Any advice or input on what to do next

[Ehtar Moriarty]

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I have been applpying to Medical School for 4 years. The first year, Fall '07, I had a 27M on the MCAT and a 2.83. Obviously didn't get any good results. I retook the MCAT and got a 35N. I applied, fall '08 to only my in-state school, Univ. of Arizona and didn't even get a secondary. I started grad school and finished the first year with a 4.0 in my Molecular and Cellular Biology MS program. I applied again, Fall '09, only to U of A, got a secondary but no interview. Later that year I applied to Midwestern Glendale D.O. very late, got an interview and waitlisted. I applied very very early to both Midwestern and U of A this cycle, Fall '10. I interviewed in September at Midwestern, interview went very poorly and I was not surprised to be rejected. Interview in October at both U of A campuses, Phoenix went well, and Tucson interview was literally perfect, I mean I couldn't have pre-scripted a better interview. That December I graduated with an M.S. in Molecular and Cellular Biology with a 3.6. I sent an update letter to both U of A schools. I got rejected from both.

I have a shadowed both a Radiologist and a Surgeon for a day. Clocked in 100 ER volunteer hours. I have a baller PS statement, anybody who reads it just says "wow". I regularly visit a rest home with my dog for therapy visits. While applying to Medical School I worked full time doing research, got married, and bought a house. I got published as an undergraduate. Right now I am teaching Biology at the College and High School level, just as an inbetween as I wasn't sure if I was getting to med school this cycle. I guess I just have a few questions and any advice is really appreciated.

Is this really a result of only applying to 3 schools over a 3 year period and that if I apply to 20 schools next year, some school is really going to love my progress/me and I am just not the right fit for these three schools?

What do I do now? I am think about teaching anatomy and phys here next year, becoming an emt is another thought as well as doing a SMP.... my BCPM were not that bad. B+ and C in Organic, A- and B+ in Physics, B and C in Chm, and Two A's in Gen Bio...... I kinda don't see the point in repeating any undergrad courses.

-Most advice I have gotton is to do a couple undergrad courses to fix my GPA and apply to more schools

I totally agree the lack of applying to schools. My wife and I were trying to stick it out and see if we could stay in Phoenix for med-school. So I will definitely be applying to more schools.

-I have a unique problem with taking a few courses to boost my undergraduate GPA. I was kind of a bad student for 4 YEARS and then decided to turn my life around to go to Med-School, I then basically had to do a Bio degree from scratch as I didn't have a lot of credits I could use for that degree. In 3 years I turned a 2.0 into a 2.8 taking very science heavy 18 credit hour semesters. My problem is I have 178 Undergraduate Credit Hours!!!! It will take more than a couple classes to raise that GPA.

-Should I do an accelerated MPH Masters offered from my local Medical School, an SMP at my local D.O., healthcare job, stick with teaching, etc?


Thank you everyone for the help and support.

 

[sacapuntas]

Now take all I say with a grain of salt as I am new to the game...


I think you do need to apply far more broadly. From what I have understood from other applicants, they are surprised at who lets them and and who has not interested, often getting interviews 'out of their reach' and nothing from those below them.

With your GPA I would assume you should look at class replacement options at DO schools. You obviously have an excellent MCAT and EC's, so it must be your GPA that is holding you back. If you are willing to move anywhere, do a few class replacements and get rid of C's or D's until your GPA is above 3.1, and apply to a bunch of DO schools.

I don't see how you couldn't get into a DO school if you do well at interviews and get your GPA up some.

Good luck to you!

 

[KING3]

OP, I know your exact situation, and you need to apply to more schools. Give yourself some credit you have worked to improve your record. Apply to more schools that are friendly to OOS applicants. I don't think you need to go the DO route just yet. Pick schools like SLU and Creighton and New York medical college. You would get an interview there for sure.
Remember schools see where you apply and don't put all your beans in one bucket. Good luck.

 

[Ehtar Moriarty]

OP, I know your exact situation, and you need to apply to more schools. Give yourself some credit you have worked to improve your record. Apply to more schools that are friendly to OOS applicants. I don't think you need to go the DO route just yet. Pick schools like SLU and Creighton and New York medical college. You would get an interview there for sure.
Remember schools see where you apply and don't put all your beans in one bucket. Good luck.

I'm looking at New York Medical College, considering it is a catholic school, would it help that I'm Catholic, teach at a catholic High school and do volunteer work through the church?

 

[Ehtar Moriarty]

Give yourself some credit you have worked to improve your record.

Thats what my wife keeps saying 🙂

 

[KING3]

To be honest im not sure being catholic will really help you that much. But I would talk up your research experience and your masters work. I did that in my interviews and secondaries and it worked great. Have a reason for your undergrad grades, not and excuse and how you have learned from it. Also use your research and masters to diversify you from other candidates.

 

[MetabolismASE]

You need to apply to at least 15 schools if your stats are above average

 

[jweezy225]

the problem is MOST DEFINITELY the lack of a broad application to schools. statistically, you're killing your odds by only applying to 1-2 schools each cycle. some medical schools (e.g. Einstein) don't like to see an applicant that has been through the application cycle more than three times (or maybe it's that they don't want to see that you've applied to their school more than 3 times).

from my experience, the first time I applied, I applied to about 10 schools and got two invites/no acceptances. my second time around, I did about 22 schools (finished 17) and got 4 invites/2 acceptances. even with all the randomness surrounding medical school admissions, I have no doubt in my mind that applying more broadly (and more targeted to my stats) helped my the second time!

with some schools, I think you'll be just fine if you apply again more broadly. like KING3 said, you still have a chance with an M.D. program!

 

[ronathan]

Ethar, I would say that taking more undergraduate classes is probably not worth your time. Any mediocre grades that you may have gotten as an undergrad should be erased by the fact that you have a graduate degree (in the sciences, no less) in which you took advanced versions of all of those same classes, and graduated with a 3.6 GPA. So I would agree that your lack of success is probably due to simply not applying to enough schools. I know it sucks, but even the very best applicants usually only get accepted to 2-3 schools out of a pool of 15-20 (on average). You actually sound like a very ideal candidate, and if you just widened your application pool, I think you'll find that you will have a lot more love from the schools.

That being said, be smart about the schools that you apply to. I don't know specifically what your interests are, or what you want to specialize in after med school. But based on your experience, if you want to make a case that you are qualified for becoming a physician/researcher, don't bother applying to schools that are more concerned with churning out primary care doctors and don't emphasize research as much. It's not uncommon for some schools to reject highly qualified candidates because they make noises about being a different kind of doctor than what the school wants to train.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

You have been through a lot with regards to grade improvement and you should be commended. However, I think that you know the answer, which is your application to only a very few number of schools. Have you called the schools you applied to and discussed your application with the admissions people?

If not, that may be a good start. The next step would be to put your credentials in order. Make sure that you are not getting poor letters of recommendation or ones that are just generic. Compare your credentials with the average of the people matriculating at the various schools you are interested in.

Finally, since you are in Arizona, you may want to consider going to the Old Pre Meds conference in Las Vegas. There will be a lot of information regarding getting into and succeeding in medical school as well as there will be a number of schools you can discuss your situation with. (www.oldpremeds.com).

Good luck

 

[Ehtar Moriarty]

You have been through a lot with regards to grade improvement and you should be commended. However, I think that you know the answer, which is your application to only a very few number of schools. Have you called the schools you applied to and discussed your application with the admissions people?

If not, that may be a good start. The next step would be to put your credentials in order. Make sure that you are not getting poor letters of recommendation or ones that are just generic. Compare your credentials with the average of the people matriculating at the various schools you are interested in.

Finally, since you are in Arizona, you may want to consider going to the Old Pre Meds conference in Las Vegas. There will be a lot of information regarding getting into and succeeding in medical school as well as there will be a number of schools you can discuss your situation with. (www.oldpremeds.com).

Good luck

I have contacted U of A and they DO NOT do individual file reviews anymore. They send you a generic "How to improve your application" powerpoint. A few years back I did get a "File Review". My Graduate Advisor used to teach at U of A and called to ask what was wrong with my application. He was told, "Lack of Clinical Experience" and that they would like to see me "complete a program of study with a high GPA". 2 and a half years later I finished an M.S. in Molecular and Cellular Biology with a 3.6, 35N MCAT, and additional , but that much, clinical experience. They rejected me last month. I agree with you I have to apply to more schools, but I figured heeding their advice and being persistent would be rewarded, guess not.
I agree about applying to more schools and I am planning on applying to 30 MD and 5 D.O. next cycle. In addition I am applying to a couple SMP programs. I may be able to get in without an SMP, but I want to hedge my bets. I am aware of the risk of taking an SMP, but I am POSITIVE I will excel in the Medical School coursework.
How can I find out which letters are strong and which are weak? I thought I wasn't allowed to see my letters?
Thank you for you time and responses everybody. I hope that anyone in a similar spot is getting useful information out of this thread as well.

 

[ronathan]

Frankly, I'm going to have to disagree with EMT2-ERDOC on the issue of letters of recommendation, and I'll tell you why. My parents are both Ph.D's. I've been working in various labs since I was in high school, and finally, I, like you, got a Master's Degree after working in a small-ish graduate program in which the professors and graduate students work in a very professional, collegiate manner. What all of this means is that I have had lots of experience being around folks who spend a lot of time writing letter of recommendation. What I've learned from all of this experience is that it's actually very rare for a professor to write a bad recommendation for a student, despite all of the rumors and urban legends on the topic.

When a professor writes a letter of recommendation, they are staking their own reputation on the fact that the person they are recommending is in fact a good candidate for the program that they are applying too. The fact of the matter is that the letter is supposed to be a letter of RECOMMENDATION. It stands to reason that the schools are expecting any letter writer to actually recommend you for their program, not say nasty things about you behind your back. If the prof really doesn't have a good opinion of you, it's the prof's responsibility to tell you that, for whatever reason, they are just not comfortable recommending you to a school/program/internship/whatever. And it's actually in the professor's own interest to do that- the last thing a professor wants is a reputation as a person who is willing to throw students under the bus in that manner. It makes the academic community skeptical about anything the prof has to say about a student they actually like. Conversely, it would be against the professor's interest to write a positive letter about a student that they know won't, in reality, be able to cut it in medical school. A good reputation is a valuable commodity in the academic community, and once it's tarnished it's very hard to recapture. So, to make a long story short, I would be very surprised if the people who wrote you letters were actually writing anything short of a glowing review of you. It would not only be a waste of time for them to do otherwise (rather than just tell you "no"), it would actually be damaging to their own careers.

 

[NontradICUdoc]

Frankly, I'm going to have to disagree with EMT2-ERDOC on the issue of letters of recommendation, and I'll tell you why. My parents are both Ph.D's. I've been working in various labs since I was in high school, and finally, I, like you, got a Master's Degree after working in a small-ish graduate program in which the professors and graduate students work in a very professional, collegiate manner. What all of this means is that I have had lots of experience being around folks who spend a lot of time writing letter of recommendation. What I've learned from all of this experience is that it's actually very rare for a professor to write a bad recommendation for a student, despite all of the rumors and urban legends on the topic.

When a professor writes a letter of recommendation, they are staking their own reputation on the fact that the person they are recommending is in fact a good candidate for the program that they are applying too. The fact of the matter is that the letter is supposed to be a letter of RECOMMENDATION. It stands to reason that the schools are expecting any letter writer to actually recommend you for their program, not say nasty things about you behind your back. If the prof really doesn't have a good opinion of you, it's the prof's responsibility to tell you that, for whatever reason, they are just not comfortable recommending you to a school/program/internship/whatever. And it's actually in the professor's own interest to do that- the last thing a professor wants is a reputation as a person who is willing to throw students under the bus in that manner. It makes the academic community skeptical about anything the prof has to say about a student they actually like. Conversely, it would be against the professor's interest to write a positive letter about a student that they know won't, in reality, be able to cut it in medical school. A good reputation is a valuable commodity in the academic community, and once it's tarnished it's very hard to recapture. So, to make a long story short, I would be very surprised if the people who wrote you letters were actually writing anything short of a glowing review of you. It would not only be a waste of time for them to do otherwise (rather than just tell you "no"), it would actually be damaging to their own careers.

There have been instances where a professor will write a letter that is quite negative. Discussing the rude behavior of a student and the personality issues that the student may have. I have seen these letters.

In addition, you have the generic letter that states "Fred was in my physics class. He scored well on his exams and was in the top 10% for the year. He would make an excellent medical student"

Again, I have seen these. They tell the adcoms nothing about you as a person. These are the letters I am talking about.

 

[Ehtar Moriarty]

There have been instances where a professor will write a letter that is quite negative. Discussing the rude behavior of a student and the personality issues that the student may have. I have seen these letters.

In addition, you have the generic letter that states "Fred was in my physics class. He scored well on his exams and was in the top 10% for the year. He would make an excellent medical student"

Again, I have seen these. They tell the adcoms nothing about you as a person. These are the letters I am talking about.

Scary.......................... I am pretty sure who wrote the very flat non-dscriptive ones. However, I hope there is no sabotage the midst!!!!