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any chance at all for residency?

Discussion in 'Otolaryngology' started by vman, Mar 14, 2007.

  1. vman

    vman New Member
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    I just wanted some quick feedback.

    At a top 10 school
    Preclinics- a few High Passes and a few passes
    Clinics have mostly been passes
    Step I 226
    Some clinical research/case reports in ENT
    Previous grad school research in engineering.

    Any chance at all?
     
  2. velocityjones

    velocityjones Junior Member
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    Here is one of many opinions you will find.
    For what it is worth, I matched this week - will find out in a matter of hours where.
    To compare your stats and mine:
    I'm not at a top 10 school....I'm at a school nobody has heard of.
    Preclinics were all pass (my school only has pass/fail....they got rid of the High Pass stuff)
    Clinicals were all pass - same reason as above
    Step I 231
    I have some research - some in basic science, some currently in ENT with 2-3publications within the year hopefully.
    And finally, no ENT program at my school.
    It can be done if you work hard and smart. If you want it badly enough you will get in somewhere. I just had to be willing to move outside my geographic comfort zone.

    Best of luck....looks like you already have more luck than I did when I was in your place!
     
  3. resxn

    10+ Year Member

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    One thing to remember is for how hard everyone makes it sound to get into ENT, it's not impossible. For every 260 that gets in, there is a 220 that gets in to balance the average. For every person with 3 publications, there are at least 2 with none. So even though everyone talks about the god-like numbers that apply, there are lowly people like myself who match in order to make the average what it is.

    If you want ENT, work your can off and you'll probably make it. I never claimed to be smarter than anyone in my med school class, but I was dang sure no one could be said to have worked harder.

    As cheesey as it sounds, hard work and persistence (sans the obnoxiousness) is usually recognized and pays off especially in residency.
     
  4. aggernodi

    aggernodi Private Practice ENT
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    Hard work definitely will get noticed more than scores and grades. There are the "excellent" students who will get honors rotating through ENT, but then there are the "superstars". You need to be a superstar. What does that mean exactly?

    I will give the 2 most recent medical student superstars that I can recall during my time in residency (and there were only 2)... All matched BTW...

    These students I swear lived in the hospital and always had a positive attitude and never complained. They never said they couldn't do something when asked to do something...in fact they would constantly ask what more they could do to help. NO task was beneath them to do... blood draws? cultures? dressing changes? need food from the cafeteria? references from the library? They NEVER went home before the intern and resident either... in fact, they stayed longer as even when they were up all night on-call, they stayed all day the following day scrubbed in on cases and went home after evening rounds. 80 hour work weeks did not apply to them.

    They volunteered and rounded on EVERY SINGLE patient on the service with notes in the chart by morning rounds in ENT. If possible, they even tried to do the same for afternoon rounds on every single patient. The patients and soon even the nurses would start treating these medical students like interns. These students were absolutely trustworthy.

    Also... these medical students NEVER "disappeared". We always knew where they were and what they were doing. They always kept us informed on what's going on.

    What happened towards the end for these particular students?

    They started being first assistant and even primary surgeon in surgical cases. Some of the attendings even requested the resident/intern step aside and would do the case with the student. Both the students ended up being co-authors on papers written during their clerkships (residents offered and of course they accepted eagerly). During interview time period, we would ask what their top 5 programs were and give this info to our chairman to call those program's chairman to vouch for them.

    They were truly superstars. That's not to say that you have to do everything these students did to get into ENT, but when someone works that hard, the question doesn't become if they get into a ENT program, but which program will they get into.
     
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  5. resxn

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    I second everything agger said. In fact, I'd go so far to say that it is the superstars that really (and obviously) stand out. Those are they students for whom residents and attendings go out of their way to help. Those are the students who residents rave about when programs consider taking SubI's or students from their own school.

    It's the excellent students, that one-tier step-off, that tends to find themselves washed in among the average. Most ENT applicants are excellent students, but not all excel as a SubI. That's why I say in other posts it's more likely for a SubI to hurt you than help you, because like Agger's experience I'd say we had maybe 2-3 superstars as well the during my residency of the 15 or so SubI's that rotated through our program while I was there.

    Our residents really went to work promoting those superstars. When we were asked about the excellent students, the responses were more average. "Yeah, he/she's good, but. . ."

    Let me tell you about the worst SubI we ever had. A Canadian medical student.

    Week #1 - on rounds with our rhinologist. He's seeing a patient with allergic fungal sinusitis that he wants about 10 more days of medical treatment on before taking to the OR. The SubI, in the room and in front of the patient, says, "Isn't AFS best treated with aggressive debridement followed by medical therapy rather than vice versa." Obviously, questioning the attending in front of the pt is not the smartest move. The attending, with the patience of Job, then explains his rationale for this particular case. Again, the SubI challenges him with "But that's not what Dr. Marple does and he's one of the leaders in this disease." Our attending was good friends with Dr. Marple and tells the SubI to get out of the room, apologizes to the patient, goes outside, and rips the kid to shreds.

    But he didn't back down.

    Week #2 - rotates with me at the Children's Hospital because the University Team was ready to kill him. I'm the chief. That's our busiest rotation. Day started at 5AM and ended at 7Pm on good days. 80 hour work weeks were not yet in effect. I've got a wife and 2 kids and all I want to do is get home to see them before they go to bed. SubI guy makes comments throughout the day that he didn't rent a car and isn't sure how to get back to his cousin's house with whom he's staying for the month. He follows me out to my car and stands at my car assuming I'm going to give him a ride even home even though he never asked. He never called his cousin for a ride even though it's 8PM. He pulls this tactic 3 nights in a row until I tell him to take off.

    Keeps telling me the whole week how he's put in over 8 sets of tubes and really is ready to do some here. Attending allows him the opportunity and proceeds to make a myringotomy 50% of the length of the TM in a radial direction--exactly opposite of everything the attending was telling him. Then tells the attending, "Well, that's how we do it at my school." Attending beats the crap out of him.

    Week #3 - debates (uninvited) with an attending about radiation vs primary surgical intervention for a tonsillar cancer in front of the patient

    Week #4 - ostracized from every resident and most services, he is relegated to following the medical allergist around.

    He continually just makes stuff up when asked a question he doesn't know the answer to.

    He was simply stunning.

    Don't be that guy. Worst part, I saw him in Toronto at the Academy meeting this year with a badge on that said "resident." So he got in somewhere. Scary.
     
  6. JosephFaecesMD

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    :eek:
     
  7. RS6

    RS6 Junior Member
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    Nothing against Canadians but that is an amazing story.
     

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