Anesthesiologist's advice please: Would you have rather been a CRNA?

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Have seen this poster be helpful to others on the Pre-MD forum, not a CRNA troll.

Having said that, :corny:

To the OP: are you applying to MD school this cycle, i.e. next month? Have you applied the MD route prior without success?

I'm not the anesthesiologist you're wanting advice from, but am curious to know your exact situation. Good luck either way you choose...

: )

D712
 
First and foremost, I wanted to be a physician. So absolutely not.

Do you want to be a nurse, or do you want to be a physician?

Yes if CRNA incomes continue as they are (which I don't believe they will), then financially it may be better to pursue that road. Even with that income, how would you feel about yourself knowing all along that you could have completed medical training? Even with all the negatives the fact that I accomplished my goal of becoming a physician is EXTREMELY satisfying.

And by the way, I refrained from using the word "doctor" to describe my job. Seems like everyone and their sister can become a doctor nowadays. Something else to think about.
 
amygdaloideum said:
I have not applied the MD route, please don't make assumptions.

If I wanted the advice of a pre-medical student I would have posted on a pre-medical forum, thanks for your input.
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Assumptions? Wow, no assumptions were made.
What an *****HOLE
 
Amyggie,

I was actually sticking up for you here. And being playful at same time.

What I was getting at were, perhaps, some of your motivations. But I think the MDs on this board will help guide you.

The history behind my initial reply is that often CRNA trolls come here to play games and ask dubious questions. Etc etc.

Note also: re SDN, be careful with double posting. I understand the audience is different, but one may get closed, who knows.

No offense taken!
D712
 
Just do what you want to do. If you are satisfied with your job and excited to go into work every morning, then everything else will fall into place. If you start making decisions based on money and an unknown future, you will be chasing your tail your entire life. Based on your statements being a nurse and having to answer to a doctor (whether it be a physician anesthesiologist or a surgeon for all of those "independant" CRNA's 🙄) would equal you kicking yourself for your decision.

I know there are a lot of residents/med students who are miserable right now because they chose medicine for the "money". Believe me, if you are in it for the money then I would agree the future does look bleak.
 
I knew that I wanted to be a physician way before I knew I wanted to be an anesthesiologist. Towards the end of my junior year in high school, I decided once and for all that I wanted to be a physician. When I got to college, I hit the ground running and worked extremely hard every semester doing all the "right things" in order to get myself into medical school.

Once I got to medical school, I thought I wanted to be either a surgeon or a pediatrician. My displeasure with gross anatomy quickly eliminated surgery. During my pediatrics clerkship I learned that pediatrics was much less about playing with kids and more about dealing with unreasonable parents.

During my first year of medical school, our medical ethics class was taught by an anesthesiologist. He would tell us stories about clinical/ethical scenarios from his experience in the operating room. I was greatly intrigued about anesthesia, but wasn't sure that it was for me.

After my second year of medical school, I thought I wanted to do internal medicine. I had visions of interacting with pleasant patients, doing histories and physicals, etc. The first patient they gave me on my medicine clerkship was a comatose gentleman shipped in from the nursing home. I quickly learned that hospital based internal medicine was a constant struggle to move patients from the nursing home to the hospital and back again. Office based internal medicine isn't much better. I knew that anesthesia was a much better field for me.

In regards to the original poster, she certainly has the stats/brainpower to make it as a physician, but she doesn't have the passion. The fact that she is even contemplating CRNA school over medical school speaks for itself. My advice for her is to get nursing/CRNA training, make a good living as a CRNA and leave medical school for those who want to become physicians more than anything else.
 
The fact that you're even asking this question means you should pursue the CRNA route. We don't need another physician like you.
 
gaspasser2004 said:
In regards to the original poster, she certainly has the stats/brainpower to make it as a physician, but she doesn't have the passion. The fact that she is even contemplating CRNA school over medical school speaks for itself. My advice for her is to get nursing/CRNA training, make a good living as a CRNA and leave medical school for those who want to become physicians more than anything else.
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Consigliere said:
The fact that you're even asking this question means you should pursue the CRNA route. We don't need another physician like you.
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With all due respect to the above posters, who certainly have me beat with many years of medical and life experience, I kinda disagree that the questioning alone should preclude the OP from being a doctor.

Lots of people (doctors and otherwise) have many interests in life. I think that's a good thing. In fact, I think it's essential to being a happy person. So, it's not unreasonable to look at the many commitments being a doctor demands of you (as best you can from the outside) and weighing if it's the right decision for you.

Even more, I think it's almost essential to have this debate before jumping in with both feet. That way, you can stare a 30 hour shift in the face and say, "This is gonna suck. But I knew I'd have some of these when I signed up. So let's get it done."

I spend a lot of time shadowing PAs and MDs before applying to med school. I spent a lot of time thinking about it. Eventually I decided I wanted to go the MD route. It was hard choice because either path has sacrifices, both career-wise and family/life-wise.

To the OP, try to find out as best you can the set of demands that being a doctor requires. If you're willing to make those sacrifices for what you want, go for it. That said, there are lots of things in life that can make a person happy.
 
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amygdaloideum said:
Thank you for your advice. My family is of strict Christian, Palestinian descent, they have made every decision for me my entire life including my undergraduate major. I have graduated, left home and I support myself. I take half the pay I could be making as an RN to work in medical research because this is my devotion and this is how badly I want to do academic medicine.

For them a female should be in the house until they marry. My parents won't accept me until I choose nursing because a female should have "a family" and have "an accommodating profession", etc. This is what the females in the family have done before me.

They don't talk to me anymore and when they do they berate me about becoming a nurse. They don't understand why I am committed to research. They don't understand why I am not a nurse.

These are the facts. This is why I'm contemplating it. These are their rationales. I want them to accept me but at the same time I want to pursue my calling.
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Haven't you just answered your own question? If you're that dedicated, it seems clear that you should go for the MD. It seems clear it's what you really want, but your coming to terms with the family consequences this decision will hold for you.

It seems likely to me that you will displease your family regardless of MD/non-MD. You don't intend to become a stay-at-home mom when you get married (and least it seems that way from your writing, not trying to say you should or shouldn't.) Isn't that what they want? So, going the CRNA route and continuing to work will be just as vexing as getting your MD, it would seem. Am I off-base here?
 
The verbal portion of the MCAT requires the same comprehension skills as the bio and phys sciences. The vision isn't to blame. Remember that when studying for this time coming up.

CRNA vs MD:

Do you want to be a technician (nurse) or an expert? (MD)

That's the first question.

Then go into financials and work required. CRNA is a far easier route, and much faster to $ than MD. Money overall may or may not equal out, but the MD is ahead for now.

amygdaloideum said:
Ok, thanks for the information. I'm happy I did not offend anyone.

Here are the basics:

I discovered my passion for medicine later in college and did not take the MCAT until 3 months prior to graduating. I was an exceptional student that completed both the BSN and Pre-Med curriculums at a top university. I never ran into any barriers until I took the MCAT in 2008 and did poorly on the verbal segment. I found out afterward I had an undiagnosed vision problem: convergence insufficiency and accommodative insufficiency.

Two years later (I am now 24), I have the option to repeat the MCAT after going through vision therapy for my eyes, or I could give up now and pursue the CRNA track, knowing I will be able to easily raise a family with this lifestyle. Encountering this difficulty has caused me to try to find an answer to the question that I was too busy to answer before: is medicine truly my calling?


I know, ultimately, that if it is in my heart to be a physician, and I give up now and pursue another career, I will really be unhappy later on.

I just wanted to hear from Anesthesiologists who were already done and try to discover whether they feel this fulfillment that I hope to feel when all is said and done before I put in all the effort required to get there.
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When I said this...

doctor712 said:
Amyggie...What I was getting at were, perhaps, some of your motivations...
D712
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I was trying to get at things like this...

amygdaloideum said:
Thank you for your advice. My family is of strict Christian, Palestinian descent, they have made every decision for me my entire life including my undergraduate major....For them a female should be in the house until they marry. My parents won't accept me until I choose nursing because a female should have "a family" and have "an accommodating profession", etc. This is what the females in the family have done before me. They don't talk to me anymore and when they do they berate me about becoming a nurse. They don't understand why I am committed to research. They don't understand why I am not a nurse. These are the facts. This is why I'm contemplating it. These are their rationales. I want them to accept me but at the same time I want to pursue my calling. I have chosen medicine over my own family. I have no support left but my own drive. If this isn't passion I don't know what is, I'm only human.
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Because THIS makes me ill...

GoodmanBrown said:
Isn't that what they want? So, going the CRNA route and continuing to work will be just as vexing as getting your MD, it would seem. Am I off-base here?
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In sum, Original Poster, I've written off my family, and been written off, for plenty of reasons. I don't mean this as a comment on your family, or their beliefs, but I learned a wonderful lesson about 20 years ago, when I was a little younger than you, 16. F@$*K what your family wants you to do. When they have to walk in your shoes, then they can decide. I don't mean to upturn 500 years of your family's culture, but YOU SHOULD REALLY UPTURN 500 years of your family's culture. Whether you become a doc, or a garbage woman.

I commend you for choosing your passion over their antiquated system of beliefs that they own you, run you, choose for you, and should mold you to do what others (with vaginas, surely not men) have done in your family prior to you.

HAVING SAID THAT, you really need to get your mind clear of your family's wishes, I mean really clear, the kinda of clear that doesn't come about in 15 minutes on SDN, and decide what YOU want without the pressures and burdens of your family. For all I know, you just want to prove them wrong. Whether you're aware of it or not. I'm not trying to write up a psych case, but you need to discover what's going on here, because a lot is going on. The other poster's story of discovering a specialty in med school (four times over) is really the very typical case. Few peeps out there like Goodman and myself really "THINK" we know what we want to do before day 1. It's rare, not the norm. And we might end up in Intvl Rads and Ob/Gyn for all we know (help me now).

Because, as has been said before, IF you choose the MD profession for the wrong reason, when you are a CA-3 or a Attending-20, or an M-3 and are into hour 31 of your shift, after month 1 of the rotation, after year 2 of the program, after year 1's year long helacious rote memory mind-F#&$ (so I hear), then and only then will you know TRUE REGRET. I'd say, forget anesthesia and CRNA stuff for now. Get your hands dirty, publish, go to clinic, spend hours (I've spent about 500 with anesthesia to date) in the OR, ER, PEDS office, etc etc, to see IF MEDICINE IS REALLY FOR YOU. If, and only if, you have done this for 2-3 years (and you might already have), then sit down and think: am I doing this to mindF*##K mom and dad. Now isn't the time for denial. Now is the time to have people, including yourself, play devil's advocate, and make CERTAIN that this is what you want - with all the information you can have at your hand.

That's the best any of us premeds can do. And oh, be careful about calling medicine and anesthesia a "calling" on here, you might find yourself fighting with peeps who make your mom and dad look like Mother Theresa. 🙂 JUUUUUUUUST KIDDING!

That's my dos centavos.

D712
 
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And notice how Coastie didn't say A WORD about your parents in his post. Couldn't have said it better myself:

MOM AND DAD shouldn't be involved in this equation. Period.

Well put, Coastie.
 
doctor712 said:
HAVING SAID THAT, you really need to get your mind clear of your family's wishes, I mean really clear, the kinda of clear that doesn't come about in 15 minutes on SDN, and decide what YOU want without the pressures and burdens of your family. For all I know, you just want to prove them wrong. Whether you're aware of it or not. I'm not trying to write up a psych case, but you need to discover what's going on here, because a lot is going on. The other poster's story of discovering a specialty in med school (four times over) is really the very typical case. Few peeps out there like Goodman and myself really "THINK" we know what we want to do before day 1. It's rare, not the norm. And we might end up in Intvl Rads and Ob/Gyn for all we know (help me now).

Because, as has been said before, IF you choose the MD profession for the wrong reason, when you are a CA-3 or a Attending-20, or an M-3 and are into hour 31 of your shift, after month 1 of the rotation, after year 2 of the program, after year 1's year long helacious rote memory mind-F#&$ (so I hear), then and only then will you know TRUE REGRET. I'd say, forget anesthesia and CRNA stuff for now. Get your hands dirty, publish, go to clinic, spend hours (I've spent about 500 with anesthesia to date) in the OR, ER, PEDS office, etc etc, to see IF MEDICINE IS REALLY FOR YOU. If, and only if, you have done this for 2-3 years (and you might already have), then sit down and think: am I doing this to mindF*##K mom and dad. Now isn't the time for denial. Now is the time to have people, including yourself, play devil's advocate, and make CERTAIN that this is what you want - with all the information you can have at your hand.

That's the best any of us premeds can do. And oh, be careful about calling medicine and anesthesia a "calling" on here, you might find yourself fighting with peeps who make your mom and dad look like Mother Theresa. 🙂 JUUUUUUUUST KIDDING!

That's my dos centavos.

D712
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+1 👍

Wise words. I call interventional rads! 😛
 
amygdaloideum said:
I do agree the thread should have been titled (What would you do in my situation without regard to any other extenuating circumstances?)


Since this query is posted on this forum does not mean I decided I wanted to be an Anesthesiologist. The post was merely intended for anesthesiologists to comment in regards to the CRNA profession as an option for someone who has not yet begun any graduate study.


My interest in medicine precedes my interest in any particular specialty. In my free reading time I read Cardiology articles more than any other specialty and my research focus is not in anesthesiology. I will not know what I am interested in until much later. The ridgidity of a midlevel profession is very unattractive. I personally will not choose a profession because it's easier. A sense of achievement (for me personally) is most important.

In regards to salary, money should obviously not be anyone’s motivating factor to pursue any career. I do not think CRNA salary will sustain its peak. As individuals enter the profession and AA gains national recognition as a mid-level profession, the demand and salary will elastically decline.


The MD is capable of a broader array of academic research, where a mid-level professional is trained for a specific function, thus I do agree CNRA are like the technicians of Anesthesiology. Each have their function. MD obviously has greater autonomy and expertise in any field.
I feel it is normal, by human nature to express contemplation between professions, particularly with other extenuating circumstances.




I do appreciate the objective comments received from physicians.


Thank you for everyone's posts and opinions, best of luck.
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I couldn't have said it better myself.

QFT. ie quoted for truth
 
amygdaloideum said:
Thank you for everyone's posts and opinions, best of luck.
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You'll get the best advice from nurses who've gone on to become physicians. The ones I know are glad they made the decision. There are some CRNAs who've put in the work to become anesthesiologists. From what I know they're happy with their decision.

I can tell you, based on your words in this thread, I think you'll be happy with a career as a physician. You have a mind that craves knowledge. As for your family, all I can do is offer my condolences. It's tough when you don't get support in life to follow your dreams and aspirations. I wish you luck. 👍
 
helloooo OP.

don't get discourage, internet forums are often taken out of context here and injected with emotions! (craziness 😀) don't take it too seriously OP.

thick skin, strong mind, great sense of humor, don't let other people emotion get to ya 🙂 🙂 🙂

southpaw is correct, find a CRNA who went on to be an MD and get his/her advice, I personally know a couple. it is as different as night and day.... basically.."you don't know what you don't know".

not being disrespectful to the mid-level positions, but the truth is that the breadth of knowledge + physical and mental stamina obtain during medical school is GI-normous. ....not to mention residency...**

... the feeling that I felt on my M.D. graduation day will go to my grave as one of the best day of my life...

🙂

why aim for a ceiling lantern when you can reach for the stars?
 
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I think if you were 100% sure you wanted to just do anesthesia and didn't have a problem with "what-could-have-beens," I could see going the CRNA route. Personally, I wasn't sure I wanted to do anesthesia when I started medical school, and there was a part of me that didn't want to be wondering 30 years from now if I could have been a doctor. And even though I learned a crap-ton of information that I'll never use again, I also feel like all of my learning/experiences will only make me that much better capable of caring for patients as an anesthesiologist.

Also, Eta was banned? What do you think was the straw that broke the camel's back? The beaver thread over in the lounge? The KKK pronouncement?

Wait, where's my tiny violin? Oh there it is --> +pity+
 
I think Coastie makes a good point regarding the financial aspects of your decision.

I think you are looking two steps ahead. The questions you should first consider are: "Can I get into medical school?" And, if so, "Do I want to be a physician or a nurse?"

Once you are in Med school or Nursing school, you may even find something that you enjoy more than anesthesia.

All that being said, a simple answer to the original post: I enjoy being a physican (MD). I would not have rather been a CRNA.

Best of luck to you, amygdaloideum!
 
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Imagine the anesthesiologist and the CRNA are two pilots.

With anesthesiology training you can fly like this

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXj65a0490Y&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

the best you can hope for by being a CRNA is this:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHu9IUrzZGU&NR=1[/YOUTUBE]
 
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ProRealDoc said:
Imagine the anesthesiologist and the CRNA are two pilots.

With anesthesiology training you can fly like this

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXj65a0490Y&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]

the best you can hope for by being a CRNA is this:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHu9IUrzZGU&NR=1[/YOUTUBE]
Click to expand...


Except the CRNA would be flying a cessna at best. In clear skies. On a simulator. :laugh::laugh:
 
gaspasser2004 said:
but she doesn't have the passion. The fact that she is even contemplating CRNA school over medical school speaks for itself. My advice for her is to get nursing/CRNA training, make a good living as a CRNA and leave medical school for those who want to become physicians more than anything else.
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well put! It will be tough to get through those very very dark and lonely days in medical school if you dont have the passion. And dark and lonely they get. If you dont have the passion you will quit like many others.

I personally never ever contemplated being a nurse ever. And knowing what I know now about the philosophy of nurses, how they behave in the clinical arena, their motivations and their self esteem, there is absolutely no way I would even consider being a nurse. WOuld rather work at the car wash.

Going the CRNA route is probably 100 times easier( emotionally and level of difficulty) than going to medical school and anesthesiology residency route.
 
This question is a joke, right? The level of dedication, knowledge, and precision one needs to become an anesthesiologist is 10x more than the best CRNA? Have you looked at the undergrad courses nurses take? My 16 yr old nephew takes the same courses at his AP classes. Forget about anything after that. Nursing school is a joke. CRNA training is highly variable. Most don't know basic airway mgmt once they come out? I asked a CRNA once about the anatomy of the larynx...she asked what the larynx was? No kidding.This was a 20+ yr veteran.

Of course if you are not strong enough to gain entrance to medical school, then you can become anything else you want. Also, going to medical school means you are a PHYSICIAN and can practice MEDICINE.
 
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WholeLottaGame7 said:
I think if you were 100% sure you wanted to just do anesthesia and didn't have a problem with "what-could-have-beens," I could see going the CRNA route. Personally, I wasn't sure I wanted to do anesthesia when I started medical school, and there was a part of me that didn't want to be wondering 30 years from now if I could have been a doctor. And even though I learned a crap-ton of information that I'll never use again, I also feel like all of my learning/experiences will only make me that much better capable of caring for patients as an anesthesiologist.

Also, Eta was banned? What do you think was the straw that broke the camel's back? The beaver thread over in the lounge? The KKK pronouncement?

Wait, where's my tiny violin? Oh there it is --> +pity+
Click to expand...

I as well am glad the crazy woman is gone. Bet there's more people who agree. She thought she had an answer to everything and had a smart ass answer/comment to everything. Bye Bye luv, don't let the internet door hit you on the way out.
 
amygdaloideum said:
I am (BSN/Pre-Medical) graduate and at the bifurcation between the pursuit of medicine or pursuit of CRNA.

I would like advice from an Anesthesiologist's perspective who can rationally give their opinion of these two different career options.

For a female BSN graduate (with double major ) who has completed pre-medical requirements from top university with a >3.9 GPA, I'm looking for advice on what you would do in my shoes.

I am currently doing research, contemplating my options to pursue the MD route or pusure the CRNA route.

If you were to go back and have the option to complete a CRNA program or pursue medical school, which would you choose?
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Judging from the paucity of your posts here on SDN, which is a REAL doctor forum, I'm rationally cautious, since you may be, and probably are, a TROLL.

So I'll give you the PARTY LINE,

Slim.

THERE IS ONLY ONE TRUTH.

Feel better?

BTW I think your initial post is

FULL OF S H IT.

No matter, tho.

Keep trying.

WEEDED OUT is what I sense.
 
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I'm just getting attacked here at all angles and it's really, not constructive nor what I came here for.

God (or whatever you believe in), has blessed everyone here with an amazing gift.

I hope you will use it to help pre-meds who aspire to be like you succeed and not tear them down.


Good luck & God bless.


Please moderator, delete and/or close the thread.
 
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I have had my eye on this thread for a while and am now closing it per the OP request.

We have a long history of trolls causing problems on this forum so all of us are a bit wary whenever CRNA threads pop up.
 
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