Another 25 years?

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coffeebythelake said:
We are doctors. We are basically very well educated blue collar workers. What we call "rich" while it is well beyond thr average American is not the type of rich that bankers think of. Unless you are doing some boutique or concierge medicine we hang out with people on all socioeconomic classes and backgrounds.

Personally I believe in contributing to my children's education and futures the same way my parents did for me. I think a lot of immigrant families understand the hardships involved as a 1st generation immigrant and work hard to give their kids a better (not spoiled) life
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Depends on what your definition of “rich” is. It’s all relative. And really people in our income level are far from blue collar. Come on. $400k is blue collar? On what planet?
And I fully plan on having my hypothetical kid have some skin in the game. Don’t believe in Ivy League schools as I think it’s more about what you put in it than the name.
I went to a Private school for one semester and those spoiled “rich” kids where clueless at how others lived and had to work their way through life. They were used to getting whatever they wanted. Brand new luxury cars for their 16th birthdays. Debutante balls. In awe that I had to actually work part time to support myself and pay for school. I ran far away to the “commoner” schools.

Yah, uhm no thanks. Skin in the game. No spoiled, clueless, entitled kids for me.
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chocomorsel said:
m

Depends on what your definition of “rich” is. It’s all relative. And really people in our income level are far from blue collar. Come on. $400k is blue collar? On what planet?
And I fully plan on having my hypothetical kid have some skin in the game. Don’t believe in Ivy League schools as I think it’s more about what you put in it than the name.
I went to a Private school for one semester and those spoiled “rich” kids where clueless at how others lived and had to work their way through life. They were used to getting whatever they wanted. Brand new luxury cars for their 16th birthdays. Debutante balls. In awe that I had to actually work part time to support myself and pay for school. I ran far away to the “commoner” schools.

Yah, uhm no thanks. Skin in the game. No spoiled, clueless, entitled kids for me.
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Blue collar in the sense that a doctor must actually show up and produce something to get paid unlike business and tech jobs.
 
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pgg said:
Agreed. With 2 kids done with school now and the 3rd entering her junior year of college, I can't think of a better way to give them an advantage over peers and open up more opportunities (eg freedom to take lower paying jobs that are better fits, more school, higher risk / greater reward paths) than starting life debt free with a degree.

I still fund their Roths too. At some point my wife and I are going to die and they'll inherit everything anyway. Annual Roth-sized gifts compounding tax free for decades and avoiding any future middle-class estate taxes is the best of all intergenerational wealth transfer. It's a good way to teach them how to invest, too.
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Sure but is it immoral/wrong/miserly to chose to not do that?
 
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pgg said:
Agreed. With 2 kids done with school now and the 3rd entering her junior year of college, I can't think of a better way to give them an advantage over peers and open up more opportunities (eg freedom to take lower paying jobs that are better fits, more school, higher risk / greater reward paths) than starting life debt free with a degree.

I still fund their Roths too. At some point my wife and I are going to die and they'll inherit everything anyway. Annual Roth-sized gifts compounding tax free for decades and avoiding any future middle-class estate taxes is the best of all intergenerational wealth transfer. It's a good way to teach them how to invest, too.
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We are doing exactly the same.
 
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chocomorsel said:
m

Depends on what your definition of “rich” is. It’s all relative. And really people in our income level are far from blue collar. Come on. $400k is blue collar? On what planet?
And I fully plan on having my hypothetical kid have some skin in the game. Don’t believe in Ivy League schools as I think it’s more about what you put in it than the name.
I went to a Private school for one semester and those spoiled “rich” kids where clueless at how others lived and had to work their way through life. They were used to getting whatever they wanted. Brand new luxury cars for their 16th birthdays. Debutante balls. In awe that I had to actually work part time to support myself and pay for school. I ran far away to the “commoner” schools.

Yah, uhm no thanks. Skin in the game. No spoiled, clueless, entitled kids for me.
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Yes there are plenty of spoiled, dumb rich kids at the Ivies and other name brand schools. But there are even more smart, ambitious, highly driven kids. Being around the latter can be a powerful motivator. If you or your kid is in the top 1% of intelligence and drive at the place they are at, I think that they need to be in a different place. One where they are about the top quartile or so of intelligence and drive.
 
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chessknt said:
Sure but is it immoral/wrong/miserly to chose to not do that?
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Yes, yes, and an emphatic yes!!! Lol.
My friend is about to dish out 40k a year for his very average to below average son’s college costs at liberal private university. And still saving for the other one who is even a poorer student than the older one. Those kids are so spoiled.
C students and below. I don’t even know how he got into that college. Some places will just take your money. SMH
 
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chocomorsel said:
Yes, yes, and an emphatic yes!!! Lol.
My friend is about to dish out 40k a year for his very average to below average son’s college costs at liberal private university. And still saving for the other one who is even a poorer student than the older one. Those kids are so spoiled.
C students and below. I don’t even know how he got into that college. Some places will just take your money. SMH
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I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. If that C student graduates the degree will still open doors to jobs where a C student can flourish.

It is EXACTLY the mediocre kids who benefit from parental support like that. The brilliant ones don't need it, they'll succeed regardless. But if a mediocre kid can squeeze through the university program and exit with a degree, all kinds of opportunities appear.

I think your disbelief and confusion about parents boosting their kids to higher economic levels they don't "deserve" is weird. It's as if you're saying that if a kid is not a brilliant high achiever (and honestly how many kids can compare to us, a gaggle of anesthesiologists?) the parents should just let them flounder and figure it out.

I'm blessed with smart kids, but if one had been a C student you better believe I'd have nepotized the **** out of every connection or opportunity to give them an unfair advantage.
 
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chessknt said:
Sure but is it immoral/wrong/miserly to chose to not do that?
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Are they not going to inherit what's leftover from your life? I mean, are you going to purposefully spend every penny so they get nothing? Maybe I'm reading this wrong or just not getting it, but I don't understand a hard wired decision to not financially support your kids. Do you just not like them?
 
Southpaw said:
Are they not going to inherit what's leftover from your life? I mean, are you going to purposefully spend every penny so they get nothing? Maybe I'm reading this wrong or just not getting it, but I don't understand a hard wired decision to not financially support your kids. Do you just not like them?
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I've noticed two variations of this.

1. They will get everything when I die.
2. They aren't getting **** and I'm spending it all or giving it to charity.

My issue with the first type is that I don't understand it. Why would I want to give someone something when I die versus give it to them when I'm alive to get the enjoyment out of it and help them at a presumably younger age? My issue with the second type is that I can't imagine spending that much money if we are talking about doctors here. I have some expensive hobbies and I still couldn't imagine spending that much money. It's a ton of money when you think about how much money a typical doctor could casually save in a career.
 
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Neopolymath said:
I've noticed two variations of this.

1. They will get everything when I die.
2. They aren't getting **** and I'm spending it all or giving it to charity.

My issue with the first type is that I don't understand it. Why would I want to give someone something when I die versus give it to them when I'm alive to get the enjoyment out of it and help them at a presumably younger age?.
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Uncertainty of future financial markets, income, health, needs, wants, etc.
 
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Southpaw said:
Are they not going to inherit what's leftover from your life? I mean, are you going to purposefully spend every penny so they get nothing? Maybe I'm reading this wrong or just not getting it, but I don't understand a hard wired decision to not financially support your kids. Do you just not like them?
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I personally believe it isn’t such an amazing gift to make everything easy for your kids. I think stepping in if there is trouble after giving them a chance to fail is a better approach. I also think the meaning of work has less value when you don’t have to do it because everything is given to you for free so you can focus on academics and the most expensive thing they can buy at that stage in their lives is an education. I think a default to college should not be assumed to be the best case scenario for every kid and they might have other plans (vocational, taking some time to work before deciding on a career path etc) and being told the entire time while they grow up that they are going to college and it’s going to be free might influence them away from the independent decisions they should be learning to make at that point. Finally I think working a minimum wage job will expose them to people and situations they don’t encounter in school that in addition to helping them mature faster and learn to work with other imperfect people it also can help prevent them from turning in to arrogant dinguses who look down on everyone who isn’t on a career path at a Fortune 500 company.

see it isnt always so sinister…
 
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pgg said:
I think you're missing the forest for the trees here. If that C student graduates the degree will still open doors to jobs where a C student can flourish.

It is EXACTLY the mediocre kids who benefit from parental support like that. The brilliant ones don't need it, they'll succeed regardless. But if a mediocre kid can squeeze through the university program and exit with a degree, all kinds of opportunities appear.

I think your disbelief and confusion about parents boosting their kids to higher economic levels they don't "deserve" is weird. It's as if you're saying that if a kid is not a brilliant high achiever (and honestly how many kids can compare to us, a gaggle of anesthesiologists?) the parents should just let them flounder and figure it out.

I'm blessed with smart kids, but if one had been a C student you better believe I'd have nepotized the **** out of every connection or opportunity to give them an unfair advantage.
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See, you are trying to put things in my mouth. I said I didn't believe in Ivy League and even Private Colleges. I believe one can easily succeed if motivated and assisted in a public school.
Rewarding a C student by giving them a full ride to a private liberal arts school when they could just easily as well enroll in the Public State funded one for half the cost is completely idiotic to me. These kids have no drive and I would be damned if I am going to experiment on them possibly failing out of college like 40K is pocket change. Maybe to some of y'all it is.
The whole idea of "I am going to pay for Ivy League, Medical School/Grad School, help them buy their first house, help them network with other rich people in the process" is completely baffling to me and can lead to unrealistic life expectations and entitlement behavior. Plenty of people survive and do well in life even starting from Junior College like I did.
Giving them a little skin in the game, even if I have 10Mil in the bank will make them appreciate that hard work can pay off and teach them discipline.
My philosophy, and obviously looked down upon on this board by many of y'all except for @chessknt looks like.
My idea would be, were I to stay in this country and raise a kid here, where loans are given out like water would be, I help pay for some of the cost, and my kid pays for some of it. No full ride nothing unless we are talking of a scholarship. Take some loans, and learn to adult. It's part of life. You aren't getting a house downpayment from me. You are gonna work and pay your own down payment. You can get gifts from me here and there, but you aren't about to be "Mom, I need a new car, and I am 30." Uhm, no. Plenty of other things I can do with my money.

Whatever. Let me be miserly and keep going to the 99c stores and Walmart.

Food, shelter, clothing, love. Everything else is icing on the cake.
 
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Neopolymath said:
I've noticed two variations of this.

1. They will get everything when I die.
2. They aren't getting **** and I'm spending it all or giving it to charity.

My issue with the first type is that I don't understand it. Why would I want to give someone something when I die versus give it to them when I'm alive to get the enjoyment out of it and help them at a presumably younger age? My issue with the second type is that I can't imagine spending that much money if we are talking about doctors here. I have some expensive hobbies and I still couldn't imagine spending that much money. It's a ton of money when you think about how much money a typical doctor could casually save in a career.
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Nope. There is a middle ground.
They will NOT get everything when I die, but I may leave them a little something. They just aren't going to necessarily expect it and will have been standing on their own two feet and adulting for a very long time without any of my help. And yeah, will leave most of it to some kind of foundation or charity that I am close to.
 
Southpaw said:
Are they not going to inherit what's leftover from your life? I mean, are you going to purposefully spend every penny so they get nothing? Maybe I'm reading this wrong or just not getting it, but I don't understand a hard wired decision to not financially support your kids. Do you just not like them?
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Food, shelter, clothing, love. Everything else, is icing on the cake. Not necessary, but can be helpful.
 
chocomorsel said:
See, you are trying to put things in my mouth. I said I didn't believe in Ivy League and even Private Colleges. I believe one can easily succeed if motivated and assisted in a public school.
Rewarding a C student by giving them a full ride to a private liberal arts school when they could just easily as well enroll in the Public State funded one for half the cost is completely idiotic to me. These kids have no drive and I would be damned if I am going to experiment on them possibly failing out of college like 40K is pocket change. Maybe to some of y'all it is.
The whole idea of "I am going to pay for Ivy League, Medical School/Grad School, help them buy their first house, help them network with other rich people in the process" is completely baffling to me and can lead to unrealistic life expectations and entitlement behavior. Plenty of people survive and do well in life even starting from Junior College like I did.
Giving them a little skin in the game, even if I have 10Mil in the bank will make them appreciate that hard work can pay off and teach them discipline.
My philosophy, and obviously looked down upon on this board by many of y'all except for @chessknt looks like.
My idea would be, were I to stay in this country and raise a kid here, where loans are given out like water would be, I help pay for some of the cost, and my kid pays for some of it. No full ride nothing unless we are talking of a scholarship. Take some loans, and learn to adult. It's part of life. You aren't getting a house downpayment from me. You are gonna work and pay your own down payment. You can get gifts from me here and there, but you aren't about to be "Mom, I need a new car, and I am 30." Uhm, no. Plenty of other things I can do with my money.

Whatever. Let me be miserly and keep going to the 99c stores and Walmart.

Food, shelter, clothing, love. Everything else is icing on the cake.
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Hey, it’s up to you- that’s why it’s your money.

In terms of private and Ivy etc — I agree there are plenty of private colleges that are rip-offs and better to go to a good state school.

That being said, if my kid has the aptitude to get into hazard/yale etc then you bet I’d be happy to pay. And again, going back to statistics the graduates on AVERAGE from these highest ranked private schools are higher achievers, earn more, break into difficult careers easier and go on to do great things.

I also have no problem letting them have some “skin in the game”— but having them pay off 300k debt and needing to save 10 years for a house down payment AFTER you see your kids are responsible motivated adults in their late twenties is silly, IMO. Especially when that’s peanuts for you.
 
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Neopolymath said:
Blue collar in the sense that a doctor must actually show up and produce something to get paid unlike business and tech jobs.
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Yes... I mean doctors are not trust fund, private yacht, or socialite rich. We have to work hard for our money. And $400k a year (I don't make that much btw) is deceiving when taking into account the years of education training and enormous debt we accrue doing so. Meanwhile the CEO of my hospital system made 8 figures last year.
 
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chessknt said:
I personally believe it isn’t such an amazing gift to make everything easy for your kids. I think stepping in if there is trouble after giving them a chance to fail is a better approach. I also think the meaning of work has less value when you don’t have to do it because everything is given to you for free so you can focus on academics and the most expensive thing they can buy at that stage in their lives is an education. I think a default to college should not be assumed to be the best case scenario for every kid and they might have other plans (vocational, taking some time to work before deciding on a career path etc) and being told the entire time while they grow up that they are going to college and it’s going to be free might influence them away from the independent decisions they should be learning to make at that point. Finally I think working a minimum wage job will expose them to people and situations they don’t encounter in school that in addition to helping them mature faster and learn to work with other imperfect people it also can help prevent them from turning in to arrogant dinguses who look down on everyone who isn’t on a career path at a Fortune 500 company.

see it isnt always so sinister…
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As usual I feel like we are talking around one another rather than to one another. I don't think anyone here thinks there's value in their children avoiding personal accountability, hard work, and the ability to communicate and find common ground with everyone in society. Setting your children up for success, or at least feeling like you're doing your part, doesn't necessitate turning them into dinguses or arrogant pricks. Regardless of how much money we give our kids, more often then not they turn out like us. If they're dinguses or arrogant pricks then perhaps it's time we take a look at ourselves.
 
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turnupthegas said:
I’d like to be out of medicine by 45. Certainly not taking anymore call by then. Already planning an exit.
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What are some decent exit options? working for insurance companies? malpractice ? I also want out by the time I'm in my forties
 
Southpaw said:
I probably held an opinion similar to yours......and then I had kids.
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Yep. The cold, hard, truth is that being smart, hard working AND rich beats being smart and hard working every day of the week.

It’s the way of the world. And if I can give my kids all 3 you bet I will!
 
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Southpaw said:
As usual I feel like we are talking around one another rather than to one another. I don't think anyone here thinks there's value in their children avoiding personal accountability, hard work, and the ability to communicate and find common ground with everyone in society. Setting your children up for success, or at least feeling like you're doing your part, doesn't necessitate turning them into dinguses or arrogant pricks. Regardless of how much money we give our kids, more often then not they turn out like us. If they're dinguses or arrogant pricks then perhaps it's time we take a look at ourselves.
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So what method do you have them actually learn accountability and hard work when they get everything for free and have doors opened to them by virtue of being rich that they didnt have to network or open themselves? Like they have to actually do their homework the tutor basically did for them and that is the accountability we need in order for them to become future CEOs?
 
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chessknt said:
So what method do you have them actually learn accountability and hard work when they get everything for free and have doors opened to them by virtue of being rich that they didnt have to network or open themselves? Like they have to actually do their homework the tutor basically did for them and that is the accountability we need in order for them to become future CEOs?
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Holy smokes. That's quite the leap going from paying for state college tuition, for example, to never having to network, find a job opportunity and then seize it, and having a tutor do all their work at school... I'm sure you understand how someone writing a check for a tuition of college doesn't mean that student didn't have to actually go to class, take the test themselves, and then go apply for the job/interview and show up to work to start their career.

There is a gigantic gray area between a kid learning some responsibility and perspective by getting little help and what amounts to hyperbole representing a kid so rich he literally never has to do anything for himself but wipe his butt lol.
 
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Neopolymath said:
Holy smokes. That's quite the leap going from paying for state college tuition, for example, to never having to network, find a job opportunity and then seize it, and having a tutor do all their work at school... I'm sure you understand how someone writing a check for a tuition of college doesn't mean that student didn't have to actually go to class, take the test themselves, and then go apply for the job/interview and show up to work to start their career.

There is a gigantic gray area between a kid learning some responsibility and perspective by getting little help and what amounts to hyperbole representing a kid so rich he literally never has to do anything for himself but wipe his butt lol.
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Absolutely there is a spectrum. But if I am reading the above the idea is that the child needs to optimized for academic success via activities to pad the college app. I don't see working at Walmart as one of those activities... If everything is paid for and there are tutors and private school/activities planned out for the child until they day they turn 18 I don't understand how these values are actually taught beyond an academic level because there doesn't seem to be any tolerance for the consequences of failure in this model.

Like if the kid forgets to turn in a project and is going to fail a class isnt mommy going to go to the dean and rescue him? If the application gets waitlisted daddy doesnt have a friend to get it pushed up the queue so dont worry about it? What if the average C student wants to become an electric lineman and eventually starts an electrician contracting company and makes more money than you do but never gets the chance because anything besides college is failure?
 
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chessknt said:
Absolutely there is a spectrum. But if I am reading the above the idea is that the child needs to optimized for academic success via activities to pad the college app. I don't see working at Walmart as one of those activities... If everything is paid for and there are tutors and private school/activities planned out for the child until they day they turn 18 I don't understand how these values are actually taught beyond an academic level because there doesn't seem to be any tolerance for the consequences of failure in this model.

Like if the kid forgets to turn in a project and is going to fail a class isnt mommy going to go to the dean and rescue him? If the application gets waitlisted daddy doesnt have a friend to get it pushed up the queue so dont worry about it? What if the average C student wants to become an electric lineman and eventually starts an electrician contracting company and makes more money than you do but never gets the chance because anything besides college is failure?
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I see. I believe we are all talking past each other. I don't actually know many people raising their children in that manner. I grew up with kids and now know lots of parents who pay for a solid chunk of things for their children but I don't know a single one that had the perfect storm of examples listed above. Paying for your kid's college doesn't mean you don't force them to get a job. You can do all kinds of things with strings attached as a parent and you can always deviate from the plan if you know your kid is taking a different path or needs to take a different path. I don't think planning to put 200k in a 529 in case your kid needs it means that they must use it. In my mind, the main aspect of raising a child is getting them to be honest and legal in their participation in society when I'm not around to supervise them so I don't think a kid has to go to college, particularly now that college is a watered down rip off in many regards.

I think there is often a preconceived notion that if someone is rich and helps their kids then that means they aren't going to make them do normal parent - kid things like ****ty jobs, mowing the lawn, going and doing things they don't want to do frequently because that's part of being an adult etc. I don't think those things are linked based on my experiences. I think that behavior is linked to thinking your kid is special and lacking perspective. Maybe that's more common in rich people due to the just world fallacy? IDK.

I do think that lots of kids could be "optimized" for success as was said above. Everyone has a different definition of success though so I don't automatically assume that it means a stereotypical version that is kind of ugly/striver. I didn't realize that was a taboo phrase to some people. Kids with peers that aren't losers do better than kids who hang with losers. "Run with dogs and get fleas" and all that wisdom. Kids who go to Harvard typically do better than kids who don't. If you have the means and think your kid might be the type that really needs a strong peer group to succeed then I can see why someone with the financial means necessary to create that environment would. I didn't need that at all and neither did my SO but I definitely have friends and acquaintances that objectively underachieved due to their environment because that is a character weakness they have. I bet their parents would have fixed that if they had the means.

Maybe I'm just out of touch because my upbringing was very diverse/unique spending time with lots of wealthy people and with some of the poorest multicultural groups in America? The the rich/wealthy people that I do know aren't dynasty families of coastal elites though. That might be my issue picturing the problem because I guess I truly don't know how those families operate. Maybe it is terrible and weird in those circles and the kids are just diplomat kids murdering people in hit and runs and getting away with it like on TV drama. IDK. All my friends drink Coors light on the weekend and make their kid pressure wash and stain the deck, for example. They make them change the oil the car and weed grandma's garden. They just happen to take their kid and friends out on their boat for a birthday party on occasion. Those kids are also getting post high school education and a reliable car paid for to get started if they maintain grades and work. I think those kids are smart and learning from parents that actively attempt to teach them important life lessons. I don't think these kids with do better if they were saddled with 100k in debt too.

I also think there is a ton of benefit from being parented/coached by someone who has achieved success. It's a huge leg up to go to work with successful/powerful supervisors for the first time and know how you are supposed to act because your dad had you learn adult interaction with these people as a teenager. Are parents supposed to just not offer their kids these opportunities because it's better for them to learn them at their first job by screwing up? I'm not sure I totally agree that a school of hard knocks and tough choices makes a better adult. It probably does sometimes just like raising your kids with great opportunities probably makes a better adult sometimes. I don't think buying your kid a 10 year old safe car and then taking it away when/if they become a screw up is any less effective a technique than making them buy a 30 year old car themselves because reasons.

Interesting topic. I know, for me, that the biggest formative changes I had growing up were based on experiences and not tied directly to money. Paying for my own car or school didn't mean **** to me and still doesn't beyond the fact that it's money I wish I had in another side business or my savings. If my kid is introspective and smart I don't expect him to sleep on a dirt floor in India to realize they need to be thankful for the life we live here. I try to give intelligent people credit and faith in their ability to use those smarts and upbringing to harness the feeling of empathy. If they aren't introspective then that is my failing as a parent, in my opinion. I have always and will always take care of my stuff because it's part of my personality whether something was a gift or my own purchase. Learning to change an alternator because my dad taught me to was important. Learning how to talk to adults in social and work situations was important. Understanding that we have to do things we don't want to as adults had nothing to do with my dad buying me car tires once for example. Spending that $1k on tires versus something fun didn't change me fundamentally. Coincidentally, I think many 1st generation wealthy people understand this best because they are still tied to both sides of the spectrum via their journey. They understand the importance of a leg up but also the importance of explaining how most people live.
 
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chessknt said:
Absolutely there is a spectrum. But if I am reading the above the idea is that the child needs to optimized for academic success via activities to pad the college app. I don't see working at Walmart as one of those activities... If everything is paid for and there are tutors and private school/activities planned out for the child until they day they turn 18 I don't understand how these values are actually taught beyond an academic level because there doesn't seem to be any tolerance for the consequences of failure in this model.

Like if the kid forgets to turn in a project and is going to fail a class isnt mommy going to go to the dean and rescue him? If the application gets waitlisted daddy doesnt have a friend to get it pushed up the queue so dont worry about it? What if the average C student wants to become an electric lineman and eventually starts an electrician contracting company and makes more money than you do but never gets the chance because anything besides college is failure?
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This is silly, we are all talking past each other. Of course you shouldn’t spoon feed kids everything to make them helpless.

Money can give kids opportunities. And spending it can be done poorly, or give them a huge leg up.

You want to try out XYZ sport to see if it might develop over the years into your passion? Skiing, fencing, tennis, golf, diving lessons?

You scored 99th percentile in aptitude tests in math? Here’s some advanced tutors/camps/courses if you like it— maybe you’ll compete in national math teams. Maybe you only scored 90th percentile but the extra help can push you to the next level.

Interested in finance? Astronomy? Here’s a cool camp taught by a former astronaut.

Rather work hard in a science lab or an engineering firm as an intern instead of at Walmart? It still pays $10/hr — but you get to see what a career in these fields might be like, and make connections. My good friend runs the lab/firm- let me talk to him.

You just busted your butt through medical school and residency and looking to buy your first house? Wow, you’re obviously a motivated, hard working kid (/young adult). Here’s 200k - which means you can invest your attending paychecks and build wealth instead of pay off debt!
 
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patriot6 said:
What happens if you have FIVE kids…

asking for a friend…

:)
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I know an Ortho trauma doc with 11 kids. Took q2 call for decades, then in his 60s moved to a town in the middle of nowhere because they offered him more money. He graduated from med school in 1978 and he is still working.
 
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nimbus said:
I know an Ortho trauma doc with 11 kids. Took q2 call for decades, then in his 60s moved to a town in the middle of nowhere because they offered him more money. He graduated from med school in 1978 and he is still working.
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He will need to work until well after he dies.
 
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nimbus said:
I know an Ortho trauma doc with 11 kids. Took q2 call for decades, then in his 60s moved to a town in the middle of nowhere because they offered him more money. He graduated from med school in 1978 and he is still working.
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Frazier???
 
nimbus said:
I know an Ortho trauma doc with 11 kids. Took q2 call for decades, then in his 60s moved to a town in the middle of nowhere because they offered him more money. He graduated from med school in 1978 and he is still working.
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Probably be easier to just live off government dole like everyone else
 
chocomorsel said:
See, you are trying to put things in my mouth. I said I didn't believe in Ivy League and even Private Colleges. I believe one can easily succeed if motivated and assisted in a public school.
Rewarding a C student by giving them a full ride to a private liberal arts school when they could just easily as well enroll in the Public State funded one for half the cost is completely idiotic to me. These kids have no drive and I would be damned if I am going to experiment on them possibly failing out of college like 40K is pocket change. Maybe to some of y'all it is.
The whole idea of "I am going to pay for Ivy League, Medical School/Grad School, help them buy their first house, help them network with other rich people in the process" is completely baffling to me and can lead to unrealistic life expectations and entitlement behavior. Plenty of people survive and do well in life even starting from Junior College like I did.
Giving them a little skin in the game, even if I have 10Mil in the bank will make them appreciate that hard work can pay off and teach them discipline.
My philosophy, and obviously looked down upon on this board by many of y'all except for @chessknt looks like.
My idea would be, were I to stay in this country and raise a kid here, where loans are given out like water would be, I help pay for some of the cost, and my kid pays for some of it. No full ride nothing unless we are talking of a scholarship. Take some loans, and learn to adult. It's part of life. You aren't getting a house downpayment from me. You are gonna work and pay your own down payment. You can get gifts from me here and there, but you aren't about to be "Mom, I need a new car, and I am 30." Uhm, no. Plenty of other things I can do with my money.

Whatever. Let me be miserly and keep going to the 99c stores and Walmart.

Food, shelter, clothing, love. Everything else is icing on the cake.
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No, I get what you're saying and part of the problem here is that you're both
a) deliberately misunderstanding me (what's this nonsense about buying cars for 30 year old kids? where'd that come from?)
b) wrong :)

You don't believe in Ivy League and private colleges?!? You don't believe in networking? Connections? Studying with, working with, socializing with people who can offer internships or jobs or references? You don't think those things have value? Do you not believe they exist? You don't think a graduate from one of those schools has advantages over the kid who did two years of community college and then transferred to state U?

You said that's what you did - obviously it worked out fine, because you're here having this conversation. You're the exception though. You seem to take a weird perverse pride in goin' it alone, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and ensuring that you get full credit and "deserve" your success or failure.

I had tons of parental support - they paid for me to go to a 4 year university (I actually spent 5 there and they didn't bat an eye). And then I was on my own, and I traded some years of service to the Navy in return for medical school tuition and some free travel. But whereas I think giving my kids that same level of support (and more) is the perhaps the single best possible use of my money, you curve off into some non sequitur about dollar stores.


I do agree that the kid should have some skin in the game. I'm not arguing to endlessly pay tuition for a kid who's splitting his time between a bong, some video games, and clocking in for roadside trash pickup as part of a probation plea that kept him out of jail. I'm arguing that parents of means, like us, ought to stack the deck in their kids favor.


Not to bring race into it ... ah, what the hell, let's bring race into it! One of the most fundamental ways systemic racism has been keeping minorities and especially black people down in the 150 years since the Civil War and the 50 years since the Civil Rights Act, is that they haven't had the opportunities to pass wealth down from generation to generation. Career paths that were closed to them, property they weren't allowed to buy, mortgages they weren't offered, pockets of success crushed with violence, resumes discarded because the names sound ethnic. Starting from scratch, every generation.

I don't see why you're so hostile to the idea of giving your next generation a boost. A weird perverse pride in goin' it alone is the best I can come up with.
 
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I am doing the following:
1. Send kids to private school
2. Buy my kids a car/give them my current and buy myself a new one.
3. Pay for college (actually already done, 529)
4. Work all the connections I have to get them started in careers.
5. Continue funding their irrevocable trusts with 30/kid/year
6. Pay for vacations
7. Buy their first home, making them pay me back at the lowest legal interest rate.
8. Allow them to inherit enough to do nothing.

In short, my kids could be complete lazy turds. I hope I train them better, but if not, I’m ok with that. They will inherit millions.
 
pgg said:
No, I get what you're saying and part of the problem here is that you're both
a) deliberately misunderstanding me (what's this nonsense about buying cars for 30 year old kids? where'd that come from?)
b) wrong :)

You don't believe in Ivy League and private colleges?!? You don't believe in networking? Connections? Studying with, working with, socializing with people who can offer internships or jobs or references? You don't think those things have value? Do you not believe they exist? You don't think a graduate from one of those schools has advantages over the kid who did two years of community college and then transferred to state U?

You said that's what you did - obviously it worked out fine, because you're here having this conversation. You're the exception though. You seem to take a weird perverse pride in goin' it alone, pulling yourself up by your bootstraps and ensuring that you get full credit and "deserve" your success or failure.

I had tons of parental support - they paid for me to go to a 4 year university (I actually spent 5 there and they didn't bat an eye). And then I was on my own, and I traded some years of service to the Navy in return for medical school tuition and some free travel. But whereas I think giving my kids that same level of support (and more) is the perhaps the single best possible use of my money, you curve off into some non sequitur about dollar stores.


I do agree that the kid should have some skin in the game. I'm not arguing to endlessly pay tuition for a kid who's splitting his time between a bong, some video games, and clocking in for roadside trash pickup as part of a probation plea that kept him out of jail. I'm arguing that parents of means, like us, ought to stack the deck in their kids favor.


Not to bring race into it ... ah, what the hell, let's bring race into it! One of the most fundamental ways systemic racism has been keeping minorities and especially black people down in the 150 years since the Civil War and the 50 years since the Civil Rights Act, is that they haven't had the opportunities to pass wealth down from generation to generation. Career paths that were closed to them, property they weren't allowed to buy, mortgages they weren't offered, pockets of success crushed with violence, resumes discarded because the names sound ethnic. Starting from scratch, every generation.

I don't see why you're so hostile to the idea of giving your next generation a boost. A weird perverse pride in goin' it alone is the best I can come up with.
Click to expand...
Firstly, I am not "hostile" to giving the next generation a boost. I don't know why you would even use that term because that is nothing like what I said. I said, I don't believe in paying for private schools or "Ivy League" schools. I said I would assist my hypothetical kids in state colleges which are plentiful and economical and have kids from all walks of life.
That is my idea of, giving the kids a boost. And yet still letting them having skin in the game.

And I don't understand why y'all think that Private and Ivy League schools are the only ones that have connections and networking opportunities. I want my hypothetical kids to remain grounded and interact with all kinds of people from all walks of life. I don't see why the heck that is such a problem that I don't want them just socializing with "rich" kids and possibly lacking exposure and empathy for people from other socioeconomic backgrounds. And I aint just talking about volunteering in the soup kitchen so they can see the worst of the worst. Just being around regular, hardworking people who aren't eating from the soup kitchen but are hustling and trying to make end meet nonetheless so they can appreciate their status.

I don't see why you and others on this board are so "hostile" to the idea of letting children have skin in the game and not giving them everything just because you can afford it.

My idea of making it alone also means that if I can do it, they can as well. But clearly, my parents couldn't afford it, which is not the case with me. But I am not going to go the complete total extreme on the other end just because now I got means and pay for everything and leave them millions while there are other plans and ideas I have as to what to do with my money and privilege.

Agree to disagree.
 
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Justanesguy said:
I am doing the following:
1. Send kids to private school
2. Buy my kids a car/give them my current and buy myself a new one.
3. Pay for college (actually already done, 529)
4. Work all the connections I have to get them started in careers.
5. Continue funding their irrevocable trusts with 30/kid/year
6. Pay for vacations
7. Buy their first home, making them pay me back at the lowest legal interest rate.
8. Allow them to inherit enough to do nothing.

In short, my kids could be complete lazy turds. I hope I train them better, but if not, I’m ok with that. They will inherit millions.
Click to expand...

You open to adoption? Asking for a friend.
 
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The White Coat Investor has a good philosophy about money and kids in my opinion. Eg. Make them get a job and put all the money they earn into a Roth IRA. Then gift them an equivalent amount in cash. Stuff like that can accomplish goals of having kids learn responsibility and give them a head start for those with means.
 
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chocomorsel said:
Firstly, I am not "hostile" to giving the next generation a boost. I don't know why you would even use that term because that is nothing like what I said. I said, I don't believe in paying for private schools or "Ivy League" schools. I said I would assist my hypothetical kids in state colleges which are plentiful and economical and have kids from all walks of life.
That is my idea of, giving the kids a boost. And yet still letting them having skin in the game.

And I don't understand why y'all think that Private and Ivy League schools are the only ones that have connections and networking opportunities. I want my hypothetical kids to remain grounded and interact with all kinds of people from all walks of life. I don't see why the heck that is such a problem that I don't want them just socializing with "rich" kids and possibly lacking exposure and empathy for people from other socioeconomic backgrounds. And I aint just talking about volunteering in the soup kitchen so they can see the worst of the worst. Just being around regular, hardworking people who aren't eating from the soup kitchen but are hustling and trying to make end meet nonetheless so they can appreciate their status.

I don't see why you and others on this board are so "hostile" to the idea of letting children have skin in the game and not giving them everything just because you can afford it.

My idea of making it alone also means that if I can do it, they can as well. But clearly, my parents couldn't afford it, which is not the case with me. But I am not going to go the complete total extreme on the other end just because now I got means and pay for everything and leave them millions while there are other plans and ideas I have as to what to do with my money and privilege.

Agree to disagree.
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Choco, I don't plan on sending my kid out of state for college unless they're some wunderkind and their interest or major is some kind of specialized program at just a couple of institutions, but fyi, the Ivy's aren't 100% filled with blue blood kids racing their Porsches in between classes.

55% of kids at Harvard receive need based financial aid and 2/3rds of them work during school.
 
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vector2 said:
Choco, I don't plan on sending my kid out of state for college unless they're some wunderkind and their interest or major is some kind of specialized program at just a couple of institutions, but fyi, the Ivy's aren't 100% filled with blue blood kids racing their Porsches in between classes.

55% of kids at Harvard receive need based financial aid and 2/3rds of them work during school.
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If they get a scholarship to go, I won’t stop them cuz I don’t turn down free money after all. I am black. Lol
I am just not gonna pay for it or pay more of a difference in cost than a state school. And their upbringing will not just expose them to just other rich kids.
 
chocomorsel said:
If they get a scholarship to go, I won’t stop them cuz I don’t turn down free money after all. I am black. Lol
I am just not gonna pay for it or pay more of a difference in cost than a state school. And their upbringing will not just expose them to just other rich kids.
Click to expand...

The Ivys and Stanford are littered with extremely bright kids who've done tremendous things with less than ideal circumstances. I imagine the environments there are much more appealing and challenging to the young mind than state schools (where I went) that aren't so difficult to get into or less competitive private liberal arts schools with expensive tuitions and student lots full of BMWs and Audis. The financial aid packages at the Ivys tend to be outstanding from what I've read. Also, if those schools wanted they could select solely kids of former grads but they tend to select students who they believe will make the world a better place. I don't say that lightly.

Raising kids is tricky. We are tasked with doing everything possible to stack the deck in their favor without doing so much that they don't learn lessons like hard work, teamwork, and doing something for the greater good. College admissions has gotten insane. If my kid is fortunate enough to get into one of these elite schools I'd do everything in my power to send them. And if they do get in it'll be a testament to their hard work and not me paving the way for them. I just don't have that much money nor do I have connections that strong. If you decide that's not you, then that's cool, but I imagine you'd be in the extreme minority.
 
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chocomorsel said:
If they get a scholarship to go, I won’t stop them cuz I don’t turn down free money after all. I am black. Lol
I am just not gonna pay for it or pay more of a difference in cost than a state school. And their upbringing will not just expose them to just other rich kids.
Click to expand...

Each to their own.

Bottom line is that ivys, Stanfords etc have a much higher level of talent and work ethic than state schools, on average. I’m more than happy to pay fully if they got in.

And no one has stated *anywhere* that they want to expose their kids soley to other rich kids— so not sure how that argument is at all related to this discussion.

As other posters have said, these top-tier schools aren’t filled with rich kids. Maybe in the 1920s but things have changed. Far from it.
 
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