Anesthesiology Has Biggest Increase In Residency Applicants Per Program Of All Specialities!!!!

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It's definitely not for me. But, it's not surprising to see applicants rushing into Anesthesia and probably more in the future despite the gloom and doom mantra on this board. EM and Anesthesiology are becoming more competitive bc when you're done, you're done. You don't get called to the hospital on your off time unless you're in a bad setup.


You may be “done when you’re done” at Kaiser or in academics but the vast majority of anesthesiologists don’t work in those settings. I may have a scheduled lineup until 2 or 5 or whatever. But the reality is that if you work in a busy practice where you can actually make a lot of money, then you are there until all the scheduled cases, addons, and emergencies are done. There is no fixed end time and more often than not you go home later than the schedule suggests on the day before. Surgeons can’t do surgery without anesthesia. We are here to serve them so their lifestyle is our lifestyle.
 
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Everyone on here only bitches and moans and says things get more competitive and anesthesia sucks. Honestly everyone in this whole forum should get their damn license revoked and flip burgers at waffle house and really have some **** to bitch about. If you are a doctor you got to man up and be a winner. No one wants to listen to losers who bitch and moan. Anesthesia is a great specialty and so is getting to be a doctor.

Agree anesthesia is an awesome specialty but it is not a lifestyle specialty.
 
What do you mean "anymore"? Implying that it was harder or more intelligence based "back in the day"? Objective med school admission standards (MCAT and GPA scores) are higher now than they have ever been in the past. It's no debate med school was easier to get into 20+ yrs ago than it is today both academically and from a supplementary CV standpoint. I think perhaps a more applicable statement might be that high IQ/academic intellect does not imply common sense/practical intellect (which plenty of doctors tend to lack).
This particular poster thinks he is one of the smartest individuals in the world. Maybe he is. Who knows! To say med students are not smart (IQ-wise) compared to the average population is assassin. In all honesty, I thought the same thing too until I started dealing regularly with average population.
 
Derm fits the bill in term of both lifestyle and $$$ right out of residency. Rad onc is also up there if one can get a job. Ophthal is good as well, but the starting starting can be extremely low.

For psych and FM/IM outpatient, you will get the lifestyle but you won't get the $$$$ (350k+/yr).
 
Derm fits the bill in term of both lifestyle and $$$ right out of residency. Rad onc is also up there if one can get a job. Ophthal is good as well, but the starting starting can be extremely low.

For psych and FM/IM outpatient, you will get the lifestyle but you won't get the $$$$ (350k+/yr).

But the money is similar to a daytime only anesthesia job.
 
Everyone on here only bitches and moans and says things get more competitive and anesthesia sucks. Honestly everyone in this whole forum should get their damn license revoked and flip burgers at waffle house and really have some **** to bitch about. If you are a doctor you got to man up and be a winner. No one wants to listen to losers who bitch and moan. Anesthesia is a great specialty and so is getting to be a doctor. It's amazing for me to think any posters here are actually equipped to effectively lead in a healthcare setting with how poor their outlook is. No one wants to follow that type of mentality.
I would make a uneducated guess that many of the doom and gloomers and “anesthesia sucks” people aren’t attendings. I think those are attendings just say “proceed with caution”. I love anesthesia and I certainly love my paycheck....you just need to find the right gig and I have no problem saying mine is nowhere near perfect
 
Isn’t that the same as primary care?
Yeah... It's the same. So we can add the caveat that anesthesia mommy track is a great lifestyle... I was talking about specialties that offer both lifestyle and 350k+/year. I draw the line at 350k+ when it comes to $$$.
 
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This particular poster thinks he is one of the smartest individuals in the world. Maybe he is. Who knows! To say med students are not smart (IQ-wise) compared to the average population is assassin. In all honesty, I thought the same thing too until I started dealing regularly with average population.
If we are talking about the same person, he really used to be top 2-3% IQ back when he was young and at his peak. That still made him stupider than about 200 million people, which was great, actually, because he has always enjoyed the company of smarter people than he. Nowadays there are probably about 1 billion people who are smarter (and many of those post blogs and articles on the Internet), so he can feel his limits on a daily basis.

A good number of medical students and doctors used to be the best and brightest, back when their real wages were 3-4 times what they are now. They were never all very smart, because 1. we need more doctors than there are usually smart people WILLING to practice medicine (and that number decreases as society values doctors less and less, 2. it takes a certain stomach to deal with blood and other "yucky" organic stuff (which again decreases the pool), 3. many truly smart individuals are socially awkward (i.e. nerds) and hate dealing with other people, 4. medicine used to be and still somewhat is as much (if not more) about rote memorization as about rational thinking which makes 5. GRIT, and not IQ, the most important factor for anybody who wants to become a doctor, followed by social skills, not IQ (although, for outcomes, probably IQ is the most important by far). Hence 6. the truly smart will be more attracted to the exact sciences, not medicine, where they can shine with much less effort.

But most medical doctors (could) have never been rocket scientists, and anybody who says otherwise is too dumb to actually realize how dumb s/he is. Yes, we are above average as a group, which is NOT a big deal, given how dumb the average person (IQ of 100-ish) is indeed.
 
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With regards to Anesthesia, it’s very attractive along my classmates bc of no rounding, shift work most of the times, and getting paid well. The only bs is dealing with surgeons but most people in this specialty are generally easy to get along with. The Type A personality people will hate this specialty and for those people, they should have done surgery instead.

You really know nothing
 
On the one hand I feel like most med students would at least know about MGMA... but on the other hand, a bunch of people in my class legit didn't even know they had to do residency after med school so.................
I'm not surprised. I bet if you took 100 people with a medical school acceptance in hand, and asked them to explain how the match, internship, residency, boards, licensing, and credentialing worked a large majority wouldn't be able to do it.

No kidding, for the average pre-med, the acceptance letter is the finish line. The rest is just details.
 
If we are talking about the same person, he really used to be top 2-3% IQ back when he was young and at his peak. That still made him stupider than about 200 million people, which was great, actually, because he has always enjoyed the company of smarter people than he. Nowadays there are probably about 1 billion people who are smarter (and many of those post blogs and articles on the Internet), so he can feel his limits on a daily basis.

A good number of medical students and doctors used to be the best and brightest, back when their real wages were 3-4 times what they are now. They were never all very smart, because 1. we need more doctors than there are usually smart people WILLING to practice medicine (and that number decreases as society values doctors less and less, 2. it takes a certain stomach to deal with blood and other "yucky" organic stuff (which again decreases the pool), 3. many truly smart individuals are socially awkward (i.e. nerds) and hate dealing with other people, 4. medicine used to be and still somewhat is as much (if not more) about rote memorization as about rational thinking which makes 5. GRIT, and not IQ, the most important factor for anybody who wants to become a doctor, followed by social skills, not IQ (although, for outcomes, probably IQ is the most important by far). Hence 6. the truly smart will be more attracted to the exact sciences, not medicine, where they can shine with much less effort.

But most medical doctors (could) have never been rocket scientists, and anybody who says otherwise is too dumb to actually realize how dumb s/he is. Yes, we are above average as a group, which is NOT a big deal, given how dumb the average person (IQ of 100-ish) is indeed.
Agreed. I even had trouble with college calculus.....
 
You really know nothing
You may be “done when you’re done” at Kaiser or in academics but the vast majority of anesthesiologists don’t work in those settings. I may have a scheduled lineup until 2 or 5 or whatever. But the reality is that if you work in a busy practice where you can actually make a lot of money, then you are there until all the scheduled cases, addons, and emergencies are done. There is no fixed end time and more often than not you go home later than the schedule suggests on the day before. Surgeons can’t do surgery without anesthesia. We are here to serve them so their lifestyle is our lifestyle.
shift work is the key to happiness in a this specialty. In my practice there are some docs who work shifts (myself included) and some docs who are done when it’s done (with a peel/call system). Shift docs make less. We are also happy. The other guys are miserable.....
 
shift work is the key to happiness in a this specialty. In my practice there are some docs who work shifts (myself included) and some docs who are done when it’s done (with a peel/call system). Shift docs make less. We are also happy. The other guys are miserable.....

We have a peel/call system too. The issue is that sometimes we have only 1-2 rooms running at 6pm and other days we have 7 rooms running past 8 and we are MD only. Still I’m very happy because I enjoy the work and the moolah.
 
We have a peel/call system too. The issue is that sometimes we have only 1-2 rooms running at 6pm and other days we have 7 rooms running past 8 and we are MD only. Still I’m very happy because I enjoy the work and the moolah.
You take in house overnight call?
 
18 times per year is fantastic. But, the late days are painful too especially working past 700 pm and then having to work a full shift(10 hours or more) the following day.
 
18 times per year from 4pm to 7am or 5pm to 7am if it’s a Saturday or Sunday.
I was just curious just so perspective can be added. I think the most unhappiness comes in this field when people have ridiculous call responsibilities and ridiculous responsibilities while on call (ie hospital slave). Happiness is when you can do your job, go home, and sleep in your own bed. Slight less happiness is when you're in your bed but a pager is next to your ear. Misery is when you're attached at the hip to a hospital.

I'll say that schedule you posted is totally tolerable. Let's just say I know folks who have hospital responsibility, whether in house or pager, close to 100 days or more per year.
 
18 times per year is fantastic. But, the late days are painful too especially working past 700 pm and then having to work a full shift(10 hours or more) the following day.

If you are high call on one day, you are low call on the following day. Low call means you may be off or have only a couple of morning cases. Occasionally you’ll have a pretty full day after working late the day before. Some people trade down all their high call days. Others move up on their low call days. The day to day schedule is somewhat unpredictable but people generally get what they want. Work a lot or a little. We’re all assigned the same amount of call by our schedule maker but with all the horse trading some people work 30-40 hours per week while others can average 60-70+.
 
I'll say that schedule you posted is totally tolerable. Let's just say I know folks who have hospital responsibility, whether in house or pager, close to 100 days or more per year.

I’m one of those people because I also take q4 heart call on top of our general call responsibilities. I love it but I’m also weird.
 
I’m one of those people because I also take q4 heart call on top of our general call responsibilities. I love it but I’m also weird.
I posted it way back that a big factor for happiness in this field is "gig setup". From the history of posts I've seen from our interactions, I feel like your gig is pretty good, especially for a ACTA. If there were a certain floor that would disappear from my hospital my place would be perfect.
 
I posted it way back that a big factor for happiness in this field is "gig setup". From the history of posts I've seen from our interactions, I feel like your gig is pretty good, especially for a ACTA. If there were a certain floor that would disappear from my hospital my place would be perfect.

Haha! We have a completely separate subgroup that covers OB. Some in my subgroup moonlight there but I never do🙂
 
Problem is, that floor is generating all the revenue.
That is true. But good lord is it soul crushing (admittedly, here, when you're on that call there's a lot of other BS we deal with and that's a big problem with our group. some handle it better than others)
 
Misery is being in a hospital that you have to swipe in every door for it to open so they can track your every move.
the beds in the call room are as thin as a prisons. Come to think of it, being stuck in a hospital for a full shift resembles a prison.
 
Derm fits the bill in term of both lifestyle and $$$ right out of residency. Rad onc is also up there if one can get a job. Ophthal is good as well, but the starting starting can be extremely low.

For psych and FM/IM outpatient, you will get the lifestyle but you won't get the $$$$ (350k+/yr).

psych can easily get that money if you put in the hours. there are almost no psychiatrists near me accepting insurance. it's pure cash and they can make an insane amount of money.
 
psych can easily get that money if you put in the hours. there are almost no psychiatrists near me accepting insurance. it's pure cash and they can make an insane amount of money.
Yes , distribution of questionable Benzos for cash is the next unscrupulous epidemic that needs to go....
 
Derm fits the bill in term of both lifestyle and $$$ right out of residency. Rad onc is also up there if one can get a job. Ophthal is good as well, but the starting starting can be extremely low.

For psych and FM/IM outpatient, you will get the lifestyle but you won't get the $$$$ (350k+/yr).
I know some psychiatrists getting 200+ in New York for inpatient and psych ER work for regular work and locums. For a 40 hour week, you definitely hit above 350k+. One psychiatrist I knew personally did ER work (220k) and worked at a nursing home (250k). Worked anesthiology hours 60+ hours. Was pulling in total above 450k+. Definitely money in psych as long as you don't lowball yourself. And the hours are great during residency. With psych moonlighting during 3rd year residency, im currently pulling between 10-17k extra a month not including resident salary. I don't think that's possible to do in anesthesiology residency.

And if you look a the charting outcomes for anesthesiology vs psychiatry, you have a higher chance of not matching in psych than in anesthesiology. Therefore, anesthesiology is easier to match in.
 
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I know some psychiatrists getting 200+ in New York for inpatient and psych ER work for regular work and locums. For a 40 hour week, you definitely hit above 350k+. One psychiatrist I knew personally did ER work (220k) and worked at a nursing home (250k). Worked anesthiology hours 60+ hours. Was pulling in total above 450k+. Definitely money in psych as long as you don't lowball yourself. And the hours are great during residency. With psych moonlighting during 3rd year residency, im currently pulling between 10-17k extra a month not including resident salary. I don't think that's possible to do in anesthesiology residency.

And if you look a the charting outcomes for anesthesiology vs psychiatry, you have a higher chance of not matching in psych than in anesthesiology. Therefore, anesthesiology is easier to match in.

Yep. stuff that most med students do not know.
 
I know some psychiatrists getting 200+ in New York for inpatient and psych ER work for regular work and locums. For a 40 hour week, you definitely hit above 350k+. One psychiatrist I knew personally did ER work (220k) and worked at a nursing home (250k). Worked anesthiology hours 60+ hours. Was pulling in total above 450k+. Definitely money in psych as long as you don't lowball yourself. And the hours are great during residency. With psych moonlighting during 3rd year residency, im currently pulling between 10-17k extra a month not including resident salary. I don't think that's possible to do in anesthesiology residency.

And if you look a the charting outcomes for anesthesiology vs psychiatry, you have a higher chance of not matching in psych than in anesthesiology. Therefore, anesthesiology is easier to match in.
You are completely wrong average psych salary for 40 hours is in the $200-240k range. Unless you want to work more than 40 hours you will be stuck in the $200-300k range. You can make more at a cash pay PP but there are only so many wealthy people willing to pay cash.
 
I know some psychiatrists getting 200+ in New York for inpatient and psych ER work for regular work and locums. For a 40 hour week, you definitely hit above 350k+. One psychiatrist I knew personally did ER work (220k) and worked at a nursing home (250k). Worked anesthiology hours 60+ hours. Was pulling in total above 450k+. Definitely money in psych as long as you don't lowball yourself. And the hours are great during residency. With psych moonlighting during 3rd year residency, im currently pulling between 10-17k extra a month not including resident salary. I don't think that's possible to do in anesthesiology residency.

And if you look a the charting outcomes for anesthesiology vs psychiatry, you have a higher chance of not matching in psych than in anesthesiology. Therefore, anesthesiology is easier to match in.

Are you welling to do that for 30 years without getting bored? That’s the question, isn’t it? Sure you can make money and do things in your free time. But here is where the “personality” of a speciality comes in. I don’t see myself do “med management” appointments, inpatient psy with some of the sickest minds as a career and wait days, weeks, months for the result. I wouldn’t have much satisfaction, even if the money is good.
 
You are completely wrong average psych salary for 40 hours is in the $200-240k range. Unless you want to work more than 40 hours you will be stuck in the $200-300k range. You can make more at a cash pay PP but there are only so many wealthy people willing to pay cash.
Never said the average psychiatrist is not making 200-240k working 40 hours. I said the ones I know in New York are making 200 hr which for a 40 hour work week would be above 300k a year. Many psychiatrist work part time and sometimes now even for the entire year so the average is skewed at times.
 
Never said the average psychiatrist is not making 200-240k working 40 hours. I said the ones I know in New York are making 200 hr which for a 40 hour work week would be above 300k a year. Many psychiatrist work part time and sometimes now even for the entire year so the average is skewed at times.
Of course many make more in a high cost of living . At my psych hospital base pay is 240k and more once you hit a certain RVU.
 
Of course many make more in a high cost of living . At my psych hospital base pay is 240k and more once you hit a certain RVU.
If psych worked anesthesiology hours (50-60 hours), the pay would be similar. Also, very few if any psychiatrists are coming in at 6 AM to start rounding like anesthesiology. Even if a psychiatrist has to take phone call for a gig, it is extremely rare to even get called for a question. Psych is lifestyle specialty, low liability and stress and if you want to work, the money is there. Also, it is in extremely high demand. Definitely has a lot of advantages compared to anesthesiology just saying.
 

There is a huge health issue with over utilized benzos, suboxone and methadone , both cash and medicaid payments(no incentive to wean).

not my opinion, it’s a societal and physician problem...
Psychiatrists are not doing this. Old, ****ty PCPs are the ones giving young women 3 of Xanax per day for basic anxiety. I see this constantly and it was especially highlighted during my in-patient psych rotation.
 

There is a huge health issue with over utilized benzos, suboxone and methadone , both cash and medicaid payments(no incentive to wean).

not my opinion, it’s a societal and physician problem...
I did not see anywhere in this article the association between cash payment private practice psychiatrists and over utilization of benzos.

I am not a psychiatrists but I have seen too many threads here of physicians insinuating other physicians must be doing something unethical if they are making way above the average salary...
 
I did not see anywhere in this article the association between cash payment private practice psychiatrists and over utilization of benzos.

I am not a psychiatrists but I have seen too many threads here of physicians insinuating other physicians must be doing something unethical if they are making way above the average salary...
I’m all for capitalism and psychiatrists making coin, appropriately....
I’m not for massive benzo distribution (cash for most psychiatrists and urgent care center/pcps) causing a well known sedative epidemic nationwide. We prescribe a ridiculous amount of sedatives in this country. A small subset of rogue physicians cause major DPH issues.

Read more ...

 
Yes , distribution of questionable Benzos for cash is the next unscrupulous epidemic that needs to go....
Psychiatrists tend to prescribe far less benzos than primary care, which is where most of those scripts actually come out of (83% of scripts are written by non-psychiatrists). Cash-only practices don't require catering to drug seekers (we're very okay with our patients hating us) and any time an unscrupulous practice opens it tends to get reported and shut down quickly. The vast majority operate like any other psych practice and exist because when you're one person operating solo, the infrastructure required for insurance billing can cost you six figures while netting you less money per patient compared to what the market will bear. Why would you pay 100k plus yearly fees to set up an EMR to make $125/visit when you can charge $250/visit, spend more time diagnosing appropriately and providing therapy, and not have to worry about insurance headaches? I'm more of a community mental health center guy, but it's easy to set why about 40% of psychiatrists are cash only since it's the best way to stay afloat as a solo practitioner.

What I find interesting is that both our fields seem to be gaining in applicants with very opposite forces at work. I'd venture that the more "clock in, clock out" types are going into anesthesia while the more entrepreneurial are heading to psych since it's one of the last places with any freedom in medicine
 
I tend to see unwarranted criticism of unethical behavior in the psych forum when a psych doc report his/her salary way above average, and I am not sure why is that to be honest.

I remember a poster get roasted there because he reports that he stacks a couple of jobs and because of that his salary was in the 95th+ percentile. Almost everyone in the psych forum was quick to tell him he was probably engaged in unethical behavior in order to make tat kind of money.
 
I tend to see unwarranted criticism of unethical behavior in the psych forum when a psych doc report his/her salary way above average, and I am not sure why is that to be honest.

I remember a poster get roasted there because he reports that he stacks a couple of jobs and because of that his salary was in the 95th+ percentile. Almost everyone in the psych forum was quick to tell him he was probably engaged in unethical behavior in order to make tat kind of money.
This is due to people wanting to believe that psych is a low paying specialty like other primary care specialties when nowadays it isn't if you put in the hours.
 
This is due to people wanting to believe that psych is a low paying specialty like other primary care specialties when nowadays it isn't if you put in the hours.
That wasn't the problem the problem was OP was providing less than sub par care. Simply said seeing pts for 5 minutes is not good care and not even psychiatry frankly, @Mass Effect
 
I tend to see unwarranted criticism of unethical behavior in the psych forum when a psych doc report his/her salary way above average, and I am not sure why is that to be honest.

I remember a poster get roasted there because he reports that he stacks a couple of jobs and because of that his salary was in the 95th+ percentile. Almost everyone in the psych forum was quick to tell him he was probably engaged in unethical behavior in order to make tat kind of money.
I think you're thinking of the guy who claimed to be seeing 60+ patients a day, which breaks down to about 8 minutes a patient or less, charting included.
 
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