Another oversupply story

Started by justavet
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OMG.

And I like how Givens is all, "Well, if there was ever a major zoonotic outbreak they'd all come in handy! 😉 👍 "

Are you kidding me?
 
It's worldwide. I know someone who owns a clinic in Melbourne (Australia). They are now getting vets applying for vet nursing or technician jobs...
 
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Yeah, I know Dan a little and he's one of the nicest, most sincere an caring people God ever made. He could see the positive in anything. I know for a fact he's deeply concerned about the debt and anxiety Auburn students face.

But yeah. I gotta wonder how, exactly, having an educational system that produces hordes of heavily indebted, un(der)employed companion animal vets prepares the nation to cope with an emergent animal epidemic.
 
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http://www.hesselbeininstitute.org/knowledgecenter/journal.aspx?ArticleID=71

This is what veterinary medicine has become. Veterinary administration in the colleges and the AVMA are both arrogant and ignorant of economic realities that affect all organizations, whether a non profit business, a for profit business or organization such as an army or a church. It can be changed but it takes rational and hard self criticism of your organization. I witnessed it personally in my father leading a nuclear power plant to becoming a trend and record setter in the industry after Three Mile Island. Sadly, there are no leaders in the AVMA or the academy.

Robert J Nix , UGA 1992
 
Can there be, though, in a zombie company? If someone tries to come forward from within, they'd be stifled or assimilated or evicted. If someone tries to make an impact from the outside, they are shut out, rejected or dismissed.
How can we effect change once the process is in place?
 
justavet said:
Can there be, though, in a zombie company? If someone tries to come forward from within, they'd be stifled or assimilated or evicted. If someone tries to make an impact from the outside, they are shut out, rejected or dismissed.
How can we effect change once the process is in place?
Click to expand...
Sometimes the organization gets so bad that all of the talent to solve the problems leaves. You might still have some stubborn gadfly around who is too bullheaded to give up. But sometimes the business or organization becomes irrelevant and dies because it does not have the knowledge or skills to save itself. I can give you a personal example with my dad's case in the nuclear power industry, pre and post Three Mile Island along with some other examples from business and military history. I 'll even give you the books and references, but I do not think most of the other posters here are interested.
 
Does any of this apply to Canada? In recent months I've read some scathing critiques of the veterinary profession, but most of the analysis and statistics are focused on the US. I recently asked a vet in Ontario what the job market was like in Canada and he said it's terrific. Another vet told me there is no opportunity for large animal practice in Canada anymore, but SA is thriving.

Any articles on the veterinary market in Canada???
 
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kittensmeow said:
Does any of this apply to Canada? In recent months I've read some scathing critiques of the veterinary profession, but most of the analysis and statistics are focused on the US. I recently asked a vet in Ontario what the job market was like in Canada and he said it's terrific. Another vet told me there is no opportunity for large animal practice in Canada anymore, but SA is thriving.

Any articles on the veterinary market in Canada???
Click to expand...

From my personal experience of speaking to vets in Ontario, it is a tight market here for small animal vets. I know relatively little about the large animal side of things; the one large animal vet I know could use some extra help, but that's hardly a reasonable sample size 😉
 
Forgive me. Perhaps it's just my naivete. But instead of throwing up hands and saying "There's nothing we can do", well, can I ask.. What CAN we do?

Who CAN we talk to? With whom can we discuss ideas? With whom can we debate, create a public discourse, create a working dialogue? What organizations already exist to serve this purpose? What organizations are working to analyze these numbers and provide possible solutions? There are always solutions. They may not be easy or simple or long-term, but there are always small things we can do to change the course of things.

Maybe I'm just being naive, but I would hope that the majority of people in our profession are more concerned about what we CAN do v.s. what we cannot. For example, one of the biggest factors leading to the decreasing numbers is that people in rough economic situations cannot afford pet medical care. Sounds a whole lot like the human health system. What is the role of pet insurance in this? Can HMO or PPO plans work for veterinary medicine? What have been some successes and failures? What can we learn from each? PLEASE, give me answers, because I hope to be one of the people trying to find these answers and help spur modern veterinary medicine to a more secure and stable future!
 
You can try to be entrepreneurial but to innovate in any organization it must abandon the past that really is no longer relevant, until you do that your chances are nil. Outside of the AVMA, the veterinary academy etc, there can be innovation , but the profession itself must make the changes needed to satisfy the new realities instead of stubbornly clinging to the past or to delusions of a future that will be when everyone else realizes our vision is the right one. A lot of leaders, especially in academia are creating mirages in which they believe themselves contrary to the reality of evidence.
 
anotherbusybee, that's why I asked the question I did. There are those of us out here trying to find ways to make progress.

And with that I issue an open invitation to the fIrst Unofficial Veterinary Economic Thinkers Summit.
This event will be held In Orlando Florida during the NAVC Conference Jan 2014.
Two drink minimum. You bring questions. I'll bring data.

Shall we invite some of the grownups? <eg>
 
justavet said:
anotherbusybee, that's why I asked the question I did. There are those of us out here trying to find ways to make progress.

And with that I issue an open invitation to the fIrst Unofficial Veterinary Economic Thinkers Summit.
This event will be held In Orlando Florida during the NAVC Conference Jan 2014.
Two drink minimum. You bring questions. I'll bring data.

Shall we invite some of the grownups? <eg>
Click to expand...

Save me a seat. In spite of my age, I'd rather not be counted as one of the grown-ups.
 
anotherbusybee said:
For example, one of the biggest factors leading to the decreasing numbers is that people in rough economic situations cannot afford pet medical care.
Click to expand...

That assumption may not be true - the amount of money spent on animals is just as big a pie as it's always been. The slice of that pie going toward veterinarians isn't keeping up. So it appears more likely that people have the money; they just aren't prioritizing veterinary care over pet merchandise.

(I'm sure you are correct that economic difficulties are a PIECE of it; I'm just dubious that it's "one of the biggest factors".)
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that vet med isn't exactly the only hurting profession in the US. (At least this is what I tell myself...)
 
LetItSnow, I remember Carter first hand. Seat saved.

The amount of money spent at veterinary clinics vs the amount spent at non veterinary animal facilities relative to how much disposable income people have is an interesting set of numbers to look at. That'll be one set of data I'll bring.

Any other requests?
 
justavet said:
anotherbusybee, that's why I asked the question I did. There are those of us out here trying to find ways to make progress.

And with that I issue an open invitation to the fIrst Unofficial Veterinary Economic Thinkers Summit.
This event will be held In Orlando Florida during the NAVC Conference Jan 2014.
Two drink minimum. You bring questions. I'll bring data.

Shall we invite some of the grownups? <eg>
Click to expand...

I really want to go to this meeting. I hope I can get the time to do so.
 
compare people's financial situation (income) and how much they do (or are willing to spend) on veterinary care....
Click to expand...
Why, yes, twelvetigers, that CAN be done... in several ways. I can think of three right now.

What day/time do we want to do this? I will be at NAVC evening of Sunday Jan 19th thru morning of Wed 23rd. Tied up Tuesday with official program I'm helping organize. Otherwise wide open.
 
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