Anesthesiology Residency: Chances and Advice for Future

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Hash Slinging Slasher

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After a great deal of soul-searching and deliberation, I've finally decided on anesthesiology as my specialty of choice. However, I have little idea of how competitive I given my stats. I've looked over the NRMP match outcomes, and it appears as though I have a decent chance at anesthesia. What I'm not as sure of is if that's still true given my other stats AND the fact that will be couple's matching as well.

My stats:
  • Step 1: 224
  • Clinical Grades: High-Pass (Family, Peds, Neuro), Pass (OB/GYN), Honors (none :()
  • Preclinical Grades: Organ-based curriculum with modules lasting 1-2 months each. First year was P/F with all P's. Second year had a D, several C's, and finally a B. I remediated the module with a D in the M2/M3 summer up to a B
  • Research: One poster presentation
  • Current GPA: 2.52
At this point:
  • What shape am I in going forward?
  • What should I be most concerned given my stat listing?
  • What should I do from here going forward to be as competitive as I can?
I'd be suuuuuper grateful for any help yall can give!

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Kill it on step 2, do away rotations (1-2) at places/in regions where you’d want to end up, develop a good relationship with your home institution anesthesia department.
 
You are not in great shape, but it could be worse. Your Step 1 is mediocre compounded with the fact that you struggled in second year.

It’s hard to say anything about third year without knowing percentile break downs for H/HP/P. I am just guessing but your class rank wil likely be third or fourth quartile which won’t help too much.

How competitive is the other person and what are they doing?

An away or two will help as long as they are realistic given your stats. You need to do well on step 2. You also need to apply very broadly.
 
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Thank you all. Seems like Step 2 is my best bet for redemption. In the meantime, what would be the best way for me to pursue clinical research? As in who would be the best person usually to reach out to (attending, resident, professor, etc)?
 
You are still eligible for the majority of programs and will have a leg up, regionally speaking, if you do aways. It also shows dedication to the field to do 1 or even 2 aways in 4th year.
On a personal note:
What sort of candidate do you think would match into The Mayo Clinic in Rochester, MI? I ask, because this is my top choice, but it seems quite competitive. I got 241 on step and don't really have much else going for me, like at all.....any tips would be appreciated
 
People worry way too much about their stats in anesthesia. Your step score isn't amazing but it's fine. Your clinical grades aren't amazing but they're fine. Nobody cares that you had an "organ-based curriculum". Avoid any glaring red flags, act like a normal human being, apply broadly, and I guarantee you will match with those states. But don't take my word for it, look at the statistics. Assuming you're an AMG, statistically speaking 214 of 222 applicants with a similar step 1 score to you matched in anesthesia (see NRMP charting outcomes 2018). That's a 96% match rate just based on your step score alone. The 4% who didn't match probably fall into one of the above aforementioned categories, so if you do not then you are basically guaranteed to match somewhere. Anesthesia is not competitive these days, there's no need to be OCD over your qualifications. Sure, if you're a rock star you will achieve a better match, but even people with incredibly mediocre CVs have zero problem matching to gas.
 
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It’s hard to say anything about third year without knowing percentile break downs for H/HP/P. I am just guessing but your class rank wil likely be third or fourth quartile which won’t help too much.


Does ranking within your school impact residency chances by much? I'm currently top quartile in my class, but I'm wondering if it's worth the toll this has taken on personal time with my family. I'm also at a DO school where I further wonder if PDs care much about my rankings relative to my peers.
 
Has anyone heard back yet from any places they applied for elective rotations, either via VSAS or through independent of VSAS programs?
 
Has anyone heard back yet from any places they applied for elective rotations, either via VSAS or through independent of VSAS programs?
Not me
 
After a great deal of soul-searching and deliberation, I've finally decided on anesthesiology as my specialty of choice. However, I have little idea of how competitive I given my stats. I've looked over the NRMP match outcomes, and it appears as though I have a decent chance at anesthesia. What I'm not as sure of is if that's still true given my other stats AND the fact that will be couple's matching as well.

My stats:
  • Step 1: 224
  • Clinical Grades: High-Pass (Family, Peds, Neuro), Pass (OB/GYN), Honors (none :()
  • Preclinical Grades: Organ-based curriculum with modules lasting 1-2 months each. First year was P/F with all P's. Second year had a D, several C's, and finally a B. I remediated the module with a D in the M2/M3 summer up to a B
  • Research: One poster presentation
  • Current GPA: 2.52
At this point:
  • What shape am I in going forward?
  • What should I be most concerned given my stat listing?
  • What should I do from here going forward to be as competitive as I can?
I'd be suuuuuper grateful for any help yall can give!

I think in your case the "name" value of your med school has a lot to do with it.

An academic struggle at a top tier school can be understandable as long as LORS have no red flags.
 
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After a great deal of soul-searching and deliberation, I've finally decided on anesthesiology as my specialty of choice. However, I have little idea of how competitive I given my stats. I've looked over the NRMP match outcomes, and it appears as though I have a decent chance at anesthesia. What I'm not as sure of is if that's still true given my other stats AND the fact that will be couple's matching as well.

My stats:
  • Step 1: 224
  • Clinical Grades: High-Pass (Family, Peds, Neuro), Pass (OB/GYN), Honors (none :()
  • Preclinical Grades: Organ-based curriculum with modules lasting 1-2 months each. First year was P/F with all P's. Second year had a D, several C's, and finally a B. I remediated the module with a D in the M2/M3 summer up to a B
  • Research: One poster presentation
  • Current GPA: 2.52
At this point:
  • What shape am I in going forward?
  • What should I be most concerned given my stat listing?
  • What should I do from here going forward to be as competitive as I can?
I'd be suuuuuper grateful for any help yall can give!

Maybe this thread will help.

 
I have had students match with stats like that but not at university programs. Regional center in our area has great anesthesiology program but is not university. Level 1trauma, 1,000 + open hearts and does transplants. Do some homework and you could end up in a good training program. Good luck and best wishes
 
Just curious - why do say that?
Weak basic science fundamentals. Basic sciences (physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology) are really important for thinking in anesthesiology.
 
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Weak basic science fundamentals. Basic sciences (physiology, pathophysiology, pharmacology) are really important for thinking in anesthesiology.
So you think only people with good step1 can be good anesthesiologists...Seriously!
 
I have had students match with stats like that but not at university programs. Regional center in our area has great anesthesiology program but is not university. Level 1trauma, 1,000 + open hearts and does transplants. Do some homework and you could end up in a good training program. Good luck and best wishes
YOu think the only place to get good training are university based programs?
 
YOu think the only place to get good training are university based programs?

“Good” is hard to define. But such programs have extensive complex case exposure, large alumni networks and name recognition which helps with fellowship and job placement. So such places are much more competitive than newer community-based programs.
 
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“Good” is hard to define. But such programs have extensive complex case exposure, large alumni networks and name recognition which helps with fellowship and job placement. So such places are much more competitive than newer community-based programs.
I see new graduates all the time come through.
The ones at the low profile programs are many times better than the ivys.
I see it all the time.
The ones at the low profile program often times have twice the number of cases under their belts .
 
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I see new graduates all the time come through.
The ones at the low profile programs are many times better than the ivys.
I see it all the time.
The ones at the low profile program often times have twice the number of cases under their belts .

Great. But many of them struggle to find jobs in desirable metropolitan areas and/or good fellowships (except ICU). All else being equal, that ivy leaguer is getting the nod first. Just how it is.
 
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YOu think the only place to get good training are university based programs?
No. As I mentioned in my post there is a very good regional level 1 center near me with a good anesthesiology residency. You need to do your homework and make sure they have all the surgical services, Cardio, Neuro, Pain, OB, Trauma, Peds. Many university programs will ship you out for peds, but you want to be on the home team on the other services. You dont want to be out on rotations all the time being the resident from St Elsewhere. Avoid these programs. To match at a university program you need stats a little higher. That's all I was saying.
 
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So you think only people with good step1 can be good anesthesiologists...Seriously!
I think people with poor fundamentals could always make good knee-jerk doctors (aka midlevels with MD degrees), but will probably never become outstanding either in anesthesia or in critical care. They are the people who make midlevels look down on doctors, because a doc with poor basic science knowledge is basically just a midlevel, though with more hours of training. But the level of understanding of body processes is not physician-level, not what it should be.

I've met these people, worked with them. They are usually the ones who ask for guidelines when you want to cancel an "asystole"-type case, for example. You can't argue with them; they just don't get it. ("But the patient has been cleared by medicine...")
 
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I think people with poor fundamentals could always make good knee-jerk doctors (aka midlevels with MD degrees), but will probably never become outstanding neither in anesthesia nor in critical care. They are the people that make midlevels look down on doctors, because a doc with poor basic science knowledge is basically just a midlevel, though with more hours of training. But the level of understanding of body processes is not physician-level, not what it should be.
hyperbole...
 
Step 1 score means NOTHING.
It is meant for LICENSURE purposes and not to weed out who knows more.
same with step 2 and 3.
I barely studied for either. Does that affect the kind of decisions I make?
NOPE.
 
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Step 1 score means NOTHING.
It is meant for LICENSURE purposes and not to weed out who knows more.
same with step 2 and 3.
I barely studied for either. Does that affect the kind of decisions I make?
NOPE.
Sure. And I am just a good test-taker.
 
I see new graduates all the time come through.
The ones at the low profile programs are many times better than the ivys.
I see it all the time.
The ones at the low profile program often times have twice the number of cases under their belts .
It always depends on the PERSON. There are always exceptions everywhere. But I doubt that a third-tier program will produce better grads ON AVERAGE than a first-tier one.

Also, case numbers are not everything. Just because a minor league player has played more games than a major league one, he won't be worth millions.
 
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So you think only people with good step1 can be good anesthesiologists...Seriously!

The OP detailed his preclinical grades as consisting of a D, several Cs, and a B.

Granted, some schools grade based on curves (a concept I oppose), but still... this means that it was more than a bad day at the Prometric center.
 
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The OP detailed his preclinical grades as consisting of a D, several Cs, and a B.

Granted, some schools grade based on curves (a concept I oppose), but still... this means that it was more than a bad day at the Prometric center.
I agree. Also, PDs consider other factors. Class rank, a rising trend, LORs, audition rotation at the program etc., which might raise an applicants status.
 
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I think people with poor fundamentals could always make good knee-jerk doctors (aka midlevels with MD degrees), but will probably never become outstanding either in anesthesia or in critical care. They are the people who make midlevels look down on doctors, because a doc with poor basic science knowledge is basically just a midlevel, though with more hours of training. But the level of understanding of body processes is not physician-level, not what it should be.

I've met these people, worked with them. They are usually the ones who ask for guidelines when you want to cancel an "asystole"-type case, for example. You can't argue with them; they just don't get it. ("But the patient has been cleared by medicine...")

Thank you for the feedback. It's hard to hear but needed to be said. I spent most of my first two years desperately trying to keep up but have been doing better in my third-year. If I want to salvage and improve what I can as far as clinical reasoning skills, basic science fundamentals etc goes during fourth-year, what do you think I should do before residency starts?
 
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Thank you for the feedback. It's hard to hear but needed to be said. I spent most of my first two years desperately trying to keep up but have been doing better in my third-year. If I want to salvage and improve what I can as far as clinical reasoning skills, basic science fundamentals etc goes during fourth-year, what do you think I should do before residency starts?
In order not to become just a protocolized drone, you need to understand the WHY behind everything you do as a doctor. That means a strong foundation in physiology, pathology and pharmacology. How can you become better at them fast? Borrow a set of Kaplan USMLE Step 1 Lecture Notes, and learn the respective books by heart (I haven't looked at them in like 15 years, but I am sure they are still good).

For immunology, the best book I have encountered is How The Immune System Works by Lauren Sompayrac's. For microbiology, Clinical Microbiology Made Ridiculously Simple. These two are just fantastic. I should definitely buy the new editions for myself. Infectious diseases are the most frequent diseases in nature, and yet few doctors have a decent knowledge of them.

If you know well these 5 books, you will have a decent basic science foundation. Nothing replaces reading great books during a rotation (especially great pathology learning books), but there is no time for that. On top of these, you should develop some Terminator-strong statistics knowledge and analytical skills, but that's really the frosting on the cake. Otherwise, you will become just one of the many docs fooled by "evidence"-based medicine on a daily basis.

The best anesthesiologists I have met have the intellectual skills of internists and the practical skills of surgeons. Neither the former nor the latter are enough. (Most anesthesiologists in practice have the latter and lack the former, most people with problems during anesthesiology residency the other way round. Most anesthesiologists with the former also tend to become intensivists, but that's a different story.)

Anytime you find yourself knowing how or what and not why, you have basic science gaps to fill. The American healthcare market does not care about the why, until you get sued. That's why many of our doctors are not that impressive over a midlevel, and probably why the US has medical "schools" and not "universities", like the rest of the world. We tend to emphasize doing over thinking.

Medicine is not a trade; it should be a strongly intellectual activity. Nobody tells you that, because Big Pharma and Big Healthcare and other Big conspiracies have zero interest in having truly good doctors who think for themselves. They need brainwashed monkeys who do what they are told, and who can't even analyze a research paper, let's not mention bayesian decision making. In a capitalist healthcare system, one gets hired based on what one can do, not what one knows. Still, one can't excel at being a doctor if one doesn't understand deeply why one does the what, or why this how is better than that how.

Good luck! The first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging you have one.
 
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In order not to become just a protocolized drone, you need to understand the WHY behind everything you do as a doctor. That means a strong foundation in physiology, pathology and pharmacology. How can you become better at them fast? Borrow a set of Kaplan USMLE Step 1 Lecture Notes, and learn the respective books by heart (I haven't looked at them in like 15 years, but I am sure they are still good).

For immunology, the best book I have encountered is How The Immune System Works by Lauren Sompayrac's. For microbiology, Clinical Microbiology Made Ridiculously Simple. These two are just fantastic. I should definitely buy the new editions for myself. Infectious diseases are the most frequent diseases in nature, and yet few doctors have a decent knowledge of them.

If you know well these 5 books, you will have a decent basic science foundation. Nothing replaces reading great books during a rotation (especially great pathology learning books), but there is no time for that. On top of these, you should develop some Terminator-strong statistics knowledge and analytical skills, but that's really the frosting on the cake. Otherwise, you will become just one of the many docs fooled by "evidence"-based medicine on a daily basis.

The best anesthesiologists I have met have the intellectual skills of internists and the practical skills of surgeons. Neither the former nor the latter are enough. (Most anesthesiologists in practice have the latter and lack the former, most people with problems during anesthesiology residency the other way round. Most anesthesiologists with the former also tend to become intensivists, but that's a different story.)

Anytime you find yourself knowing how or what and not why, you have basic science gaps to fill. The American healthcare market does not care about the why, until you get sued. That's why many of our doctors are not that impressive over a midlevel, and probably why the US has medical "schools" and not "universities", like the rest of the world. We tend to emphasize doing over thinking.

Medicine is not a trade; it should be a strongly intellectual activity. Nobody tells you that, because Big Pharma and Big Healthcare and other Big conspiracies have zero interest in having truly good doctors who think for themselves. They need brainwashed monkeys who do what they are told, and who can't even analyze a research paper, let's not mention bayesian decision making. In a capitalist healthcare system, one gets hired based on what one can do, not what one knows. Still, one can't excel at being a doctor if one doesn't understand deeply why one does the what, or why this how is better than that how.

Good luck! The first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging you have one.
Damn, you started off sounding quite arrogant, but ended up giving very good advice. Don't know what to think other than "I better pick up a book right now."
 
Damn, you started off sounding quite arrogant, but ended up giving very good advice. Don't know what to think other than "I better pick up a book right now."
Because I am arrogant, but I mean well.
 
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It always depends on the PERSON. There are always exceptions everywhere. But I doubt that a third-tier program will produce better grads ON AVERAGE than a first-tier one.

Also, case numbers are not everything. Just because a minor league player has played more games than a major league one, he won't be worth millions.
For someone who likes to jerk themselves off about "deeper understanding" and "Terminator-strong statistics knowledge," you should know that the biggest reason "first-tier" programs churn out better grads is because of the caliber of students that match there in the first place, not primarily because of the caliber of the program.

Also, memorizing hard copies of textbooks? That's your grand advice for OP before going to residency?

"The best anesthesiologists I have met have the intellectual skills of internists and the practical skills of surgeons." Wow, you're telling me that the best doctors you've met are the best at everything? Gosh OP, well why don't you just be the best at everything?
 
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For someone who likes to jerk themselves off about "deeper understanding" and "Terminator-strong statistics knowledge," you should know that the biggest reason "first-tier" programs churn out better grads is because of the caliber of students that match there in the first place, not primarily because of the caliber of the program.

Also, memorizing hard copies of textbooks? That's your grand advice for OP before going to residency?

"The best anesthesiologists I have met have the intellectual skills of internists and the practical skills of surgeons." Wow, you're telling me that the best doctors you've met are the best at everything? Gosh OP, well why don't you just be the best at everything?
You're just a medical student, so you have no idea what anesthesiology or critical care entail, AND you're intentionally misquoting and misinterpreting me. So why don't you just go troll elsewhere?
 
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You're just a medical student, so you have no idea what anesthesiology or critical care entail, AND you're intentionally misquoting and misinterpreting me. So why don't you just go troll elsewhere?
Don’t need to be an anesthesiologist to stick up for a fellow student who you called a “future SuperCRNA” based on an average Step 1 score and a few bad preclinical grades. But it’s good to know the attitude of “the med student’s opinion doesn’t count because they’re a med student” is alive and well here. I would think someone as smart as an attending anesthesiologist would know what an ad hominem is, but alas, here we are.

By the way, another statistics tip: the SD for Step 1 is like 20 points. So the test is pretty crap at nailing you down to a certain score.

I didn’t misquote or misinterpret you. You were rude and condescending for no reason.

Sorry to derail your thread OP. That’s all I have to say. Hope you find the advice you’re looking for.
 
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Don’t need to be an anesthesiologist to stick up for a fellow student who you called a “future SuperCRNA” based on an average Step 1 score and a few bad preclinical grades. But it’s good to know the attitude of “the med student’s opinion doesn’t count because they’re a med student” is alive and well here. I would think someone as smart as an attending anesthesiologist would know what an ad hominem is, but alas, here we are.

By the way, another statistics tip: the SD for Step 1 is like 20 points. So the test is pretty crap at nailing you down to a certain score.

I didn’t misquote or misinterpret you. You were rude and condescending for no reason.

Sorry to derail your thread OP. That’s all I have to say. Hope you find the advice you’re looking for.
I do apologize for my tone, but I don't apologize for the message (not even the part about students having no idea about what anesthesiology entails). The message was correct (and well-intentioned).

The books I had recommended, even the ones that were worth memorizing, are not (reference) textbooks. They are learning books, especially the Kaplan ones. And they were the ones that helped me go from zero to hero (or so).

Most people who waste 30-60 minutes to write a long post don't do it with bad intentions. But then, I should have learned long ago, no good deed goes unpunished.

You don't need to protect medical students from me. Please prove me wrong by coming up with better advice. I'll appreciate it.

P.S. The best thing one of my attendings ever did for me was telling me that I was thinking like a CRNA. It still stings, but it made me a better doctor.
 
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P.S. The best thing one of my attendings ever did for me was telling me that I was thinking like a CRNA. It still stings, but it made me a better doctor.
Hahahaha...
 
Hahahaha...
There is always place for worse. Just imagine how bad I was before. Something like you...? No, not that bad.

Only in America does a barely PGY-2 have the lack of common sense to uselessly comment on a double-boarded attending. If you have nothing intelligent to say, just sit in your corner and listen. You may learn something (from almost anybody), respect maybe.
 
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There is always place for worse. Just imagine how bad I was before. Something like you...? No, not that bad.

Only in America does a barely PGY-2 have the guts to comment on a double-boarded attending. If you have nothing intelligent to say, just sit in your corner and listen. You may learn something (from almost anybody), respect maybe.
You are funny!
 
Keep trying. Still amateur level.
Are you serious? My MCAT score was 35 and I had a 257 step1 score. These scores will definitely make me a good doctor. Guess what! I will be triple-boarded.
 
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