Anesthesiology

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Crawford W Long

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I'm a 1st year anesthesiology resident. I can help with questions regarding the specialty, applications/rotations.
We have a very active forum at the partner site: Gas Forums.

Here are some basics:

1) What do you enjoy most about your specialty?

I love the minute to minute decision-making required. Anesthesiology enables surgery to happen. Patients appreciate you. You see the results of your actions immediately. You take care of all ages from the premature babies to the geriatrics. We practice applied pharmacology and (patho)physiology, most of us find this very rewarding. We also take care of the sickest patients in the hospital at times.

2) Is there anything you dislike about your specialty?

Sometimes you won't be recognized for the work that is done. Others think physicians are not needed in anesthesiology. When the job is done well, others think it's easy and not worthy of having gone to medical school.

3) What is a typical schedule like for your specialty? Are the hours/shifts flexible?

For residents, most work from 6 or 6:15 am to anywhere from 4-6p. There's a lot of variability between programs. Call for me will be about 5-6 times a month with 1 Saturday or Sunday per month too. Our ICU rotations are busier with Q3 call (but still <=80 hours). As attendings, the hours are what you make of it. Some people just work for outpatient centers, < 40 hours a week. Others can choose to work >70. It really depends on the job you look for.

4) Where do you see the specialty going in the next 5 years?

The specialty has recovered from the late 90s where very few American med students applied (~350 for 1200 spots). This was from fear of not being able to find jobs, competition etc. The applicant pool has gotten more competitive which means very good things for the specialty. A lot more people are interested in subspecializing. There's also a shift in making the training more geared to critical care. The role of the anesthesiologist outside of the OR is still being debated (ie what does perioperative medicine mean?).

I'll develop this thread/FAQ as soon as time permits.

CWL
If you're curious: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crawford_Long

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How did you come to decide that anesthesiology was your specialty of choice? The way I understand it, most school's don't have a required anesthesiology rotation during third year, so one must use an elective rotation to try it out. It seems like there are fewer elective rotations than there are fields that are not required rotations.

Anesthesiology (along with surgery and a few others) is a field that interests me. I like to do things with my hands and like to have immediate results for my work. The lifestyle of anesthesiology appeals to me more than the lifestyle of surgery since I am a mom with two young children. Pain medicine especially appeals to me, though I'm not exactly sure why.

What type of person stereotypically likes anesthesiology - and even more specifically, what type of things does a person enjoy that likes anesthesiology? I wonder if I wouldn't like anesthesiology because I've never really enjoyed physics and chemistry... I'm assuming an anesthesiologist should really enjoy the physical sciences - but maybe thats something that comes with practice, and it just becomes routine.

I know I should go and shadow an anesthesiologist to get a better idea of what they do. What type of anesthesiologist should I try to shadow to really get a good grasp of what they do? (someone working in a hospital, in a surgery center, etc)

Thanks for your help.

First, my apologies for taking so long. I had some confusion how the process worked.

As for your questions, I didn't know that I would like anesthesiology until I did 2 rotations. I suspected based on the things I enjoyed in the first two years of school that I might like it. I knew there wasn't anything that I liked in the general clerkship fields (or their subspecialties). During OB I started talking to one of the anesthesiologists and he invited me to spend some time. During psych rotation we had our weekends free and I spent a Saturday with the on call attending. We did a variety of cases but there was a Type A dissection on the schedule. We did a hypothermic circulatory arrest anesthetic. After 3rd year my first rotation was a month with that practice (private group, no residents). I had also scheduled an away rotation. I wasn't thrilled about how the private group was, so I had my doubts. But, after spending about 2 days in the teaching/academic institute I knew I was making the right choice. Bottom line, if you can find time during an easy 3rd year rotation to spend a day with an anesthesiologists, do it. Who should you follow? anyone available and good with students. Just shadowing a senior resident (if that's an option) would be nice too. There's a lot of fun stuff going on in ambulatory centers too.

Aside from early hours, I think that anesthesiology residency is one of the most benign. There are a few workhorse programs out there but I'll only come close to 80 hours during the ICU months. Lifestyle is even better once an attending. Be warned though, we get paid by the time interval, so to make a lot of money you have to work a lot. I know attendings who have to work 75-90+ hours a week. Or, you could decide to make less and have an easier life and work <40 hours. Flexibility is one great thing about the field.

A love of pharmacology and pathophysiology is the typical answer about what we like. Not everyone will say that, but anesthesiology is applied cardiopulmonary physiology and pharmacology. All that stuff you learn in the 1st 2 years is actually used. Pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics are the bread and butter of the field. Plus, you have to know anatomy for regional anesthesia. The other thing I like is being needed. Surgery doesn't happen without us. I feel that's my way of making a difference in people's lives. Patients appreciate what we do. That was important to me. Very little physics (not like radiology/rad onc) minor chemistry. Heavy on the physiology and pharm. Plus, you have to be quick, think on your feet, and intervene while diagnosing. Any more questions, feel free to ask. I promise my replies will be faster now!
 
I noticed your screen name. Are you located in Atlanta? The reason I ask is that I am trying to do a bit of shadowing with an anesthesiologist somewhere in Atl and if you were in atl. I didnt know if you could point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance.

Sorry, I'm not in Georgia. CW Long was the father of anesthesiology. You might try to ask your medical director for any leads. What hospitals do you go to frequently? I know the area in Atlanta and you can PM me for some of the ones to follow up on. Grady might be an option. Hope this helps.
 
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I have gone over to gasforums before but always feel like an idiot when I ask questions. The people don't make me feel that way, but my questions seem so small that I feel like I am just being annoying. I am about to start med school in the fall and am interested in anesthesiology. With the last surgery I had, my anesthesiologist really put me at ease and calmed me down when I got nervous about the procedure. Pretty much at this point, that is my motivation. I have never had much experience outside of that though. I won't get exposed to it until my 4th year, so I am nervous that I will choose to apply to those residencies and find I don't like it or I will choose to stay away and find that I love it during the rotation. Do you think I should gain some exposure during my first/second year to see if I like it? If my school doesn't have a formal shadowing program (not sure), how do you think I should go about this? Do you think research through FAER between M1 and M2 would make me more competitive? I really want to do my residency in Washington state (my boyfriend and I are both from there), so I want to be as competitive as I can and land one of these spots. What is your opinion on away rotations? Thanks for taking the time to answer these questions. I will probably have more after you answer these.

I'm glad to hear that the anesthesiologists made you feel better. I tell my patients if they are anxious that I'm there just for them. To take care of only them, make sure everything is safe and comfortable. It's a hallmark of the field. You can ask your questions here but I think the gasforums are more appropriate for clinical questions (as long as they aren't personal medical advice).

Research is golden when you apply. There's a paucity of American anesthesiology research/funding etc now. You can get a great residency without it, but it definitely makes you stand out. It doesn't have to be FAER but that is one route. If you go to a school with a residency, I guarantee there will be research opportunities. But, more important will be your Step 1 score, clinical grades and letters of recommendation.

Once you get school started, you may find that you like something else (maybe path or radiology or whatever). So, keep your options open but work hard. I don't know if many places have a formal shadowing program, but it's something you could try to do informally (or organize a formal one?).

I know that both UW and Virginia Mason are well respected programs.
 
what subfield of anesthesiology are you going into? general, critical care, pain management? and why.....im a premed, going to be applying this coming year and i want to pursue the anethesiology field.

I'm interested in critical care, possibly also cardiac. My residency program has a few people doing both. If I decide on an academic career I'll likely do that (not sure on that yet). Like my advice in other posts, be open minded and study. I thought I was going to do EM and realized that anesthesiology had more to offer than EM.
 
Hi CWL,
Thanks for starting this forum for us. I do have a question about anesthesiologists being trained in CCM. Can an MDA/DOA trained in CCM work in the ICUs and in the OR or are they restricted to just working in ICUs?



Thanks
Nev

Thanks for the question. You might want to know that the use of "MDA" (or DOA but few use that) is frowned upon by anesthesiologists. Only MDs/DOs are anesthesiologists. MDA stands for MD-anesthetist not MD-anesthesiologist. It's something the headhunters came up with to distinguish from nurse anesthetists. There's only one kind of MD/DO who is also an anesthetist: anesthesiologists.

As for you questions, most anesthesiology intensivists work in academic centers. The split their time between the OR and ICU as they like. Some do 1 week ICU every 12 weeks (the rest is OR), others do 3 weeks ICU and 1 week research and then some time in the OR. It all depends on the practice dynamics and individual preferences. Full time ICU work is mentally draining (so is the OR but different), so the rotation keeps them sane.
 
hello!

Thanks very much for being a mentor on sdn. I am starting my first year of medical school in a couple weeks and anesthesiology is one of the many fields that peaks my interest. I was wondering which basic science courses in years 1 and 2 are key in the field of anesthesiology? Also, i have an interest in working with children, do anesthesiologists have to further specialize to have pediatric patients or do they see a broad age range of patients in general? Thanks! :)

I'm glad to help. Traditionally, pharmacology and physiology (add pathophys too) are what you rely on. I think pathology is also very important. Being able to integrate the fields (ie pharmacology is really interventional pathophysiology) is important too. But I think I'm more old-fashioned. You are in school to be a physician. You need to learn the things that distinguishes physicians from non-physicians. That means that histology and embryology and behavioral sciences and all that stuff that will bog you down is important. I don't mean to say that you will be destined to be a bad doctor if you don't master those subjects, but they are still important. Also, people skills are valued. Being able to put an anxious patient at ease with your conversation and interaction is worth more than 2 mg of midazolam.

As for kids, the vast majority of pediatric surgeries are done in the private practice world by non-fellowship trained anesthesiologists. Fellowship training gives you the ability to take care of the sickest neonates and infants, congenital heart disease (you won't find many pediatric CHD surgeries in the PP world), and kids getting major surgeries.
 
How do the salaries of CC-trained anesthesiologists compare with general anesthesiologists? Do you think that in the future, with increased demand in CC, the salary for CC-trained anes. will also increase?

It would seem REALLY cool to me to be able to do 2 or 3 weeks of CC/SICU and then hit the OR for a week or two - to have that mix would be great. Talk about salivating over path and phys!
Is there anyway you can, as an anesthesiologist, have control over the complexity of the cases you see? In other words, do the CC guys see any more of the involved cases than the general guys? B/c otherwise it would seem that the CC fellowship is just pretty much to land you in the SICU..

I can't really speak about salaries since I have little knowledge on it. But, you can expect that CCM probably pays 50-60% what OR times pays. I do think the reimbursement will improve. Not to mention the giant shortage of fellowship trained intensivists NOW, let alone in the future.

Anesthesiologists have control over the kinds of cases they see by their practice environment. But, I think if you are in a practice that does all kinds of cases you will also be expected to do all kinds of cases (unless there's a fellowship trained partner who's utilized in that manner). Like MilitaryMD said on gasforums a while ago, CCM didn't make him a better anesthesiologist, it made him a better physician. The SICU is a natural extension of the OR, but ACCM can practice in any ICU (just like any other kind of intensivist).
 
Hey everyone! My name is Pass The Gas, and like Crawford, I too am a Anesthesiology resident. You'll also see threads started by me regarding MCAT prep, Medical School Admissions: From Behind The 8 Ball, Medical School Admissions: Nailing the Interview, Personal Statements, and Non-Traditionals. Please feel free to send me messages regarding any of these issues. First, let me answer some of the *standard* questions which kick off every mentor thread.


1. What do you enjoy most about your specialty?


Anesthesiology is one of the most multi-faceted specialties in all of medicine, requiring an expansive knowledge of medicine in general, the pharmacological and physiological basic sciences, as well as procedural skills which need to be performed under very stressful environments, often on very sick patients.

Interested? You can choose from general OR work, to outpatient pain management to intensive care unit work, or even more. Because Anesthesiologists are often called "clinical physiologists", it's also a perfect springboard for a career in research and development, both in academics and private industry.


2. Is there anything you dislike about your specialty?


Not really. The perceived downsides include lack of followup, boredom interrupted by moments of sheer terror, the acuity of the patients one sees, and the clinic work associated with chronic pain management. It's important to remember that everything can be tailored to one's likes or dislikes within this specialty.

3. How many years of post-graduate training does your specialty require?


One year of a clinical base year, either at the institution you match Anesthesiology at, or as a "preliminary" year at a separate institution. Then three years of Anesthesiology residency, followed by a fellowship if one desires, with the following fields available: Cardiac, Interventional Pain, Pediatrics, Critical Care, Neuro, Regional, Trauma, Transplant, Obstetrics, and Ambulatory. Only Cardiac, Critical Care, and Interventional Pain are ACGME certified fellowships.

4. What is a typical schedule like for your specialty? Are the hours/shifts flexible?


Anesthesiology is a great field because you can tailor your schedule as you see fit. Part time, Full time, locum tenens, there is great flexibility. Generally, an Anesthesiologist works 50 hours a week with 8 weeks of vacation off a year making $350,000 plus benefits. For more information regarding salary, time off, and schedule, check out the Anesthesiology sub-section of this site.

5. Where do you see your specialty going in five years?


The specialty's focus in the past few years has been for a bigger drive towards *peri-operative* medicine, including more requirements for ICU rotations during the residency period. Due to the upswing in competitiveness, Anesthesiology is attracting more astute candidates, and over time, will continue to thrive as a specialty. Outside forces, both political and economic, threaten all areas of medicine, and in this fight, Anesthesiology is on the front line. Look for an increase of research within the academic fields, a tougher time getting the choice residency spots, and a greater dominance of the ICU by physicians in Anesthesiology. This is a very debated topic, and more can be read on the Anesthesiology section of this site.


As far as what I won't answer on this thread, only one question: CRNA's vs. Physicians. This topic is debated endlessly on the Anesthesiology section of this site, and while extremely important for all those in medicine to consider and take a part in, is not prudent to be the focus of this Mentor Forum thread. I encourage all physicians to follow these debates closely, as the future of our profession will be radically changed, for the better or worse, depending on how many of these issues are resolved.
 
The two anesthesiology threads have been merged so both anesthesiology mentors will answer questions in this thread now.
 
This thread has awoken a bit of curosity about Anesthesiology for me. Since many of the anesthesiologist I have met do not have a true &quot;office&quot;, what is the best approach to seeking out a shadowing opportunity? Is it simply a matter of calling up the hospital, or just seeking out a doctor to ask?

Thanks,

MossPoh

Do you have any physician contacts who might know some anesthesiologists? That might be the best way. Otherwise, you could call their office (there's still a practice manager in most groups) or email? I'd say personal contacts are the way to go.
 
I have a question. Doing an anesthesiology rotation seems a little less hands on as most rotations in medical school. I will be doing a rotation soon at a facility that I am interested in and was wondering what type of things would make a student shine other than being knowledgeable while on the rotation. I don’t really know what they will actually allow a medical student do on such a rotation.

If this place has a medical student rotation, they are probably used to students. You'll probably be paired with an upper level resident (CA-2 or CA-3). Expect to get chances to intubate, do arterial lines, peripheral IVs, central lines are unlikely. I drew up drugs and gave them under supervision. Also, while you can't see it, there's a lot of thinking that goes on during an anesthetic. Depending on the program you may get to practice alternative airway devices. Read, know your drugs and pharm, but most importantly have a good work ethic. Show up early, stay until the end of the case (unless there's something else going on), help out. Taking call can be valuable (I didn't). If you want to improve your match probability, show that they want to have you as a future coworker: work hard, be nice, and get along. Personality matters a lot in anesthesiology.
 
While Anesthesiology clearly has a huge amount of thinking and planning, is there some kind of anesthesia that also contains alot of "doing?"


What do you mean with "doing". Our procedures include intubation, central and peripheral venous access, arterial lines, epidural (some fluoro guide) and spinal anesthesia, variety of peripheral nerve blocks, interventional pain procedures, transesophageal echo. Your patient's health and the procedure dictate what you do. Cardiac, liver transplant, vascular cases typically get multiple lines etc.

One word on intubation: you could do blind nasal, fiberoptic nasal or oral, usual oral (various different kinds of tubes to select based on procedure), Glidescope, Bullard and others, non-endotracheal airways like the LMA etc., emergency airways like needle cricothyroidotomy/jet ventilation. There's more that I have been exposed yet.
 
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First, I'd like to thank both of you for contributing to this forum. Your knowledge means a lot to us here.

As for my question, I am going to start soon at a caribbean medical school, and I wanted to know if there are many FMG's that you have noticed in your field?

Also, what is more likely for someone to do for a residency: categorical or
a preliminary year and then a advanced position?

Thanks again!

The field has a fair amount of non-AMG physicians, particularly for a non-primary care specialty. Part of the reason is anesthesiology's near-death experience in the late 90s. But, if you're a strong candidate and score well on Step 1 (for starters) you shouldn't have much trouble.

Only about 25% of the spots are categorical, so most match advanced.
 
I have a question that might seem a little stupid. I think that I've made up my mind to pursue anesthesia now. My question is, how do I know which programs have the PGY1 year intergrated vs. others that have a separate year? I have looked at some of the websites but I'm kinda confused.
thanks

Check out Freida at the AMA website www.ama-assn.org
Programs with a C in the number are categorical, A are advanced, P is prelim.
 
HI again CWL,
Could you tell me what the duties of a Trauma Anesthesiologist are? I have seen fellowship programs for them, so I was wondering about their role.
Thanks
Nev

I've only seen trauma anesthesiologists in one setting (Shock Trauma in Baltimore). The Trauma Resuscitation Unit (ie the trauma bays) is headed by an anesthesiologist. They have 6 ORs and do the anesthesia for the cases as well. Some are also intensivists and work in their ICUs. A lot of resuscitation research is done there and at UMMS. You certainly don't need a fellowship to do trauma cases, it's mostly for the academic places.
 
what are the best elective rotations to take if you want to get into anesthesiology ?

Not sure what you're asking. If you want to do rotations that will help your application for the match, then I would say anesthesiology and critical care rotations. 10 years ago you could get a spot without ever having looked at an anesthesia machine. When I interviewed every person asked me how much exposure I had.

If you're asking about what will help for the field, critical care, cardiology/pulmonary consults would be good. So would nephrology and almost any other med or peds subspecialty. I think that transfusion medicine is highly important, but most people find it very boring. Again, exposure to anesthesiology is helpful.
 
Originally Posted by MossPoh
This thread has awoken a bit of curosity about Anesthesiology for me. Since many of the anesthesiologist I have met do not have a true &quot;office&quot;, what is the best approach to seeking out a shadowing opportunity? Is it simply a matter of calling up the hospital, or just seeking out a doctor to ask?

Thanks,

MossPoh

Try getting involved with the pre-med club at a University or the Area Health Education Center (AHEC) in your community. Both of them provide resources for shadowing, and can often hook you up with mentors in the community.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel
I have a question. Doing an anesthesiology rotation seems a little less hands on as most rotations in medical school. I will be doing a rotation soon at a facility that I am interested in and was wondering what type of things would make a student shine other than being knowledgeable while on the rotation. I don't really know what they will actually allow a medical student do on such a rotation.

I recommend getting your hands on Lange's Clinical Anesthesiology by Morgan, Mikhail, and Murray. It contains a good overview of all areas of our field, including a synopsis of basic science related to each field. For example, you read the Neuroanesthesia section prior to a few days on the Neuro floor, you'll shine. Also, be a cool person, hard worker, and non-butt kisser. You'll do great. I've also heard some people recommend Anesthesiology Secrets, which I purchased, but never touched. For what it's worth, I got several letters from my away rotations, and they proved very valuable in helping me match at my #1 choice. Help the resident anyway possible, and have a sense of when it is time to get out of the way, or even move to another room.

Do not spend too much time with one resident. I think the best way to accomplish a valuable letter experience is to pick 2-3 residents, and spend the first 2 weeks of the month with them, alternating every few days. If you aren't getting good vibes, back off, but keep the number 2-3. Once you've established some rapport, ask them about which attendings are 1) the coolest, 2) the most influential, and 3) most likely to want to teach/write good letters. Use the last 2 weeks to transition towards working with 2 attendings (you should always do more than one, as a backup). Hit up one or both of the attendings at the end of your rotation for letters, and make sure to thank the residents when all is said and done. This kind of strategy really can help put you over the edge with regards to matching and getting great letters.
 
Originally Posted by Emma
First, I'd like to thank both of you for contributing to this forum. Your knowledge means a lot to us here.

As for my question, I am going to start soon at a caribbean medical school, and I wanted to know if there are many FMG's that you have noticed in your field?

Also, what is more likely for someone to do for a residency: categorical or
a preliminary year and then a advanced position?

Thanks again!

Times are getting tougher I'm told, at least from speaking to my friends who attended Ross and St. Georges. However, all is not lost: A friend of a friend, who attended a carribbean school, matched just this year at Mayo Clinic-Jacksonville! You'll need to really do your best on the Steps and clinicals. If you do that, you should be fine to match at a solid program. Remember: in Anesthesiology, there are many programs applicants should avoid. I'm not sure about your cat vs prelim/adv question. Check FREIDA. http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/2997.html
 
I have a question about an Anesthesiologist's scope of practice. Are most hospital codes ran by MDAs, or are they usually ran by either the closest attending or a different speciaty all together?

It really depends on where the code is and how the hospital is set up. Codes in the OR, PACU and L&D are obviously dealt by anesthesiologists. This may include MRI/CT or endoscopy suite. A lot is determined by the arrangements between the hospital and group. In academics, there is traditionally an anesthesiology resident for airway management. They usually assist in the code, but these are typically managed by the primary team (depending on service). Anesthesia handles the airway, surgery on call handles the vascular access, medicine may handle the true "running". Of course, every hospital is different. Non academic hospitals sometimes won't have code teams and rely on whoever is arounds. At night that usually means the emergency physician (sometimes anesthesiology if in-house).

Now I have a question for you: I note you're a pre-med, yet refer to anesthesiologists as MDAs. How did you learn of this? Many of us consider offensive (MDA is a recruitment abbreviation and there are political implications with its use). Just curious.
 
Now I have a question for you: I note you're a pre-med, yet refer to anesthesiologists as MDAs. How did you learn of this? Many of us consider offensive (MDA is a recruitment abbreviation and there are political implications with its use). Just curious.

It was how the anesthesiologists at my hospitals referred to themselves. For example on their badges it says "William Baker MDA" also on the phone sheets posted throughout surgery are groups of numbers "Managers", "Surgery Rooms", "MDAs" etc.

So I assumed since the anesthesia group had created their own ID badges separate from our hospital that they probably either preferred or at the least were not offended by the term MDA.
 
It was how the anesthesiologists at my hospitals referred to themselves. For example on their badges it says "William Baker MDA" also on the phone sheets posted throughout surgery are groups of numbers "Managers", "Surgery Rooms", "MDAs" etc.

So I assumed since the anesthesia group had created their own ID badges separate from our hospital that they probably either preferred or at the least were not offended by the term MDA.

That's interesting. I haven't seen that before (though there is a locum tenens company by those initials). I wonder if it's their practice name. It's not a widely accepted abbreviation, particularly on SDN. For the political aspects, the anesthesiology forum has more.
 
What percentage of Anesthesiologists perform pain blocks? What are the main benefits of a pain block pre-surgery? Also I am aware some anesthesiologists perform blocks not before surgery but as a means to relieve pain. How useful is this and what type of training is involved in performing pain blocks for this purpose?

Thanks guys! :)

There's regional anesthesia and pain medicine. Regional anesthesia can be used for post operative pain management (ie an epidural catheter after GI surgery) or as the intraoperative anesthetic (like a spinal aka intrathecal injection or brachial plexus block). Patient and surgeon preference plays a large role. For example, last week I had a patient who flew across the country to get a prostatectomy under spinal because this particular urologist is known and one of the few who does them like that.

I'd guess that 100% of anesthesiologists know how to do regional. Maybe not the more sophisticated methods, but major nerve blocks and neuraxial techniques (epidural/spinal) are required.

There's a theory that blocking the nerve (with local anesthetic) prior to the onset of pain improves long term pain outcomes. I don't know that data on that. It would be a good question to ask the anesthesia forum (you'll get a wide range of opinions).

As for the training, everything except the most advanced techniques are included in residency. There are regional anesthesia fellowships out there too.
 
I'd like to know about how the job market will look for anesthesiologists in the future? Will the demand be as high as it is now, or will fellowship training be required to be able to work?
Thanks

It's impossible to know. With the aging population, the number of surgical procedures will continue to increase. But, Medicare pays poorly so the income may drop. That's the importance in choosing a specialty that you like versus one that pays a lot NOW. It could always change.
 
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