Another "What are my chances" Post

[solumanculver]

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Hey,

So I've recently gotten depressed by reading that Crusader medics post, so I'll ask you about my chances... Sorry if you get this a lot.

MCAT: 35S
GPA: 3.7
Major: BS Chemistry & BA Religion
Research: 1 year Biochem, I'll be in my 3rd Semester of Research when I send my applications out.
Age By Matriculation: 27

I spent a year in Yemen studying Arabic and was a linguist in the army for 3.5years. I'm also commissioning into the medical service corps in the National Guard this summer. I've done the shadowing/volunteering stuff as well...

I'm basically interested in doing a PhD in neuroscience and going into psychiatry.

Well, thanks a lot.

 

[solitude]

Don't get discouraged, you have a strong app for pretty much every school out there. The weak point as I see it is the duration on research, but there are many applicants that get into MSTP's with 3 or 4 semesters of research. Apply to a range of schools, apply early, and slave over those essays. Good luck!

Hey,

So I've recently gotten depressed by reading that Crusader medics post, so I'll ask you about my chances... Sorry if you get this a lot.

MCAT: 35S
GPA: 3.7
Major: BS Chemistry & BA Religion
Research: 1 year Biochem, I'll be in my 3rd Semester of Research when I
send my applications out.
Age By Matriculation: 27

I spent a year in Yemen studying Arabic and was a linguist in the army for 3.5years. I'm also commissioning into the medical service corps in the National Guard this summer. I've done the shadowing/volunteering stuff as well...

I'm basically interested in doing a PhD in neuroscience and going into psychiatry.

Well, thanks a lot.

 

[solumanculver]

Thanks for your comment. I was wondering if anyone might know the best way to apply to MD/PhD programs while my girlfriend concurrently applies to Phd only programs. We're hoping to at least end up in the same city, if not the same school, but I'm not clear about the timelimes for each application process. Is it possible for one of us to be forced into making a decision before the other has received all the relevant offers?

 

[gbwillner]

Thanks for your comment. I was wondering if anyone might know the best way to apply to MD/PhD programs while my girlfriend concurrently applies to Phd only programs. We're hoping to at least end up in the same city, if not the same school, but I'm not clear about the timelimes for each application process. Is it possible for one of us to be forced into making a decision before the other has received all the relevant offers?

She should definitely follow YOUR application process. Getting into grad school is much easier than MD, let alone MSTP programs. It's also good to shoot for programs in large cities, ly NY, Chicago, Philly, etc., all of which have multiple schools in multiple tiers/rankings.

BTW, regrading you application: Solitude is right, you have a strong application. You have strong scores and an interesting background which is good. The quality of your GPA depends on where you went undergrad, but it's OK. 3 semesters research is probably adequate. Regarding the age thing, let me try to explain:
Schools (especially the more competitive ones) try to weed out older applicants. This is for several reasons. 1, they are trying to train academic physicians, and as an older applicant you will make an older resident and even still an older doc, and have a more limited shelf-life. 2. Older people are less maleable than younger ones. As a young student, you will likely often be treated as a scut monkey. It's not so easy when your attending is younger than you are. But most importantly, 3., Older students are more likely to drop out of the program. MSTP can be 10 years of frustration. If you have a family, it may be far more difficult to tolerate being a slave in a lab for 5 years. You will probably realize after 2-3 years that you can make 3-4x the salary by going into Orthopedic surgery or whatever, and drop the PhD and never do research again. Why would a school want to invest in that? Yes, younger MSTPs also fall into this trap. But older applicants have higher attrition rates in the MD portion as well, and often have difficulties because of other pressing commitments, like feeding their children. Don't ask me to provide statistics.

So all you have to do is convince the schools that you are really, really serious about MSTP, and hope that they believe you (which may or may not be possible). Your best bet is to apply to a lot of programs at different levels of competitiveness. Then its not a matter of if, but where you get in.

 

[solumanculver]

Hello,

Thanks a lot to you all for your comments. I have a couple of follow-up questions, if you don't mind. I understand that it's possible to move from an MD-only program to an MD/PhD program. Do you think that it might be easier for me to get into an MD-only program and try to make a move like this in my second year rather than apply MD/PhD and be scrutinized for my age? It seems to me that age isn't too relevant a factor for MD only applicants, at least not when the age is 27... Also, when making a move like that from MD to MD/PhD, tuition is covered by MSTP starting from the second year, right...? Anyway, thanks for your help,
Soluman

 

[SpeakLittleB]

From what I've heard from random MDs that switched into MSTP, it seems like that is very difficult to do. Mainly because you are competing against your few other (perhaps "equal") peers who also want to get into the program. Also you will likely not have done much research in your first year to support that part of your app.

I think you should apply MD-only only if you can accept the possibility that you may not get into the MSTP program at that school and will be satisfied continuing the medical track.

 

[solitude]

Agree, it's risky. I say apply MSTP to a wide range of schools. Perhaps if you get in MD-only to "top" schools and MSTP to "lower" schools, you would take the chance of going MD-only with the hope of transferring in. It would depend on how important money is to you, and how gungho you really are about the dual degree. I personally think that you have a good chance at MSTP's; you're only 3 or 4yrs older than most MSTP matriculants, and the rest of your app is great.

Also, others have noted on separate threads that the chance of MD-only acceptance to an MSTP applicant is lower, so you might have a lower chance at those "top" schools if you apply MSTP rather than MD-only. If only you could submit both an MSTP and an MD-only app in the same year! 🙂

From what I've heard from random MDs that switched into MSTP, it seems like that is very difficult to do. Mainly because you are competing against your few other (perhaps "equal") peers who also want to get into the program. Also you will likely not have done much research in your first year to support that part of your app.

I think you should apply MD-only only if you can accept the possibility that you may not get into the MSTP program at that school and will be satisfied continuing the medical track.

 

[dr.z]

Hey,

So I've recently gotten depressed by reading that Crusader medics post, so I'll ask you about my chances... Sorry if you get this a lot.

MCAT: 35S
GPA: 3.7
Major: BS Chemistry & BA Religion
Research: 1 year Biochem, I'll be in my 3rd Semester of Research when I send my applications out.
Age By Matriculation: 27

I spent a year in Yemen studying Arabic and was a linguist in the army for 3.5years. I'm also commissioning into the medical service corps in the National Guard this summer. I've done the shadowing/volunteering stuff as well...

I'm basically interested in doing a PhD in neuroscience and going into psychiatry.

Well, thanks a lot.

I don't think you should be worried too much. You are strong candiate.

 

[gbwillner]

Hello,

Thanks a lot to you all for your comments. I have a couple of follow-up questions, if you don't mind. I understand that it's possible to move from an MD-only program to an MD/PhD program. Do you think that it might be easier for me to get into an MD-only program and try to make a move like this in my second year rather than apply MD/PhD and be scrutinized for my age? It seems to me that age isn't too relevant a factor for MD only applicants, at least not when the age is 27... Also, when making a move like that from MD to MD/PhD, tuition is covered by MSTP starting from the second year, right...? Anyway, thanks for your help,
Soluman

Again, about the age thing... MD programs are also sticky with the age thing. But 27 is not that old. I wouldn't worry about it so much, I was making generalizations about how schools look at age.

You want to do MSTP, apply MSTP. It's stupid to try to "buck" the system by going MD only and trying to squeeze into MSTP. You may find youself "stuck" in med school without the PhD in the end.

 

[DeadCactus]

I'm also commissioning into the medical service corps in the National Guard this summer.

Just curious; is there some sort of program you will be in that keeps you non-deployable by the feds while in Med School or is it just a regular commitment and you are willing to take the risk an interuption in Med School?

 

[solumanculver]

Hello,

Actually, I'm going into a program that keeps you non-deployable throughout medical school and internship. Technically you are deployable for the rest of your residency, although I'm told that a resident in the national guard has never been deployed. The program is called "MS to MC" and it seems like in order to be eligible you must be a commissioned officer in the medical service corps.

Soluman

 

[CrusaderMedic]

If your doing the Health Professions Scholarship program then your assigned to an area of concentration that bascially means student and you pretty much cease to be in the National Guard, you either can pursue a career as a Nat'l Guard doc or an active duty doc....but beware, if you're planning on getting a commission, and then applying for the HPSP, it is pretty difficult. I've found that if your a 70B AOC it is next to impossible to get released from your branch to apply to the HPSP, I tried after I finished OBC a few years ago and my branch would not release me. So, my advice is talk to an army health care recruiter and get the paperwork in place and get accepted to medical school quickly, I would even say that getting an ed delay to duty and going direct to medical school is probably the safest option, because once you sign the dotted line you are army property and you really don't have much choice on where you go. Not to discourage you, just trying to keep you moving towards your end goal.....But, looks like with your scores you shouldn't have a problem getting into med school on the first try, so with that said; good luck 👍 .

 

[solumanculver]

Hello CrusaderMedic,

Thanks for your advice. I'm not planning on applying for HPSP for some of these very reasons. I learned the first time that I joined the army that all money that is "given" to you by uncle sam must be payed back in blood. I also don't want to be obligated to do an army residency, which HPSP requires. Actually, I don't really want to be in the army anymore, I just have a residual obligation from a Green-to-Gold packet that I put in when I was enlisted.

Anyway, I'm also in contact with army national guard healthcare recruiters, and hopefully they're having me do the right things to avoid being deployed in medical school.

Soluman

 

[DeadCactus]

Hello,

Actually, I'm going into a program that keeps you non-deployable throughout medical school and internship. Technically you are deployable for the rest of your residency, although I'm told that a resident in the national guard has never been deployed. The program is called "MS to MC" and it seems like in order to be eligible you must be a commissioned officer in the medical service corps.

Soluman

Happen to have a link to information on this program?

 

[jeniffer lopez]

Dear Solumanculver,
I am now 27 and will be 28 by the time of matriculation. I have done pretty well so far in the application process. 👍 The ONLY school that asked me about my age EVER was Harvard, and it was because, according to them, I was ready for an academic career without the PhD part because of previous experiences I have had. My advice is not to worry about it. One interviewer there even told me that she liked the fact that I was older because I could make "wiser decisions." Cheer up!

 

[CrusaderMedic]

I second that......OP, any chance we can get some info on this program, I know a lot of people that this would help.

 

[solumanculver]

Crusadermedic,

Hi, up till now I haven't really demanded too much from my national guard medical recruiters in terms of precise regulations regarding the program because, frankly, no matter what they tell me I'll still join the national guard. The truth is that I'm commissioning this summer and I can't be accepted to a medical school until 2008, so I'm ineligible for an Ed delay. But now that you guys have asked I'll see what I can do to get more information from my recruiters and post the link. Sorry I can't do any more now, but I'll try to get something for you soon.

Soluman