Answering the why us question on Secondaries

[anothercaliapp]

So I have been verified and have started to get secondaries. The why [medical school] question stumps me. Like other applicants, I have applied to many medical schools.

What is your general approach in answering this question? Look on the website and find something to write about?

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[TriagePreMed]

Well, why did you apply? Was it just because it was close by? Do they have a good track record for people under your specialty? Have they come out with some research you enjoy? Do you have friends that say good things about them? Seriously, if you can't think of why you want to be there, that's just plain sad.

 

[Nasrudin]

So I have been verified and have started to get secondaries. The why [medical school] question stumps me. Like other applicants, I have applied to many medical schools.

What is your general approach in answering this question? Look on the website and find something to write about?

I tried to speak to them about why their city and community. Feeling myself stretching too much talking about the school unless I could find a specific angle of sincere interest. For example a free-standing children's hospital for training residents and medical students. Something like that. On one occasion a mission statement I found compelling. Anything that gets you speaking honestly and enthusiastically. And truthfully. Things ring true when they are. This works especially well if you can weave these things back into why you are a good fit for the medical school in question.

But yeah. Why Toledo? I applied there. And I still don't have an answer except a conjectural future [email protected]'m in Toledo. I should have studied harder for the MCAT.

 

[Nasrudin]

Well, why did you apply?

This can be a different consideration for a candidate from Cali, let alone a strike or two against them. The question becomes why not? or can I afford to waste money applying to this school?

Was it just because it was close by?

If you love where you live this is an excellent reason.

Do they have a good track record for people under your specialty?

I'd be careful claiming a specialty as a premed. It could be expressed better in terms of general abiding interests.

Have they come out with some research you enjoy?

Maybe. If you want to do a certain kind of research and a school is a powerhouse in that, then sure. Mentioning a schnazzy paper by dr whathiznutz just for conversation. Not compelling enough.

Do you have friends that say good things about them?

Friends that go there. Then yes.

Seriously, if you can't think of why you want to be there, that's just plain sad.

That's a little harsh. Given there's plenty of us in exile from places we'd stay if we had the choice.

 

[TriagePreMed]

That's a little harsh. Given there's plenty of us in exile from places we'd stay if we had the choice.

Unless you just applied to the school because "oh well, I have no better choice" it is sad because you didn't think it through. Even if you picked it because "oh well, I have no better choice," you should consider if you'd be successful or happy there, or does that kind of stuff not matter anymore?

As for a specialty, I'd have to say I disagree. I have yet to hear of an interview where they don't ask you about this. Just a "general" desire could prop up the idea that you haven't even had a long-term thought on this besides "I want to be in health care." It would then leave you open to the question of why not NP? Why not PA? Why not nursing? At the very least a person should say they have an interest in a particular thing (e.g. I like studying the nervous system, and since your school is well known for training some of the best neurologists, I would like to learn through them.)

 

[eablackwell]

I chose my schools based on

#1) Location. If I'm not happy living somewhere, then I will not perform to the best of my ability.

#2) Their school is known for a professional area of interest.

I think this is why most people choose to apply to schools.

 

[Nasrudin]

Unless you just applied to the school because "oh well, I have no better choice" it is sad because you didn't think it through. Even if you picked it because "oh well, I have no better choice," you should consider if you'd be successful or happy there, or does that kind of stuff not matter anymore?

As for a specialty, I'd have to say I disagree. I have yet to hear of an interview where they don't ask you about this. Just a "general" desire could prop up the idea that you haven't even had a long-term thought on this besides "I want to be in health care." It would then leave you open to the question of why not NP? Why not PA? Why not nursing? At the very least a person should say they have an interest in a particular thing (e.g. I like studying the nervous system, and since your school is well known for training some of the best neurologists, I would like to learn through them.)

The question of why medicine vs NP, PA, nursing is an easily defensible position without having to know one's specialty before going through 3rd year of medical school.

I don't think schools ask this question to collect viable data--mainly because it isn't remotely viable. But. We've entered the realm of human subjectivity. And we must all go into this vespertine wilderness alone in the end. So go as you will. I still think it's the equivalent to pointing to the centerfield wall with an 0 and 2 count. For every Babe Ruth among us there's going to be few dozen fools. And thus I'd be wary of confidence in this regard.

 

[NTF]

Seriously, if you can't think of why you want to be there, that's just plain sad.

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with TriagePreMed. If you're a stellar applicant with options comin' out of your ears then yes, you've probably put a ton of thought into which school you want to go to. But let's face it, many of us were not "stellar" candidates. Many of us were just trying to get in ANYWHERE.

I always hated the the "Why us?" question. I understand why they ask it, but for candidates like me it often seems like hurling a handful of grapes at a starving man and asking him exactly why he ate a particular grape first.

We all know the true answers to these questions:
1)You are an accredited medical school that offers MD or DO degrees
2)There's an outside chance based on the history of previous matriculants that you might offer me an acceptance

and occasionally
3)You are a public institution with lower than average tuition

But like many things in life you have to play the game sometimes. So to answer the OP the usual stategy to these questions is to:
1)Peruse the schools website
2)Find things that sincerely interest you to talk about
3)Find things that allow you to talk about experiences you've had that would mesh well or qualify you to make a positive contribution to in the future

In reality this is a question that goes to the concept of "fit". It's a consideration that is important to schools. To the applicant this means the essay is about finding away to convince the adcom "Yes, this applicant is a great fit for our school."

 

[MSmentor018]

location, community, what the school is known for, look at the mission statement, what type of residencies come out of there, cost, rotation places, military affiliations....etc. anything the website/brochure describes about the school. I had a general secondary written then changed the demographics as needed for each school. you're half way to getting the interview so sell yourself and pull out all the stops. good luck!

 

[YaBoyAR]

i feel like the reason you may be having a difficult time is perhaps you don't know enough about the school. checling each schools website/history should help

 

[EdLongshanks]

i feel like the reason you may be having a difficult time is perhaps you don't know enough about the school. checling each schools website/history should help

I was having problems with this until I realized that I had not applied to very many schools. There are reasons that I made THIS school one of the handful to which I applied. I just said what those reasons were.

 

[akinetopsia]

What method did you go about choosing schools to apply to? I'm not applying this cycle but I've given some thought to it, and where I'm going to apply will come down to several factors.

• First, geography: is it in-state for me, is it near family, or is it near a location I'd love to live in, stay in, and eventually work in?
• Second, is it non-trad friendly?
• Third, is it out-of-state friendly?
• Fourth, the school's mission, policies, and reputation. Example: does the school's mission mention producing physicians for underserved areas or for rural areas, and maybe that's not an area I'm particularly interested in or don't have any past activities or involvements that show I'm dedicated to that particular mission? Then I wouldn't apply.
• Last but not least, I'd compare the costs of attendance between schools, because there's no way I'd be applying somewhere with some of the highest amounts of average student debt for their graduates.

 

[TriagePreMed]

The question of why medicine vs NP, PA, nursing is an easily defensible position without having to know one's specialty before going through 3rd year of medical school.

Okay, I welcome you to easily defend it then.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I'm going to go ahead and disagree with TriagePreMed. If you're a stellar applicant with options comin' out of your ears then yes, you've probably put a ton of thought into which school you want to go to. But let's face it, many of us were not "stellar" candidates. Many of us were just trying to get in ANYWHERE.

Even stellar applicants shouldn't be overconfident in their "why us?" response, but an applicant that wants to get in "anywhere," like me, should be more responsible than to just take anything served to them in the table. For example, if you want to apply to Rosalind Franklin because it is perceived as one of the easiest to get into, you should at least have researched that: 1) this school good outcomes for students, 2) the city you will live in is safe for you, 3) how affordable the education is, 4) what type of people you'd expect to treat during your clinical years, etc. It's truly not THAT hard to even have a superficial idea as to why you want to be there. If you're truly okay with "anywhere," be ready to cope with being entirely miserable in every other aspect if necessary.

 

[EdLongshanks]

What method did you go about choosing schools to apply to? I'm not applying this cycle but I've given some thought to it, and where I'm going to apply will come down to several factors.

• First, geography: is it in-state for me, is it near family, or is it near a location I'd love to live in, stay in, and eventually work in?
• Second, is it non-trad friendly?
• Third, is it out-of-state friendly?
• Fourth, the school's mission, policies, and reputation. Example: does the school's mission mention producing physicians for underserved areas or for rural areas, and maybe that's not an area I'm particularly interested in or don't have any past activities or involvements that show I'm dedicated to that particular mission? Then I wouldn't apply.
• Last but not least, I'd compare the costs of attendance between schools, because there's no way I'd be applying somewhere with some of the highest amounts of average student debt for their graduates.

The cost of attendance in the MSAR isn't useful because it doesn't take into account that many of the higher priced schools are very generous with scholarships. What I used, instead, was the average debt of the graduating student. This gives a better feel for the real cost of the school.

My methodology was this. Firstly, state schools are a given. Secondly, I (perhaps unfairly) ruled out all of the other state schools. They are either going to be hard for an out-of-stater to get into or their tuition is high without scholarship offsets. I don't care for the northeast, (too many expletive yankees 😉 ) so out went all of the non-ivy league schools in the NE. After my MCAT came in at 33, out went the ivy-leagues. That left me with just a few dozen schools.

Of the remaining schools, which ones would give me heart palpitations if I could get in. I chose two of those. I then chose one school because a good friend suggested it as a match. This wasn't a logical choice, just a choice based on a friend's suggestion.

I now needed 2 schools for safety's. I used the spreadsheet in the Chances forum and looked through the schools that were listed as good safeties. I looked at those through a microscope. Do they post their lesson's online, where are they located, how much do their student's owe, what is the founding philosophy, what is their grading system?

Now, my "why this school" answer is written. For the reach schools, I have no problem. What makes my heart go thump? For the state schools, obvious - I love this state. For the safe schools, what made me pick them instead of the others.

 

[Nasrudin]

Even stellar applicants shouldn't be overconfident in their "why us?" response, but an applicant that wants to get in "anywhere," like me, should be more responsible than to just take anything served to them in the table. For example, if you want to apply to Rosalind Franklin because it is perceived as one of the easiest to get into, you should at least have researched that: 1) this school good outcomes for students, 2) the city you will live in is safe for you, 3) how affordable the education is, 4) what type of people you'd expect to treat during your clinical years, etc. It's truly not THAT hard to even have a superficial idea as to why you want to be there. If you're truly okay with "anywhere," be ready to cope with being entirely miserable in every other aspect if necessary.

I actually applied to some places as an inverse process to the one's your indicating. I said to myself. Who would want to go there if they had choices? I likely won't, so I will. That place is third world unsafe....would probably scare away half of my competition at first glance. Perfect. Man, that place is so outrageously expensive only a hellbent fundamentalist fanatic of a premed would even put down the secondary fee. Lovely, where do I sign. And so on.

Now. You're making good points. So it's not that entirely disagree with you. I'm just pointing out the potential to exploit a paradox. Especially when one is coming from the down position. And to further serve your case the schools that I chose on the above basis that interviewed me did not accept me. And the ones I chose based on my selective criteria and enthusiasm did. So your point is well taken going to the interview stage. It's hard to sit face to face and be convincing about wanting to go to a school based solely on not wasting years of premed effort.

As to the defensibility of wanting this or that career. For me, as a grown (more accurately old @ss) man. Coming up through grunt level health care work and full time studies. I had every incentive to chose being a nurse or anything else. And was asked why not nursing or PA hundreds of times before I even applied. By friends, relatives, teachers, advisers--I use the term loosely, neighbors, classmates, co-workers, bosses, mailmen...you get the point. So my stubborn persistence to get to a medical school interview spoke for itself. I brushed aside that question respectfully in 1 to 3 sentences. And all of my interviewers seemed satisfied with something along the lines of ...[this is what I want to do, that's why I'm here].

 

[ArkansasRanger]

So I have been verified and have started to get secondaries. The why [medical school] question stumps me. Like other applicants, I have applied to many medical schools.

What is your general approach in answering this question? Look on the website and find something to write about?

That is a good question. Frankly, we all know the answer is "because I have to go somewhere so why not here!"

 

[EdLongshanks]

That is a good question. Frankly, we all know the answer is "because I have to go somewhere so why not here!"

But you are not applying at all 159 "why not" places. You have lowered that number to, at most, a couple dozen. There is a reason that you chose those places. All I had to do was look at the MSAR and see what I had underlined and what notes I had written there while discussing it with my wife. "Oh, wow," I said, "I do have a reason that I applied there."

 

[ArkansasRanger]

But you are not applying at all 159 "why not" places. You have lowered that number to, at most, a couple dozen. There is a reason that you chose those places. All I had to do was look at the MSAR and see what I had underlined and what notes I had written there while discussing it with my wife. "Oh, wow," I said, "I do have a reason that I applied there."

For me it's UAMS followed by

Location. Location. Location.

 

[akinetopsia]

Last but not least, I'd compare the costs of attendance between schools, because there's no way I'd be applying somewhere with some of the highest amounts of average student debt for their graduates.

The cost of attendance in the MSAR isn't useful because it doesn't take into account that many of the higher priced schools are very generous with scholarships. What I used, instead, was the average debt of the graduating student. This gives a better feel for the real cost of the school.

I haven't bought the MSAR, I've compared school websites to see what they quote as the CoA. I also mention in my post most "average student debt" (added emphasis) meaning I'm looking at average indebtedness as the bottom line, even though I didn't explicitly say that. I realize a school that is $70k/year CoA but has average indebtedness of $114k is probably better than a school with $55k/year CoA but average indebtedness of $130k. No matter how much I like a school, all things equal it's hard to justify picking a potential much more expensive option from the get-go.

 

[Excelsius]

The cost of attendance in the MSAR isn't useful because it doesn't take into account that many of the higher priced schools are very generous with scholarships. What I used, instead, was the average debt of the graduating student. This gives a better feel for the real cost of the school.
...

That is not necessarily accurate either. Schools in locations where many students attend from wealthier families will have less debt because their parents paid for or loaned the money for part or all of the tuition. Given that there are no safety schools and that one might never know the final financial package from any given school, I think it makes sense to first apply to all the school you'd really want to attend. Once that's out of the way, the rest of the schools can be sorted by tuition because if a school costs $80k/yr, even with a large scholarship the price tag is going to be very high. In addition to this, I think that the cost of living around the school is also a very important factor because it can save you a lot of money. CNN has a cost of living calculator and it is amazing that you can buy a house in Colorado with lower monthly payments than renting a studio in CA. Food and clothing can also be much lower. Essentially, this means that I can have 0 cost of living in a place like CO because I can buy a house, rent out couple of the rooms, and the income from there alone will cover the mortgage and possibly other living expenses. Now if you are married with several kids this might not really work unless you get a really big place.

 

[NTF]

Even stellar applicants shouldn't be overconfident in their "why us?" response, but an applicant that wants to get in "anywhere," like me, should be more responsible than to just take anything served to them in the table. For example, if you want to apply to Rosalind Franklin because it is perceived as one of the easiest to get into, you should at least have researched that: 1) this school good outcomes for students, 2) the city you will live in is safe for you, 3) how affordable the education is, 4) what type of people you'd expect to treat during your clinical years, etc. It's truly not THAT hard to even have a superficial idea as to why you want to be there. If you're truly okay with "anywhere," be ready to cope with being entirely miserable in every other aspect if necessary.

The OP was talking about a "Why us?" essay. Not an existential question of knowing the pros and cons of each school he's applying to. Some how I don't think telling a school "superficial" ideas about why you chose their school like their low tuition and low crime-rate is really what schools want out of an essay like that. And mostly the thing you talk about come into play if you're lucky enough to choose from several acceptances. Aside from my longshots, I applied to schools that I thought I'd have the best chance to get accepted at. Only after getting several acceptances (way after secondary essays were over) did the calculus you describe begin. I will say that people shouldn't apply to schools they know they wouldn't go to for whatever reason. But the category of schools of "ones I'd go to" is pretty broad and often ain't that discriminating. I agree with you that once you've made your bed and go to a school, you suck it up and sleep in it. You do your 4 years and repeat the process for residency.

And the reality is that accredited US med schools are really not that different in the training they provide to the average med student. Every school has strengths and weaknesses associated with their pre-clinical and clinical training, but overall the outcomes have more to do with the quality of the student rather than the quality of the school.

I think mostly what I was disagreeing with was your holier-than-thou attitude that having trouble with a "Why us?" essay is somehow "sad". To be honest I found most app essays to be painful to write and exercises in game-playing. I understand their purpose, but believe me I don't think it's sad when someone has trouble answering one of them. I can empathize acutely with it.

 

[EdLongshanks]

I think mostly what I was disagreeing with was your holier-than-thou attitude that having trouble with a "Why us?" essay is somehow "sad". To be honest I found most app essays to be painful to write and exercises in game-playing. I understand their purpose, but believe me I don't think it's sad when someone has trouble answering one of them. I can empathize acutely with it.

Fogie,

I like your reply a lot, in fact I started an essay with it. I said
-----
If a man dying of thirst were thrust into the bottled water department, the most important part of the brand names would be "water." So also, the most important part of your school's name, to me, is "school of medicine." Nevertheless, there are several reasons why I believe that your school and I are a good fit....
-----
Then someone (Ok, I confess, it was our moderator Q) advised me that I could start the essay with, "There are several reasons why I believe your school and I are a good fit" and leave off the water analogy.

 

[TriagePreMed]

The OP was talking about a "Why us?" essay. Not an existential question of knowing the pros and cons of each school he's applying to. Some how I don't think telling a school "superficial" ideas about why you chose their school like their low tuition and low crime-rate is really what schools want out of an essay like that. And mostly the thing you talk about come into play if you're lucky enough to choose from several acceptances. Aside from my longshots, I applied to schools that I thought I'd have the best chance to get accepted at. Only after getting several acceptances (way after secondary essays were over) did the calculus you describe begin. I will say that people shouldn't apply to schools they know they wouldn't go to for whatever reason. But the category of schools of "ones I'd go to" is pretty broad and often ain't that discriminating. I agree with you that once you've made your bed and go to a school, you suck it up and sleep in it. You do your 4 years and repeat the process for residency.

And the reality is that accredited US med schools are really not that different in the training they provide to the average med student. Every school has strengths and weaknesses associated with their pre-clinical and clinical training, but overall the outcomes have more to do with the quality of the student rather than the quality of the school.

I think mostly what I was disagreeing with was your holier-than-thou attitude that having trouble with a "Why us?" essay is somehow "sad". To be honest I found most app essays to be painful to write and exercises in game-playing. I understand their purpose, but believe me I don't think it's sad when someone has trouble answering one of them. I can empathize acutely with it.

Now you're exaggerating saying I had a "holier than thou" attitude. I do truly believe that it is sad if you can't come up with anything, and given that you've taken such offense, you're probably a sad person yourself. As for the OP, I found him sad not for having trouble writing the essay but because he had nothing to write about at all. Means he hasn't researched anything at all and will be luck if he's not miserable the next 4 years.

I don't think it is inappropriate to include in an essay something like, "I was attracted to your school's financial aid options and low cost tuition, since it not only opens doors to me, a student whose limited sources wouldn't allow him to accomplish his dream at a high cost tuition institution, but is a viable resource for all students who come from disadvantaged backgrounds, which means that the likelihood of diversity within the campus is greater." This of course is top of my head writing, so don't criticize based on it not being formatted beautifully and with every sugar coating possible.

 

[EdLongshanks]

Now you're exaggerating saying I had a "holier than thou" attitude. I do truly believe that it is sad if you can't come up with anything, and given that you've taken such offense, you're probably a sad person yourself...

Children, Children, please....

Come on, this is the non-trad forum. We are supposed to be older and more mature here. Very few of us know enough about each other to make a judgment like that.

Goodness, as the fundamentalist evangelical here, I am supposed to be the judgmental person. You all are trying to steal my position.

 

[QofQuimica]

Fogie,

I like your reply a lot, in fact I started an essay with it. I said
-----
If a man dying of thirst were thrust into the bottled water department, the most important part of the brand names would be "water." So also, the most important part of your school's name, to me, is "school of medicine." Nevertheless, there are several reasons why I believe that your school and I are a good fit....
-----
Then someone (Ok, I confess, it was our moderator Q) advised me that I could start the essay with, "There are several reasons why I believe your school and I are a good fit" and leave off the water analogy.

Just try to wait until you get in first before you let all your hair hang out. 😉

OP, as others have suggested, you should do some research on the school and make a list of a few things that you like about that school. Every med school has something that they're especially proud of and think makes them stand out among all other med schools. To get a feel for this, look at what different schools emphasize on their website or in their MSAR entry.

 

[anothercaliapp]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

To TriagePreMed: Being "sad." That comment did catch me a little off-guard. I did not state I had nothing to write about the schools. I simply asked for feedback on how others approached the questions, and that is how most people responded to my original inquiry. You are assuming that I did not research the schools I applied to, an assumption that is incorrect. And I hope to become successful this cycle and certainly don't want to be miserable for the next four years. Hence, my inquiry and participation on the board.

Best of luck to you and all other non-trads this cycle!

 

[NTF]

given that you've taken such offense, you're probably a sad person yourself.

Apparently, if someone disagrees with what you say it means they're taking offense and that makes them a sad person?

 

[NTF]

Come on, this is the non-trad forum. We are supposed to be older and more mature here. Very few of us know enough about each other to make a judgment like that.

Ed, we both know age is no guarantee of maturity. 🙂 Plus, I've always subscribed to the "Dilbert" principle: Every person spends at least some portion of every day being an idiot.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Apparently, if someone disagrees with what you say it means they're taking offense and that makes them a sad person?

It's not if "someone." It is you. You seem to impassioned about the topic.

 

[n3xa]

Every person spends at least some portion of every day being an idiot.

That pretty much sums up being a graduate student in a nutshell. 😛