Another case of Chiropractors overstepping their bounds

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DrWookie said:
Wow that was quite convincing.

I think even on April Fools Day I still probably wouldn't think it was fake.
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Thanks! My research requires me to sit still for long periods of time and stare at insects running around. I've been working on this in my head for a while 😀
 
silas2642 said:
Who's to say it wasn't Panda himself?
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Look, the story in the first post sounds stupid and yet I have had several patients with serious life-threatening conditions who were being treated by chiropractors until they nearly died and showed up at the Emergency Department after their relatives became concerned. One had a pulmonary embolism that the Chiropractor had diagnosed as asthma and was treating with rib manipulation and another had a genuine heart attack and was having his spine cracked for "stomach pains."

Chiropractors are mostly idiots and the ones who aren't are sharp operators running a pretty good scam.
 
melanoleuca said:
Look, the story in the first post sounds stupid and yet I have had several patients with serious life-threatening conditions who were being treated by chiropractors until they nearly died and showed up at the Emergency Department after their relatives became concerned. One had a pulmonary embolism that the Chiropractor had diagnosed as asthma and was treating with rib manipulation and another had a genuine heart attack and was having his spine cracked for "stomach pains."

Chiropractors are mostly idiots and the ones who aren't are sharp operators running a pretty good scam.
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Chiropractors aren't idiots ... they are just another example of midlevels trying to operate as primary care physicians and the huge danger that comes with letting lesser trained people act as primary providers. If you need an adjustment (and believe it does anything) go see a chiropractor. However, for the love of God, if you have issues that don't relate to your back ... go see an MD/DO. It should be criminal for chiros to advertise themselves as PCPs ... they just aren't trained to do so.
 
JaggerPlate said:
Chiropractors aren't idiots ... they are just another example of midlevels trying to operate as primary care physicians and the huge danger that comes with letting lesser trained people act as primary providers.
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They may not be idiots relative to the population at large, but the depths of credulity needed to make a career out of woo-woo, well, it's stunning, really. "Chiropractors are idiots" just has something that "Chiropractors are stunningly credulous charlatans" lacks.
 
mmmcdowe said:
You guys caught me. This is an early April fools joke, because I knew you'd never fall for it if I posted it on April first. Hence Aprin/April 🙂. Sorry if this upsets anyone, I wasn't expecting people to take it this seriously. I guess it just shows you how sadly close this is to reality!

Happy early April fools!
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You should go to Ban-town, USA for this. Maybe I just don't get the joke, but why did you waste time making up a fake chiro abuse story? Lame.
 
cpants said:
You should go to Ban-town, USA for this. Maybe I just don't get the joke, but why did you waste time making up a fake chiro abuse story? Lame.
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Well I guess that I'm lucky that you aren't a mod 🙂. I suppose you could define this as a trolling, but I did own up to it...
 
mmmcdowe said:
Well I guess that I'm lucky that you aren't a mod 🙂. I suppose you could define this as a trolling, but I did own up to it...
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OMG!!!! TROLL, TROLL, TROOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!


:troll:
 
JaggerPlate said:
Chiropractors aren't idiots ... they are just another example of midlevels trying to operate as primary care physicians and the huge danger that comes with letting lesser trained people act as primary providers. If you need an adjustment (and believe it does anything) go see a chiropractor. However, for the love of God, if you have issues that don't relate to your back ... go see an MD/DO. It should be criminal for chiros to advertise themselves as PCPs ... they just aren't trained to do so.
Click to expand...

Chiropractors are not, repeat not, midlevel providers in any way, shape, or form. Physician Assistants, for example, who are midlevel providers receive legitimate medical training and know enough to both put together a differential diagnosis and (in theory) refer to a higher level of care for things about which they know little or nothing. Chiropractors are not only trained to a very low standard as befits the low standards required to matriculate into Chiropractic Schools (which are, themselves, largely federal student aid processing mills) but if they are trained in differential diagnosis, it includes mostly bogus pathology based on their thoroughly disproven and completely ridiculous understanding of medicine to which they apply their equally ridiculous principle treatment modality.

A chiropractor is singularly unqualified to provide Emergency Care, Primary Care, or any other kind of medical care you care to name. He would be no more useful at the scene of an accident than any other reasonably concerned citizen with basic common sense...except the idea that he is a real doctor may go to his head.
 
I almost bit. Many pre-med panties were in a twist because of your genius, mmmcdowe. I wish to extend to you one internet and a hearty handshake. Congratulations, and lets hope the mods don't take themselves as seriously as cpants. By the way, I don't mean to thread-jack but Ron Paul? Honestly? Being a Ron Paul internet fellater is akin to a college freshman with a room full of Che Guevara merchandise. Lame...
 
BigBeefNCheddar said:
I almost bit. Many pre-med panties were in a twist because of your genius, mmmcdowe. I wish to extend to you one internet and a hearty handshake. Congratulations, and lets hope the mods don't take themselves as seriously as cpants. By the way, I don't mean to thread-jack but Ron Paul? Honestly? Being a Ron Paul internet fellater is akin to a college freshman with a room full of Che Guevara merchandise. Lame...
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Your digression may do the trick, we'll see.
 
devilpup said:
what possible reasons might there be for rotating an unconcious patient with possible spinal damage when administering CPR?
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Rotating on the stomach I have never heard of. But you rotate someone onto their side if they are puking all over themselves and obstructing the airway. ABC = airway breathing circulation. You never want to move someone without maintaining C-Spine on them just incase.
 
I have been reading this for a while and what is amazing is that most seem to ignore the reason why the doctor got arrested....he friggin slugged another person ASSAULT!

It doesn't matter who was right and who was wrong or who is more qualified. You learn as a 5 year old not that hitting someone is not the best way to solve an issue. The MD was an idiot and if he believed he was right, he couldve asked the responding police officer on scene to remove the DC because he threatening the welfare of the patient. The P.O wouldve done this without question...unless the MD was a jerk. The WRONG thing to do was slug someone who you are arguing with.

You assault someone youre gonna get arrested. At this point, it makes the MD look like an idiot, whether or not he was right.

Also, this is a news report. Anyone who has ever had an encounter with a reporter knows that they can easily misuse words and it changes the entire meaning of the article. Who knows what they were actually talking about. The DC could have suggested a log roll, which is completely reasonable in the protocol I follow as an EMT for 4 years. The spin is not compromised when C-Spine is stabilized and the patient is log rolled. In this report, the writer says "rotated". You don't really know what this means.

Read a bit more carefully everyone and lets try not to jump to conclusions based on the divine light that we all believe shines on every MD...

Also want to add that as an MD this guy should have been able to control his emotions in a stressful situation. By letting his emotions take over, his ability as a doctor somewhat frightens me. Think about it, if the two just argued for 3 minutes longer or so, then paramedics would have arrived and they would have just taken over. No harm, no foul.

A classic example of too many people with overlapping knowledge trying to do the same damn thing. It is bound to get interesting.
 
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mmmcdowe said:
You guys caught me. This is an early April fools joke, because I knew you'd never fall for it if I posted it on April first. Hence Aprin/April 🙂. Sorry if this upsets anyone, I wasn't expecting people to take it this seriously. I guess it just shows you how sadly close this is to reality!

Happy early April fools!
Click to expand...

This is seriously the worst april fools joke I can think of. It's lame even by SDN standards.

And almost two weeks prior to April 1st? This doesn't seem like a joke at all. This seems like someone wanted to make up a story only to stir up the ubiquitous SDN controversy of MDs prestige being diminished by other (legitmate or not) health care professionals.

Now I'll hate chiropractors for the rest of my life and it's all your fault.
 
Yes, the [real] doctor flat-out assaulted the man, but it wasn't like he had zero grounds for the beat down. Clearly the doctor was convinced that he had an ethical obligation to protect the injured person from serious harm that very well could have resulted from the chiro turning him over (which seems to be the case), an intent that really had no justification. The doctor would not have waited for the paramedics to come if the chiro was going to turn the guy over at that moment. But we really don't know who did or said what.

Although hitting the doctor is assault, I consider it more of a "restraining" measure - extreme, yes, but protective nonetheless.

Also, what was the basis for the chiro's assumption that it was a battle of egos? The quote from the article seems so out of the blue. There seems to be an insecurity issue here.
 
melanoleuca said:
Chiropractors are not, repeat not, midlevel providers in any way, shape, or form. Physician Assistants, for example, who are midlevel providers receive legitimate medical training and know enough to both put together a differential diagnosis and (in theory) refer to a higher level of care for things about which they know little or nothing. Chiropractors are not only trained to a very low standard as befits the low standards required to matriculate into Chiropractic Schools (which are, themselves, largely federal student aid processing mills) but if they are trained in differential diagnosis, it includes mostly bogus pathology based on their thoroughly disproven and completely ridiculous understanding of medicine to which they apply their equally ridiculous principle treatment modality.

A chiropractor is singularly unqualified to provide Emergency Care, Primary Care, or any other kind of medical care you care to name. He would be no more useful at the scene of an accident than any other reasonably concerned citizen with basic common sense...except the idea that he is a real doctor may go to his head.
Click to expand...

Bad choice of words on my part. I'm fairly certain were on the same page though.
 
singularity2012 said:
Yes, the [real] doctor flat-out assaulted the man, but it wasn't like he had zero grounds for the beat down. Clearly the doctor was convinced that he had an ethical obligation to protect the injured person from serious harm that very well could have resulted from the chiro turning him over (which seems to be the case), an intent that really had no justification. The doctor would not have waited for the paramedics to come if the chiro was going to turn the guy over at that moment. But we really don't know who did or said what.

Although hitting the doctor is assault, I consider it more of a "restraining" measure - extreme, yes, but protective nonetheless.

Also, what was the basis for the chiro's assumption that it was a battle of egos? The quote from the article seems so out of the blue. There seems to be an insecurity issue here.
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At least this thread tells us who reads an entire thread before posting.
 
ngkats said:
This is seriously the worst april fools joke I can think of. It's lame even by SDN standards.

And almost two weeks prior to April 1st? This doesn't seem like a joke at all. This seems like someone wanted to make up a story only to stir up the ubiquitous SDN controversy of MDs prestige being diminished by other (legitmate or not) health care professionals.

Now I'll hate chiropractors for the rest of my life and it's all your fault.
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you're just mad because you didn't think of it first. i think this is an indication of a neurotic pre-med student....
 
atomi said:
ad hominem. you just hate him because he was an internet sensation.
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Quite the opposite. I hate him because his foreign and domestic policies are imbicilic and his concept of money is archane and would be catastrophic if implemented. He is an internet sensation because the internet hive-mind is an aggregate of millions of 17 year-olds who don't know what the hell they're talking about.
 
The part about the chiro suing the MD for malpractice on behalf of the patient was suspicious. The chiro wouldn't be allowed to do that. Only lawyers can file suits and represent someone else in court. Sadly, I bought the story nevertheless.
Although the story wasn't particularly good as a joke, it did raise some interesting issues and discussion. The OP should have been upfront, though, and posted it as a hypothetical scenario.
 
cute thread....I was like, okay, no one is paying attention to the fact that the doc hit, as in assulted, the chiro. :laugh:
 
This is awesome. You should write for Fox News! You'd fit right in...

Anyway, I think this is the first case of legal trolling I've seen. I'm a fan.👍
 
Lol.

Wow.

I can't believe how full of themselves pre-med/med students are!!!
 
Arjunsi said:
It is not prejudice to dismiss a chiropractor as unqualified to respond to a medical emergency, because in fact a chiropractor is not qualified to respond to a medical emergency. Chiropractors receive no training in emergency medicine and are not licensed to provide emergency medical care, where MD's have completed standardized emergency medicine courses and clinical programs regardless of their current medical specialty.

Maybe this individual chiropractor has taken a first responder course, but this would not make what the MD did less appropriate. A MD is at the pinnacle of medical care, and unless this chiropractor was also a doctor of emergency medicine, the MD had a moral obligation to provide the treatment he deemed appropriate. For a chiropractor to attempt to provide medical treatment based on the delusion that his scope of treatment is equal to a MD's is not just dangerous, its illegal.
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It has actually stunned me at the sheer incompetence of the chiropractor in this situation. Not moving a person when they're injured and condition is unknown is borderline common sense. I have very limited experience in medicine and even I know that. To read that an apparently licensed health professional would suggest such a thing is simply scary.

It reminds me of a time a PA checked me for a hernia and didn't ask me to turn my head before I coughed. Even once I coughed right in his face he didn't ask me to turn my head. It's that level of incompetence.

The chiropractor should have his licensed revoked and the doctor should have all charges cleared.

EDIT: Whoops, it was April Fools. Got me. Everything I said still applies though, but lets just assume it's a hypothetical situation.
 
Speaking of April Fools, it would be nice if med schools got into the spirit and sent applicants e-mail updates on April Fools, in the following order of decreasing cringeworthiness:

1) Waitlisted: "Congratulations, after careful consideration you have now been accepted from the waitlist." (scroll down) "Just kidding!! APRIL FOOLS! xoxo, Med School Admissions"
2) Waitlisted: "While you remain on the wait list, you are now at the top third of it. Please send additional photos for the committee to help judge your merits at our next meeting, preferably glamour shots from the mall."
3) Send an e-mail update to all candidates, rescinding acceptances, removing waitlisters from waitlist and rejecting everyone else. Blame it on a water main break and say the med school is permanently closing.
4) Previously rejected: "A mistake has been made with your file, and the decision to decline to offer admission to you has been rescinded. Congratulations and welcome to ________ School of Medicine." (scroll down) "APRIL FOOLS! You're still rejected! LOL"

Add your own. 😀
 
akinetopsia said:
Speaking of April Fools, it would be nice if med schools got into the spirit and sent applicants e-mail updates on April Fools, in the following order of decreasing cringeworthiness:

1) Waitlisted: "Congratulations, after careful consideration you have now been accepted from the waitlist." (scroll down) "Just kidding!! APRIL FOOLS! xoxo, Med School Admissions"
2) Waitlisted: "While you remain on the wait list, you are now at the top third of it. Please send additional photos for the committee to help judge your merits at our next meeting, preferably glamour shots from the mall."
3) Send an e-mail update to all candidates, rescinding acceptances, removing waitlisters from waitlist and rejecting everyone else. Blame it on a water main break and say the med school is permanently closing.
4) Previously rejected: "A mistake has been made with your file, and the decision to decline to offer admission to you has been rescinded. Congratulations and welcome to ________ School of Medicine." (scroll down) "APRIL FOOLS! You're still rejected! LOL"

Add your own. 😀
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LOL! :laugh:

And to the OP: Pretty convincing first post considering all the responses!
 
marble30 said:
LOL! :laugh:

And to the OP: Pretty convincing first post considering all the responses!
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It was well written, but the story was somehow weird. I think the last paragraph didn't make sense.
 
The original story was hilarious but the indignant responses really put the icing on the cake.

👍👍
 
I can't believe this got me on April Fool's day a WHOLE YEAR after it was posted 🙁
 
singularity2012 said:
Yes, the [real] doctor flat-out assaulted the man, but it wasn't like he had zero grounds for the beat down. Clearly the doctor was convinced that he had an ethical obligation to protect the injured person from serious harm that very well could have resulted from the chiro turning him over (which seems to be the case), an intent that really had no justification. The doctor would not have waited for the paramedics to come if the chiro was going to turn the guy over at that moment. But we really don't know who did or said what.

Although hitting the doctor is assault, I consider it more of a "restraining" measure - extreme, yes, but protective nonetheless.

Also, what was the basis for the chiro's assumption that it was a battle of egos? The quote from the article seems so out of the blue. There seems to be an insecurity issue here.
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Good point. Let's wait for the entire story to come out so we can actually read the whole thing before commenting.
 
This is old...

VanBrown said:
Just to play devils advocate...

Who is to say that the chiropractor wasn't the person there with the most relevant experience? Having an MD doesn't make you an expert in everything. The article didn't say what the MDs specialty was. The chiropractor probably has tons of experience dealing with spinal issues which the MD may not and would then be the person best suited to determine whether moving the patient would be beneficial or harmful.


And say what you will about chiropractors but those dudes can make like $300k a year and work 4 days a week...
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But just for the record, median chiropractor pay is $67,200 annually.

cajunchrisbu said:
all chiropractors should be struck in the face on sight.

that is all.
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And also for the record, this is true.
 
devilpup said:
a simple American red cross CPR/First Aid/AED course will help you understand why you might want to ensure spinal stabilization in an unconcious person involved in a vehicle accident.
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When you're administering CPR, spinal precautions are secondary, for future reference.

Edit: Didn't realize how old this was
 
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