another what are my chances

[collateral]

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I am an fmg from england. I'm interested in psych. I've done my step 1- 4 times (190/78) and my step 2- 2times (196/79). I've done some research with about 4 papers pending for publication in medicine. i've done some psych research in england-no paper but a poster presentation at a national meeting. However, all of my letters are strictly from the non-psych clinicians I worked with. I have a lot of medical experience but no psych clinical experience in the US. Do I have a shot? which programs?

 

[collateral]

anyone???

 

[nitemagi]

Well I think the best first step is to get some letters from some psych clinicians. I can't speak for all programs, only the ones I've looked at, but most require at least 1 letter from a psychiatry faculty. You always have a shot, but keep in mind that even many US grads have scores comparable with yours.

If you're serious about Psych in the U.S., I'd suggest doing an away rotation in the U.S. at a program in which you're interested, that has a history of accepting FMG's. Then try to get a letter from a faculty at that institution as well.

Best of Luck.

 

[sga430]

i have a friend who is a US carribean grad who has about the same scores as you with about 3 or more attempts on each. of course the time he spent on usmle made him an old grad (more than 5 years.) He does have USCE. He also has done a US psych externship (not sure when he did it.) For the last match all he got was 2 interviews in FP although he applied to pscyh, peds and maybe IM. I am not sure how many progs he applied to. For this match he is gonna take step 3. I hope this does not discourage you, but I feel for you, you will need to take step 3. most programs will feel you may take a few attempts on step 3 especially since psych residents are notorious for flunking them. Also you will need to do a psych externship with maybe some research. you can try this year without step 3 and USCE but dont get discouraged if you dont get in. check out www.fmgamerica.com for their psych list. it may not be current nor 100% accurate but will give u a general idea.

PM me for more info about externships.

 

[OBfan]

i have a friend who is a US carribean grad who has about the same scores as you with about 3 or more attempts on each. of course the time he spent on usmle made him an old grad (more than 5 years.) He does have USCE. He also has done a US psych externship (not sure when he did it.) For the last match all he got was 2 interviews in FP although he applied to pscyh, peds and maybe IM. I am not sure how many progs he applied to. For this match he is gonna take step 3. I hope this does not discourage you, but I feel for you, you will need to take step 3. most programs will feel you may take a few attempts on step 3 especially since psych residents are notorious for flunking them. Also you will need to do a psych externship with maybe some research. you can try this year without step 3 and USCE but dont get discouraged if you dont get in. check out www.fmgamerica.com for their psych list. it may not be current nor 100% accurate but will give u a general idea.

PM me for more info about externships.

Wow,
A lot of your advice is pretty discouraging. I was under the impression that psych was not that competitive of a match and that img's, even with low scores, usually get a spot. I am a img in my 3rd year. I took step 1 passing it with my first shot 184/74. I am hoping to do better on step 2. Do you think my chances are this dismal as well?

 

[Panda61]

If you are trying to match psych this year (Mar 07), faculty has said that this year is one of the most competitive seen so far (in 10+ years). Most USG will have 215 or better on step 1 and a general cut-off seems to be first-time pass on STEP1 and STEP2 (CK and CS). That said, practical clinical skills as reflected on LORs are what will get yuou interviewed.

The residency programs in FM are the least filled; one might want to read that as least competitive....

 

[Analyzethis]

why did psych all of a sudden get competitive? Like what out of the blue in 10 years did it get so compeitive? I am not understanding

 

[whopper]

I think a lot of the fear of not getting in is just based on the typical medschool fear against the competitive competition.

The fact of the matter is there's been a shortage of people coming into residencies for years. Several programs don't get as many residents as they want.

Does that mean you'll get into your #1 program? Probably not if your resume isn't top notch, but you probably will get into a program somewhere, especially if you speak fluent English.

I mentioned this to OBfan, but my own program: UMDNJ in Camden--which is further split into 2 programs: Atlantic City & Cooper Hospital in Camden. They're friendly to IMGs. However I suggest you get a J-1 Visa. Several programs I've seen don't want visaless applicants.

 

[Poety]

i have a friend who is a US carribean grad who has about the same scores as you with about 3 or more attempts on each. of course the time he spent on usmle made him an old grad (more than 5 years.) He does have USCE. He also has done a US psych externship (not sure when he did it.) For the last match all he got was 2 interviews in FP although he applied to pscyh, peds and maybe IM. I am not sure how many progs he applied to. For this match he is gonna take step 3. I hope this does not discourage you, but I feel for you, you will need to take step 3. most programs will feel you may take a few attempts on step 3 especially since psych residents are notorious for flunking them. Also you will need to do a psych externship with maybe some research. you can try this year without step 3 and USCE but dont get discouraged if you dont get in. check out www.fmgamerica.com for their psych list. it may not be current nor 100% accurate but will give u a general idea.

PM me for more info about externships.

that above quote is completely untrue, the entire 2nd-4th years at my program passed first attempt on step 3 and now moonlight independently during their 2nd year.

 

[nitemagi]

If you are trying to match psych this year (Mar 07), faculty has said that this year is one of the most competitive seen so far (in 10+ years). Most USG will have 215 or better on step 1 and a general cut-off seems to be first-time pass on STEP1 and STEP2 (CK and CS). That said, practical clinical skills as reflected on LORs are what will get yuou interviewed.

The residency programs in FM are the least filled; one might want to read that as least competitive....

Panda, can you cite a source on this? Is this word of mouth from faculty at your home school/program? And is that university based/affiliated/community?

Thx.

 

[whopper]

Poety...
Your program may be different. I know of several programs where psyche residents flunked step III much more than the other branches of medicine. I don't know what program you are in but it may have been one of the more competitive ones that demanded better USMLE scores. Several I know of don't care about USMLE scores--and get lower scoring residents. They have this ideology because they didn't feel the USMLE was a good indicator of future performance as a psychiatrist.

I think you mentioned that all the residents in your program are US residents. US grads pass their USMLE 98% of the time on their first try. IMGs do so about 70% of the time. Numbers are taken from First Aid for the boards. You may be in a situation where since all the residents are US grads, they may be higher scoring in their USMLE anyways--which will correlate to a higher chance passing Step III.

In psychiatry, you do not do as much medicine as the other fields. Every field--you're going to be in a situation where your patient is in seriously bad physical health at some point and they can die if you don't make the right choice. Hardly happens in psyche, in fact my own attendings several times would not touch a physical medical condition with a 10 foot pole, even if it was something idiotically easy to manage such as a simple cough.

 

[whopper]

Collateral,

I hate saying this but your numbers are not encouraging. However I still think you have a decent chance of getting into a program. As I said in other threads, several programs I interviewed at did not care about USMLE scores so long as they knew that I spoke English as a 1st language, communicated fluently and had good interview skills and a passion for psychiatry.

You might not get into the top programs but I do think you have a chance to get into a program. I advise you apply to more programs as safety schools. Shelve out the money to apply to more programs. Also make sure you can compete with other applicants in things such as physical exams & H&Ps and such because I know that in the UK they do not push their students in their respective years of school training as they do in the US.

If you can, get a reccomendation letter from a psychiatrist. Work with one if you can. Get some more psyche experience. One common question I get asked is "what was your favorite book in psychiatry" and don't give the usual answer--Kaplan & Sadock. Most interviewers know no one would ever read that book for fun (and to show you how much of a psyche geek I am, I used to read it for fun.)

From what your telling me, you may get some people ask you if you are trying Psychiatry just to get into a residency. For example--you wrote you have a lot of medical experience on your CV but not so much psychiatry.

****I heard a lot of interviewers tell me they are sick of applicants who only applied into Psychiatry because the lifestyle is easier and because they couldn't get into another field of medicine***

Also make sure you get a J-1 Visa. That'll help you and make you a more attractive candidate vs other IMGs.

Don't give up. I think you got a shot. Just be ready though for a lot of people who may condescendingly look down upon your USMLE performance. Unfortunately, people with attitudes happens quite a bit in medicine. I know a lot of doctors that would've made good pimps. My own pep talk advise---screw these people. Once you get in, all those people will just make the victory sweeter.