Patient dismissed from primary care clinic for making anti-trans statements

[futureapppsy2]

Breast cancer patient banned from Oregon hospital before mastectomy

An Oregan woman with breast cancer has spoken out after allegedly being banned from her medical clinic for questioning the presence of a trans flag in the medical setting.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Tl;dr:
-Patient repeatedly notes that a transgender flag in the clinic is "disrespectful" and "triggering" to her personally and demands it be removed.
-Clinic later dismisses patient for repeated "disrespectful and hurtful remarks" towards "the clinic community and staff."
-Patient has multiple serious medical conditions (liver transplant, breast cancer, depression, etc) but appears to still have access to specialty care.

(I know that the Daily Mail isn't the best source, but it has pictures of at least some of the communication on both ends.)

Thoughts? On one hand, the inclusion of "staff" in the clinic letter and the fact that she mentions discussing this multiple times with the clinic staff in person and on the phone in her MyChart messages makes me wonder if she had said harassing things directly to the staff, which would typically be grounds for dismissal from non-emergency care clinics. On the other hand, removing patients from care for their ideological stances (even ones I personally disagree with) seems like it's on rather iffy ethical grounds.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[MateoGM416]

-Clinic later dismisses patient for repeated "disrespectful and hurtful remarks" towards "the clinic community and staff."
-Patient has multiple serious medical conditions (liver transplant, breast cancer, depression, etc) but appears to still have access to specialty care.

So what is the issue here. If the patient was upset that a meaningless painting on the wall was triggering, and also repeatedly made disrespectful and hurtful remarks towards the clinic staff, would this be a news story at all? Or does culture war content get more clicks.

 

[Lifeblood_20]

Sounds like she didn't want to get her care there anyway because of the flag? Would be pretty unreasonable for a clinic to remove the flag to accommodate a single patient imo. And if she is disrespectful towards the staff over this it'd be pretty reasonable to dismiss her.

 

[PikminOC]

What if there was an American Flag posted there? Would they dismiss people who didn't want it there?

 

[operaman]

I’m probably one of the least woke people here, but something tells me this lady was a real piece of work. While Twitter would certainly have no problem crucifying someone for kindly asking someone to remove a flag, I can’t imagine even the most leftist clinic out there doing the same to an otherwise beloved patient in need.

My guess is she was a pain before and really made a scene over this. It was probably the last straw in a long series of issues.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Speaking generally, it takes a lot for bad behavior to get you dismissed from a practice. Doctors all put up with lots of nonsense as part of the job and 99% of jerk patients don't get this treatment.

That said, the article makes her sound pretty bad.

First off, you don't get banned from a large hospital system's entire family medicine department like she was unless you have done something really terrible.

Second, she compared a transgender flag to a Nazi flag. If I had a patient compare anything in my office to the Nazi's I would dismiss them immediately.

Third, and speaking generally, I really hate this sort of thing. If you're unhappy with your doctor's office go find a new one. Its not usually that hard. If you Karen it up like this, expect to be dismissed. Since COVID started our front office staff has been berated and harassed on an almost hourly basis. This sort of thing shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I’m probably one of the least woke people here, but something tells me this lady was a real piece of work. While Twitter would certainly have no problem crucifying someone for kindly asking someone to remove a flag, I can’t imagine even the most leftist clinic out there doing the same to an otherwise beloved patient in need.

My guess is she was a pain before and really made a scene over this. It was probably the last straw in a long series of issues.

Yeah—I definitely get the impression that she badgered them about it repeatedly (and in blatantly transphobic ways, no doubt), they tried to defuse the situation without giving in, and then the MyChart message was the last straw.

 

[PikminOC]

Yeah—I definitely get the impression that she badgered them about it repeatedly (and in blatantly transphobic ways, no doubt), they tried to defuse the situation without giving in, and then the MyChart message was the last straw.

If there was a cross up and people didn't want it there, what kind of phobia would that be? Doesn't make sense to post things at the office like that

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If there was a cross up and people didn't want it there, what kind of phobia would that be? Doesn't make sense to post things at the office like that

I don't think you read the post. It wasn't objecting to the flag that the poster said was transphobia, they were suspecting that the person complained in transphobic ways.

If I go to an office with a full crucifix on the wall and just say it makes me uncomfortable, that's not anti-Christian. If I go in and say that all Christians are child rapists and they deserve to die, that is.

Now we don't know exactly what this woman said, but as I wrote above it is very likely that it was either a persistent thing after being told multiple times to stop or she did it in a way that was inappropriate.

 

[Mr.Smile12]

Without any clue about the situation, it just feels that the patient wants the spotlight. She's getting her scheduled treatment denied because she wanted to make noise. We got a lot of Marjorie Taylor Greene/Lauren Boebert/Kari Lake/Karen types craving attention to drive public pity or sentiment towards their position (make a statement against LGBTQ, and double down if you're a "snowflake", trample my First Amendment rights, yadayada). In other words, it feels performative and getting kicked out drives their troll factories and fundraising machinery to find a "Christian"-friendly provider since she probably has to go off-network to get this surgery now.

 

[Candidate2017]

OP, you're a PhD med school professor?

So it is fair to assume you have little to no real patient contact or clinical work? And, you likely teach "patient-centric care" and "empathy"? I ask because, in the real world, every practicing physician (or nurse, medical assistant, or clinic secretary) knows how much verbal abuse, harassment, and threats we have to suffer before patients are kicked out.

Also, what is the med school stance on flags these days? Flags are inherently political statements. Is it ok to fly a Russian flag? Or Ukrainian flag? Or Saudi flag? Or Support our Troops flag? Or Don't Tread on Me flag? If I work for a Catholic hospital, should I take down banners that say so?

 

[PathNeuroIMorFM]

Lol reminds me of my old barber who had the most abhorrent political views and would not shut up about them, but at the end of the day, the guy could cut hair so I went.

I just cannot imagine making such a fuss about a flag on the wall right before a life saving surgery. Some people have different priorities, I guess.

 

[mrbreakfast]

Very likely not the whole story, as "being obnoxious" will not get you dismissed from an academic medical center clinic. Because complaining about a flag is a zero on a scale of 1-10, and I can tell you how impossible it is to get a patient dismissed from clinic.

On the other hand, removing patients from care for their ideological stances (even ones I personally disagree with) seems like it's on rather iffy ethical grounds.

Forget ethics, the big issue is medicolegal. There's a reason it is so challenging to dismiss patients from clinic. Patient abandonment/inappropriate dismissal is one of the easiest ways to lose a big lawsuit.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Very likely not the whole story, as "being obnoxious" will not get you dismissed from an academic medical center clinic. Because complaining about a flag is a zero on a scale of 1-10, and I can tell you how impossible it is to get a patient dismissed from clinic.


Forget ethics, the big issue is medicolegal. There's a reason it is so challenging to dismiss patients from clinic. Patient abandonment/inappropriate dismissal is one of the easiest ways to lose a big lawsuit.

Abandonment yes, inappropriate dismissal not really. As long as we don't dismiss someone for a protected reason and we follow state rules to make sure we don't just abandon them, we're usually safe.

 

[PikminOC]

Speaking generally, it takes a lot for bad behavior to get you dismissed from a practice. Doctors all put up with lots of nonsense as part of the job and 99% of jerk patients don't get this treatment.

That said, the article makes her sound pretty bad.

First off, you don't get banned from a large hospital system's entire family medicine department like she was unless you have done something really terrible.

Second, she compared a transgender flag to a Nazi flag. If I had a patient compare anything in my office to the Nazi's I would dismiss them immediately.

Third, and speaking generally, I really hate this sort of thing. If you're unhappy with your doctor's office go find a new one. Its not usually that hard. If you Karen it up like this, expect to be dismissed. Since COVID started our front office staff has been berated and harassed on an almost hourly basis. This sort of thing shouldn't be tolerated.

And you're right we don't know what happened. But with the way cancel culture is on this matter, it may not have taken much to ger the label of "transphobic" and dismissed.

 

[MateoGM416]

And you're right we don't know what happened. But with the way cancel culture is on this matter, it may not have taken much to ger the label of "transphobic" and dismissed.

I think a discussion about cancel culture is irrelevant considering it's been established that the patient was verbally abusive towards clinic staff.

 

[PikminOC]

I think a discussion about cancel culture is irrelevant considering it's been established that the patient was verbally abusive towards clinic staff.

Once again we don't know what was said.

 

[MateoGM416]

Once again we don't know what was said.

Then why try to force a discussion about cancel culture?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

And you're right we don't know what happened. But with the way cancel culture is on this matter, it may not have taken much to ger the label of "transphobic" and dismissed.

Cancel culture has not, to my knowledge, lead to termination of doctor-patient relationships that includes being banned from an entire major university's family medicine department. If this is actually common place, feel free to post evidence of that.

Until then, while my post is conjecture, it is based on 13 years of being an outpatient family physician and simple saying that <insert object in waiting room> bothers you isn't getting anyone dismissed from an entire department.

 

[PikminOC]

Cancel culture has not, to my knowledge, lead to termination of doctor-patient relationships that includes being banned from an entire major university's family medicine department. If this is actually common place, feel free to post evidence of that.

Until then, while my post is conjecture, it is based on 13 years of being an outpatient family physician and simple saying that <insert object in waiting room> bothers you isn't getting anyone dismissed from an entire department.

Due to privacy laws not sure I can find data.

And the staff may have felt verbally abused if they were "triggered" by "transphobic" language of someone not agreeing wholeheartedly with them. Once again we don't know

It is Oregon. Home of Esther Choo and it's a liberal state

 

[futureapppsy2]

OP, you're a PhD med school professor?

So it is fair to assume you have little to no real patient contact or clinical work? And, you likely teach "patient-centric care" and "empathy"? I ask because, in the real world, every practicing physician (or nurse, medical assistant, or clinic secretary) knows how much verbal abuse, harassment, and threats we have to suffer before patients are kicked out.

Also, what is the med school stance on flags these days? Flags are inherently political statements. Is it ok to fly a Russian flag? Or Ukrainian flag? Or Saudi flag? Or Support our Troops flag? Or Don't Tread on Me flag? If I work for a Catholic hospital, should I take down banners that say so?

I actually supervise students in clinical placements frequently, so yes, I do have a lot of clinical work, and yes, I've both had patients harass and verbally abuse me and had supervisees harassed and verbally abused by patients (in some ways, it comes with the territory in mental health). It's weird that you would assume otherwise, tbh.

 

[PikminOC]

Then why try to force a discussion about cancel culture?

Because people who don't assimilate lose privileges. And this is OHSU. Patient says clinic barred her over transgender flag complaint; story goes viral

"Oregon Health & Science University – told her it’ll no longer treat her after she complained about its display of a transgender pride flag and made what it called “disrespectful and hurtful remarks” about the LGBTQ community and staff at OHSU’s Richmond Primary Care Clinic in Southeast Portland. The clinic is part of an OHSU network that offers gender-affirming care."

Define hateful in this context. I am guessing it's not agreeing. don't see anything about verbal abuse. We will find out if she proceeds with a lawsuit and the case is made public.

 

[MateoGM416]

Because people who don't assimilate lose privileges.

That's an even more irrelevant point. It's not clear even who you are referring to

 

[PikminOC]

That's an even more irrelevant point. It's not clear even who you are referring to

Everyone. But esp everyone at ohsu. Losing your PCP and all the ones there is being canceled from their clinic is losing privileges

 

[futureapppsy2]

Because people who don't assimilate lose privileges. And this is OHSU. Patient says clinic barred her over transgender flag complaint; story goes viral

"Oregon Health & Science University – told her it’ll no longer treat her after she complained about its display of a transgender pride flag and made what it called “disrespectful and hurtful remarks” about the LGBTQ community and staff at OHSU’s Richmond Primary Care Clinic in Southeast Portland. The clinic is part of an OHSU network that offers gender-affirming care."

Define hateful in this context. I am guessing it's not agreeing. don't see anything about verbal abuse. We will find out if she proceeds with a lawsuit and the case is made public.

I think the keyword in there is "staff"--verbally abusing staff is a good way to get yourself kicked out of any non-emergency clinic (except maybe the VA, though they are beginning to be less tolerant of this). In the message she screenshotted she referred to trans flag as "like a Nazi flag" and made repeated references to trans people being violent and violating. I imagine that if she told a trans staff member that they were a violent Nazi for having that flag up, especially if she did it repeatedly, that could constitute harassment.

(As an aside, living in the South, more doctor's offices than not have explicit Christian signage and material in them [they are not religiously-affiliated systems, either]. As a gay Jew, that can be a slight yellow flag for me on multiple levels, but I don't say anything--I figure if the care I get is still good and not discriminatory, my doctor can have whatever ideological beliefs they want).

 

[PikminOC]

I think the keyword in there is "staff"--verbally abusing staff is a good way to get yourself kicked out of any non-emergency clinic (except maybe the VA, though they are beginning to be less tolerant of this). In the message she screenshotted she referred to trans flag as "like a Nazi flag" and made repeated references to trans people being violent and violating. I imagine that if she told a trans staff member that they were a violent Nazi for having that flag up, especially if she did it repeatedly, that could constitute harassment.

(As an aside, living in the South, more doctor's offices than not have explicit Christian signage and material in them [they are not religiously-affiliated systems, either]. As a gay Jew, that can be a slight yellow flag for me on multiple levels, but I don't say anything--I figure if the care I get is still good and not discriminatory, my doctor can have whatever ideological beliefs they want).

Where did you get the info "made repeated references to trans people being violent and violating."? Did she tell that to the hospital?

 

[futureapppsy2]

Where did you get the info "made repeated references to trans people being violent and violating."? Did she tell that to the hospital?

It's in the MyChart message from her, screenshotted in the article linked in the OP.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Everyone. But esp everyone at ohsu. Losing your PCP and all the ones there is being canceled from their clinic is losing privileges

No its not.

 

[PikminOC]

It's in the MyChart message from her, screenshotted in the article linked in the OP.

Are you referring to this as "made repeated references to trans people being violent and violating."?

 

[PikminOC]

No its not.

We can have different opinions
It's ok

 

[MateoGM416]

You're clearly trying to get someone to argue you with you about transgenderism and cancel culture that's completely irrelevant to the person being dismissed, which could have been for a multitude of reasons, not just those in a dailymail article. I sincerely hope nobody viewing this thread indulges you

 

[PikminOC]

You're clearly trying to get someone to argue you with you about transgenderism and cancel culture that's completely irrelevant to the person being dismissed, which could have been for a multitude of reasons, not just those in a dailymail article. I sincerely hope nobody viewing this thread indulges you

I posted another article. And you sound exactly like the type of person who doesn't want discussion.

And you're indulging me!

I posted the MyChart post. It doesn't match up with what people are saying.

 

[Wolvvs]

Because people who don't assimilate lose privileges. And this is OHSU. Patient says clinic barred her over transgender flag complaint; story goes viral

"Oregon Health & Science University – told her it’ll no longer treat her after she complained about its display of a transgender pride flag and made what it called “disrespectful and hurtful remarks” about the LGBTQ community and staff at OHSU’s Richmond Primary Care Clinic in Southeast Portland. The clinic is part of an OHSU network that offers gender-affirming care."

Define hateful in this context. I am guessing it's not agreeing. don't see anything about verbal abuse. We will find out if she proceeds with a lawsuit and the case is made public.

The comparison to a Nazi flag certainly isn't the most pleasant thing. She seems self aware enough to know whatever she did might be considered hurtful--and we have only her side of the story at this point, so we don't exactly know what she said. Reading the article, it sounds like the biggest issue was the phone conversation she had with the office staff; we have no idea what exactly happened during that call, and speculating about it isn't especially useful.

We do know that clinic is one that participates in the OHSU Transgender Health Program. The flag is just a symbol representing their commitment to caring for transgender individuals. This is similar to the way in which religious hospitals display religious iconography as a symbol of their commitment to providing care consistent with their mission. If she isn't comfortable with one of the core components of the clinic, it's unclear why she would be comfortable receiving care there at all, regardless of whether the flag is flying.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

We can have different opinions
It's ok

It's not different opinions, it's the definition of the word.

Patients in medical setting don't have privileges. That's a thing doctors have.

 

[PikminOC]

It's not different opinions, it's the definition of the word.

Patients in medical setting don't have privileges. That's a thing doctors have.

I think it's a privilege to be a patient of a practice

 

[PikminOC]

I think it's a privilege to be a patient of a practice

Not everyone can get a physician. The world is not that nice. My parents are from a third world country so I consider it a privilege.

 

[operaman]

Read her screenshot mychart message and wowza. Yeah I’d have probably dismissed her too even though I likely share many of her positions.

She clearly references many past messages to staff so I’m sure this was not the first one. I have no doubt she made a scene in person as well.

The one thing I won’t tolerate is any kind of abuse toward my staff. They work their tails off and are the lifeblood that keeps my practice going. So far the only patients Ive had to talk to got huffy and yelled at my front desk staff when I was running really behind, and I told them that simply wasn’t acceptable and that they should save it for me, the person whose fault it is for running behind. If someone made any kind of racist or sexist or any kind of threatening or harassing remark toward anyone I work with, they will need to find another ent. Period.

I do think the flag thing is a bit much - just your typical Portland virtue signaling. I think you can get a set that includes a trans flag, Ukrainian flag, BLM sign, and a “wear a mask” sign all in one!

As for me, I run one of the busiest and most popular gender affirming clinics in my area, am booked out for 6 months, and don’t have one single flag or sign anywhere. No virtue signals here, just excellent care.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I do think the flag thing is a bit much - just your typical Portland virtue signaling. I think you can get a set that includes a trans flag, Ukrainian flag, BLM sign, and a “wear a mask” sign all in one!

As for me, I run one of the busiest and most popular gender affirming clinics in my area, am booked out for 6 months, and don’t have one single flag or sign anywhere. No virtue signals here, just excellent care.

To be fair, research shows that a lot of LGBTQ patients do look at things like clinic signage, intake forms, language used by staff, etc., to try to discern if a provider/practice is likely to be affirming or not before disclosing or deciding not to disclose their gender identity and/or sexual orientation. Probably not an issue at gender clinics, of course, but definitely something that happens in other medical settings.

 

[operaman]

To be fair, research shows that a lot of LGBTQ patients do look at things like clinic signage, intake forms, language used by staff, etc., to try to discern if a provider/practice is likely to be affirming or not before disclosing or deciding not to disclose their gender identity and/or sexual orientation. Probably not an issue at gender clinics, of course, but definitely something that happens in other medical settings.

Yeah I just take care of too many diverse groups of people so I elect to go completely sans signage. I want my office to be a politically neutral place that’s just clean and boring and looks like a doctor’s office.

Word of mouth seems to have done a fine job getting people in the door so far. I guess I’ve also made some efforts in terms of staff education and training as well as getting the hospital to do simple things like changing restroom signage since the patient restrooms are single operator anyhow. So maybe we subtly give off the right vibe without being too preachy about it.

 

[PikminOC]

Read her screenshot mychart message and wowza. Yeah I’d have probably dismissed her too even though I likely share many of her positions.

She clearly references many past messages to staff so I’m sure this was not the first one. I have no doubt she made a scene in person as well.

The one thing I won’t tolerate is any kind of abuse toward my staff. They work their tails off and are the lifeblood that keeps my practice going. So far the only patients Ive had to talk to got huffy and yelled at my front desk staff when I was running really behind, and I told them that simply wasn’t acceptable and that they should save it for me, the person whose fault it is for running behind. If someone made any kind of racist or sexist or any kind of threatening or harassing remark toward anyone I work with, they will need to find another ent. Period.

I do think the flag thing is a bit much - just your typical Portland virtue signaling. I think you can get a set that includes a trans flag, Ukrainian flag, BLM sign, and a “wear a mask” sign all in one!

As for me, I run one of the busiest and most popular gender affirming clinics in my area, am booked out for 6 months, and don’t have one single flag or sign anywhere. No virtue signals here, just excellent care.

Yes you make money whether they like it or want to detransition. Just like the opioid prescribers who prescribe Suboxone too

You agree with her views and you run a gender clinic?

 

[operaman]

Yes you make money whether they like it or want to detransition. Just like the opioid prescribers who prescribe Suboxone too

You agree with her views and you run a gender clinic?

Yeah kinda weird isn’t it?!

Obviously I don’t do most of the gender surgeries as an ent, and I’m not smart enough to figure out hormones so my endo friends do that. But I’d say 98% of the patients I see personally are non surgical. We’re more of an academic practice so we only do adults and are very focused on providing good evidenced based care (which is hard when there’s not really much evidence).

It’s sad that the zeitgeist has grown so insane around this stuff. One side sees anything but blind affirmation as literal violence and the other sees any intervention as self mutilation.

I guess I land somewhere in between and try to provide humanizing care to a very challenging population. Most of the time surgery and hormone therapies are not the answer while other times they do seem to work, but sadly aren’t well studied at all. Personally I look forward to some real prospective data coming out of Europe in the next few years as they’ve statutorily banned GAC outside clinical trials. In the meantime I tread carefully and do my best with surgery being very rare - probably 1-2 per year if that.

 

[Med Ed]

Tl;dr:
-Patient repeatedly notes that a transgender flag in the clinic is "disrespectful" and "triggering" to her personally and demands it be removed.
-Clinic later dismisses patient for repeated "disrespectful and hurtful remarks" towards "the clinic community and staff."

She flaked around and found out.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Obviously it’s difficult to talk about this case without getting into some political side conversations, but please try to keep the discussion focused on this specific case without getting into a broader political discussion. If the thread gets derailed with political discourse it will be closed.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

So her opinion isn't valid?

She is welcome to have whatever opinions she likes. That's not the issue here.

This case seems rather straightforward:

1. The clinic is welcome to have whatever signage, flags, or decorations in their waiting room as long as they aren't illegal.
2. She expressed repeatedly that she was uncomfortable getting care there because of said flag/signage. The expressed opinions of the clinic clashed with her own. This happens.
3. She has no right to demand that the clinic change their waiting room appearance because it makes her uncomfortable. And the clinic is under no requirement to agree to her demands. If they did, what if someone else made the exact opposite demands based upon their opinion?
4. Nowhere does she suggest that her care was substandard due to her opinions.
5. Although she is welcome to her opinion in private, she is not welcome to blast it out to everyone listening.
6. She stated that she was uncomfortable getting care there. So they told her to get her care elsewhere.
7. There was no active medical issue they were addressing. The surgeon doing the mastectomy can't just drop her without a clear hand off of care to someone else. But this is her PCP office.

I would have given her 30 days of ongoing care, told her to find other arrangements after that.

If I had a patient who was very vocal about politics - on either side of the spectrum -- I'd do the same thing. Warn them first - tell them to keep their political views to themselves while at the office. Same if someone was routinely insulting to other patients in the office, or to office staff in general. It's not her viewpoint that's an issue. It's her repetitive need to let everybody know about it. And if the flag makes her uncomfortable, then she should just get her care elsewhere.

 

[DoctwoB]

With the usual caveat that we weren't there, people blaming the clinic seem disconnected from reality.

I've worked in several healthcare settings, private, academic, VA, etc. In all of them, we have put up with behavior that has been abusive, racist, sexist, and more, in a way that nobody should EVER have to deal with in performing the duties of their job. If people talked to their lawyer, accountant, plumber, etc in any way like many of them talked to healthcare professionals (clinic staff usually gets it worse than the MDs, but all take some), they would get dropped like a bad habit immediately. Partly we do this because we try to care for patients regardless of how big of an Ahole they are. Partly because it's a pain to fire people and ensure continuity of care. Partly because in many settings admin makes it near impossible to fire someone.

The only times I have seen a patient fired are in circumstances of concern for physical safety of clinic staff. And even that has been accommodated to an absurd degree with chaperones, security in room, etc.

So when an academic primary care DEPARTMENT fired a patient, god only knows how awful they were.

 

[operaman]

I kind of get the sense from the mychart messages there may have been a trans staff member to whom she was making offensive remarks as well. As I’ve noted above, if I had a trans staff member and anyone said anything to intentionally hurt or offend them, I’d bounce them in a skinny minute.

It seems that was our society grows more secular, we’re substituting politics for religion more and more and approaching it with the same level of zealotry. People on both sides really need to learn how to set aside political beliefs and just interact with others like a regular human being.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Real caption: “Person who hates rainbows can’t see doctor because free-market.”

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I haven't heard anyone mention a medical reason for bizarre behavior. Liver tx, so encephalopathy? Immunosuppresants, I believe can alter mental status also. Just because someone looks ok, doesnt mean they have both oars in the water. Everyone wants to lunge at the racist, sexist, homophobic comments and not consider a medical cause. It appears we have been conditioned to respond this way. I'm not condoning her comments in any way, just another POV and maybe these issues should be looked into.

 

[LucidSplash]

I haven't heard anyone mention a medical reason for bizarre behavior. Liver tx, so encephalopathy? Immunosuppresants, I believe can alter mental status also. Just because someone looks ok, doesnt mean they have both oars in the water. Everyone wants to lunge at the racist, sexist, homophobic comments and not consider a medical cause. It appears we have been conditioned to respond this way. I'm not condoning her comments in any way, just another POV and maybe these issues should be looked into.

Patients don’t get dismissed for 1-off behaviors unless overtly violent or aggregious, or for behaviors with a clear reversible medical condition. While we don’t know the entire situation, I have been in enough of these situations myself as a physician to be willing to give the clinic the benefit of the doubt that this came after multiple attempts to correct the behavior AND to treat any medical cause.

Attempts to condemn the clinic here are misplaced and likely come from people who have not been in these situations themselves. Doctors aren’t perfect but there is enough information here to read between the lines and recognize a patient who was dismissed for repeatedly harassing staff and or patients. We have a duty to provide care but we also have a right to a safe and protected work environment. At the very least, sending multiple MyChart messages about decor or signage is not an appropriate use of the tool. Condemning a policy of safety for ALL patients because you might disagree or dislike their person or persona is not appropriate.