Another Adcom, ask me (almost) anything

[Afp0731]

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Thank you for doing this Hushcom. Any thoughts/advice on my current situation would be greatly appreciated.

-24 year old male
-uGPA-3.4(last 2.5 years were 4.0 including retakes of poor grades)
-29 MCAT(9PS/10VR/10BS)
-4 years fraternity membership including multiple leadership positions, 2 years St Jude Philanthropy board member, member or pre-professional society, 1 year as regular hospice patient volunteer, MDA summer camp caretaker, 1.5 years of regular cardio thoracic surgery shadowing, 6 years as professional solo musician/singer
- Solid LORs from pre med advisory board, developmental bio/advanced cell bio professor, cardio thoracic surgeon.

I have applied twice to both of my state MD schools(LSU Shreveport and New Orleans). On the first app, I recieved an interview at LSU Shreve right after submitting. Went well but was not accepted. Nothing from LSU New Orleans this time. Followed up at Shreve in April and was told to do more volunteer work, work on PS, and re-apply in October in order for me to gain experience to write about. Since re-applying, I have recieved pre-interview rejection at Shreve and still nothing from New Orleans.

I'm trying to figure out exactly what to do from here and am not sure where to start. If a grad program is needed, I would need to find one ASAP. I'm not opposed to this. However, I've been told that my stats are suitable for my state schools at the least and if that's the case, it would be great to avoid the costs of a one year master program. Whether or not I need more coursework to speak on my behalf, I don't know. I feel like getting a better answer to that question is a critical step for me at the moment. I have yet to apply before August(MCAT assurance and then Dean's orders)and I know this could be a significant factor in my application. Otherwise, I believe my app is solid. It's been reviewed significantly and at the least is professional and complete(I felt it was interesting and personal haha). I cannot meet with the deans of these schools to discuss this issue until April. By that time, I will have a much more narrow window of time and opportunities to work with. Sticky situation. Also, I am searching for schools outside of Louisiana that may be a good match for me. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

 

[senzen]

Thank you for doing this Hushcom. Any thoughts/advice on my current situation would be greatly appreciated.

-24 year old male
-uGPA-3.4(last 2.5 years were 4.0 including retakes of poor grades)
-29 MCAT(9PS/10VR/10BS)
-4 years fraternity membership including multiple leadership positions, 2 years St Jude Philanthropy board member, member or pre-professional society, 1 year as regular hospice patient volunteer, MDA summer camp caretaker, 1.5 years of regular cardio thoracic surgery shadowing, 6 years as professional solo musician/singer
- Solid LORs from pre med advisory board, developmental bio/advanced cell bio professor, cardio thoracic surgeon.

I have applied twice to both of my state MD schools(LSU Shreveport and New Orleans). On the first app, I recieved an interview at LSU Shreve right after submitting. Went well but was not accepted. Nothing from LSU New Orleans this time. Followed up at Shreve in April and was told to do more volunteer work, work on PS, and re-apply in October in order for me to gain experience to write about. Since re-applying, I have recieved pre-interview rejection at Shreve and still nothing from New Orleans.

I'm trying to figure out exactly what to do from here and am not sure where to start. If a grad program is needed, I would need to find one ASAP. I'm not opposed to this. However, I've been told that my stats are suitable for my state schools at the least and if that's the case, it would be great to avoid the costs of a one year master program. Whether or not I need more coursework to speak on my behalf, I don't know. I feel like getting a better answer to that question is a critical step for me at the moment. I have yet to apply before August(MCAT assurance and then Dean's orders)and I know this could be a significant factor in my application. Otherwise, I believe my app is solid. It's been reviewed significantly and at the least is professional and complete(I felt it was interesting and personal haha). I cannot meet with the deans of these schools to discuss this issue until April. By that time, I will have a much more narrow window of time and opportunities to work with. Sticky situation. Also, I am searching for schools outside of Louisiana that may be a good match for me. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

I feel like 1 year-1.5 years of volunteer work is good. If I may ask, around how many hours were completed during this time?

 

[Afp0731]

Thanks for the response! During the period between my follow up in April and now, I have been putting in at least two hours a week. I have cumulatively racked up maybe 150 hours of volunteer service since April. My specific instructions were to do something ongoing and that required direct interaction with patients, thus the hospice and MDA work. If my options were less limited and I didn't have to work two jobs, I would do more.

 

[hushcom]

Thank you for doing this Hushcom. Any thoughts/advice on my current situation would be greatly appreciated.

-24 year old male
-uGPA-3.4(last 2.5 years were 4.0 including retakes of poor grades)
-29 MCAT(9PS/10VR/10BS)
-4 years fraternity membership including multiple leadership positions, 2 years St Jude Philanthropy board member, member or pre-professional society, 1 year as regular hospice patient volunteer, MDA summer camp caretaker, 1.5 years of regular cardio thoracic surgery shadowing, 6 years as professional solo musician/singer
- Solid LORs from pre med advisory board, developmental bio/advanced cell bio professor, cardio thoracic surgeon.

I have applied twice to both of my state MD schools(LSU Shreveport and New Orleans). On the first app, I recieved an interview at LSU Shreve right after submitting. Went well but was not accepted. Nothing from LSU New Orleans this time. Followed up at Shreve in April and was told to do more volunteer work, work on PS, and re-apply in October in order for me to gain experience to write about. Since re-applying, I have recieved pre-interview rejection at Shreve and still nothing from New Orleans.

I'm trying to figure out exactly what to do from here and am not sure where to start. If a grad program is needed, I would need to find one ASAP. I'm not opposed to this. However, I've been told that my stats are suitable for my state schools at the least and if that's the case, it would be great to avoid the costs of a one year master program. Whether or not I need more coursework to speak on my behalf, I don't know. I feel like getting a better answer to that question is a critical step for me at the moment. I have yet to apply before August(MCAT assurance and then Dean's orders)and I know this could be a significant factor in my application. Otherwise, I believe my app is solid. It's been reviewed significantly and at the least is professional and complete(I felt it was interesting and personal haha). I cannot meet with the deans of these schools to discuss this issue until April. By that time, I will have a much more narrow window of time and opportunities to work with. Sticky situation. Also, I am searching for schools outside of Louisiana that may be a good match for me. Any thoughts would be appreciated!

A tough position to be in. Your MCAT is at the median for Shreve and slightly below the median for LSU-NO, but your GPA is at the 10th percentile for both schools. You are playing catch-up with ECs and have a monochromatic shadowing experience in a specialty field. You believe your app is solid, I say you have covered all your bases, but none too well.

My perfect world suggestion would be to bolster every aspect of your application:
1. If you can stomach it, do a one year grad program and ace it. That will partially mitigate concerns about your uGPA.
2. If you can stomach it, retake the MCAT. The test is not changing as much as some people say. If you can raise your percentile score even a little bit it would help tip you over.
3. Find another shadowing experience, preferably with a primary care physician.
4. Keep volunteering. Persistence pays off in the end.

No matter what happens, apply more broadly next time. There are certainly valid reasons to attend a state school, but don't lose years of your life chasing the closest publicly-subsidized windmills.

 

[Afp0731]

A tough position to be in. Your MCAT is at the median for Shreve and slightly below the median for LSU-NO, but your GPA is at the 10th percentile for both schools. You are playing catch-up with ECs and have a monochromatic shadowing experience in a specialty field. You believe your app is solid, I say you have covered all your bases, but none too well.

My perfect world suggestion would be to bolster every aspect of your application:
1. If you can stomach it, do a one year grad program and ace it. That will partially mitigate concerns about your uGPA.
2. If you can stomach it, retake the MCAT. The test is not changing as much as some people say. If you can raise your percentile score even a little bit it would help tip you over.
3. Find another shadowing experience, preferably with a primary care physician.
4. Keep volunteering. Persistence pays off in the end.

No matter what happens, apply more broadly next time. There are certainly valid reasons to attend a state school, but don't lose years of your life chasing the closest publicly-subsidized windmills.

Great advice, thank you! I guess I have not considered re-taking the MCAT because a number of students from my university get accepted in Shreveport and New Orleans yearly with 24-28. In fact, very few applicants from my university score over a 30 which is odd considering national stats. Ironically, I have done quite a bit more EC work than many of my classmates who have been accepted as well. I suppose making comparisons is not always relevant haha. In retrospect, I felt like I did all I could considering I had to work so often but I do wish I had picked more medical-specific activities rather than take so many leadership opportunities. Between retaking the MCAT and doing a grad program, which do you think would be more beneficial for me? I am skeptical about having the time and money to do both considering my work and volunteer schedule but I am willing to sacrifice. Also, do you think a masters in biology at my university(ULL) would be less beneficial than say a program specifically geared for applicants? Tulane offers a one year post-back program that is specially designed for medical school applicants. I am quite confident that I could ace a masters program and or raise my MCAT score if needed. Definitely will apply to more schools in June. Again, thank you.

 

[hushcom]

How do you feel about an applicant with no/poor research experience but with good clinical/non-clinical experience/volunteering and good grades? What is the best thing to do for such an applicant (assuming there is not enough time to get long-term research experience)?

Research is common but not universal among premeds, and a lack of it will not kill an otherwise good application. You will probably want to avoid research-intensive schools (like Wash U) and instead focus on institutions that are more geared toward educating practicing physicians.

 

[hushcom]

Great advice, thank you! I guess I have not considered re-taking the MCAT because a number of students from my university get accepted in Shreveport and New Orleans yearly with 24-28. In fact, very few applicants from my university score over a 30 which is odd considering national stats. Ironically, I have done quite a bit more EC work than many of my classmates who have been accepted as well. I suppose making comparisons is not always relevant haha. In retrospect, I felt like I did all I could considering I had to work so often but I do wish I had picked more medical-specific activities rather than take so many leadership opportunities. Between retaking the MCAT and doing a grad program, which do you think would be more beneficial for me? I am skeptical about having the time and money to do both considering my work and volunteer schedule but I am willing to sacrifice. Also, do you think a masters in biology at my university(ULL) would be less beneficial than say a program specifically geared for applicants? Tulane offers a one year post-back program that is specially designed for medical school applicants. I am quite confident that I could ace a masters program and or raise my MCAT score if needed. Definitely will apply to more schools in June. Again, thank you.

There are pros and cons to both routes. A grad program may be expensive and time consuming, but performing well in a program like Tulane's would be a nice feather in your cap, and one that doesn't expire. It may also come with counseling resources that surpass what you have now. Retaking the MCAT would be quicker and cheaper, but if your score does not improve then you are stuck. Of course it is possible that if you apply broadly with your current application you may get into a private school somewhere, there is just no telling. I would suggest downing a few Turbo Dogs and sleeping on it.

 

[sundevils1993]

I am a traditional student heading into his final semester, and I have not taken the MCAT. I have an assortment of obligations (scribing, research job, thesis for another research project, and volunteering) along with a fairly rigorous course load, and therefore, MCAT prep appears not to be very pragmatic this semester. Will I be looked down upon by admission committees as "lazy" for taking two gap years by taking the MCAT after graduation?

 

[hushcom]

I am a traditional student heading into his final semester, and I have not taken the MCAT. I have an assortment of obligations (scribing, research job, thesis for another research project, and volunteering) along with a fairly rigorous course load, and therefore, MCAT prep appears not to be very pragmatic this semester. Will I be looked down upon by admission committees as "lazy" for taking two gap years by taking the MCAT after graduation?

Spending 1-3 years between college and medical school used to be the exception, but it is fast becoming the rule. You will no be looked down upon unless you waste the time.

 

[Afp0731]

There are pros and cons to both routes. A grad program may be expensive and time consuming, but performing well in a program like Tulane's would be a nice feather in your cap, and one that doesn't expire. It may also come with counseling resources that surpass what you have now. Retaking the MCAT would be quicker and cheaper, but if your score does not improve then you are stuck. Of course it is possible that if you apply broadly with your current application you may get into a private school somewhere, there is just no telling. I would suggest downing a few Turbo Dogs and sleeping on it.

The advice is much appreciated. Believe it or not, my rejection was just retracted and an interview was offered so hopefully I wont need to do either!

 

[Ol'Lady]

The advice is much appreciated. Believe it or not, my rejection was just retracted and an interview was offered so hopefully I wont need to do either!

THIS HAPPENS???

I thought rejections were final. What!?!?!?! My mind is blown!

 

[ZPakEffect]

I have a 3.9 uGPA and a law school GPA of 2.7, which I believe will result in a cGPA of about 3.4. Are adcoms aware of how tough law school grading is or will my law school GPA make me look like someone who cannot excel in professional school? Should I choose which schools to apply based on my uGPA or my cGPA? I am a Texas resident. I don't have my MCAT score yet but my AAMC practice average was 38 and I felt very good about my January 10 MCAT. My ECs are unspectacular: some volunteering, some research, ED scribe. Thanks for your help.

 

[Ol'Lady]

THIS HAPPENS???

I thought rejections were final. What!?!?!?! My mind is blown!

i had something remotely similar happen last week and it made me wonder about stuff like this happening to other ppl:

I got an email last week saying "thanks for trying...but your file is not complete. you're missing some necessary criteria, etc...rejected." i applied in June of last year.

i had to reply with a copy of an email from like 2013 (Thank GOD i saved it), saying i do meet such and such requirement based on this email from admissions in which i specifically asked about this requirement.

then i got another email thanking me and then completing my file and putting it in the "review" stack. who knows if it will lead to an interview this late but at least someone will eyeball it now...(and get a chance to reject it for real )

apparently though, sometimes it helps to ask "why?"

 

[moop]

I have a 3.9 uGPA and a law school GPA of 2.7, which I believe will result in a cGPA of about 3.4. Are adcoms aware of how tough law school grading is or will my law school GPA make me look like someone who cannot excel in professional school? Should I choose which schools to apply based on my uGPA or my cGPA? I am a Texas resident. I don't have my MCAT score yet but my AAMC practice average was 38 and I felt very good about my January 10 MCAT. My ECs are unspectacular: some volunteering, some research, ED scribe. Thanks for your help.

Target schools based on undergrad cGPA. There are plenty of lawyers on these forums to help on the "do med schools know about law school curves" question.
e.g., @Law2Doc

 

[senzen]

I have a 3.9 uGPA and a law school GPA of 2.7, which I believe will result in a cGPA of about 3.4. Are adcoms aware of how tough law school grading is or will my law school GPA make me look like someone who cannot excel in professional school? Should I choose which schools to apply based on my uGPA or my cGPA? I am a Texas resident. I don't have my MCAT score yet but my AAMC practice average was 38 and I felt very good about my January 10 MCAT. My ECs are unspectacular: some volunteering, some research, ED scribe. Thanks for your help.

I'm not sure if this is exactly true but you apparently don't need to mention your master's or graduate school GPAs if you don't want to. If you went to medical school, and are trying to reapply that is a different story. But I actually know someone who started law school the same cycle he was applying "just in case it didn't work out" and I was like oh how are you going to explain that to medical school? And he said you aren't required to report graduate school GPAs. Apparently, they have no way of knowing. He is currently in his first year of medical school.

Perhaps @Goro and @hushcom can verify. Best of luck to you, I'm sure you will be fine.

 

[Goro]

One is required to submit all grades at any school where one matriculated. There's a clearing house for info for this sort of thing, and if any med school thinks that you're trying to skirt the rules, you might as well take your app and set on fire.

To Zpak, we don't give a rat's ass about law school GPA, whether 2.7 or 3.7. You have more of an issue trying to convince Adcoms that you're someone who is truly following their right path and destiny, rather than someone who is merely fleeing a terrible job market, which the Legal Profession is in right now. In other words, why didn't you go for Medicine the first time?

I'm not sure if this is exactly true but you apparently don't need to mention your master's or graduate school GPAs if you don't want to. If you went to medical school, and are trying to reapply that is a different story. But I actually know someone who started law school the same cycle he was applying "just in case it didn't work out" and I was like oh how are you going to explain that to medical school? And he said you aren't required to report graduate school GPAs. Apparently, they have no way of knowing. He is currently in his first year of medical school.

Perhaps @Goro and @hushcom can verify. Best of luck to you, I'm sure you will be fine.

 

[Afp0731]

THIS HAPPENS???

I thought rejections were final. What!?!?!?! My mind is blown!

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Master Thinker]

Hey guys, thanks for doing this.

Quick question: do you guys look more closely at GPA or class rigor? I have some AP credits and don't know whether to use them or not. Not using them will allow me to retake courses and do very well in them.

Thanks.

 

[hushcom]

I have a 3.9 uGPA and a law school GPA of 2.7, which I believe will result in a cGPA of about 3.4. Are adcoms aware of how tough law school grading is or will my law school GPA make me look like someone who cannot excel in professional school? Should I choose which schools to apply based on my uGPA or my cGPA? I am a Texas resident. I don't have my MCAT score yet but my AAMC practice average was 38 and I felt very good about my January 10 MCAT. My ECs are unspectacular: some volunteering, some research, ED scribe. Thanks for your help.

Agree with Goro above. And use your uGPA.

 

[hushcom]

Hey guys, thanks for doing this.

Quick question: do you guys look more closely at GPA or class rigor? I have some AP credits and don't know whether to use them or not. Not using them will allow me to retake courses and do very well in them.

Thanks.

It is not a simple algorithm. I will look at the GPA, the major, the courses taken, the credit load, the institution, and extenuating circumstances like having to work, being a serious collegiate athlete, etc. Most of the applications I receive come from people who are academically well qualified, so there is little need to split hairs.

 

[hushcom]

The advice is much appreciated. Believe it or not, my rejection was just retracted and an interview was offered so hopefully I wont need to do either!

Congrats. Looks like a little miscommunication happened in the admissions office.

 

[Psai]

THIS HAPPENS???

I thought rejections were final. What!?!?!?! My mind is blown!

Lol there was a year where a school didn't accept as many as they should have and blew through their waiting list as well. They had to "unreject" some people postinterview which probably pissed some people off but started some careers as well.

 

[da3]

Hi @hushcom thanks again for replying to so many people!

I am from Ohio and I know that it's a great state to be from if you want to go to medical school.
I plan on applying this year to about 15 or so schools including all of my state schools (I especially want to go to Cincinnati).

I am currently attending a top 15 school thats very well-known for research, and I am heavy on the research side of things. I currently have about 1000 hours in a pulm lab and about 300 hours in a neuro lab as well. I have a little bit of volunteering (teaching middle school students science lessons, coaching a summer baseball team, and being a part of tools for schools) but no clinical volunteering. I do however have a good amount of shadowing (~80 hours) at the university hospital. Is it fine that I don't have clinical volunteering right now since I have a good amount of clinical experience with shadowing?

I also have a couple more ECs, but my concern is that my cGPA is a 3.63 right now and my sGPA is around a 3.5. I have received variations of B's from chemistry courses and one C in Organic I (I got a B+ in II) but have two flat A's in physics from summerschool at a very large but non-prestigious university near home. Will the fact that I got A's from another school seem fishy even though it's not like its from a CC?

Unfortunately I feel like my research workload sort of caused my grades to suffer, but I find that most students here struggle to get an A in the big general pre-reqs here (average sGPA for students accepted to med school is around a 3.5 for our school and about 70% are accepted each year). I plan on taking the MCAT in May and was wondering if Cincinnati is a realistic option for me since the school's averages are a decent amount higher than my stats? Will med schools take into account the difficulty of the undergraduate school? Also, one last thing, how do I let a school know that they are my first choice other than simply applying EDP? Can I even make it clear without sounding desperate?

Sorry for the bombardement of questions! Thanks again!

 

[aristrutz523]

Hey, thanks so much for answering my questions thus far. I have two short ones!
Does receiving research grants mean anything to adcoms in the review process?
Also is it looked down upon if 2 semesters of your research also provided you with course credit?
Thanks!

 

[moop]

Hi @hushcom thanks again for replying to so many people!

I am from Ohio and I know that it's a great state to be from if you want to go to medical school.
I plan on applying this year to about 15 or so schools including all of my state schools (I especially want to go to Cincinnati).

I am currently attending a top 15 school thats very well-known for research, and I am heavy on the research side of things. I currently have about 1000 hours in a pulm lab and about 300 hours in a neuro lab as well. I have a little bit of volunteering (teaching middle school students science lessons, coaching a summer baseball team, and being a part of tools for schools) but no clinical volunteering. I do however have a good amount of shadowing (~80 hours) at the university hospital. Is it fine that I don't have clinical volunteering right now since I have a good amount of clinical experience with shadowing?

I also have a couple more ECs, but my concern is that my cGPA is a 3.63 right now and my sGPA is around a 3.5. I have received variations of B's from chemistry courses and one C in Organic I (I got a B+ in II) but have two flat A's in physics from summerschool at a very large but non-prestigious university near home. Will the fact that I got A's from another school seem fishy even though it's not like its from a CC?

Unfortunately I feel like my research workload sort of caused my grades to suffer, but I find that most students here struggle to get an A in the big general pre-reqs here (average sGPA for students accepted to med school is around a 3.5 for our school and about 70% are accepted each year). I plan on taking the MCAT in May and was wondering if Cincinnati is a realistic option for me since the school's averages are a decent amount higher than my stats? Will med schools take into account the difficulty of the undergraduate school? Also, one last thing, how do I let a school know that they are my first choice other than simply applying EDP? Can I even make it clear without sounding desperate?

Sorry for the bombardement of questions! Thanks again!

90% of these questions can be answered by searching the forums. Don't be lazy

Do your homework first and then ask clarifying questions so 1) @hushcom doesn't have to waste time dishing out general SDN knowledge and 2) you can get better, more individually tailored and subtle answers.

 

[da3]

90% of these questions can be answered by searching the forums. Don't be lazy

Do your homework first and then ask clarifying questions so 1) @hushcom doesn't have to waste time dishing out general SDN knowledge and 2) you can get better, more individually tailored and subtle answers.

I'm sorry but I have never been on here and didn't know where to look. Simply saw this thread as one of the first ones and he has been giving out such great info that I thought I might ask about my situation since others have done the same. Can you direct me to where I need to go for this?

 

[velodork]

I'm sorry but I have never been on here and didn't know where to look. Simply saw this thread as one of the first ones and he has been giving out such great info that I thought I might ask about my situation since others have done the same. Can you direct me to where I need to go for this?

search function! you have learned an important lesson in the world of sdn: to many here there is definitely such a thing as a stupid question :-/

 

[moop]

I'm sorry but I have never been on here and didn't know where to look. Simply saw this thread as one of the first ones and he has been giving out such great info that I thought I might ask about my situation since others have done the same. Can you direct me to where I need to go for this?

Oh ok then. Just use search in the top right corner on the page.

 

[Spirit of the Student Doc]

Just curious guys. I've gone PRN (2 days a month) at my clinical job and took a different lab tech job closer to home (pay is about the same, commute, works better with school, benefits aren't a joke like the other job, evening over nights, etc.). This new position is in a very large hospital and has no clinical experience while the other position had tons of clinical experience, rural hospital.

If it became a problem down the road (time constraint issues & I had to pick one job or the other).... would it be okay for me to leave the other job that counts as clinical experience altogether with no way to make up for it? I've logged a few thousand hours there but I don't apply for 2 1/2 years, is that too long of a gap?

 

[hushcom]

Just curious guys. I've gone PRN (2 days a month) at my clinical job and took a different lab tech job closer to home (pay is about the same, commute, works better with school, benefits aren't a joke like the other job, evening over nights, etc.). This new position is in a very large hospital and has no clinical experience while the other position had tons of clinical experience, rural hospital.

If it became a problem down the road (time constraint issues & I had to pick one job or the other).... would it be okay for me to leave the other job that counts as clinical experience altogether with no way to make up for it? I've logged a few thousand hours there but I don't apply for 2 1/2 years, is that too long of a gap?

Clinical experience does not really have an expiration date, and after a few thousand hours you have probably reached a point of diminishing returns. I would not feel bad about leaving the clinical job if it becomes untenable.

 

[hushcom]

Hey, thanks so much for answering my questions thus far. I have two short ones!
Does receiving research grants mean anything to adcoms in the review process?
Also is it looked down upon if 2 semesters of your research also provided you with course credit?
Thanks!

1. Getting grants is a positive, although the magnitude of the effect is dependent on the nature of the award (purpose, amount, and how much of a hand you actually had in securing it).
2. IMHO the benefits of doing research are independent of whether course credit was obtained, so I personally would not care.

 

[hushcom]

Hi @hushcom thanks again for replying to so many people!

I am from Ohio and I know that it's a great state to be from if you want to go to medical school.
I plan on applying this year to about 15 or so schools including all of my state schools (I especially want to go to Cincinnati).

I am currently attending a top 15 school thats very well-known for research, and I am heavy on the research side of things. I currently have about 1000 hours in a pulm lab and about 300 hours in a neuro lab as well. I have a little bit of volunteering (teaching middle school students science lessons, coaching a summer baseball team, and being a part of tools for schools) but no clinical volunteering. I do however have a good amount of shadowing (~80 hours) at the university hospital. Is it fine that I don't have clinical volunteering right now since I have a good amount of clinical experience with shadowing?

I also have a couple more ECs, but my concern is that my cGPA is a 3.63 right now and my sGPA is around a 3.5. I have received variations of B's from chemistry courses and one C in Organic I (I got a B+ in II) but have two flat A's in physics from summerschool at a very large but non-prestigious university near home. Will the fact that I got A's from another school seem fishy even though it's not like its from a CC?

Unfortunately I feel like my research workload sort of caused my grades to suffer, but I find that most students here struggle to get an A in the big general pre-reqs here (average sGPA for students accepted to med school is around a 3.5 for our school and about 70% are accepted each year). I plan on taking the MCAT in May and was wondering if Cincinnati is a realistic option for me since the school's averages are a decent amount higher than my stats? Will med schools take into account the difficulty of the undergraduate school? Also, one last thing, how do I let a school know that they are my first choice other than simply applying EDP? Can I even make it clear without sounding desperate?

Sorry for the bombardement of questions! Thanks again!

What moop said.

 

[ridethecliche]

I've heard goro and you say that LOI are useless pre-interview, but how is this viewed if you already have an acceptance elsewhere?

Is it prudent to tell a school you haven't interviewed at that you're holding an acceptance but would really like to attend their institution? Or is this tactic best saved for waitlist.

It's mid feb... I'm not sure what I have to lose anymore.

 

[hushcom]

I've heard goro and you say that LOI are useless pre-interview, but how is this viewed if you already have an acceptance elsewhere?

Still useless. Any adcom worth its salt will make decisions based on what the school wants, not what the applicants want. Those with multiple acceptances get their say later on.

 

[ridethecliche]

Danke!

 

[Fluidity of Movement]

Thanks!

 

[hushcom]

My question is, when we finally meet at an interview, and you ask me why I want to become a doctor, will you listen for the next two hours as I explain the emotional, logical, philosophical, and perhaps even somewhat spiritual reasons that I have compiled for why I should be a physician? Do you honestly want to hear the truth, how I would probably be more happy at a different job? That for me, choosing this path required much sacrifice? That I'm more interested in social justice than personal happiness? That there are dozens of other careers that I would love and excel at? That I don't care about money or prestige, and that I will probably end up overseas somewhere impoverished after I've saved enough to open a clinic? That I couldn't care less which school will take me, or whether or not I'm DO or MD, as long as I can practice? When you try to move on to the next question, when I haven't finished explaining the first one (why I want to go to med school), should I interject?

Or should I be the good little applicant, and tell you what is expected and believable?

My real question is, can you and your peers handle an applicant like me? Who should I be? Myself, or someone you can recognize?

If being yourself means launching into two hour diatribe like you are the only person in the world with a heap of emotional, logical, philosophical, and spiritual complexity tied up in your decision to pursue medicine, then by all means, be yourself. A red flag that large will be impossible to miss, and the subsequent decision to reject that much more straightforward.

What you have presented represents a false choice. You can disregard the norms of the application process, you can be disingenuous and tell us what you think we want to hear, ->or<- you can find a way to convey your best side within the process... like every successful candidate does. I routinely interview amazing young people with stories more compelling than what you have shared, and they don't have to interject a word.

 

[nonamechemist]

.

 

[Fluidity of Movement]

agreed.

 

[ridethecliche]

Brevity is the soul of wit... and like other things too I guess.

If it takes you two hours to explain why medicine, then you need an editor.

 

[Goro]

If I may interject into my learned colleague's thread, one thing to consider that Medicine is a language unto itself. One does not have the luxury of discussing a patient's case to an attending for two hours when you only have a few minutes to get the patient stabilized. You have to get to the point, fast.

Communication is an important part of Medicine. In fact, it's part of the of the competencies that you have to master in medical school. If you can't answer "Why medicine?" in a nice, concise statement, then it tells us you're either A) a babbling idiot, B), you don't know how to communicate or C), you don't know the answer.

Also, in a group interview format (such as done at my school), you don't have two hours...you have maybe five minutes.

And no, we can't give you an answer...you have to come up with that, yourself, and from the heart too.

Though I meant this part as a rhetorical question, I am humbled that you answered it seriously. However, now in my mind a question: why ask 'why' if not prepared for the answer? I don't know how long it would take for me answer the 'why' question if every point was made succinct. But how can one discern when to cut equally important parts from a response? Is this not the reason that there are books and chapters on topics, as sentences and paragraphs are not enough to explain certain concepts? Can you give an example of a sentence that would constitute a "goood" answer to the 'why' question?

You have cleared from my mind the worry of seeming disingenuous, which was one of the few remaining neuroticisms that remained. Thank you for this blessing.

The "I'm willing to be a martyr for wanting to be a doctor" logic is not going to convince an Adcom that you're the right choice for his/her school. We want people who are happy with their decisions and will be happy in Medicine. You can achieve a lot more of what you're looking for in other careers.
Do you honestly want to hear the truth, how I would probably be more happy at a different job? That for me, choosing this path required much sacrifice? That I'm more interested in social justice than personal happiness? That there are dozens of other careers that I would love and excel at?

 

[hushcom]

However, now in my mind a question: why ask 'why' if not prepared for the answer?

I am fully prepared to accept whatever answers are given to me, and then take them back to the committee that will generate an answer of its own.

 

[hushcom]

If I may interject into my learned colleague's thread, one thing to consider that Medicine is a language unto itself. One does not have the luxury of discussing a patient's case to an attending for two hours when you only have a few minutes to get the patient stabilized. You have to get to the point, fast.

Communication is an important part of Medicine. In fact, it's part of the of the competencies that you have to master in medical school. If you can't answer "Why medicine?" in a nice, concise statement, then it tells us you're either A) a babbling idiot, B), you don't know how to communicate or C), you don't know the answer.

Also, in a group interview format (such as done at my school), you don't have two hours...you have maybe five minutes.

And no, we can't give you an answer...you have to come up with that, yourself, and from the heart too.

The "I'm willing to be a martyr for wanting to be a doctor" logic is not going to convince an Adcom that you're the right choice for his/her school. We want people who are happy with their decisions and will be happy in Medicine. You can achieve a lot more of what you're looking for in other careers.
Do you honestly want to hear the truth, how I would probably be more happy at a different job? That for me, choosing this path required much sacrifice? That I'm more interested in social justice than personal happiness? That there are dozens of other careers that I would love and excel at?

Well said, agree 100%.

 

[deleted407021]

Hey @hushcom ,

I might be volunteering with a non-profit called "Vegan Outreach". Essentially, they hand out pamphlets on campus in an effort to educate people about the impact the consumption of animal products has on the environment, health and animal welfare.

I know that the whole vegan/vegetarian thing can be a turn off to some people. Would such a thing be potentially hazardous to include in one's med school application?

Thanks!

 

[hushcom]

Hey @hushcom ,

I might be volunteering with a non-profit called "Vegan Outreach". Essentially, they hand out pamphlets on campus in an effort to educate people about the impact the consumption of animal products has on the environment, health and animal welfare.

I know that the whole vegan/vegetarian thing can be a turn off to some people. Would such a thing be potentially hazardous to include in one's med school application?

Thanks!

I wouldn't worry about it. If it comes up during an interview just explain the rationale behind your decision to volunteer. Folks can get defensive when they perceive that someone else is shaming them for their food choices, so obviously don't do that.

I work with quite a few people, including a couple of vegetarians, and that lifestyle seems to be more mainstream than ever.

 

[Benighted]

I've been having trouble coming up with a school list even after looking through the MSAR. I'll share my stats and could you give your suggestions as to which schools best fit my application?

I'm a california resident and so I'll be applying to all California schools.

sGPA: ~3.93
cGPA ~ 3.95
MCAT: 37 (14/12/11).

ECs:
1) Research - 2 years, 400 hours. One poster presentation, no publications.
2) Clinical Volunteering - 220 hours volunteering at the local hospital, all performed within 1.5 years
3) Founder/Co-President of new club focused on educating the general public about infectious diseases and vaccinations. We plan to go to underprivileged schools to teach them about general hygiene and health safety. I also write blog articles for this club's website.
4) Writer for medical literature club for ~6 months. Wrote 3-4 articles on current research going on in school's labs.
5) I also write my own blog with multiple short stories. I might try to get them published as a collection of short stories.
6) Only 10 hours of shadowing right now, but hope to get it up to 30-40 hours by time of application in a few months.

Letters of Rec: 2 science, 1 non-science, and postdoc with whom I do my research. Some "good" letters, but non-science I've only known for 5 weeks.

Personal statement: I discuss my love of learning and my passion for healing and how these qualities manifest in my ultimate desire to be involved in medicine. Probably a decent letter, but I don't think it'd be categorized as "amazing."

 

[hushcom]

I've been having trouble coming up with a school list even after looking through the MSAR. I'll share my stats and could you give your suggestions as to which schools best fit my application?

Getting into California schools is obviously very difficult, but you certainly haven't hurt yourself with those numbers. I suggest you pick through my standard list of 20 non-California schools for applicants with high stats (arranged roughly in order of average MCAT):

Wash U, Duke, Hopkins, Emory, Yale
Harvard, UPenn, Pittsburgh, Mt Sinai, NYU
Northwestern, Cornell, Columbia, Vanderbilt, Tufts
U Chicago, Case Western, Dartmouth, Mayo, Rochester

Choosing among them will involve many personal factors that I cannot gauge, but go to their websites and explore their missions, curricula, and training sites. You should also examine some schools where your numbers are well above the averages. I would suggest the following:

BU, Albert Einstein, Jefferson, Miami, Wake Forest, GWU, Rush, Loyola, Creighton, Tulane

Always remember that when you strip away the extraneous details, one medical school is not necessarily "better" than any other, they are simply different.

 

[NeuResurgens]

How do you view long term (couple years) religious missions? For the one I did I gained fluency in the local language (not practically useful but very difficult) and focused on teaching and service. How should I describe it in order to get the most out of it?

 

[HCHopeful]

@hushcom I'm looking for another take on my particular situation.

Just for some background, I have a 3.91 cGPA 3.94 sGPA; MCATs of 27 (9/9/9) and 31 (12/9/10) with the 31 being most recent.

My application has research (over 500 hours and future publication next spring), non-clinical volunteering (200+ hours), clinical experience (shadowing of 140+ hours), leadership positions (invited and accepted to ODK; leadership honorary on campus), and some hobbies that I think make me unique such as 300+ hours of running a karaoke business and being a member (lead singer) of a band that opened for a well-known recording artist with 20 million + views on YouTube.

In high school, I applied to a program at another college in my state that would have given me guaranteed acceptance to our public in-state medical school had I maintained a 3.5 GPA along with getting a 27 MCAT. I was selected as an alternate for this (5 chosen; 5 alternates); however, I received a full-tuition leadership scholarship from a neighboring college, so I took it and ran.

My experience with medicine goes back to junior high, when my spark of interest was lit, so I began shadowing and being involved with as much as I could throughout my high school years. Clearly that is why I decided to apply for the scholarship from the other university that would have opened a medical school spot for me. As I believe is evident, I stuck with my interest.

Unfortunately, one area of the application process I completely am lacking is with clinical volunteering. I have 30 hours with the Red Cross, but that clearly doesn't cut it. I have just now begun (4 hours completed) volunteering at a nursing home in my hometown. I plan to have at least 75 hours (hopefully 100) by the time I apply in June. Many have told me that squeezing the volunteering into the last 4-5 months isn't a good idea, but at this point I have no other option.

My question is simply this. Will my lack of clinical volunteering until so late in my college life have a significant impact on how adcom members view me? I believe I have demonstrated over the past 7-8 years of my life that this is what I want to do, but unfortunately high school experiences rarely matter.

Thanks for any input and taking the time to answer our questions.

 

[hushcom]

How do you view long term (couple years) religious missions? For the one I did I gained fluency in the local language (not practically useful but very difficult) and focused on teaching and service. How should I describe it in order to get the most out of it?

You will have to be a little more descriptive of what you were doing on this religious mission for me to offer any advice.