let's face it, most in the OR don't care anyway. And in the future, none of the staff you work with would ever want you working on them = zero respect.

I'm sorry to those who don't agree and think these comments are ok. But in the end, it says a lot about your personality and integrity when maintaining a professional atmosphere. One of the things that sets apart a good doctor and an excellent doctor is the ability to handle difficult patients in a professional manner. That's what we spent years training for (or maybe not, if you truly didn't give a care). If you can't do that, then you're no more professional than Joe off the street. And I'll tell you what...I don't want Joe doing surgery on me.

We're doctors, not animals. I'm of the opinion medicine demands excellence in knowledge, ethics and professionalism. If you can't [wo]man up to these tasks after at least 7 years of training, then you simply don't belong. You can always work retail and make fun of customers.

$500,000 is justified??? I'm actually in awe of how many people think this is okay. The guy won't get the entire settlement, but people think it is warranted to give a man half a million dollars, more than the average American will make in 10 years, for getting made fun of???

To get things started, he was not having surgery, he was having a colonoscopy, not that one's ethical duty changes by specialty. It just kind of shows people aren't reading the entire article or listening to the audio.

Even from a legal standpoint I can't even understand how this was awarded. The article I read itself states:

“Usually, all [legal] publication requires is publication to someone other than the plaintiff,” Berlik said. “If one of the doctors said to someone else in the room that this guy had syphilis and tuberculosis, and that person believed it, that could be a claim. Then it’s up to the jury to decide, were the statements literal assertions of fact? The jury apparently was just so offended at this unprofessional behavior that they’re going to give the plaintiff a win. That’s what happens in the real world.”

No person in that room believed that the guy had syphilis or TB. Moreover, nobody thought he had TB of his PENIS. The information was essentially presented to a jury who can't put the conversation in a satirical context and felt bad for the guy so they just gave him a ton of money... because they can.

I know typically lawyers will have their clients ask for more than is necessary so that the final award is still a respectable amount, but seriously... this guy's lawyers asked for $1.75 million dollars!.. you're joking.

It sucks that those physicians were in VA. From my knowledge, there are a decent amount of places where recorded audio cannot be used as a form of evidence if both parties aren't aware of the recording. Had that this colonoscopy been elsewhere this guy would have heard the audio, felt bad about it for a while, then had to suck it up and move on with his life as the rest of the people in that room had as they surely soon forgot about this patient. I don't think the comments are right, I just really don't think that the patient directly should have been awarded anything that did not result in or ever pose any threat to his health or career.

 

[W19]

What is sad about this? Don't you think what the docs did in this case was not only inappropriate, but stupid? Certainly from day 1 in medical school you learn to be professional in front of patients. In my opinion it makes it worse that they would talk about the patient when they're under GA. What they did made no sense, and comes off as school yard bully behavior. I'm actually ashamed to be associated with such people.

I think a disciplinary action would be more appropriate in such case...

 

[NontradCA]

I think a disciplinary action would be more appropriate in such case...

Money talks. Which is why she'll never talk **** about patients in this context again.

 

[jw3600]

Money talks. Which is why she'll never talk **** about patients in this context again.

So this is an ends justify the means type thing?

 

[DOFOSHO]

.

 

[JackieChanFan]

I think the 500k is justified. Aside from the medical malpractice, the guy suffered severe mental distress. For all I know, he could go on to develop major depression and lose 500k+ in lost productivity over his lifetime as a result of this incident.

And for everyone saying how the patient should just "suck it up" and "move on" -- while this may be an acceptable thing to say to a medical trainee, it's not something you should ever say to a patient.

 

[Merely]

I'm happy the doctor got screwed. This should be considered a financial penalty for just being plain stupid. No compassion whatsoever I sure as hell would not want this doc treating my family.

 

[BobbyB]

I think the 500k is justified. Aside from the medical malpractice, the guy suffered severe mental distress. For all I know, he could go on to develop major depression and lose 500k+ in lost productivity over his lifetime as a result of this incident.

And for everyone saying how the patient should just "suck it up" and "move on" -- while this may be an acceptable thing to say to a medical trainee, it's not something you should ever say to a patient.

why is it acceptable to say to a medical trainee? why is it okay to treat us worse than our patients?

 

[Member 1337]

Can't wait for the day I get fined several hundred thousand dollars for a snarky SDN comment...

 

[BobbyB]

Money talks. Which is why she'll never talk **** about patients in this context again.

this train of thought is why we have the highest healthcare spending per capita in the world

 

[W19]

The punishment does not fit the stupidness. They gave the defendant too much money... 25-50k would have been more appropriate IMO. Sleazy lawyers are out to screw physicians!