another columbia question...

[laur83]

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hi all, im new to this forum, but have read all the previous postings about the columbia program. i am scheduled to start this program in january, and due to the high number of negative responses, im now seriously considering not going, and applying instead to bryn mawr, etc. but i know there are many opinions out there, and I certainly want to visit columbia in the meantime.

but here is my question: i am concerned about being young (22) and moving to nyc by myself without knowing anyone (im from california). I got the impression that most columbia post-baccers were older, married, etc, or already had roots in ny. i am looking for a closeknit community where i can find friends my age, and im not sure columbia offers this, and think i might be better at a smaller place with a more established community. however, the lure of nyc is naturally strong to one who has never lived there. sooo, for anyone who has done the program, did you find you were able to become part of the columbia community, make friends, etc? or if you went to another program where you found the community (especially for young recent grads) was particularly strong, id love to hear about it.

also, i am a very happy and laid-back girl, and im seriously worried about the negativity coming from the other columbia posts. i know this is subjective, but did columbia really make you an unhappy person (as opposed to you already being a little bitter about taking science classes, being out of your element, etc)? there are competitive people everywhere and im pretty good at just ignoring them, but it seems like others arent able to do that at columbia. i wonder if the cali atmosphere has spoiled me, and i too will become a hater if i move to ny... 🙁

anyway, i just want to go where ill be happiest, so any help is appreciated, thanks so much, and good luck to everyone!

 

[Chrissy]

i was born and raised in Ny so i dont mind giving you my off the cuff opinion about your situation....i think it will depend on your personality i mean thousands and thousands of people move to the city all the time many are happy many are not. In general, NY is a tough city.....people are always in a rush and typically are not friendly to strangers....my advice would be to use columbia as much as you can (housing advice, clubs, peers) and if you are second guessing going in the first place maybe come out here and spend some time on campus.....i dont know what your situation is, but if you have the time take a lil vacation to new york and speak to someone about sitting in on a few classes....that way, you will also be able to talk to students and get a feel for things. Also, while i'm not necessarily suggesting you do this....you could always try to defer your start date while you make a more informed decision if you are feeling unsure....and worst case scenario you dont go and could always reapply.

 

[allisonbk]

hi all, im new to this forum, but have read all the previous postings about the columbia program. i am scheduled to start this program in january, and due to the high number of negative responses, im now seriously considering not going, and applying instead to bryn mawr, etc. but i know there are many opinions out there, and I certainly want to visit columbia in the meantime.

but here is my question: i am concerned about being young (22) and moving to nyc by myself without knowing anyone (im from california). I got the impression that most columbia post-baccers were older, married, etc, or already had roots in ny. i am looking for a closeknit community where i can find friends my age, and im not sure columbia offers this, and think i might be better at a smaller place with a more established community. however, the lure of nyc is naturally strong to one who has never lived there. sooo, for anyone who has done the program, did you find you were able to become part of the columbia community, make friends, etc? or if you went to another program where you found the community (especially for young recent grads) was particularly strong, id love to hear about it.

also, i am a very happy and laid-back girl, and im seriously worried about the negativity coming from the other columbia posts. i know this is subjective, but did columbia really make you an unhappy person (as opposed to you already being a little bitter about taking science classes, being out of your element, etc)? there are competitive people everywhere and im pretty good at just ignoring them, but it seems like others arent able to do that at columbia. i wonder if the cali atmosphere has spoiled me, and i too will become a hater if i move to ny... 🙁

anyway, i just want to go where ill be happiest, so any help is appreciated, thanks so much, and good luck to everyone!

You may want to consider NYU post-bacc. I just finished the program, and I was in classes with post-baccs as well as undergrads, so you will meet people of all ages. Also, my post-bacc group was mostly in the 22-25 age range. You can PM me if you have specific questions.

 

[UCIke]

I was in the same position as you not too long ago, so I wanted to take the time to respond to your post (btw, I'm also from Cali and I attended UC Irvine for my undergrad).
Not too long ago, I was also here on studentdoctor.net asking a ton of questions regarding Columbia's program. In short, I felt the negatives that I learned were the student to faculty ratio is huge (similar to all our UC's back in Cali), you are mixed in with the undergrad population, the cost of living is really high, and apparently some people here expressed that they felt as though they were just another "number" to Columbia. I also had many fellow SDNers tell me flat out that they were just displeased by Columbia. But I also had some people tell me that Columbia was great, but this was far and few.
In my experience, my views on Columbia began to become negative when I applied and had to resend my transcripts 3 different times because the office personel told me they didn't recieve them (I was able to double check with my sending institution if the transcripts were properly sent out and everytime we could see that the mistake was in the reciever side). I began to get really frustrated with them, since this was begining to become expensive (each transcript would cost me about $20 for rush delivered and needless to say, a complete waste of time). Also, the e-mails I sent them were sometimes not answered for 3-4 weeks which left me wondering how I would be treated once I was in their program.
In the end, I chose to attend Drexel Med's PMED program in Philadelphia, PA (this is the program for those that haven't taken the pre-reqs for med school, which are physics, g-& o-chem, bio; they also have IMS, DPMS programs for those that have satisfied the pre-reqs and they boast a extremely high success rate of getting you into med schools). I chose this program because it has linkage agreements with three schools: UMDNJ, Drexel Med, and New England's DO school (which I don't have the name on-hand). The positives of this program are that they have purposely kept the class sizes really small, ALL of your fellow classmates are postbacs like yourself, and the professors are great (most are from UPenn, which is a great Ivy League institution ). I have to remention that the class sizes are small, because that allows for so much individual attention when you have questions or problems. The professors I've had are extremely good teachers and gear their material towards preparing you for the MCAT. Also, since your classmates are postbacs just like yourself, this makes for a more cohesive atmosphere. Furthermore, we are usually not graded on a curve, so everyone helps each other out and many have even gone out for drinks after exams and parties on weekends. Finally, the negatives of Drexel's program are that the linkages are not as numberous as Columbia's and there is not as much research going on in the school (i think).
I also looked into Byrn Mawr before I decided on Drexel. Byrn Mawr is an all-women's college located about 20-30 mins outside of Philadelphia, but it's postbacc program is open to both sexes. The city it's located in has much more of a small town feel with a lot of trees, grass, flowers (check out the show "Viva La Bam" on MTV to get an idea of this, because the town they film in is called West Chester and is only 15 mins from Byrn Mawr in Pennsylvania). They seem to be a great school from what I heard, although it is expensive. Also, they seem to have a GREAT reputation on getting you into any of the medical profession schools.
Personally, I love Philly. After living 5 mins from the beach for 20 years I needed a change to urban scenery. My rent for a studio is a thousand (includes utility) which is on the high end, but you can easily find rooms in houses with other students for $360-$400 and up.
Also, the people in Philly are extremely friendly; almost everyone hold doors open for you and will give you directions when asked. The only time people are rushed is in the early morning (getting to work). There are at least 80 colleges and universities in Pennsylavania and most seem to be in or around the Philadelphia area (St. Joseph's, Villinova, Drexel, UPenn, etc.); sometimes Philly feels like one big college town because there are so many students.
There is also a lot of culture in the city (especially by Drexel Med in the Center City area) with its plethora of world-class museums. Like every urban center, there IS crime, poverty, and strange smells. From what I heard, it's not as clean as Boston, but I didn't find it bad at all. Everyone here says Philly is basically like a mini-NYC.
I hope I helped you in anyway. It wasn't too long ago I was in your shoes, so I wish you the best of luck in both your choice of postbaccs and pursuit of your goal. Any more questions? Just PM me...

 

[Mr. Adventure]

I was in the same position as you not too long ago, so I wanted to take the time to respond to your post (btw, I'm also from Cali and I attended UC Irvine for my undergrad).
Not too long ago, I was also here on studentdoctor.net asking a ton of questions regarding Columbia's program. In short, I felt the negatives that I learned were the student to faculty ratio is huge (similar to all our UC's back in Cali), you are mixed in with the undergrad population, the cost of living is really high, and apparently some people here expressed that they felt as though they were just another "number" to Columbia. I also had many fellow SDNers tell me flat out that they were just displeased by Columbia. But I also had some people tell me that Columbia was great, but this was far and few.
In my experience, my views on Columbia began to become negative when I applied and had to resend my transcripts 3 different times because the office personel told me they didn't recieve them (I was able to double check with my sending institution if the transcripts were properly sent out and everytime we could see that the mistake was in the reciever side). I began to get really frustrated with them, since this was begining to become expensive (each transcript would cost me about $20 for rush delivered and needless to say, a complete waste of time). Also, the e-mails I sent them were sometimes not answered for 3-4 weeks which left me wondering how I would be treated once I was in their program.
In the end, I chose to attend Drexel Med's PMED program in Philadelphia, PA (this is the program for those that haven't taken the pre-reqs for med school, which are physics, g-& o-chem, bio; they also have IMS, DPMS programs for those that have satisfied the pre-reqs and they boast a extremely high success rate of getting you into med schools). I chose this program because it has linkage agreements with three schools: UMDNJ, Drexel Med, and New England's DO school (which I don't have the name on-hand). The positives of this program are that they have purposely kept the class sizes really small, ALL of your fellow classmates are postbacs like yourself, and the professors are great (most are from UPenn, which is a great Ivy League institution ). I have to remention that the class sizes are small, because that allows for so much individual attention when you have questions or problems. The professors I've had are extremely good teachers and gear their material towards preparing you for the MCAT. Also, since your classmates are postbacs just like yourself, this makes for a more cohesive atmosphere. Furthermore, we are usually not graded on a curve, so everyone helps each other out and many have even gone out for drinks after exams and parties on weekends. Finally, the negatives of Drexel's program are that the linkages are not as numberous as Columbia's and there is not as much research going on in the school (i think).
I also looked into Byrn Mawr before I decided on Drexel. Byrn Mawr is an all-women's college located about 20-30 mins outside of Philadelphia, but it's postbacc program is open to both sexes. The city it's located in has much more of a small town feel with a lot of trees, grass, flowers (check out the show "Viva La Bam" on MTV to get an idea of this, because the town they film in is called West Chester and is only 15 mins from Byrn Mawr in Pennsylvania). They seem to be a great school from what I heard, although it is expensive. Also, they seem to have a GREAT reputation on getting you into any of the medical profession schools.
Personally, I love Philly. After living 5 mins from the beach for 20 years I needed a change to urban scenery. My rent for a studio is a thousand (includes utility) which is on the high end, but you can easily find rooms in houses with other students for $360-$400 and up.
Also, the people in Philly are extremely friendly; almost everyone hold doors open for you and will give you directions when asked. The only time people are rushed is in the early morning (getting to work). There are at least 80 colleges and universities in Pennsylavania and most seem to be in or around the Philadelphia area (St. Joseph's, Villinova, Drexel, UPenn, etc.); sometimes Philly feels like one big college town because there are so many students.
There is also a lot of culture in the city (especially by Drexel Med in the Center City area) with its plethora of world-class museums. Like every urban center, there IS crime, poverty, and strange smells. From what I heard, it's not as clean as Boston, but I didn't find it bad at all. Everyone here says Philly is basically like a mini-NYC.
I hope I helped you in anyway. It wasn't too long ago I was in your shoes, so I wish you the best of luck in both your choice of postbaccs and pursuit of your goal. Any more questions? Just PM me...

Good info! I think a good rule of thumb is if you're a superstar and don't need much help, then go to the big name Universities where you're just another face in the crowd. If you're like me, though, and need all the help you can get, then it's best to probably stick with a smaller program...

 

[laur83]

I was in the same position as you not too long ago, so I wanted to take the time to respond to your post (btw, I'm also from Cali and I attended UC Irvine for my undergrad).
Not too long ago, I was also here on studentdoctor.net asking a ton of questions regarding Columbia's program. In short, I felt the negatives that I learned were the student to faculty ratio is huge (similar to all our UC's back in Cali), you are mixed in with the undergrad population, the cost of living is really high, and apparently some people here expressed that they felt as though they were just another "number" to Columbia. I also had many fellow SDNers tell me flat out that they were just displeased by Columbia. But I also had some people tell me that Columbia was great, but this was far and few.
In my experience, my views on Columbia began to become negative when I applied and had to resend my transcripts 3 different times because the office personel told me they didn't recieve them (I was able to double check with my sending institution if the transcripts were properly sent out and everytime we could see that the mistake was in the reciever side). I began to get really frustrated with them, since this was begining to become expensive (each transcript would cost me about $20 for rush delivered and needless to say, a complete waste of time). Also, the e-mails I sent them were sometimes not answered for 3-4 weeks which left me wondering how I would be treated once I was in their program.
In the end, I chose to attend Drexel Med's PMED program in Philadelphia, PA (this is the program for those that haven't taken the pre-reqs for med school, which are physics, g-& o-chem, bio; they also have IMS, DPMS programs for those that have satisfied the pre-reqs and they boast a extremely high success rate of getting you into med schools). I chose this program because it has linkage agreements with three schools: UMDNJ, Drexel Med, and New England's DO school (which I don't have the name on-hand). The positives of this program are that they have purposely kept the class sizes really small, ALL of your fellow classmates are postbacs like yourself, and the professors are great (most are from UPenn, which is a great Ivy League institution ). I have to remention that the class sizes are small, because that allows for so much individual attention when you have questions or problems. The professors I've had are extremely good teachers and gear their material towards preparing you for the MCAT. Also, since your classmates are postbacs just like yourself, this makes for a more cohesive atmosphere. Furthermore, we are usually not graded on a curve, so everyone helps each other out and many have even gone out for drinks after exams and parties on weekends. Finally, the negatives of Drexel's program are that the linkages are not as numberous as Columbia's and there is not as much research going on in the school (i think).
I also looked into Byrn Mawr before I decided on Drexel. Byrn Mawr is an all-women's college located about 20-30 mins outside of Philadelphia, but it's postbacc program is open to both sexes. The city it's located in has much more of a small town feel with a lot of trees, grass, flowers (check out the show "Viva La Bam" on MTV to get an idea of this, because the town they film in is called West Chester and is only 15 mins from Byrn Mawr in Pennsylvania). They seem to be a great school from what I heard, although it is expensive. Also, they seem to have a GREAT reputation on getting you into any of the medical profession schools.
Personally, I love Philly. After living 5 mins from the beach for 20 years I needed a change to urban scenery. My rent for a studio is a thousand (includes utility) which is on the high end, but you can easily find rooms in houses with other students for $360-$400 and up.
Also, the people in Philly are extremely friendly; almost everyone hold doors open for you and will give you directions when asked. The only time people are rushed is in the early morning (getting to work). There are at least 80 colleges and universities in Pennsylavania and most seem to be in or around the Philadelphia area (St. Joseph's, Villinova, Drexel, UPenn, etc.); sometimes Philly feels like one big college town because there are so many students.
There is also a lot of culture in the city (especially by Drexel Med in the Center City area) with its plethora of world-class museums. Like every urban center, there IS crime, poverty, and strange smells. From what I heard, it's not as clean as Boston, but I didn't find it bad at all. Everyone here says Philly is basically like a mini-NYC.
I hope I helped you in anyway. It wasn't too long ago I was in your shoes, so I wish you the best of luck in both your choice of postbaccs and pursuit of your goal. Any more questions? Just PM me...

Thanks SO much to everyone who took the time to respond to my post; I really appreciate your honest opinions. And thanks especially UCIke -- it's nice to know others were in my position. And especially nice to know that you managed just fine, changing your mind and all. While I'm still not sure what I'll end up doing, hearing your story has definitely made me feel a lot better about rethinking my goals and starting the app process all over again. So nice to get a sense of perspective -- thanks again to all. 🙂

 

[TheDervish]

Post-Bacc at Columbia, IMO is a big waste of time and money (this post consists of my opinions and observations, I am by no means an expert, but just an observer with opinions). Classes are quite large, and you're going to be integrated with the undergraduate students of Columbia, the vast majority of which look at the "post-baccs" with a great deal of disdain (along with anyone who admits they are in school of general studies). Everything is graded on a curve, and cheaters do exist. Consider yourself very fortunate if you get a lab T/A that speaks decent English.

Columbia will try to woo you with a high success rate for those who finish 2 years, but simultaneously will not divulge their high attrition rate of students who drop the post-bacc program either voluntarily or involuntarily.

Look into NYU or maybe Goucher post-bacc (my knowledge of Goucher is 2nd hand, so research!), or even make your own post-bacc program in an accessable 4 year university of your choice. It seems the best thing is to find a place with small classes where you actually learn something, as the vast majority of what you learn are truly building blocks for Medical school and beyond.

When it comes to Columbia University's post-bacc program, your large volumes of cash are best spent elsewhere, better yet, saved for the expenses of actual Medical School. Unless you really REALLY want that name, and the alleged application slots they allegedly provide, and are an EXTREMELY self-motivated student.

 

[Crake]

Ok, here's my take on Columbia.

I went there for a year. I was a B student. I left to pursue a second bachelor's degree at my state university. So that's my background.

I never got the impression that the undergrads didn't "like" postbaccs or anything like that. And the dig at the School of General Studies in a previous post is patently untrue--some of the best undergrads at Columbia are in GS. That said, it's still not a pleasant place. About 10% of the class is ruthless postbaccs (a possible reason for undergrad resentment, if such resentment exists). This 10% scoops up most of the A's in the class because the postbaccs are relentless gunners--every last one. The Columbia system, full of painful curves that drive down your grade, encourages this sort of backstabbing, non-collaborative atomosphere. It's hard to make A's, especially since you're competing against fellow postbaccs, some of whom have substantial experience in the hard sciences.

Columbia is expensive. I spent 30k to go to school for one year and live in NYC (in a rundown apartment at 1000/month). Many of the postbaccs are filthy rich, and they benefit from it substantially. For example, if you can afford to live in NYC for a summer or an extra semester, you can benefit from taking the pre-physics and pre-chemistry courses which will help you when you get to gen-chem and physics. of course, since it costs about 10k or so to live in NYC for a semester to take two classes, this option isn't open to you unless money isn't a factor, and it isn't for many of the postbaccs. You also have to remember that many of the postbaccs have masters degrees (some in related subjects) and they are going to be better students than you are--that's just a fact of life, especially if you're only 22 (I myself was a mere 22 when I started).

The benefits are the name and the fact that the postbacc office will forward you emails about excellent research/volunteer opportunities once you join the program. In fact, if you lived in NYC and could pay just to get on the list server, it would be worth the money and effort just to do that. I got to shadow in a busy urban ER for 70 hours, spent a full year doing research at Cornell (even getting to witness some surgeries), and spent a month in Central America on a medical mission with a team from school. These experiences were incredible and really helped build up my resume, as volunteering/research were places I was seriously lacking.

In the end though, I wouldn't go to Columbia again. It's not worth the money, it's painfully hard, you will study all the time or you will fail, living in NYC is not as great as it sounds (unless you are drowning in money, in which case, it might be pretty great), many other postbaccs are miserable, many professors are miserable, Chemlab is the most miserable experience you can ever imagine, TA's don't speak english, the subway floods on exam day and your screwed, Columbia floods every time it rains, the library is consistently packed on Tuesday nights....Columbia just sucks, that's about it. You may meet some great people and forge long-lasting friendships (I know I did) but you can do that anywhere, so don't bother flying halfway across the country to do it.

Go to Columbia if you'll only be happy going to P&S and you're willing to do absolutely anything, including selling your soul, to get there. If you'll be happy at NYMC, UC Irvine, Drexel, VCU, or any other midlevel non-ivy medschool, don't go to Columbia because you're taking on a ton of unecessary debt and distress.

 

[TheDervish]

Sounds accurate, Crake! Perhaps the CC students not liking SGS students or post-baccs is isolated, on a year to year basis, or a subtle undercurrent. Living close to the university is a must, unless you are adept at studying on public transportation (meh). Living in Westchester, Long Island, or New Jersey will make it close to impossible for housing people at CU to put you on a reasonable que for a flat. I knew people who deliberately got involved in relationships just to get on the couples' housing list just because it had a shorter que (then subsequently broke up once they got their flat free and clear).

 

[Crake]

yeah, it's really tough to find housing. The upper west side is expensive, so is morningside heights for the most part (Columbia drives up the price of housing in the neighborhood). I lived in Hell's Kitchen (W.47th) which wasn't too bad but required the subway everyday (approx. 30 mins each way + 4 blocks walk). I knew people who lived in Brooklyn that were miserable with the commute. Columbia is very inconveniently located in Manhattan to live in a borough and commute to.

Sounds accurate, Crake! Perhaps the CC students not liking SGS students or post-baccs is isolated, on a year to year basis, or a subtle undercurrent. Living close to the university is a must, unless you are adept at studying on public transportation (meh). Living in Westchester, Long Island, or New Jersey will make it close to impossible for housing people at CU to put you on a reasonable que for a flat. I knew people who deliberately got involved in relationships just to get on the couples' housing list just because it had a shorter que (then subsequently broke up once they got their flat free and clear).

 

[Aladdin Sane]

if you're doubting columbia, listen to yourself and apply elsewhere because columbia is a ****hole and after two years there, i have become a mean spirited bitter person because columbia grinds you down to a nub. it's a horrible program and if you don't receive committee support, the advisors wash their hands of you and won't help you out one bit.

i'm just like you, i'm easy going and columbia just wasn't the place for me. and it's not like these postbaccs really EARN their grades, some blow the TAs and most are coked out of their minds. i have always believed that students can either make or break a school and the people at columbia are so miserable, it's not worth it. you'll only hear positive things about the postbacc program from the tools that have no lives and are going into medicine for the MONEY, most of the good deserving people who would make truly awesome doctors generally are screwed by the system and it's incredibly sad. i saw it happen to a lot of good friends of mine in the program and it's a shame.

so the moral of the story is, RUN as far as you can away from columbia.

 

[TheSecret]

Wow, I wonder why I didn't find any of this stuff before I enrolled at Columbia...actually, I'm glad I didn't.

I'm in my first term in the postbacc program at Columbia, and have found none of the problems that anyone in the above posts have mentioned. There are several things you can do to avoid the kinds of experiences they are talking about, and I think the program may have instituted some changes that address the issues discussed.

The advisors are great...mine e-mails me every couple of weeks to see how I'm doing. They do have large caseloads, so make sure you start everything early with them, including tracking down recommendations and filing paperwork.

As far as the gunners and the curve - I'm in Honors Physics (with calculus) with a little over 40 students, and our prof sets the mean at an A- for the curve. For Chem, all of our grades are absolute, i.e. no curve at all. In both classes weekly quizzes make up a significant portion of the grade, so if you do your reading and your homework every week you basically have 35% of your grade as an A+. I have found absolutely no resentment from the undergrads - but then again, a very large percentage of each of my classes is postbacc.

This year's class I think is overwhelmingly the graduating class of 2004 - so most people are only one year out of undergrad, with many fresh out of school people as well. I am turning 30 next month after 2 career changes, and I definitely feel like "the old guy."

The class where this happy situation breaks down is Biology. There's only one prof that teaches it at Columbia, it's taught in a problem-based learning style, and the undergrads have successfully lobbied to have their curve separate from the postbaccs. The other evil is that other than physics, all of the labs are 3 credit, single semester courses that are extremely time consuming.

As far as living in NY, it can be pretty intimidating. You can definitely live cheaply in Manhattan, it just takes some work and some sacrifices. I live in Hamilton Heights, and I love my neighborhood - and you can easily get a share in the area for under $800 a month. It is not, however, going to be the same as living off Central Park North.

I'm in the program now, so if you have any questions, please feel free to PM me (Crake did the same for me, and I'm trying to keep the tradition alive 😉

 

[Aladdin Sane]

they have not issued any changes, if you're not what the advisors consider a "stellar applicant", they don't bother with you after the process is over. believe me, i worked very closely with the deans on the pma and most of the time they are just feeding you bullsh*t.

do you know when most people found out they weren't receiving committee support, at the actual ceremony when they opened up their envelopes expecting to see a certificate and instead found a photocopied piece of paper. very unprofessional.

give it time, by orgo/bio year that's generally when most become very jaded.

 

[mdforlife]

they have not issued any changes, if you're not what the advisors consider a "stellar applicant", they don't bother with you after the process is over. believe me, i worked very closely with the deans on the pma and most of the time they are just feeding you bullsh*t.

do you know when most people found out they weren't receiving committee support, at the actual ceremony when they opened up their envelopes expecting to see a certificate and instead found a photocopied piece of paper. very unprofessional.

give it time, by orgo/bio year that's generally when most become very jaded.

what is the criteria to be considered a stellar applicant by them? also, i heard that they rank all postbacs against each other in the committe letter? are pre-med gs undergrads ranked with the postbacs or separately?

 

[Aladdin Sane]

what is the criteria to be considered a stellar applicant by them? also, i heard that they rank all postbacs against each other in the committe letter? are pre-med gs undergrads ranked with the postbacs or separately?

at least above a 3.5 GPA, probably closer to 3.8, your typical arrogant gunner that will do anything for an A in a class.

and yes they rank you against other post baccs based on performance in the class like "john received a C in bio where 35% of the class received a B-" along those lines and they also rank you as a "superior, excellent, good, average and poor" candidate based solely on GPA. you're not ranked against GS students.

 

[mdforlife]

Aladdin I pmed you

 

[abcd1234]

Columbia's Post-bacc program is pure hell!!!! I expected to be studying non-stop and didn't exactly expect to coast thru orgo, physics, etc. but I felt there was a huge lack in support. I definitely became good friends with a couple of the other post-baccs, but most of the people were insanely intense. I realize that this is our "second chance" to do things right and failing is not an option, but you can still get an A AND be human-apparently they don't agree with that. Others seemed completely arrogant. Yes, there are several intelligent people in the program who have done great things in their lives, but no one there is god....although they seem to feel as if they are.

But I didn't go to the program to make friends, I went to get into med school. So at least the advisors had to be good right? WRONG!!! They really did screw over many people with the surprise of not writing a letter. Had they let people know earlier, other steps could have been taken. I did get a letter but was still very disappointed in my advisor. Everytime I went to to his office for advice, he never EVER shed any new light on the subject. Also, I had problems with my package being sent out incorrectly to many med schools. After working like a dog to complete secondaries early in the summer, it was very frustrating to have my application delayed due to the office's mistake - which they then tried to blame on me! (By the way, ALWAYS get what is discussed with your advisor in an email for proof later...sadly, I've needed to rely on this more than once). And the follow up by an advisor mentioned in another post was more or less true. Unfortunately, I would get questions on follow-ups on issues I had previously emailed my advisor 3 weeks earlier.

Moving to NYC is awesome though! I moved here (not for the post-bacc program) and love it. Its a super fun place to live, but it is very expensive. Someone wrote post-baccs were rich....I'm most definitely not one of them. But I enjoy the city nonetheless. Admittedly, I never really saw much of it when school was in session - I can tell you a great amount of detail on the libraries though.

Also, with all the griping, I have several interviews lined up and an acceptance (to a school I am strongly considering) under my belt. Could I have done this somewhere else for less money? Yeah, probably.

 

[Crake]

Columbia's Post-bacc program is pure hell!!!! I expected to be studying non-stop and didn't exactly expect to coast thru orgo, physics, etc. but I felt there was a huge lack in support. I definitely became good friends with a couple of the other post-baccs, but most of the people were insanely intense. I realize that this is our "second chance" to do things right and failing is not an option, but you can still get an A AND be human-apparently they don't agree with that. Others seemed completely arrogant. Yes, there are several intelligent people in the program who have done great things in their lives, but no one there is god....although they seem to feel as if they are.

But I didn't go to the program to make friends, I went to get into med school. So at least the advisors had to be good right? WRONG!!! They really did screw over many people with the surprise of not writing a letter. Had they let people know earlier, other steps could have been taken. I did get a letter but was still very disappointed in my advisor. Everytime I went to to his office for advice, he never EVER shed any new light on the subject. Also, I had problems with my package being sent out incorrectly to many med schools. After working like a dog to complete secondaries early in the summer, it was very frustrating to have my application delayed due to the office's mistake - which they then tried to blame on me! (By the way, ALWAYS get what is discussed with your advisor in an email for proof later...sadly, I've needed to rely on this more than once). And the follow up by an advisor mentioned in another post was more or less true. Unfortunately, I would get questions on follow-ups on issues I had previously emailed my advisor 3 weeks earlier.

Moving to NYC is awesome though! I moved here (not for the post-bacc program) and love it. Its a super fun place to live, but it is very expensive. Someone wrote post-baccs were rich....I'm most definitely not one of them. But I enjoy the city nonetheless. Admittedly, I never really saw much of it when school was in session - I can tell you a great amount of detail on the libraries though.

Also, with all the griping, I have several interviews lined up and an acceptance (to a school I am strongly considering) under my belt. Could I have done this somewhere else for less money? Yeah, probably.

I didn't finish the program but I completely agree with what is said in the above. The committee letter is extremely important and people can and do lose committee support for no reason at all without notification and then are screwed out of 60k and two years. Not only that, but committee letters rank candidates even for those they do endorse (i.e. "student x is a fair student. We had 15 fair students, 23 good students, and 12 excellent students this year") so even a letter doesn't guarantee an acceptance. Go to your state school, save the money and the hassle. NYC is cool, but if you go to columbia, you'll live in butler and you'll only see it on your way in and out each day, if you see sunlight at all. Second year is supposed to be worse than first year. I can't imagine how. I feel for my friends that didn't escape the pain. . .

 

[mdforlife]

We had a meeting a month ago and they said to get a letter one must need a 3.0 GPA and submit the documents that they ask for on time. So I have a question if someone meets those requirements and then they don't give that person a letter, can't you just sue them? I mean after all of this money and then not getting support for no reason-that would qualify for a good lawsuit.

 

[seventiesgal200]

We had a meeting a month ago and they said to get a letter one must need a 3.0 GPA and submit the documents that they ask for on time. So I have a question if someone meets those requirements and then they don't give that person a letter, can't you just sue them? I mean after all of this money and then not getting support for no reason-that would qualify for a good lawsuit.

get it in writing =)
No that would be pretty appropriate to do because it is a professional school and when they promise you something, they should fulfill it. I'm not sure if someone would be able to sue because if they do it to everyone then everyone would then have to merge together and bring a suit against the college. It doesn't seem possible. Just hope for the best I guess and keep hassling the person giving you the recommendation letter.

 

[nefarious]

Guess I'm in the mood for fielding Columbia questions today...

We had a meeting a month ago and they said to get a letter one must need a 3.0 GPA and submit the documents that they ask for on time. So I have a question if someone meets those requirements and then they don't give that person a letter, can't you just sue them? I mean after all of this money and then not getting support for no reason-that would qualify for a good lawsuit.

No, you cannot. The program reserves the right to deny a letter for any reason. It used to be stated as much in program literature (FACETS or the GS webpage perhaps?). I know I have seen it spelled out before.

If you're not an ass (and considering some of the antics I've seen fellow Postbaccs pull without rebuke, that criterion is really just tacked on for show) and you meet the 3.0 requirement, you'll receive a letter.