Another Race/Ethnicity Question

[yungdoc]

Hey everyone,

I have been a premed for like 5 years now and I will be applying to med school this coming cycle. Over the years on this site, I have come across many instances where race appears to have played a small, but likely influential role in people being admitted to med school.

I am not looking for an advantage but I am looking to not mistakenly put myself at a disadvantage.

I posted a similar question a long time ago but I'm going to ask it again with more specifics. So I was born in Argentina and came to the US when I was 7. Spanish was my first language and at home I speak Spanish with my both my parents (their English is fine but they are more comfortable speaking Spanish). The "culture" in my house has been 100% Argentinean since the day I was born and it continues to be to this day. The thing is, I am 1/4 Korean (my mom is half and half) and I have a Korean last name. I have both my parents' last names with a hyphen between them (standard practice in many Hispanic cultures). The first last name is French and the other one is Korean. The things is, I literally don't identify with my Korean side AT ALL. When I signed up for the MCAT, I checked both "Asian" and "Hispanic" for my race because I was warned it might seem disingenuous if I only check "Hispanic" but now I am feeling like I wasn't being truthful because I literally don't identify as Asian at all.

If I were to receive an interview and my heritage were questioned, I would have no trouble "proving" that I am literally 100% Hispanic.

My question is: is it too "risky" to just list myself as "Hispanic" and risk medical schools thinking I am lying (because of my second last name)?

Also, if I were to change my race on my primary application, would it be flagged since on my MCAT registration I checked two races?

Thank you!

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[yungdoc]

@gyngyn @Goro @LizzyM

 

[OchemOficionado]

Argentinians generally aren't considered to be URM so I don't think you'll be getting a boost based on how you identify. Your ability to speak Spanish is a plus though. Have you served Spanish speaking populations?

Don't think your app will be flagged if you mark two different things on your MCAT and primary, but maybe someone else can address that. I say mark whatever you want as it likely will make no difference in the outcome of your cycle.

 

[yungdoc]

Argentinians generally aren't considered to be URM so I don't think you'll be getting a boost based on how you identify. Your ability to speak Spanish is a plus though. Have you served Spanish speaking populations?

Don't think your app will be flagged if you mark two different things on your MCAT and primary, but maybe someone else can address that. I say mark whatever you want as it likely will make no difference in the outcome of your cycle.

I'm from LA and through my clinal employment and clinical volunteering I did interact with tons of Spanish-speaking patients but I wasn't exclusively working with Spanish speakers.

I also worked for the Spanish division of a major sports company for over a year (not clinical at all though!)

 

[Goro]

Argentinians generally aren't considered to be URM so I don't think you'll be getting a boost based on how you identify. Your ability to speak Spanish is a plus though. Have you served Spanish speaking populations?

Don't think your app will be flagged if you mark two different things on your MCAT and primary, but maybe someone else can address that. I say mark whatever you want as it likely will make no difference in the outcome of your cycle.

This.
/thread

 

[LizzyM]

You were born in Argentina. You list your parents' names on the application and where they last attended school (in Argentina?) You speak Spanish. Some schools might give you a boost but you shouldn't count on it. There shouldn't be any doubt that you are multi-ethnic and an immigrant. Don't worry about being "Asian". That will not be held against you what so ever.

 

[siliso]

If a Nigerian counts as a black URM I can’t see why an Argentinian wouldn’t count as a Latino URM. Like why not?

 

[Goro]

If a Nigerian counts as a black URM I can’t see why an Argentinian wouldn’t count as a Latino URM. Like why not?

Apparently there are enough South American doctors to go around, and not enough South American patients?

 

[OchemOficionado]

If a Nigerian counts as a black URM I can’t see why an Argentinian wouldn’t count as a Latino URM. Like why not?

Latino isn't a URM category, from my understanding. You can be of any race and be Latino.

 

[LizzyM]

AAMC lets every school make their own definition of URM. LCME, the accreditation body, wants to see schools make an effort to recruit a diverse student body and a diverse faculty and staff. Schools play the system if they need to.

 

[siliso]

Sure, fair enough. Should it be... mestizo? Is that what the preference is for? I’m not against preferences or admission choices to promote diversity and to train doctors to serve their own underserved communities. I have noticed that these preferences seem to end up preferring 1st and 2nd gen immigrants from highly educated families in larger numbers than persons from our local underserved communities.

 

[puahate]

Sure, fair enough. Should it be... mestizo? Is that what the preference is for? I’m not against preferences or admission choices to promote diversity and to train doctors to serve their own underserved communities. I have noticed that these preferences seem to end up preferring 1st and 2nd gen immigrants from highly educated families in larger numbers than persons from our local underserved communities.

Is there data to support this?

 

[siliso]

I’m just thinking of the makeup of my own class few years back. In which I could count the racially URM students on both hands and both feet and still have left over, but the number of black Americans who weren’t immigrant or of immigrant parents on less than one hand. All of them qualified and excellent regardless - it just seems to be a gaming of the system to buff your “diversity” numbers with highly privileged persons from highly educated backgrounds in the name of promoting those overcoming disadvantages from underserved communities.

 

[OchemOficionado]

I’m just thinking of the makeup of my own class few years back. In which I could count the racially URM students on both hands and both feet and still have left over, but the number of black Americans who weren’t immigrant or of immigrant parents on less than one hand. All of them qualified and excellent regardless - it just seems to be a gaming of the system to buff your “diversity” numbers with highly privileged persons from highly educated backgrounds in the name of promoting those overcoming disadvantages from underserved communities.

I think your point is valid, but a worthy of a whole different convo as URM is about race specifically not about other disadvantages. Also, not all first or second gen immigrants come from privileged backgrounds.

 

[Med Ed]

I’m just thinking of the makeup of my own class few years back. In which I could count the racially URM students on both hands and both feet and still have left over, but the number of black Americans who weren’t immigrant or of immigrant parents on less than one hand. All of them qualified and excellent regardless - it just seems to be a gaming of the system to buff your “diversity” numbers with highly privileged persons from highly educated backgrounds in the name of promoting those overcoming disadvantages from underserved communities.

The basic problem is that most schools are unwilling to accept many applicants they perceive as academically risky. The AAMC has gone to great lengths to promote the idea that any MCAT over 500 give very good odds of passing Step1 on the first try and progressing to clerkships on time, and the data supports this. But admissions remains a risk-averse business, so these schools walk a fine line to satisfy the LCME, the faculty, and the senior administration (who generally wants to tout selectivity and high average metrics). This is how black children from recently immigrated, affluent parents end up in medical school, while African Americans whose families have been here for hundreds of years wait on the sidelines.

Medical schools actually would be much more diverse if admissions committees would (could?) lean down and accept more applicants with MCATs in the 500-506 range. This would include more low SES applicants who aren't URM, and overall I think that would be good for the system.

Of course, we all have that heartbreaking story of the high risk matriculant who doesn't hack it, and fails out with six figures of debt. Those situations, while rare, can weigh on the mind.

 

[enalli]

I’m not against preferences or admission choices to promote diversity and to train doctors to serve their own underserved communities. I have noticed that these preferences seem to end up preferring 1st and 2nd gen immigrants from highly educated families in larger numbers than persons from our local underserved communities.

Have you considered that maybe these immigrants from highly educated families are good candidates for medical school regardless of their ethnicity? It's kind of telling that you essentially admit to thinking that their admission is a perversion of preferences for underserved students.