Anesthesiology and Social Media
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To add to this, the alphabet soup is part of how they try to disguise their job roles to others, including patients. We shouldn't be helping by calling them CRNAs, PAs, and CNPs because patients do not know what these are. Call them nurse anesthesists, physician assistants, and nurse practitioners. I also think it undermines our appearance when anesthesiologists supervise nurse anesthetists rather than direct them. Saying you supervise them implies that they make the decisions and do everything and you're just the second set of hands for when things get out of control.
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I feel like this is the battle that is very difficult to win for anesthesiologists. The general public sympathize and is overly gracious to the nursing profession as a whole. It's hard to even start a productive conversation if there is even a slight hint of criticism toward the nurses. Nobody knows these people make $25-26/hour working 36 hours a week straight out of nursing school. Some travel nurses make upwards of $80-100/ hour. As a medical student heading into anesthesiology, I realize that I have my work cut out for me in the future.
I watched the BoltSRNA's video posted by BLADE this morning and this guy is a major douchecanoe. Toward the end of his video, he basically dismissed the ICU experience that anesthesiologists get during their intern year "they did a little bit of that during their intern year, but of course they were baby doctors then, they are not going to retain all of that information from that earlier point in their career when they were just learning how to put one foot in front of the other." Then he proceeded to equate his last year of NURSING school shadowing an ICU nurse to the ICU experience of an intern in the comment section lol.
I watched the BoltSRNA's video posted by BLADE this morning and this guy is a major douchecanoe. Toward the end of his video, he basically dismissed the ICU experience that anesthesiologists get during their intern year "they did a little bit of that during their intern year, but of course they were baby doctors then, they are not going to retain all of that information from that earlier point in their career when they were just learning how to put one foot in front of the other." Then he proceeded to equate his last year of NURSING school shadowing an ICU nurse to the ICU experience of an intern in the comment section lol.
Sigh. I don’t remember much from my intern ICU rotation to be fair, but we all have to do 4 more and 1 in fellowship that has provided plenty of valuable information. Geesh.
I agree. I think the critical care fellowship is key for any anesthesiologist planning on working much in the ICU after residency.
I agree. I am not arguing that a General Anesthesiologist is qualified to work as an Intensivist right out of residency. The point I am trying to make is that the douchebag's argument is "your ICU rotation during intern year don't count but yeah every seconds of my 2 years of being an ICU nurse make me a better anesthetist."
I can no longer draw out the TCA cycle or the complement cascade that I learned during 1st year either but if I sit down and do a 15 minutes review, I am sure it all will come back to me.
It won't be easy but I feel like we're moving in the right direction. I seem to recall a time on these forums when anesthesiologists were wishy-washy about their feelings toward CRNAs. Physicians seem to be catching on to CRNAs/NPs being a threat and that every step forward for them is a step backward for us because it undervalues our training. Their whole position is "I can do what they do for a fraction of the training and debt." If that's true then that makes them smarter than us, but we all know it's not. I've written my congressman more times than I ever thought I'd have to as a medical student to prove that point, but the problem is convincing the public.
I've said before that one of the main issue with this field is that patients don't know you're doctors. The issue of complications from surgery being mismanaged by CRNAs has also been brought up. One way to help the cause would be a simple pre-op consult with patients allowing them to chose between an anesthesiologist or a CRNA to be in the room during surgery. I promise you most patients will choose a doctor to preside over their surgery. The benefits are two-fold, in that they educate patients that anesthesiologists are doctors and convince the hospital admin that anesthesiologists are an undervalued resource and in demand.
Other things like refusing to work with or train CRNAs would obviously send the right message too but I understand that can be unrealistic for some of you.
You forgot, he once “did” a TEE on a “decelerating” patient. Give the guy some credit! (BTW, if in fact he’s telling the truth that a cardiac anesthesiologist was showing/teaching him tee, well, shame on the physician.)
Coming from a former ICU nurse perspective, I can tell you there is a BIG difference between monitoring and taking care of 2 critical patients 3 days a week vs. medically managing an entire ICU of patients 6 days a week... But I know this having seen both sides where very few have. I think for the future of anesthesiology, we need to cement our feet into fellowships like critical care, pediatrics, CT, and pain management.
I dunno how I feel about making YouTube videos to compete with CRNAs. I don't see surgeons or cardiologists making videos asking for acknowledgement. I've never heard of surgeon or internist appreciation week (maybe it exists, who knows). Doesn't anyone else feel like anesthesiologist appreciation week or making YouTube videos just makes us on the same level as advanced practice nurses and just drags us down? I'm not saying we don't need to demonstrate our worth, but isn't there a way to do it that's more doctorly and professional?
Wesley? Kansas Heart? I used to work for the demon that is Via Christi/Ascension and there's no way on Earth I would ever be able to imagine them shelling out money for a chef at any of the VC hospitals.
Meh.
He’s probably claiming someone “showed him” when in reality he was doing exactly what the CRNAs did when I was in training- stared over my shoulder while I performed an exam, whining like a bunch of toddlers that they never get to touch the echo probe.
Once when this scenario was playing out, I guess my attending had enough and looked at one square in the face and said “CRNAs don’t have the background needed to properly interpret what they’re seeing, which is why this skill is reserved for the residents and fellows”.
At our place, we have lots of CRNAs/SRNAs. They are invited to our Grand Rounds and weekly conferences where the residents and CRNAs are encouraged to sit together in the front. We are both assigned preops sometimes for the following day. We give each other breaks at times and one may jump in and start your extra periph line or aline if you're tied up managing airway or vice versa. In their final year of training, they even take the weekend call at the hospital with us and we are encouraged to work as a team. This is at a well respected large academic university hospital, don't be fooled into thinking this just a rare case. We have so many ORs and interesting cases that while they don't get the most advanced (thank God) they still get in on some rare and complex cases. As for procedures we luckily get first dibs on blocks, epidurals, spinals, alines, CVLs but if there is an extra one they get those too. The attendings love to teach and they don't mind pimping them and teaching them just like us. At first, I made some comments that they were residents and why were they getting all that training and another resident told me they will tattle on the facility and cause trouble if the attendings don't treat them with "equality". Things are so politically correct today I guess nobody wants to rock the boat.
As for the TEE. I've spoken to the SRNAs many times and they do have specific rotations where they get block training, another where they just do cardiothoracic cases and insert their own CVLs, pediatric rotations and OB rotations where they do tons of epidurals. If this BOLT SRNA is saying he manages the TEE solo then I'd call him a liar but a student did mention that the cardiac anesthesiologist will teach them what they're doing with it if they push for it. We've allowed another profession to come in and get full training in our field and now try to push us out.
I agree that fellowships seem to be the only safe road ahead for us. Although, in one of these videos that guy mentioned how some of the doctorate CRNA are doing "fellowships" in pain management and getting their NP license so they can manage patients in the ICU in rural places. Apparently, their next step is coming after our d*mn fellowship positions.
It's okay, with this body and flexibility I'm gonna find a way to pay off these loans. 😉
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I’ve looked into these nurse anesthetist pain “fellowships.”. One program in particular charges $44k for a 12-month course in interventional pain management consisting of a 7-month online curriculum, 3 months of hands-on training in a sim lab and on cadavers with a few clinical weeks in an actual hospital. Cadavers?! wtf
Check out the DNAP curriculum if you want another good laugh.
I am.... not happy.
SMH
I don't understand how we have come to this, where people take short cuts and make more money than the people that they demand free training from. "Tattle on faculty" at an academic center, what a joke. They don't pay people enough for them to deal with that crap. I don't understand why they aren't happy with their lot. They get paid incredibly well for nice flexible hours.
If they paid competitive wages to their anesthesiologists and nurse anesthetists, none of these problems would be a major issue.
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Doctors on plane save life with makeshift ventilator | Daily Mail Online
I'm just getting to that point in residency where i feel the majority of the time I'm really good at what I do (vs CA1/CA2 year where it was definitely the minority) - but then reading this article i realize that I have so much more room to grow. This article is great and circulating around my social media.
I'm just getting to that point in residency where i feel the majority of the time I'm really good at what I do (vs CA1/CA2 year where it was definitely the minority) - but then reading this article i realize that I have so much more room to grow. This article is great and circulating around my social media.
One of the reasons why I couldn’t finish my program. Seriously, I felt like an imposter. The long white coat, the DNP so we can be “doctors”, and drinking the kool-aid trying to fool myself into believing I would sleep at night knowing I was a rockstar. It’s amazing what the EGO will drive a man to do....lol
Yes, increasing length of training is really going to attract more and more top med students to the field. What kind of logic is this? There's going to be no better way to destroy the field than to make it take longer to get out and actually practice and pay off our increasing debt burden. The whole point of people going the CRNA route is because it's faster and easier. This idea only shifts the balance MORE THAT WAY.
It needs to stop here and now.
It needs to stop here and now.
Perfect for the millennial mentality....
Our training is already longer and more in depth. Widening the gap probably won't convince anyone who isn't already convinced of that.
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deleted643396
Is that the name for the generation that is saddled with boomer debt and paying for boomer entitlements?
I'm still wrapping my head around the number of nurses that convince themselves that taking care of and carrying out orders on a patient is anywhere close to the same thing as managing them. Never mind that experience is only as good as the foundation of education on which it is built.
I've got 3 years experience as a B.S. prepared paramedic. So what? It's useful, but it certainly doesn't compare to physician education or experience.
I've got 3 years experience as a B.S. prepared paramedic. So what? It's useful, but it certainly doesn't compare to physician education or experience.
The alphabet soup comment reminds of two things which are kinda related.
The first is a comedian who talks about how people talk about what college they went to. The ones who went to to more prestigious colleges can do it in one word (Harvard, Yale, Brown, Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt, John-Hopkins (okay that one is two words but you get the point). While those who are other end of the spectrum are, "Well I plan on saving some money this year going to CC, then transfer in the state school for the remainder....).
The second relates to Journals, almost the same thing the higher impact journals get away with shorter journals.
Now, I'm not saying Md/Ph. d, (Fellow of XXXXXX Abbrev) can't be on a white coat. But, the whole BSN, RN, CRNA, is getting kinda silly.
The first is a comedian who talks about how people talk about what college they went to. The ones who went to to more prestigious colleges can do it in one word (Harvard, Yale, Brown, Duke, Emory, Vanderbilt, John-Hopkins (okay that one is two words but you get the point). While those who are other end of the spectrum are, "Well I plan on saving some money this year going to CC, then transfer in the state school for the remainder....).
The second relates to Journals, almost the same thing the higher impact journals get away with shorter journals.
Now, I'm not saying Md/Ph. d, (Fellow of XXXXXX Abbrev) can't be on a white coat. But, the whole BSN, RN, CRNA, is getting kinda silly.
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That article isn't really clear about what they did. I figure they didn't have a way to deliver PPV, so they rigged the non-rebreather from the ceiling into one?
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deleted87051
If you say Hopkins people get the jist.
HaHa! I'm sure glad I'm not the only one thought this bolt guy was a total douche. From watching his vids and reading his comments, he truly believes he'll open up his OWN practice once he graduates..."I'll be a millionaire in no time." LOL!!!
btw - I like your vids flightMD. Even though I'm an outsider here (soon to be CRNA), I can't tell you guys how much I appreciate all the info everyone provides here, especially Blades and his case studies. Also, I'm in no way trying to act like a "doctor" or take anyone's job. I respect you guys immensly and have learned so much. The people over at ALLNURSES and NURSEAnesthesia are complete blowtards and need to show respect for what you guys do IMHO.
Glad I finally decided to join after lurking here for years.
