Another Adcom, ask me (almost) anything

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dorian baltar said:
My PS is going to follow a similar pattern. People in high school told me I was smart and should be a doctor and I making a career decision at 17-18 was too difficult so I just followed what they said. After a year of college, I abandoned medicine as a career choice for 7 years. I did a lot of stuff (worked, lived in another country, went back to school) then realized medicine was actually what I want to do.
Should I not mention my initial "interest" (also read as completely immature decision) in medicine at all or is it ok to use it as a starting point for the self-reflection and experiences that made me realize medicine is what I want to pursue?
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It sounds fine. The "bad reasons" I alluded to earlier are more along the lines of "I initially became interested in medicine for the high salary, attractive nurses, access to prescription medicines, and to show up my high school gym teacher, but after volunteering in an ER I want to be a primary care doctor in rural Mississippi who lives in a trailer and accepts chickens as payment."
 
knv2u said:
If a student enrolls in community college classes during high school prior to matriculating to a four year university, will medical schools recalculate the AMCAS GPA to exclude these if the dual enrollment credits are bringing up the student's GPA? If a student's GPA is a 3.95 with those credits and a 3.85 without them, how will the GPA be viewed and which will have more weight (if it matters)?

Thanks for doing this!
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I'm already lost, but I can tell you that we don't recalculate anything, and I do not see much of a difference between a 3.85 and a 3.95. Honestly.
 
Thanks for taking questions:

1. how specific does your "why medicine" response have to be? I feel like sometimes my "why medicine" response is "because I've done a ton of things from a ton of different experiences and learned a ton from each of them". Do I need to have a definitive "because this and this"? And if so, any advice on how to condense a lot of experiences into small themes?

2. What is one thing applicants have done that make you say/think "wow, that is awesome".
 
Command said:
How do you put up with patients, premeds, & med students who ask the same questions over and over, year after year?
For me at least, there comes a point when I just start responding sarcastically.
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Probably by switching jobs if needed instead of being a sarcastic condescending know-it-all. Only difference between you and them is a few years. Try and remember that.
 
2 questions - appreciate the responses!

1) how important do you think it is to submit an early application? I am a junior @ a quarter system school weighing submission prior to spring grades.

2) As a transfer from an avg. 4-yr to top 10 ranked 4-yr, took all my sciences before transferring and am pursuing a humanities major, is there any need to take upper level sciences like a CC->4 yr transfer would? carrying a 3.95+ sGPA
 
I have a couple of questions as well!

1. How would you view an applicant who got B+'s (and possibly a B-) in all the pre-reqs except physics? What if the applicant did well (A's) in several upper-division courses and science major (say, Neuroscience) courses?

2. You've mentioned that doing good junior and senior year can partially make up for poor freshmen and sophomore grades. However, how does doing well senior year matter if these grades aren't even included in your application...I mean, how would you see these grades in time? Were you suggesting this with the idea that the applicant would take a gap year? Or is it possible to send some sort of "grade update" letters?

Once again, thank you for helping us!
 
mrh125 said:
Wow, really? It's long because I wanted to clearly explain my own situation. It takes effort to write all of that up as well as read it. It's not just one sided. makes me really wonder what sort of adcom you really are if you can't take the time and patience to answer a very simple question from someone who obviously took a decent amount of effort to explain a very specific situation (if you can't judge and reward people accordingly to the amount of effort they put into the process, what sort of adcom admissions officers are you?!) I will try again, how do you judge e.c.s
Or compare students e.c.s? Does it matter if they didn't do volunteering or research until after they graduated? Does it look worse If a student does just school mostly? (What if the amount of units per quarter is high load)
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Concision is a huge component in good writing. A giant wall of text of grammar errors and irrelevant details is not something anyone wants to read.
 
Has there been a time when the committee is evaluating an applicant after an interview, and they wonder why did they ever invite the applicant for an interview in the first place? (opinion changes after second look at application)???
 
hushcom said:
Bi- or multilingualism is so common that I hardly notice it. You should not exaggerate your skill, however. Some of my bi- and multilingual colleagues have cold busted applicants who claim a level of proficiency that they do not possess.
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Well, I'm mostly learning it to know what my in-laws are saying... but also because I would like to work with this immigrant community as well as do work in the country.
 
Aerus said:
Concision is a huge component in good writing. A giant wall of text of grammar errors and irrelevant details is not something anyone wants to read.
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it's not a giant wall of grammatical errors and even if it had grammatical errors it's pretty easy to read if you have the attention span of anything beyond a gnat, it's a wall of things I did lmao. the only thing giant around here is you being a giant kiss-ass.
 
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mrh125 said:
it's not a giant wall of grammatical errors and even if it had grammatical errors it's pretty easy to read if you have the attention span of anything beyond a gnat, it's a wall of things I did lmao. the only thing giant around here is you being a giant kiss-ass.
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It doesn't matter if it's "easy" to read. The adcom is doing everyone a service. At least check your writing and make it easy on the eyes. I'll repeat this again if it doesn't get through you: NOBODY wants to read a giant wall of irrelevant details and grammatical errors. Is it easy to do? Yes. Is it fun? No.

This isn't their job, so they can help however much they want. Don't be apprehensive when someone gives you constructive criticism. Lazily typing without concern for the reader, ESPECIALLY when they are doing you a service without anything in return is something you should avoid doing. This goes beyond "kissing up". I'm quite confident others share my opinion. Don't be selfish and be grateful.
 
mrh125 said:
There's nothing constructive about your white knighting. white knight harder for the dude. if the dude had anything more to say he wouldn't need you to be his professional secretary brown-noser. i also hate to break it to you but kissing adcoms butts isn't going to get you into med school either.

real talk only reason you're posting that **** is because he's an adcom. My long post exudes effort because I took the time to post everything about my e.c.s. All your post exudes is the fact that you'd give that dude fellatio, no questions asked.
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:whoa:

In all seriousness though, I agree with Aerus. Your question could've been simplified quite a bit without all the unnecessary details and hushcom has every right to not respond. No need to accuse others of brown nosing (considering everyone is supposedly anon on SDN..it's probably not the best use of time 😛)
A little humility might get you more sympathy.
 
timelesss said:
:whoa:

In all seriousness though, I agree with Aerus. Your question could've been simplified quite a bit without all the unnecessary details and hushcom has every right to not respond. No need to accuse others of brown nosing (considering everyone is supposedly anon on SDN..it's probably not the best use of time 😛)
A little humility might get you more sympathy.
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the humility well was already drained because i spent all that time writing that post to get clarification about whether or not my ecs were okay to get a smug "tl;dr". If I could have cut out more details I would have.
 
mrh125 said:
the humility well was already drained because i spent all that time writing that post to get clarification about whether or not my ecs were okay to get a smug "tl;dr". If I could have cut out more details I would have.
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I agree it was a little smug, but unfortunately this is still the internet adcom or not, and hushcom doesn't exactly owe you a response. Maybe organizing your ec's into a list and rephrasing your question would help make your question more inviting to read?
 
timelesss said:
I agree it was a little smug, but unfortunately this is still the internet adcom or not, and hushcom doesn't exactly owe you a response. Maybe organizing your ec's into a list and rephrasing your question would help make your question more inviting to read?
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fair enough. now that's good constructive criticism that I can appreciate.
 
mrh125 said:
How do you view students e.c.s and what is your take on mine? A lot of premeds go through a mad dash for e.c.s. I've personally done a couple hundred of hours in research and internships. one working for developing solutions to the issues with the New York water supply in the catskill reservoir and I was going to be published but that fell through. One where I worked a global non-profit called "global healthshare" and researched to develop innovative solutions such as solar panels for rural Indian hospitals, food purification techniques to resolve aflatoxin associated issues in food in Uganda. I also set up their websites and polished their research grants (that alone was 5 units of research for two quarters). I was also going to help the professor on his prime research project that involved transplanting an enzyme from tobacco to rice, but no matter how much I followed up he didnt follow through. I also worked part time at cvs (8 hrs a day 3 days a week for a quarter), 8 hrs a day 2 days a week for two quarters at a winery (I basically did generic catering and wine recommendations while trying to find time to study for ochem). I also worked under a cosmetic dentist as a receptionist, took notes for her and helped patients for a nearly a year on and off and did about 40 hrs of generic busy work plant biology research. That was what I did as undergrad and I really didn't get much time to volunteer experience in the medical field until I graduated (I only got time to shadow a psychiatrist, cardiologist, and like one other doctor). Now that I graduated I am working for a gi doc as a volunteer scribe and planning on completing 500 hrs of volunteering with her in the next few months so that will be my e.cs. Is that enough Ecs to show that I was doing stuff? Is it bad that I'm doing volunteering late before I apply this year? (As opposed to several years as an undergrad). I really think that not doing it until i graduated was a good idea as it allows me to focus on what I'm doing and really analyze and try and understand the patients and their pathology, as well as patient-doctor interactions. It was really hard to get the time to fit much in and courses such as organic chemistry required me to spend 6-10 hrs of studying a day. I have a 3.62 gpa and a strong improvement trend as well and I am the first person in my family to graduate from college. For a little bit I also tutored in premed courses and math as well, but I had to stop that. It was also tough balancing school with the responsibilities I did have and I had to cut back to keep my gpa and continue doing well in school.
Click to expand...

I had to highlight your questions or else I would have had to read it again just to find them =_=. That's one thing you could have made clearer 🙂.

Answers to your questions (from the perspective of a recent applicant):

1. ECs are different for everyone - that is a very broad and hard question to answer and it really depends. It's more important to have a few ECs that you really enjoy than many that you just check off the list, and that will show on your application. See more below.
2. You seem to have plenty of meaningful ECs, so your quantity is fine. The quality of the work you do and how you describe it will be more important. Just from a brief read, it seems like you are "blaming" your professor/PI for not having you published. Don't do that please on your application. Just makes you sound entitled (I can also tell this from your posting - do remember the adcom is doing everyone a service here and has no obligation to answer your question, regardless of how smug you think his reply to you was. Would you have preferred he just ignored you? If I got a reply like that, I would have just laughed and made a more concise post.). Describe what you did (not what you would have liked to do). Emphasize your activities' importance, what you learned, etc., but don't do more than that.
3. Doing volunteering late is fine, especially if you lack clinical volunteering. I don't think adcoms will care as long as it is a meaningful experience (keep a journal to describe your experiences perhaps?) and it shows commitment (it sounds like you will be committing many hours to it).
 
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mrh125 said:
Wow, really? It's long because I wanted to clearly explain my own situation. It takes effort to write all of that up as well as read it. It's not just one sided. makes me really wonder what sort of adcom you really are if you can't take the time and patience to answer a very simple question from someone who obviously took a decent amount of effort to explain a very specific situation
Click to expand...

Sorry, I forgot the winking smiley face. I'm the sort of adcom who has been answering questions in my off hours at a rather mad pace, and your post just gave me the sort of instant headache that comes with EC-assessment fatigue. Clearly you have done a lot of EC's, probably more than most, and it looks like you have covered all your bases. Since we cannot change the past I'm not sure what sort of validation you are searching for.
 
stevvo111 said:
Thanks for taking questions:

1. how specific does your "why medicine" response have to be? I feel like sometimes my "why medicine" response is "because I've done a ton of things from a ton of different experiences and learned a ton from each of them". Do I need to have a definitive "because this and this"? And if so, any advice on how to condense a lot of experiences into small themes?

2. What is one thing applicants have done that make you say/think "wow, that is awesome".
Click to expand...

1. I don't need some particular level of specificity, but if your decision is build on multiple experiences then there has to be a cogent narrative beneath it. You just need to find a way to articulate that narrative. My advice for condensing chunks of life into digestible portions is to simply reflect on them and see what patterns emerge. Seriously, our brains are sometimes busiest when it seems like we are doing nothing. Just sit in a quiet room for 15-20 minutes a day and think about the how you got to this point.

2. Been in combat.
 
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chillaxbro said:
Jeez no need to be so snappy
I meant say a few so you don't have to choose just one
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Didn't mean to sound snappy. It's somewhat difficult to separate mistakes from pet peeves of mine, and like I have said before I am not a primary screener. I'm sure there is a whole world of error that never makes it to my desk.

At any rate, one huge pet peeve of mine often comes near the end of the interview, when I ask if the applicant has any questions for me and they say no. Really? None? Your entire future could be riding on this hour with me and you couldn't be bothered to bring a single bit of inquisitiveness to the encounter? When the tables were turned I was often guilty of the same thing, though, and had no idea how annoying it can be.
 
mrh125 said:
There's nothing constructive about your white knighting. white knight harder for the dude. if the dude had anything more to say he wouldn't need you to be his professional secretary brown-noser. i also hate to break it to you but kissing adcoms butts isn't going to get you into med school either.

real talk only reason you're posting that **** is because he's an adcom. My long post exudes effort because I took the time to post everything about my e.c.s. All your post exudes is the fact that you'd give that dude fellatio, no questions asked.
Click to expand...

Dude, you need to tone down the hate and adjust that nasty attitude.
 
Youknowgo said:
Has there been a time when the committee is evaluating an applicant after an interview, and they wonder why did they ever invite the applicant for an interview in the first place? (opinion changes after second look at application)???
Click to expand...

Oh yes, but we all understand that this is an imperfect process.
 
albinopenguin said:
2 questions - appreciate the responses!

1) how important do you think it is to submit an early application? I am a junior @ a quarter system school weighing submission prior to spring grades.

2) As a transfer from an avg. 4-yr to top 10 ranked 4-yr, took all my sciences before transferring and am pursuing a humanities major, is there any need to take upper level sciences like a CC->4 yr transfer would? carrying a 3.95+ sGPA
Click to expand...

1. Very important. Don't wait on grades if you don't have to. A late application won't kill you, but everyone feels looser with the invites and the acceptances early in the season.

2. Wow, tough question. For your particular situation, with a high sGPA and a degree from a top 10, I would not feel obligated to take an upper level science course at your new institution.
 
Do you see any bias against DOs out in the real world of medicine? (I just have to ask)
 
bluepeach9 said:
I have a couple of questions as well!

1. How would you view an applicant who got B+'s (and possibly a B-) in all the pre-reqs except physics? What if the applicant did well (A's) in several upper-division courses and science major (say, Neuroscience) courses?

2. You've mentioned that doing good junior and senior year can partially make up for poor freshmen and sophomore grades. However, how does doing well senior year matter if these grades aren't even included in your application...I mean, how would you see these grades in time? Were you suggesting this with the idea that the applicant would take a gap year? Or is it possible to send some sort of "grade update" letters?

Once again, thank you for helping us!
Click to expand...

1. It's not very comforting. The pre-reqs are essentially the basics. You don't need perfection, but most applicants have a mix of A's and B's. You are correct, this can be mitigated somewhat by better grades in upper division courses, although there is always the possibility that the applicant will cherry pick classes that sound more difficult than they really are.

2. If you have "poor" grades freshman and sophomore year you don't usually find yourself interviewing as a senior.
 
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mrh125 said:
the humility well was already drained because i spent all that time writing that post to get clarification about whether or not my ecs were okay to get a smug "tl;dr". If I could have cut out more details I would have.
Click to expand...

A simple list could have retained your detail and been much easier to read and evaluate.
 
mrh125 said:
the humility well was already drained because i spent all that time writing that post to get clarification about whether or not my ecs were okay to get a smug "tl;dr". If I could have cut out more details I would have.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you will learn some lessons from this encounter.

1. Effort does not always equal quality.
2. Being succinct and clear is an important skill, especially when you are talking/writing to someone whose time is valuable.
3. Paragraphs and bullet points are a reader's best friend.
 
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mrh125 said:
There's nothing constructive about your white knighting. white knight harder for the dude. if the dude had anything more to say he wouldn't need you to be his professional secretary brown-noser. i also hate to break it to you but kissing adcoms butts isn't going to get you into med school either.

real talk only reason you're posting that **** is because he's an adcom. My long post exudes effort because I took the time to post everything about my e.c.s. All your post exudes is the fact that you'd give that dude fellatio, no questions asked.
Click to expand...

I'll repeat exactly what I said:

Aerus said:
Concision is a huge component in good writing. A giant wall of text of grammar errors and irrelevant details is not something anyone wants to read.
Click to expand...

There's nothing kiss-assy about that. I did not even allude to Hushcom in this post at all. I think you became incredibly defensive when I gave you feedback on your post. Constructive criticism is criticism that will help you become better.

-An example of nonconstructive criticism would be "Your post was terrible."
-An example of kissing up in order to get into med school would be "OP is the coolest person in the world. Blah blah blah. Oh btw, here's my real name, school, and address. Plz accept me into med school."

I had no incentive to post other than to inform you why you got that type of response. If you didn't notice, I did not post in the first 6 pages of this thread. I'll get into med school on my own merits, thank you very much. There's no need for rudeness and the insults were uncalled for.
 
hushcom said:
1. It's not very comforting. The pre-reqs are essentially the basics. You don't need perfection, but most applicants have a mix of A's and B's. You are correct, this can be mitigated somewhat by better grades in upper division courses, although there is always the possibility that the applicant will cherry pick classes that sound more difficult than they really are.

2. If you have "poor" grades freshman and sophomore year you don't usually find yourself interviewing as a senior.
Click to expand...

@hushcom 1. Oh great. Now this really scares me 🙁 To keep it short, how bad does this combination look?

B+'s in Bio 1 and 2
B+ Gen. Chem. 1 Lec/Lab
B-/A- in Gen. Chem. 2 Lec/Lab
B+/B+ Organic Chem. 1 Lec/Lab
A/B+ Organic Chem 2 Lec/Lab
A/A Physics 1 Lec/Lab
A/A Physics 2 Lec/Lab

Will this automatically deny me an interview at top 10-20 schools? Do you think I would need to retake these through a post-bacc?

2. Also, what if the upper-division courses are Genetics, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Human Anat/Physiology? Could those come off sounding cherry-picked?

I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but I really want to know if I can still prove to adcoms that I can handle medical school!
 
bluepeach9 said:
@hushcom 1. Oh great. Now this really scares me 🙁 To keep it short, how bad does this combination look?

B+'s in Bio 1 and 2
B+ Gen. Chem. 1 Lec/Lab
B-/A- in Gen. Chem. 2 Lec/Lab
B+/B+ Organic Chem. 1 Lec/Lab
A/B+ Organic Chem 2 Lec/Lab
A/A Physics 1 Lec/Lab
A/A Physics 2 Lec/Lab

Will this automatically deny me an interview at top 10-20 schools? Do you think I would need to retake these through a post-bacc?

2. Also, what if the upper-division courses are Genetics, Biochemistry, Microbiology, Human Anat/Physiology? Could those come off sounding cherry-picked?

I'm sorry for asking so many questions, but I really want to know if I can still prove to adcoms that I can handle medical school!
Click to expand...

1. Your initial post had me thinking Bio B-/B, Gen Chem B-/B, Organic B-/B, Physics A/A. But it looks like you got A's/A-'s in both Gen Chem and Organic. That's better.

Will it "deny you an interview" at a top 10-20 school? I have no idea. Based on your final metrics you should just break out the MSAR, apply broadly to a range of schools, and hope that one or more of them makes you an offer. End of chapter.

2. Those are solid classes, go with them.
 
hushcom said:
I pay attention to major because it may tell me something about the applicant. Also, our goal is to choose people who we think will make good physicians, not to choose people who won't have a hard time in med school.
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This is interesting for me personally because when I interviewed at a particular school I had the least impressive sounding major (psychology), but I also have great grades in all of my pre-reqs and upper level bio classes. Would you hold my major against me?

Secondly, if you came across a re-applicant that was accepted to a school in their first cycle, but they decided that that school was a bad match for them for whatever reason, would you hold that against them? Does it look better if they withdraw before hearing whether they are accepted/waitlisted/denied from said school?
 
Do you view 3 year graduates (used AP credits to "skip" first year) any differently than a traditional 4 year graduate as long as they have a pretty well rounded application?
 
My original MCAT was a 26 (8/10/8) and I just got my retake scores back and hit the 30 but with super unbalanced subscores (6/13/11)...so what now? Did that 6 PS kill me from MD admissions? If so, I would be alright with DO but just thinking strategically about where I should focus on applying so as not to waste money.

Obviously all this under the consideration that GPA (3.8 s/c) and extracurriculars are fine.
 
TREDWISE said:
This is interesting for me personally because when I interviewed at a particular school I had the least impressive sounding major (psychology), but I also have great grades in all of my pre-reqs and upper level bio classes. Would you hold my major against me?
Click to expand...

Not at all, if anything I would explore why you chose psychology and see how that choice has shaped you.

TREDWISE said:
Secondly, if you came across a re-applicant that was accepted to a school in their first cycle, but they decided that that school was a bad match for them for whatever reason, would you hold that against them? Does it look better if they withdraw before hearing whether they are accepted/waitlisted/denied from said school?
Click to expand...

If the reason had to do with family issues, such as not wanting to move away from a sick parent or the consideration of a spouse's career, then I can see turning down an acceptance and reapplying. If the reason has to do with perceived lack of fit with the school in question then yes, I would most likely hold that against you.
 
andreamx said:
Do you view 3 year graduates (used AP credits to "skip" first year) any differently than a traditional 4 year graduate as long as they have a pretty well rounded application?
Click to expand...

An AP-heavy 3-year grad would naturally have less time to mature and gain life experiences. In that regard it could be a drawback. On the other hand some folks really are just mature beyond their years. It would depend on the person, but offhand I see no inherent virtue to finishing college early.

Well, perhaps if your college is really, really, expensive.
 
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hev said:
My original MCAT was a 26 (8/10/8) and I just got my retake scores back and hit the 30 but with super unbalanced subscores (6/13/11)...so what now? Did that 6 PS kill me from MD admissions? If so, I would be alright with DO but just thinking strategically about where I should focus on applying so as not to waste money.

Obviously all this under the consideration that GPA (3.8 s/c) and extracurriculars are fine.
Click to expand...

With two MCAT scores I would personally average them to a 7 and consider you borderline. The good news is that your total score is good and your GPA is solid. I wouldn't let it hold you back from applying.
 
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