Annoyed

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

cwb

Member
7+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
20+ Year Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2003
Messages
61
Reaction score
0
I'm going to go on a little rant here... I am so freaking annoyed by everyone telling me how little doctors make, how it's not a good field to go into, how they're field is so great, etc... etc... Last night I had 3 separate encounters - 2 with dental students and one with a pharmacy student. They find out I'm in medical school and immediately go into this rant about how they are going to make almost as much as physicians, how physicians lives suck, etc etc... My response, "Yeah you have to be really secure to be a physician because people with insecurities are always trying to tear down what you are doing - you are right it is very hard to always put up with but I guess that any field where I literally get to save a person's life is something that I would never give up, unlike other health professions in which you can possibly improve a life but never get that ultimate satisfaction." Their response? Get really pissed off and start talking about how conceited I am to their friends.... That's pretty interesting considering I could really care less what they do - yet they immediately start tearing down something that I work my ass off for before they even know a thing about me. Anyone have this problem and if so know of good ways to deal with it?
 
I'm going to go on a little rant here... I am so freaking annoyed by everyone telling me how little doctors make, how it's not a good field to go into, how they're field is so great, etc... etc... Last night I had 3 separate encounters - 2 with dental students and one with a pharmacy student. They find out I'm in medical school and immediately go into this rant about how they are going to make almost as much as physicians, how physicians lives suck, etc etc... My response, "Yeah you have to be really secure to be a physician because people with insecurities are always trying to tear down what you are doing - you are right it is very hard to always put up with but I guess that any field where I literally get to save a person's life is something that I would never give up, unlike other health professions in which you can possibly improve a life but never get that ultimate satisfaction." Their response? Get really pissed off and start talking about how conceited I am to their friends.... That's pretty interesting considering I could really care less what they do - yet they immediately start tearing down something that I work my ass off for before they even know a thing about me. Anyone have this problem and if so know of good ways to deal with it?


If you are happy with your decision it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks, and shouldn't be so important for you to respond. If you had just responded with "whatever", everyone would have been happy. Let the other folks be happy with what they are doing and let them think it is a better path than yours. At the end of the day, you can sleep comfortably knowing they aren't really seeing the same view you are.
 
I'm going to go on a little rant here... I am so freaking annoyed by everyone telling me how little doctors make, how it's not a good field to go into, how they're field is so great, etc... etc... Last night I had 3 separate encounters - 2 with dental students and one with a pharmacy student. They find out I'm in medical school and immediately go into this rant about how they are going to make almost as much as physicians, how physicians lives suck, etc etc... My response, "Yeah you have to be really secure to be a physician because people with insecurities are always trying to tear down what you are doing - you are right it is very hard to always put up with but I guess that any field where I literally get to save a person's life is something that I would never give up, unlike other health professions in which you can possibly improve a life but never get that ultimate satisfaction." Their response? Get really pissed off and start talking about how conceited I am to their friends.... That's pretty interesting considering I could really care less what they do - yet they immediately start tearing down something that I work my ass off for before they even know a thing about me. Anyone have this problem and if so know of good ways to deal with it?

Heh, good answer, and way to put them in their place. I figured it was a given nowadays that people don't go into medicine for the money. I'm sure they're dealing with their own insecurities of knowing they never could have gotten into medical school - and are therefore asserting the only "leg up" they have on physicians.
 
I guess there are several approaches to this. You can choose to argue with them or not. It is true that the medical profession is changing and there are more pressures on many doctors -- also compensation downward pressures exist. I had more than a few _doctors_ try to talk me out of going into the medical profession -- they would not do it again. I'm not pretending that I'm going to like everything about medicine, but I'm convinced it's a good fit for me. Everyone needs to make their own assessment. If it's the right fit for you, no other career will be as enjoyable.
 
Heh, good answer, and way to put them in their place. I figured it was a given nowadays that people don't go into medicine for the money. I'm sure they're dealing with their own insecurities of knowing they never could have gotten into medical school - and are therefore asserting the only "leg up" they have on physicians.

I'll second this. My brother-in-law is a fairly successful dentist and he rants and raves about great his profession is and how I should have gone into dentistry to join his practice, when in reality he only went to dental school because he couldn't conquer the VR section of the MCAT 10 years ago.

It seems like many dentists I talk to these days are suffering from this same insecurity about not going to medical school. Here's a conversation I had with my new dentist.

Dentist: "So, Goose-d, what brings you to the area?"
Me: "I just started medical school here this fall"
[long awkward pause]
Dentist: "I wanted to go to medical school once, but I couldn't pass histo in undergrad because I am colorblind"
Me: "Didn't you have to take histo in dental school?"
Dentist: "Well yeah, but..."

😕
 
Dentist: "I wanted to go to medical school once, but I couldn't pass histo in undergrad because I am colorblind"
:laugh: I haven't laughed this hard in a long time! Thank you for making my day : )
 
Interesting....I've never had this problem, in fact, quite the opposite. My doctors have all expressed high satisfaction with their chosen practice (even---shudder---my family doc who should be dismayed that he has to do FM 😉 ). Perhaps it's because my doctors work in a prosperous part of town and they are well compensated....who knows? My dentist was also very happy to hear that I was attending med school, even sent me off saying that "medicine is a great profession, I have a lot of MD friends who are happy in the field".

And perhaps it's just my circle of friends, but the most negative thing I've heard about medicine is that 'medicine is so tough and the road is so long, pharmacy is a good option because you get paid good money and it's only six years total'. Of course, it stands to reason that most people won't tell me to my face (as an MS1) that I picked a horrible field and they are smarter for avoiding it. But if someone decided to have a pissing contest with me regarding medicine vs. their chosen field, I'd politely tell them why I didn't chose their fields and why I believe medicine is right for me.

There was a time when I was unsure what I wanted to do and did some personal reflection and serious research on other professions, so I consider my decision to enter medicine a well thought out choice and not done on a whim for superficial reasons. I wonder if some of those people who would question others about their chosen profession could say the same?🙄
 
I'm going to go on a little rant here... I am so freaking annoyed by everyone telling me how little doctors make, how it's not a good field to go into, how they're field is so great, etc... etc... Last night I had 3 separate encounters - 2 with dental students and one with a pharmacy student. They find out I'm in medical school and immediately go into this rant about how they are going to make almost as much as physicians, how physicians lives suck, etc etc... My response, "Yeah you have to be really secure to be a physician because people with insecurities are always trying to tear down what you are doing - you are right it is very hard to always put up with but I guess that any field where I literally get to save a person's life is something that I would never give up, unlike other health professions in which you can possibly improve a life but never get that ultimate satisfaction." Their response? Get really pissed off and start talking about how conceited I am to their friends.... That's pretty interesting considering I could really care less what they do - yet they immediately start tearing down something that I work my ass off for before they even know a thing about me. Anyone have this problem and if so know of good ways to deal with it?

People are ridiculing doctors because doctors themselves are going all over the place telling people how horrible the profession is. Go to the residency forum and you will find enough posts on how every other profession is better than medicine. Just to add insult on top of injury I met a lab technician that told me his job was way better than being a doctor.
 
I get a little annoyed because all of these other fields elevated their programs to doctoral level and insiston being called Dr. Soandso. Hospitals are confusing enough for patients without nursing, pt/ot, and pharmacy people introducing themselves Dr. What the patient really want is their "doctor," the guy with the MD.
 
cwb - I concur with Law2Doc here. I'm a pharmacist who never, ever wanted to go into medicine. My husband is a dentist who also never wanted to go into medicine (oh - he's not colorblind either😉 ). But...we're really happy with what we do & would never convince others their path is not right & they should follow ours. To do that lessens the value of the choice we made as well as the choice others make for themselves.

However....you can't convince others of the "rightness" of the path for yourself. A simple "I'm glad you're happy with your field" should be sufficient & will be obvious you don't want to get involved in a debate. Its hard to place a motive or justifiction for the ridicule or need to tear someone else down to reinforce their own decision...but if you don't allow yourself to be vulnurable..it will roll right off you.

Learning this technique early will help you fend off all sorts of socially awkward moments in the years to come when someone wants to share their medical moment or get some advice from you which is in an inappropriate time or place. A bland...."thats interesting" or "is that so?" often gets you out of difficult spots.

Oh...and I do believe there is a difference in how we all think & approach our fields. Our daughter is in medicine - she wouldn't be happy in either of our fields, but is happy as a clam in medicine. Not better nor worse - just different & happy as we are in ours.

Good luck & I hope you enjoy the mutual respect in the years ahead I've had in mine!
 
I get a little annoyed because all of these other fields elevated their programs to doctoral level and insiston being called Dr. Soandso. Hospitals are confusing enough for patients without nursing, pt/ot, and pharmacy people introducing themselves Dr. What the patient really want is their "doctor," the guy with the MD.

Please see the zillion other threads that have degenerated into a flamewar over this issue before bringing it up again.
 
All good points - I just have a really hard time letting things like this slide... I feel like other health professionals always have to bash docs or talk about how glamorous their job is to make up for some shortfall. Yet if I was to have started the conversation last night with (and I don't at all feel this way) "Wow, you're a dentist - god I could never be dentist all you do is clean teeth - being a real doctor is great we actually help people... Why didn't you become a real doctor - oh yeah I forgot it's easier to get into dental school. I would say dentists make good money but that's hard to do because our average salaries are higher! Have you ever watched ER or House? Is there a show like that for dentists? Oh yeah I didn't think so because it would involve everyone sitting around scraping gunk off of teeth - doesn't sound like very much fun!" I literally would have been hung - yet I'm expected to sit here and put up with this in nearly every conversation I'm a part of - interesting.

Ah well, I guess in our position you have to be the bigger person but still - I just wish everyone could get along and be happy with the decisions they made (or at least not talk to me about them). But anyways - I didn't mean for this to be negative - just an observation I had and one that bothered me and the anonymity of the internet allows me to vent without repercussion =).
 
My view is that engaging in such conversations is tantamount to troll-feeding. I think that the important part of health care in this country, for better or worse, is that it is interdisciplinary. I would not pretend that I know how to fill cavities, nor will I ever be more skilled at reading a blood smear diff than a med tech. As far as money goes, there is something to be said for a job in which patients often pay you cash for your services (plastic surgery, dentistry, chiropractic), and the cost of education for a PA is nothing compared to medicine at a state school. While docs' salaries will be tough to ascertain ten years from now, most still think that you'll get your money back in the long run.

I am a med student, yes, but if I were looking for a health practitioner to breed with, I'd probably be more inclined to hunt for a pharmacist or PA as long as I didn't work directly with them.

Let's not pretend that television actually represents reality. People at home are fascinated by powerful hot people kicking arse in the daytime and screwing each other at night. That pretty much sums up all of TV drama. There are no TV shows about derm, rads, optho, or anesthesiology despite their relative high desirability among successful medical students. ID/Nephro (is that what House is double-boarded in?) and Pathology (CSI) are not as desirable to docs as TV makes them seem. Nip/Tuck may be a show where competativeness of residency relates to lay interest. EM is popular more for lifestyle reasons than the aspects glamorized on the tube.
 
Wizard is correct....on some points. The only point I may disagree with is his choice of "breeding partner"....as SO's (particularly female ones), we object to being referred to as someone to "breed" with - we hope we provide more to you than that😛 .....I know it was said in jest so don't react...I'm just joking back😀 !

However, I agree with you.....so much of healthcare is fantansy to others. That is part of our job - to break the fantasy down to what is real & what they can understand.

cwb...this part of learning your job...the letting things roll off you is not strictly within healthcare. Every pond has it heirachy....you all came from education - some high school teachers think they are better or more important than elementary school teachers. On factory lines....one riveter may think himself a more important riveter than another because his nametag says supervisor. Part of this is growing up. You will grow up emotionally & develop a thicker skin because you will have to - your job will require it. Some people never do...I still work with pharmacists who find the need to denigrate others - I long ago stopped trying to figure out why...it has nothing to do with my career satisfaction.

Since you are recognizing the need to be the bigger person...you will be & be the better person ultimately!! Come here anytime to vent - it won't be the last!

Oh...when (if????) you do get any free time.....rent "Little Shop of Horrors" - it was made into a movie, which is old now, but originally was a stage play on Broadway.......its a funny show with a dentist as one of the main characters (who btw....always seem to be portrayed as the "oddball" & certainly this character was one).

Anyway...good luck to you all! You have a long road & you don't need anyone disparaging you along the way.
 
... - I just wish everyone could get along and be happy with the decisions they made (or at least not talk to me about them)...

"I want to bake a cake made out of rainbows and smiles, and we could all eat it and be happy"
 
I'm going to go on a little rant here... I am so freaking annoyed by everyone telling me how little doctors make, how it's not a good field to go into, how they're field is so great, etc... etc... Last night I had 3 separate encounters - 2 with dental students and one with a pharmacy student. They find out I'm in medical school and immediately go into this rant about how they are going to make almost as much as physicians, how physicians lives suck, etc etc... My response, "Yeah you have to be really secure to be a physician because people with insecurities are always trying to tear down what you are doing - you are right it is very hard to always put up with but I guess that any field where I literally get to save a person's life is something that I would never give up, unlike other health professions in which you can possibly improve a life but never get that ultimate satisfaction." Their response? Get really pissed off and start talking about how conceited I am to their friends.... That's pretty interesting considering I could really care less what they do - yet they immediately start tearing down something that I work my ass off for before they even know a thing about me. Anyone have this problem and if so know of good ways to deal with it?

The best thing to say in such a circumstance is "yeah, dentistry is a good field to get into. it just wasn't for me." That way, they're disarmed, and it puts closure to the situation.
 
some words of wisdom from cfdavid; never chase the money. cause, even if you're successful, it doesn't mean you'll be happy or fullfilled. do what you can see yourself doing over the long haul and, within reason, don't prioritize that around income levels (I said within reason! lol)
 
some words of wisdom from cfdavid; never chase the money. cause, even if you're successful, it doesn't mean you'll be happy or fullfilled. do what you can see yourself doing over the long haul and, within reason, don't prioritize that around income levels (I said within reason! lol)

Good thing that you emphasized the "within reason". My cousin took this kind of advice out of context and decided to become a professional video game player(I think they have some national competitions). Now the family has to help him with his rent. That is one guy I wish would have chased the money.
 
teeth? Teeth! blehck.

We should feel sorry for lawyers too.
 
I actually like it when people tell me how horrible medicine is and that doctors don't make any money. It makes us seem more dedicated, hard working and altruistic then we really are.
 
"I want to bake a cake made out of rainbows and smiles, and we could all eat it and be happy"

Actually, there is such a cake. Or brownies ... which ever you prefer.
 
I'm going to go on a little rant here... I am so freaking annoyed by everyone telling me how little doctors make, how it's not a good field to go into, how they're field is so great, etc... etc... Last night I had 3 separate encounters - 2 with dental students and one with a pharmacy student. They find out I'm in medical school and immediately go into this rant about how they are going to make almost as much as physicians, how physicians lives suck, etc etc... My response, "Yeah you have to be really secure to be a physician because people with insecurities are always trying to tear down what you are doing - you are right it is very hard to always put up with but I guess that any field where I literally get to save a person's life is something that I would never give up, unlike other health professions in which you can possibly improve a life but never get that ultimate satisfaction." Their response? Get really pissed off and start talking about how conceited I am to their friends.... That's pretty interesting considering I could really care less what they do - yet they immediately start tearing down something that I work my ass off for before they even know a thing about me. Anyone have this problem and if so know of good ways to deal with it?


You are all arguing out of ignorance. The odds are good (but it's by no means certain) that in five or six years you'll have wished you had done something else in life.

And your life, at least the logistical part of it, is indeed going to suck for the next seven to eleven years. I'm not saying medicine isn't a good job but maybe you need to wait a while before building it up so much.

The way to deal with this sort of thing is not to deal with it. Just nod and say, "You're right. I'm an idiot. If I wasn't so compulsive I'd probably do something fun with my life."

Why argue?
 
People are ridiculing doctors because doctors themselves are going all over the place telling people how horrible the profession is. Go to the residency forum and you will find enough posts on how every other profession is better than medicine. Just to add insult on top of injury I met a lab technician that told me his job was way better than being a doctor.


There's probably a good reason for this.
 
Just out of curiosity, are there professions you think are clearly better? Could you name a few?

This kind question has led to answers that demoralize medstudents, so watch out.
 
Just out of curiosity, are there professions you think are clearly better? Could you name a few?

Although your question was not directed to me, I would say that "better" is going to be tough to define in that it has huge subjective components. What is better for one person won't necessarilly be better for another. For anyone that focuses in on a given aspect of medicine s/he doesn't like, there is going to be a career that doesn't have that same issue. So there are certainly fields that won't have a handful of the same issues someone doesn't like in medicine. Does that make that field "better"? For them, yes, for someone else with a different laundry list of issues, probably not.
Sorry to muddy the waters.🙂
 
My response to those guys that tell me I should go into Dentistry for the lifestyle/money is : "Yeah, but then I would have to be a dentist." Besides, although I don't completely agree with the Dr. Bear bleak outlook, it is really easy to bitch about how hard your life is. I think I could be in a position to bitch about my job in 7 years no matter what it is. Dentistry, Pharmacy, Medicine, Farming, whatever, life has a propensity to suck, and we like to rub it in each others faces from time to time.
 
Nothing prevents you from pursuing one of those jobs. Everyone has different values and priorities. It is important to evaluate what yours are, gather relevant information about different jobs, and then make the best decision for you.

You are right Everyone has different values and that is why I am pursuing medicine. But I am not of the illusion that it is remotely close to being the best profession out there. I put up that list to squash the whole "better jobs" issue before this thread degenerates into the usual "I should have done something better with my life" thread.
 
You are right Everyone has different values and that is why I am pursuing medicine. But I am not of the illusion that it is remotely close to being the best profession out there. I put up that list to squash the whole "better jobs" issue before this thread degenerates into the usual "I should have done something better with my life" thread.

I assume you were joking about the list.

Law2Doc is right that best is a personal quality. If you don't think that medicine is the best job out there, for you, why are you going into it? Unless you couldn't get into a different field you think is better, or you're irrational, you probably do think medicine is the best job out there, at least for you.
 
Basically all the jobs between from 1 and 29 on this list http://money.cnn.com/magazines/moneymag/bestjobs/top50/index.html
Software engineer? No thanks. HR director? My friend is ready to gouge his eyes out. Actuary? My PI was ready to commit ritualistic suicide after doing this for a few years. He said he actually got up every day and asked himself if he should call in and quit.

Sure, some people love those lines of work, but if they don't interest you, what's the point? I respect Panda's point of view, but I HAVE talked to a number of docs who DO like what they're doing the vast majority of the time, believe it or not. I expect to have crappy days - maybe quite a few in a row - it is just a job after all, but there are plenty of people who like (gasp) their jobs.

And the physician/surgeon is making 2-3 times as much as #1-29. Sure, the doc's salary might be inflated, but no more than the rest of them.
 
Software engineer? No thanks. HR director? My friend is ready to gouge his eyes out. Actuary? My PI was ready to commit ritualistic suicide after doing this for a few years. He said he actually got up every day and asked himself if he should call in and quit.

Sure, some people love those lines of work, but if they don't interest you, what's the point? I respect Panda's point of view, but I HAVE talked to a number of docs who DO like what they're doing the vast majority of the time, believe it or not. I expect to have crappy days - maybe quite a few in a row - it is just a job after all, but there are plenty of people who like (gasp) their jobs.

And the physician/surgeon is making 2-3 times as much as #1-29. Sure, the doc's salary might be inflated, but no more than the rest of them.

Completely agree. And while I respect Panda's opinion, whenever I hear this kind of statement about medicine, I want to ask what's better.
 
My experience working has been that working sucks. And a LOT of the jobs out there that really seem great would probably be closed off to me due to lack of money and connections. I mean, I would prefer to be independently wealthy so that I could pursue whatever I thought was cool at the moment and never have to worry about making money from my work.
Since I have to work, I have to make money from working, and I already think that most jobs suck, I think I can handle medicine sucking at times if it means I get to do what I want to do.
 
Teehee, it's threads like this that make me glad I didn't shuffle right on into medical school from undergrad. I worked in the "real" world for a couple years and did all kinds of stuff (employment wise... no research really). Let's see... waited tables... call center/client service for a large brokerage company (you think patients are nasty over issues about their health, lemme tell yas, it's NOTHING compared to how people get over their money... heh), uh oh yeah I worked night audit at a couple hotels... I was a software developer (real actual salaried position... cubicles suck, that movie office space really ain't far off I'm tellin' ya)... ho hum, oh yeah I finished out my last few months before matriculating in a cush job in a public health office... now THAT was fun... talk about congestion, I've never been through so many meetings about meeting to make more meetings. Subcommittees for meetings about other panels to recommend focus groups which created more committees to organize meetings about "reframing" (love that word) issues... which, mostly resulted in.... yup, more meetings.

I dunno, yeah so far medicine's got its fair share of BS but I mean at the end of the day I still think that MD's have a place of respect and authority for most people, in spite of patient autonomy, in spite of NRPs, PAs, whoever else. If you're well groomed pleasant and speak sorta well and your name has an MD at the end, you're gonna be alright and regarded better than a software developer, I'm convinced.
 
My view is that engaging in such conversations is tantamount to troll-feeding. I think that the important part of health care in this country, for better or worse, is that it is interdisciplinary. I would not pretend that I know how to fill cavities, nor will I ever be more skilled at reading a blood smear diff than a med tech. As far as money goes, there is something to be said for a job in which patients often pay you cash for your services (plastic surgery, dentistry, chiropractic), and the cost of education for a PA is nothing compared to medicine at a state school. While docs' salaries will be tough to ascertain ten years from now, most still think that you'll get your money back in the long run.

I am a med student, yes, but if I were looking for a health practitioner to breed with, I'd probably be more inclined to hunt for a pharmacist or PA as long as I didn't work directly with them.
.

The whole, "everyone has valuable skills we should appreciate" is legitimate, but not really the issue he's discussing. He's pointing out a double-standard physicians and future physicians have to bear, exacerbated by the fact that peripheral care providers' respect for the role of the physician is declining. It sounds like he's saying that people lower in the hierarchy make subtle derision of future physicians but he would be considered "out of line" to make the same comments in return.

Of course, the advice given previously to "just let it go" is appropriate, but it sounds like we're hearing what happens when people take enough seemingly unearned shots at a person. It used to be the case where people would say potentially denigrating things about physicians, but the understanding still stood that physicians still have the power and are pretty much universally respected. Nowadays, that has morphed into a sort of "socially justifiable criticism", since the emergence of the new healthcare paradigm of "physicians and their care are expensive" has fostered the growth and allotment of power and practice rights to peripheral and midlevel providers. Not surprisingly, the power struggle (not as dramatic as that to most) has ramifications more personal in nature - resulting in some hostility and professional contention probably due mostly to insecurity and a legitimate desire to be respected. So it's not that people are "out of line" to criticize, it's that they're acting as to be expected considering the professional dynamic out there.

Go look at any flame war between MD's and pretty much any other provider (DPM, PA, RN, DNP, etc.) and you'll see at least one or two people arguing the similarities between their profession (or themselves) and a physician. Again - they're probably justified in doing so, since of course similarities exist. But, unfortunately, MD's have become comfortable with their power monopoly and have grown to expect that people respect that physicians provide a service no one else can provide. Shining light on the fact that parts of our role may be replaceable and on the similarities between us and providers lower in the hierarchy instead of what makes us special and unique conflicts with those preconceived expectations and may make us feel like the respect we get falls short of what we "deserve" (expect).

It's controversial because, 1) there may be consequences (health-related and legal) to relieving physicians of practice rights by extending them to others, again because of this idea that we provide a service no one else can, 2) egos are involved, and 3) you've got to wonder if this dynamic hasn't emerged because of the financial structure that prioritizes cutting costs of providing healthcare and a more modern, egalitarian professional infrastructure.

The fact that they criticize you and your profession probably just reflects insecurity, however.
 
"Wow, you're a dentist - god I could never be dentist all you do is clean teeth

Many people seem to have this misconception. This makes you sound very ignorant. I understand that dentistry does not interest you but do not trivialize it.
 
Many people seem to have this misconception. This makes you sound very ignorant. I understand that dentistry does not interest you but do not trivialize it.

We don't trvialize it. We just put it equal to pharmacy.
 
I'm going to go on a little rant here... I am so freaking annoyed by everyone telling me how little doctors make, how it's not a good field to go into, how they're field is so great, etc... etc... Last night I had 3 separate encounters - 2 with dental students and one with a pharmacy student. They find out I'm in medical school and immediately go into this rant about how they are going to make almost as much as physicians, how physicians lives suck, etc etc... My response, "Yeah you have to be really secure to be a physician because people with insecurities are always trying to tear down what you are doing - you are right it is very hard to always put up with but I guess that any field where I literally get to save a person's life is something that I would never give up, unlike other health professions in which you can possibly improve a life but never get that ultimate satisfaction." Their response? Get really pissed off and start talking about how conceited I am to their friends.... That's pretty interesting considering I could really care less what they do - yet they immediately start tearing down something that I work my ass off for before they even know a thing about me. Anyone have this problem and if so know of good ways to deal with it?

The dental students shouldn't have made those comments, but your response was undeniably conceited. You basically said, "I'm secure. You're not. I save lives. You don't"

You're gonna have to get used to this. Many people think their profession is manna from heaven and every other route is pursued by idiots. This holds true with graduate professionals, health professionals, and in your own glorious MD world. When it's time for residency selection, you'll see that people won't care anymore that you chose to be a physician just like them, only that you were an idiot for pursuing a specialty that is not theirs.

The best attitude towards this is just understand that everyone has a purpose in medicine and in the healthcare community. Everyone should be treated with value and respect. I think YOU understand this concept. What you don't get is that NOT EVERYONE DOES. This leads to specialty bashing. As stated before, the best response is "yeah, whatever, blah, blah, I'm happy".
 
What's the difference between a dentist and a doctor?


Doctors don't call themselves dentists.
 
I think that when most physicians say that they are unhappy in medicine, it is really a function wishing for things to be different. Most of us that have held other jobs know that there is a load of BS associated with any job. Medicine is really just built up so much, that we may find it disappointing to learn that it is like anything else. It is also depressing to watch many aspects of medicine fall apart. It is probably also a bit disappointing to watch your salary drop 50% as you work more.

For those yearning for the magic days of old, they are gone. In many ways, I say good riddance. My wife's grandfather, who practiced GI for many years, recounts the story of his first rotation of intern year when he worked 72 hours on, with 12 off. He ran the ER by himself, because there was no quality control and the resident quit. The attendings were never around. I say we really DON'T need to return to that. I can live with a 20% drop in the "respect" poll.

Also, in terms of salary, doctor's salaries took a huge upswing at the advent of medicare when all of the geriatric charity patients were suddenly being paid for. If you look at salaries before then, they were not better accounting for inflation than now. We just lived large on the backs of the taxpayer for a few years. Of course we now have to deal with all sorts of market distortions as a result of this little intervention. This may be the one negative. In the past, salaries were really based on market supply and demand. Students could know what they were getting into without fear of Medicare rate cuts.
 
There is more outright bull**** associated with medical training (and probably practicing) than with any other job I have ever done. We even have more bull**** than in the military if you can believe it. It has been such a relief to me to finally get into a resdidency program that tries to keep the bull**** to a minimum, what we have is unavoidable and the result of the absolutely screwy way health care is bought and sold.

What job is better? Well, I was a self-employed structural engineer and except for a continueing education requirement and some licensing fees, the bull**** was non-existant. You can do this if you're the boss and subcontract most of your (engineering) scutwork. Plus engineers get paid for being productive, clients pay by the hour, and they hate throwing money away.

I liked being a Marine but I don't think I would have liked making a career out of it.
 
Originally Posted by beetlerum
Just out of curiosity, are there professions you think are clearly better? Could you name a few?


Actually, there have been quite a few mornings where I was walking in to class, and passed the grounds crew shovelling mulch, etc, and thought it looked like more fun than going to class.
 
There is more outright bull**** associated with medical training (and probably practicing) than with any other job I have ever done. We even have more bull**** than in the military if you can believe it. It has been such a relief to me to finally get into a resdidency program that tries to keep the bull**** to a minimum, what we have is unavoidable and the result of the absolutely screwy way health care is bought and sold.

What job is better? Well, I was a self-employed structural engineer and except for a continueing education requirement and some licensing fees, the bull**** was non-existant. You can do this if you're the boss and subcontract most of your (engineering) scutwork. Plus engineers get paid for being productive, clients pay by the hour, and they hate throwing money away.

I liked being a Marine but I don't think I would have liked making a career out of it.

You may have liked your old job and think it free of BS, but I worked in corporate as an engineer, and there was paperwork and scutwork like you wouldn't believe. You were also comfortably self-employed, something that many people are not, which makes a huge difference. For most jobs which require reporting to a supervisor, there is plenty of BSing. I've never met someone who have worked for someone else who did not have to put up with crap. I guess the key is to be self employed but there is also difficulty inherent in being self employed, and it is something many people could never do successfully (nor wish to do). And really, let's not kid ourselves, there's plenty of nonproductivity in engineering when you have to work in groups. I spent six months on my first project only to find out there was a 'miscommunication' and that the project I had worked so hard on was not going to be used since the client was already implementing a different system. So much for not throwing away clients' money. 🙄
 
I feel a lot of my comments have been taken the wrong way (apparently I wasn’t very clear)... Before I said all the stuff about Dentists cleaning teeth and not being real doctors I said that I do not actually think that, I was merely using it as an example - you can clearly see it in my post and must have just overlooked it...

In response to other suggestions - I find it very hard to just sit quietly when someone just blatantly criticizes a huge part of my life. As I said earlier, if I was to go up to one of my friends who just got a job offer and ask how much money he was going to make - then talk about how much more I was going to make and how much better of a lifestyle I was going to have I would probably consider it one of the rudest things I have ever done... Yet I find other health professions doing this rather frequently as if this is normal, everyday conversation – then when I somewhat call them out on it I’m the bad guy (and I've talked about this with my classmates who all feel the same way)...

I guess that was my original point and I feel it my have gotten misconstrued. Concerning the CNN list of best careers - a sales manager (like at Wal-Mart?) rates above a physician? Ummm...OK
 
You may have liked your old job and think it free of BS, but I worked in corporate as an engineer, and there was paperwork and scutwork like you wouldn't believe. You were also comfortably self-employed, something that many people are not, which makes a huge difference. For most jobs which require reporting to a supervisor, there is plenty of BSing. I've never met someone who have worked for someone else who did not have to put up with crap. I guess the key is to be self employed but there is also difficulty inherent in being self employed, and it is something many people could never do successfully (nor wish to do). And really, let's not kid ourselves, there's plenty of nonproductivity in engineering when you have to work in groups. I spent six months on my first project only to find out there was a 'miscommunication' and that the project I had worked so hard on was not going to be used since the client was already implementing a different system. So much for not throwing away clients' money. 🙄

I hear you. That's why I three months after I got my PE license I quit my job at a engineering firm that was really into those motivational posters and went to work for myself. Of course I had some administrative stuff to do but I never had ot worry about long pointless meetings, memos from human resources, diversity training, monthly evaluations, "retreats," or any of the kind of crap so accurately depicted in the movie "Office Space."

That's true freedom. Working for yourself, I mean.

People used to tell me, "Sure, you work for yourself but you don't have job security." Job security is a myth. You can get layed off from any job if your company loses business.
 
In response to other suggestions - I find it very hard to just sit quietly when someone just blatantly criticizes a huge part of my life.

You really need a thicker skin. You are doing what you want to do, in a field of your choosing. Who cares what other people think? Are you that insecure that it genuinely bothers you when other professions say theirs is better? I still think you need to just consider this to be meaningless ribbing and just laugh it off.
Go buy a book of doctor jokes, and stop taking this kind of stuff so seriously.
 
I feel a lot of my comments have been taken the wrong way (apparently I wasn't very clear)... Before I said all the stuff about Dentists cleaning teeth and not being real doctors I said that I do not actually think that, I was merely using it as an example - you can clearly see it in my post and must have just overlooked it...

In response to other suggestions - I find it very hard to just sit quietly when someone just blatantly criticizes a huge part of my life. As I said earlier, if I was to go up to one of my friends who just got a job offer and ask how much money he was going to make - then talk about how much more I was going to make and how much better of a lifestyle I was going to have I would probably consider it one of the rudest things I have ever done... Yet I find other health professions doing this rather frequently as if this is normal, everyday conversation – then when I somewhat call them out on it I'm the bad guy (and I've talked about this with my classmates who all feel the same way)...

I guess that was my original point and I feel it my have gotten misconstrued. Concerning the CNN list of best careers - a sales manager (like at Wal-Mart?) rates above a physician? Ummm...OK

A manager of a Wal Mart has a vitally important job, supervise hundreds of employees, and has to keep track of the complexities of inventory and logistics. Not to mention keeping his employees, most of whom are not nearly as dedicated as doctors, motivated and productive. They would probably all quit if they were treated ten percent as poorly as a typical intern making his job as a manager very challenging.

I believe a Wal Mart store manager makes more than most physicians too, which is only fair.
 
Yea.....management is much harder than it seems because you are in constant limbo. You have to keep customers, employees and management from HQ happy all at once....and if you have talked with the majority of people that work at walmart they are not the quickest ones in the bunch...
 
Actually, there have been quite a few mornings where I was walking in to class, and passed the grounds crew shovelling mulch, etc, and thought it looked like more fun than going to class.
It is, for a while. I've done it, and it's pleasant, a lot of the time. But then it rains, and you have to stay out there. Or it freezes, and then it rains, and you still have to wrap up the job. Or you realize that you're making $14/hour, and that's about as high as it's going to go in the basic landscaping industry. Buying a house and possibly raising a family on $35,000 (before taxes) isn't going to be easy either.
 
Top