Another Adcom, ask me (almost) anything

[hushcom]

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Do you dock points/give weaker feedback if a candidate is a cookie cutter applicant and has no unique EC or story? Also would you happen to be a mouth cancer surgeon?

It's difficult to really hold it against someone if he/she was born into a stable middle class home and never had any truly harrowing obstacles to overcome. But yes, those applicants have a strong tendency to blend together. I have no great method of parsing them.

I might be an ENT. Or I might not.

 

[LuciusVorenus]

I understand that other acceptances might impact the wait list order, but how often does your interview report depend on "I feel like this person would come here if accepted." In other words, would you be likely to include something like "this person might not come here if accepted" or "it seemed like this school is this person's first choice" in your interview report if it's really obvious?

When you determine wait list ranking based off of other acceptances do you use US News to determine the likelihood that someone would attend? What if my first choice is actually a school lower on the rankings than one I have been accepted to (I really don't care about US News at all to be honest). Would a letter of intent help here?

Is it in bad form to say that ONE of the reasons you want to go to a school is that it's closer to your family? Or that you'd rather not leave your home state?

 

[hushcom]

Can you share more details about this? What has dazzled you? (Examples might be great if you are allowed to disclose.)

In a word, chemistry. And not specifically with me, but some applicants just really seem to hit it off with everyone they meet.

As you look back into your past, what did you learn about yourself, having seen how you prioritize different things and now being able to see the subtle differences?

Interesting question. When I took the MCAT, prep-courses existed but were exotic. In the 80's nobody even studied for the MCAT. In the 70's nobody studied for the National Boards (USMLE Step 1, in modern parlance). I honestly think my application in 2013 would be uniformly tossed in the trash. If I had to play the modern application game it would have certainly pushed me further out of my comfort zone at a young age, which in retrospect might have been a good thing.

My last question is: If you can change one thing about this whole medical school admission process, what would it be?

That's a tough one, but I might consider limiting the number of schools an applicant can apply to. The competition is fierce but it is also largely redundant. In theory it would be less costly and less time consuming for everyone, but who knows how it would work out in practice.

EDIT: I have one more question. You've said your strict monetary compensation is zero. What made you to be part of the admission committee in the first place? If you did so voluntarily, why?

I was happy to get a glimpse of the admissions world, but at the end of the day it was politics.

 

[mik30102]

Hi Hush, thank you for doing this! This is kind of a follow up to a prior question asked about Nurses-MD, but do you have any differing opinion of pharmacists going into medicine, specifically applying directly after finishing pharmacy school?

 

[hushcom]

I understand that other acceptances might impact the wait list order, but how often does your interview report depend on "I feel like this person would come here if accepted." In other words, would you be likely to include something like "this person might not come here if accepted" or "it seemed like this school is this person's first choice" in your interview report if it's really obvious?

I personally think it is a mistake to try and predict people's decisions without any data to back me up. I recommend the people I like for acceptance, end of story. A fair number do not matriculate here, but that's just the game.

When you determine wait list ranking based off of other acceptances do you use US News to determine the likelihood that someone would attend? What if my first choice is actually a school lower on the rankings than one I have been accepted to (I really don't care about US News at all to be honest). Would a letter of intent help here?

We do not use US News, there is simply a general knowledge of the schools we are competitive with and those we are not. An LOI may not help, but it likely won't hurt.

Is it in bad form to say that ONE of the reasons you want to go to a school is that it's closer to your family? Or that you'd rather not leave your home state?

I think it's bad form if that's the only reason you can come up with, but being near family is a valid reason to choose where to spend four years of intensive education.

 

[hushcom]

Hi Hush, thank you for doing this! This is kind of a follow up to a prior question asked about Nurses-MD, but do you have any differing opinion of pharmacists going into medicine, specifically applying directly after finishing pharmacy school?

Nope, same story. You need a viable and articulated reason to want to switch. What is it about being a physician that appeals to you beyond being a pharmacist?

 

[Dr Turkelton]

How would you view an applicant who has an abysmal undergrad GPA (3.0ish) but a 4.0 in an smp and a 37 MCAT?
Due you take the applicants undergrad school into consideration? If you do, how do you view applicants from the University of Toronto? Do you view it as a more difficult school?

Thanks for doing this!

 

[Jimsy]

What can one do to increase his/her chances of getting an acceptance off a waitlist? Or is it pretty much out of our control at that point?

@hushcom Since you skipped over my question, I'm assuming it's out of our control..

 

[Lya]

Thank you for your responses.

In a word, chemistry. And not specifically with me, but some applicants just really seem to hit it off with everyone they meet.

Interesting question. When I took the MCAT, prep-courses existed but were exotic. In the 80's nobody even studied for the MCAT. In the 70's nobody studied for the National Boards (USMLE Step 1, in modern parlance). I honestly think my application in 2013 would be uniformly tossed in the trash. If I had to play the modern application game it would have certainly pushed me further out of my comfort zone at a young age, which in retrospect might have been a good thing.

That's a tough one, but I might consider limiting the number of schools an applicant can apply to. The competition is fierce but it is also largely redundant. In theory it would be less costly and less time consuming for everyone, but who knows how it would work out in practice.

I was happy to get a glimpse of the admissions world, but at the end of the day it was politics.

Chemistry as in personality or maturity or similar past experiences or the rationales behind decisions?

Tell me more about politics. You already mentioned about committee members with different priorities and coming up with decisions that make almost everyone comfortable. What about it?

@hushcom Since you skipped over my question, I'm assuming it's out of our control..

He mentioned about moving up in the wait list after being accepted to other schools and maybe sending LOIs (that might not help much, but likely won't hurt either).

 

[deleted407021]

Hey @hushcom . I'm not sure if you missed my questions on the first page. Just making sure you didn't skip over them. Thanks, doctor.

 

[hushcom]

@hushcom Since you skipped over my question, I'm assuming it's out of our control..

See post #24.

 

[hushcom]

Chemistry as in personality or maturity or similar past experiences or the rationales behind decisions?

All of the above.

Tell me more about politics. You already mentioned about committee members with different priorities and coming up with decisions that make almost everyone comfortable. What about it?

Committees function because they bring different perspectives to a shared problem. Some people are mostly concerned about academic performance, and will be vocal when they see an applicant as deficient in that area. Others champion people who have overcome serious obstacles in life. Ideally we figure out each others' idiosyncrasies and develop some level of trust, so when I say "applicant X has some blemishes but I think we should give him/her a chance" the rest of the group will give my opinion some weight.

 

[johnnycage377]

When you interview an applicant who has a low GPA and/or bad grades on their transcript and you confront them about it, what are some good and bad ways you've seen people respond to that question?

 

[hushcom]

Hey, doctor. Thanks for taking the time to address our questions!

What's your opinion, if any, on the early decision program?
When y'all look at "leadership", are positions with titles what you like to see, or can someone label an activity as being involved in leadership even if they have no official title?
It's an old one, but: Is cGPA a better overall indicator of med school success than sGPA?
If someone has no hospital experience but has worked in a small clinic for several years, are they at a disadvantage?
Would you find being a classically trained musician to be a good plus for an applicant? <-- Maybe I have that going for me!

I'll think of some more, later, assuming you will still be willing to answer by then. I don't want to swamp you. Thanks, again, @hushcom

Sorry, missed it.

1. I have no opinion on early decision programs.
2. I judge on a case-by-case basis.
3. I'm not sure, but a biochem major will likely have an easier time in M1 than someone who does the minimum prereqs and majors in history.
4. Most medicine is ambulatory nowadays, so I would be fine with that. A LOR from a doctor you work with would be a bonus.
5. Musicians are good because demonstrating that level of skill take serious perseverance, but it won't make you.

 

[chenzt]

What is the object in your avatar?

 

[MangoPlant]

Do you differentiate between US Citizens and Green card holders (permanent residents) when considering for admissions?

 

[hushcom]

When you interview an applicant who has a low GPA and/or bad grades on their transcript and you confront them about it, what are some good and bad ways you've seen people respond to that question?

I don't think "confront" is the word I would use, but explaining bad grades should be straightforward: "My grade(s) sucked because of X, so I though about what I was doing wrong, changed my habits, and they got better." The triad of taking responsibility, reflecting on one's mistakes, and adapting to improve is a winner, assuming it actually happened.

 

[hushcom]

What is the object in your avatar?

A jom gabbar.

 

[hushcom]

Do you differentiate between US Citizens and Green card holders (permanent residents) when considering for admissions?

Nope.

 

[hushcom]

How would you view an applicant who has an abysmal undergrad GPA (3.0ish) but a 4.0 in an smp and a 37 MCAT?
Due you take the applicants undergrad school into consideration? If you do, how do you view applicants from the University of Toronto? Do you view it as a more difficult school?

Thanks for doing this!

Depends on the quality of the SMP and the reason(s) behind the "abysmal" undergrad GPA. Your MCAT is quite comforting, though.

I definitely take undergrad school into consideration, although it can be a jungle sorting out the meaning of a given degree from a given institution. Students attend different colleges and universities for a wide variety of reasons. Some extremely bright people attend less competitive schools for financial and/or family reasons, and some places with strong name recognition have rampant grade inflation. Occasionally I find out that a major at a school I have never heard of is highly rigorous, which gives an applicant from that program a gold star. I don't recall coming across someone from the University of Toronto, so I am at a loss there.

 

[pjk77]

What do you like to see people doing a gap year? You mentioned scribes are looked at positively. How would you "rank" scribing vs medical assisting (taking vital signs, gathering info on reasons for visit before physician enters- etc.)? What do you think of people who do something really unique but not medically related during a gap year? Is scribing become less of a positive experience because its losing its unique-ness? If possible, could you list experiences that you have seen during a gap year that have really helped out an application?
Thanks again for your help!

 

[LostinLift]

I am a practicing physician who serves on the admissions committee of an allopathic medical school in the United States. I am also not new to SDN, having seen the cast of characters evolve here over a number of years. Some recent threads in the pre-allo forum have compelled me to start this one. While I am not a longstanding and venerated member of the committee, perhaps someone will find my two cents useful and/or interesting.

So please, have at it.

What would you recommend to incoming MS1 students? (aside from not studying, travel, etc.) Is there anything that you think is important that we should get a head start on or you wish you would have started earlier in school or done differently?

 

[johnnycage377]

Do you frown upon applicants who are primarily applying to DO schools? What if someone is applying to a very large #(>35) of schools?

 

[RCPreMD]

Is research experience heavily factored into the decisions at your institution?

 

[About28]

Thanks for doing this! Do you think that applying early (July) vs. late (October) can really make a huge difference?

 

[clavicle]

It's somewhat difficult to say without seeing the course selection during junior and senior year. Quite a few people start out in community college, particularly in CA. With a solid MCAT I don't think it would hurt you too badly.

Thank you for the reply. As far as course selection goes, if the classes from both years were more difficult ones, (several biochemistry lectures and labs, and other upper level science classes), and zero fluff/GE classes were involved, would that look better to you? The only fluff class I've taken both years is the Spanish class I'm taking now for fun.

 

[Itisneverlupus]

Hi Hush! Thank you in advance for putting time towards this.

My question involves LORs:
If I've been working for 2 years as an EMT, would it look poorly to not choose a LOR from my agency? I have strong and personal letters already, from science professors, research PI, physicians, volunteer coordinators, etc.

Thanks!

2INL

 

[Itisneverlupus]

Sorry for the double post. SDN mobile kills me sometimes!

 

[REMMAH]

How do you (and your colleagues) generally view applicants who were college/pro athletes?

 

[Funke]

I have a question about next spring. I have a liberal arts degree, and I'm currently back in school taking the minimum pre-reqs to apply next year. I have pretty good, diverse volunteer experience from college and interesting ECs. However, my shadowing is lacking.

My question is: next spring, the semester before I apply, should I take biochemistry to show that I can handle upper level sciences since I was a liberal arts major (3.85 BA GPA, 4.0sGPA so far), or would it be better to use the time I would put into biochemistry and do lots of shadowing and more volunteering?

Thank you for answering our questions btw!

 

[DGCT00]

Hello @hushcom , thanks for taking the time to go through all these questions. Super helpful!

My question: How much pull does a single interviewer have in an admission decision? I ask because I recently had a really, really great interview (to the point where the interviewer said he hoped to see me in the fall) but did not receive an acceptance in the most recent batch of letters sent out. Thank you in advance!

 

[hushcom]

What do you like to see people doing a gap year? You mentioned scribes are looked at positively. How would you "rank" scribing vs medical assisting (taking vital signs, gathering info on reasons for visit before physician enters- etc.)? What do you think of people who do something really unique but not medically related during a gap year? Is scribing become less of a positive experience because its losing its unique-ness? If possible, could you list experiences that you have seen during a gap year that have really helped out an application?
Thanks again for your help!

If the gap year exists because of a failed application cycle I think you need to spend time improving your application. If you simply have a year to kill and your app is in decent shape then do whatever interesting things you want. Just don't sit in your parents' basement and play X-Box One for twelve months.

Scribing and being a MA are comparable experiences in my book, although the scribes I have met seem to develop closer working relationships with physicians. I cannot answer your last query, and even if I could I doubt it would help you.

 

[hushcom]

I had abysmal undergraduate grades myself, and don't have a particularly good excuse for it - I didn't really know what I wanted to do and probably wasn't mature enough to handle the rigors of college. When I decided to pursue medicine, though, I identified my bad study habits and have since done a 180 (performed well in additional classes, in an SMP, and on the MCAT.) Would you consider this a satisfying response to the, "Why bad grades?" question? I wish I had a more compelling answer, but I think it's as simple as that.

Also, if I may ask, what SMP programs do you consider to have reputations as most rigorous?

Your experience is fairly common. Quite a few people I interview were academically listless until they decided on a career path. If your subsequent performance is solid then it speaks well of your abilities. Might not get you a full ride at Hopkins but it's not going to kill you, either.

I always have to defer to others with more experience when it comes to judging SMPs.

 

[hushcom]

What would you recommend to incoming MS1 students? (aside from not studying, travel, etc.) Is there anything that you think is important that we should get a head start on or you wish you would have started earlier in school or done differently?

I can only tell you from personal experience that when you get an acceptance it's too late to prep in any meaningful way. Enjoy the time off, because it will get much more precious soon enough.

 

[hushcom]

Do you frown upon applicants who are primarily applying to DO schools? What if someone is applying to a very large #(>35) of schools?

I do not know or care where else people apply, and when I was interviewing for various positions I always found it silly to be asked. Even if I did know, getting into medical school is competitive, and I would not look down on someone for casting a wide net.

 

[hushcom]

Is research experience heavily factored into the decisions at your institution?

Schools vary a great deal in their emphasis on research. For me research experience is a plus, but it only matters a great deal in one of two circumstances:
1. The applicant has been exceptionally productive, with multiple publications to quality journals, or
2. The applicant has no apparent grasp of the research that he/she allegedly did.

The former helps, the latter hurts.

 

[hushcom]

Thanks for doing this! Do you think that applying early (July) vs. late (October) can really make a huge difference?

Yes, it can make a huge difference. That is not to say an October app is doomed, but acceptances are handed out much more liberally early in the season.

 

[hushcom]

Thank you for the reply. As far as course selection goes, if the classes from both years were more difficult ones, (several biochemistry lectures and labs, and other upper level science classes), and zero fluff/GE classes were involved, would that look better to you? The only fluff class I've taken both years is the Spanish class I'm taking now for fun.

Yes, it would look better. Loading semesters with relatively easy classes is the oldest trick in the book, and we see right through it.

 

[hushcom]

Hi Hush! Thank you in advance for putting time towards this.

My question involves LORs:
If I've been working for 2 years as an EMT, would it look poorly to not choose a LOR from my agency? I have strong and personal letters already, from science professors, research PI, physicians, volunteer coordinators, etc.

Thanks!

2INL

Your other letter writers sound very appropriate, and I would not assume that an agency letter would be necessary or relevant. I think you are fine without one.

 

[Aromatic N]

Thank you for your time!

My MMI interview at my top choice school did not go well.

Would you recommend sending a post-interview (but pre-waitlist) LOI that 1) expresses interest in the school as a #1 choice, 2) acknowledges that I felt I didn't perform my best at the interview, and 3) mentions that I already have other acceptances to comparably ranked schools that I would gladly turn down to attend this school?

Thank you again 🙂

 

[About28]

Yes, it can make a huge difference. That is not to say an October app is doomed, but acceptances are handed out much more liberally early in the season.

Thanks! As a follow up, I applied super late with a pretty good app, so I'm in the small pool (or its preinterview hold equivalent) at a bunch of places, do I have any hope of getting an interview at this point? Is there anything else I can do that would help me get an interview?

 

[hushcom]

How do you (and your colleagues) generally view applicants who were college/pro athletes?

High level athletics is a definite plus, as it demonstrates many positive qualities. It will not make up for substandard academics, though. If you want to be a physician, and you cannot make adequate grades because you are too busy with sport, that does not speak well of you.

 

[mrh125]

How does a sub 30 mcat score affect how you view the person's application? say it's a 27-29, what impact would that have assuming everything else is fine (3.6+ gpa, good e.c.s, volunteering, interests, research)? or what if a person got a 29 the first time he took the mcat and a 31 on the second, how would that be viewed? (AAMCs says something about a 3 pt improvement rule, which seems a bit unforgiving, do you follow that rule?)

 

[hushcom]

Thank you for your time!

My MMI interview at my top choice school did not go well.

Would you recommend sending a post-interview (but pre-waitlist) LOI that 1) expresses interest in the school as a #1 choice, 2) acknowledges that I felt I didn't perform my best at the interview, and 3) mentions that I already have other acceptances to comparably ranked schools that I would gladly turn down to attend this school?

Thank you again 🙂

No, just sit on your hands and wait for now. When people feel pushed they tend to push back.

 

[hushcom]

I have a question about next spring. I have a liberal arts degree, and I'm currently back in school taking the minimum pre-reqs to apply next year. I have pretty good, diverse volunteer experience from college and interesting ECs. However, my shadowing is lacking.

My question is: next spring, the semester before I apply, should I take biochemistry to show that I can handle upper level sciences since I was a liberal arts major (3.85 BA GPA, 4.0sGPA so far), or would it be better to use the time I would put into biochemistry and do lots of shadowing and more volunteering?

Thank you for answering our questions btw!

Tough call, but if your MCAT is solid I would probably get some more clinical time in. If it is <30 I would likely take biochem and try to kill it.

 

[hushcom]

Hello @hushcom , thanks for taking the time to go through all these questions. Super helpful!

My question: How much pull does a single interviewer have in an admission decision?

Anywhere from 0-100%. There are simply too many variables for me to speculate.

 

[hushcom]

Thanks! As a follow up, I applied super late with a pretty good app, so I'm in the small pool (or its preinterview hold equivalent) at a bunch of places, do I have any hope of getting an interview at this point? Is there anything else I can do that would help me get an interview?

Of course there is hope. But prepare for another cycle.

 

[hushcom]

How does a sub 30 mcat score affect how you view the person's application? say it's a 27-29, what impact would that have assuming everything else is fine (3.6+ gpa, good e.c.s, volunteering, interests, research)? or what if a person got a 29 the first time he took the mcat and a 31 on the second, how would that be viewed? (AAMCs says something about a 3 pt improvement rule, which seems a bit unforgiving, do you follow that rule?)

I think the first digit of the MCAT is important on a subconscious (or perhaps even conscious) level. Somehow a 29 just looks worse than it should when compared to a 30. But I believe the mean MCAT for acceptances is ~31, so there are plenty of <30's getting into quality schools all across the nation. I have no data to back me up on this, but my feeling is that a 30+ is more likely to get an outright acceptance, whereas <30 is much more likely to come off a wait list. Please take that with a large grain of salt.

 

[hushcom]

Time for some scotch, we can pick this up again tomorrow or Saturday.

 

[atomi]

Thank you for your time!

My MMI interview at my top choice school did not go well.

Would you recommend sending a post-interview (but pre-waitlist) LOI that 1) expresses interest in the school as a #1 choice, 2) acknowledges that I felt I didn't perform my best at the interview, and 3) mentions that I already have other acceptances to comparably ranked schools that I would gladly turn down to attend this school?

Thank you again 🙂

I agree with the above response to this question. Good advice for life in general is to always resist the urge to highlight and explain one's shortcomings. Even if you have no intention of trying to make an excuse and just want to own up to it in an email, why on earth would you want to highlight that? You didn't do anything you need to apologize for. Younger generations already have a negative bias for being unable to accept criticism/rejection or failures coming from the 'everybody's a winner' method of parenting kids in the 90s. Trying to address the failure in an email will either highlight a negative the interviewer never noticed in the first place and make you look neurotic or else make you look like a control freak who is used to winning all the time and trying to spin the situation after the fact. Pushing them like this will make them feel like you are trying to manipulate them (perhaps by an appeal to emotion), and people in positions of power don't like to feel manipulated.