M

Mte123

Okay, I scored AA 22 and TS 22 with a PA 19. I have a 3.97 GPA. I am a psych major with a chem minor and some research.

The way this past cycle worked out, I just got into NYU dental school. The vibe that I'm getting is that NYU isnt the most respected dental school. I also know that its going to cost me a fortune.

Should I got? Or should I take a year off and apply to some other schools for next year? If yes, where should I apply that would be save me money?

Help?​
 

Avery07

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Okay, I scored AA 22 and TS 22 with a PA 19. I have a 3.97 GPA. I am a psych major with a chem minor and some research.

The way this past cycle worked out, I just got into NYU dental school. The vibe that I'm getting is that NYU isnt the most respected dental school. I also know that its going to cost me a fortune.

Should I got? Or should I take a year off and apply to some other schools for next year? If yes, where should I apply that would be save me money?

Help?​
I'm looking at NYU for the next cycle and am curious as to why it is any less of a school?
 
M

Mte123

Okay, I scored AA 22 and TS 22 with a PA 19. I have a 3.97 GPA. I am a psych major with a chem minor and some research.

The way this past cycle worked out, I just got into NYU dental school. The vibe that I'm getting is that NYU isnt the most respected dental school. I also know that its going to cost me a fortune.

Should I got? Or should I take a year off and apply to some other schools for next year? If yes, where should I apply that would be save me money?

Help?​
 
M

Mte123

I'm looking at NYU for the next cycle and am curious as to why it is any less of a school?
The class has 250 and then goes up to 450. They also accept 700 people for the 250 person class, meaning they expect 1 of 3 accepted not to show up. Also, HOW DO YOU PAY OFF 400,000 dollars in loans?
 
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Avery07

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I was talking to the dean of case and he asked me where I applied to which I responded "just case and nyu." He then made a face and said, yeah, not a good idea. The class also has 250 and then goes up to 450. They also accept 700 people for the 250 person class, meaning they expect 1 of 3 accepted not to show up. Also, HOW DO YOU PAY OFF 400,000 dollars in loans?
Just because it is a large class doesn't mean that it's a bad school. I suggest you do more research.

Yes, the class does go up but from my understanding, these are something like advanced placement international dentists or something of the sort. I think there is a lot of knowledge you could learn from them. Also the diversity within your class may provide you with a lot of unique opportunities you might not have otherwise had.

I'm assuming people don't show because of the $$. My solution to that would be HPSP and it's not $400k. Try $280k tuition. If you want to live in style through dental school than you can ride off with that $400k debt but I suggest not. HPSP would pay your tuition in whole plus provide a $1,900 stipend each month so you can actually live nicely in NYC while obtaining $0 financial debt.

I guess it's all how you perceive a situation. I see NYU as a great opportunity for a unique dental education.
 
M

Mte123

HPSP as in spending 4 years after dental school in the airforce? Not starting your practice? 4 years on a base somewhere? any other suggestions?
 

Avery07

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HPSP as in spending 4 years after dental school in the airforce? Not starting your practice? 4 years on a base somewhere? any other suggestions?
Well I'm assuming you didn't make it into Case so where you sit right now you're out a year if you decline NYU.

HPSP Provides:

$250k in tuition, books, and insurance for NYU
$95k in living stipends
$20k signing bonus
$300k for four years service (~75k/yr)

Total: $665,000

Dived over 4 years = $165k/year of service


I think people are mad for turning something like this down if you go to an expensive school. Obviously it isn't as lucritive for your state school but in the situation of NYU it is.

If you can honestly tell me that you would be in a better position four years out of dental school if you did it on your own than if you took the HPSP, than I will shut my mouth. If you make that assumption though, you're lying to yourself and you know it. No one said the military would be fun but sitting in $400k in debt plus all the excess debt from house, practice, etc.. that's not too great either. I'd rather be 4 years out, debt free, and have a nice chunk of change to start a practice -- but that's just me I guess.
 
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I'm really curious (not being sarcastic at all). Why just NYU and case? Why didn't you apply to cheaper schools? I just cannot get over it. You have such good stats, why only two schools?
 
M

Mte123

I'm a psych major so I don't have the requirements for OSU. I wasn't expecting to get in anywhere, my first dats were 17s. Case is by my house and I have family in ny. Stony brook has the highest dat reqs and I didnt even consider Columbia. Is it that much cheaper? What are cheaper skills that I dont have to go across the country or live in some state like oklahoma or west virginia (or pittsburgh)? It might be worth the year if there was a school that was so much cheaper. I think nyu and case are both like 55,000. The killer is the living cost at nyu

Where do they send dentists for the airforce?
 
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I'm a psych major so I don't have the requirements for OSU. I wasn't expecting to get in anywhere, my first dats were 17s. Case is by my house and I have family in ny. Stony brook has the highest dat reqs and I didnt even consider Columbia. Is it that much cheaper? What are cheaper skills that I dont have to go across the country or live in some state like oklahoma or west virginia (or pittsburgh)? It might be worth the year if there was a school that was so much cheaper. I think nyu and case are both like 55,000. The killer is the living cost at nyu

Where do they send dentists for the airforce?
case and nyu have a very similar tuition cost. nyu you can cut down ur living expenses, you could find a place for like 1000 bucks a month maybe close to the school. at case, you'd do maybe like 400 a month, but you would probablly need a car in cleveland (add in insurance, gas, maintenance etc). cost of living woudl be at most like 5-6K more a yr if you do it on a budget. thats around 24K overall more in cost, which is not that much more over a lifetime. ur monthly payment btw case and nyu would not be THAT much different (as long as you consolidate your loans and get a nice % rate). just make sure you go to a rural area afterward to make good money for a few yrs to pay your loans off.
 

Avery07

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Is that HPSP scholarship still available?
I believe that there are still army & navy spots open. I'd do some research in the military dentistry forum. I have limited knowledge on the program.


I'm a psych major so I don't have the requirements for OSU. I wasn't expecting to get in anywhere, my first dats were 17s. Case is by my house and I have family in ny. Stony brook has the highest dat reqs and I didnt even consider Columbia. Is it that much cheaper? What are cheaper skills that I dont have to go across the country or live in some state like oklahoma or west virginia (or pittsburgh)? It might be worth the year if there was a school that was so much cheaper. I think nyu and case are both like 55,000. The killer is the living cost at nyu

Where do they send dentists for the airforce?
I'm not sure about this. I'd ask this in the military dentistry forum too. I do however know that there are only 5 HPSPs for the air force and the competition is almost as if you're applying to dental school all over again.

The army and navy both have a large number of initial availabilities for this program.
 
M

Mte123

Okay, that's helpful. So its not worth wasting the year to try to get into Case. Should I wait another year and take the risk to get into Columbia or Stony Brook? Would I save any money that way? What is the average amount of debt for a dental student? And how long does it take to pay that off??? I really wish I had some friends going to dental school.
 
M

Mte123

The kaplan course through me off. I thought it would prepare me. Second time I sat down with the kaplan book and went through it twice, highlighting pretty much every sentence. Twice.

BUT COULD WE STAY ON TOPIC?
 

Avery07

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The kaplan course through me off. I thought it would prepare me. Second time I sat down with the kaplan book and went through it twice, highlighting pretty much every sentence. Twice.

BUT COULD WE STAY ON TOPIC?
That seems to be a common occurrence with the Kaplan course. Sorry for the diversion.

What is it that you don't like about HPSP? I mean in all honesty it is a nice deal and it's hard to argue with that. Especially if you're single. But I'm assuming you're not and this is why you're worried about getting stuck somewhere desolate in the US or in a sand pit across the world, no?

If you're single, it's a steal but the family thing puts it in a new perspective. For the single guys and gals out there it keeps you out of debt and gives a chance to get some nice skills down while experiencing some once in a lifetime opportunities. So long as I stay out of the family business, I would love the chance to go to the middle east for a year. Think of all that money you can save to get home and blow on a new office.

Then there are those of us who will net $200k out of school but this is a small number. Most will probably struggle to net $100k straight out of school and on top of that have all their loans and a new family, etc. It will be a rough start but this is the case for both situations. It's all about sacrifice.

You're in right now. I wouldn't chance it and reapply next year. If you do private practice, you can assume that year will cost you at least 100k net. That does a number on your loans. It might just level out the field to what you would have paid elsewhere but then what if you don't get into a cheaper program next year? Then you're out that one year's salary plus another year behind in school. You have a lot to think about.. Best of luck sorting through the situation.
 

Angle Jr.

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I would personally recommend attending NYUCD rather than taking a year off. I was once in a similar situation. Since I applied really late in the application cycle, my "top choice" schools had their class and waitlist already filled, but I got accepted at NYUCD. I chose to attend NYUCD, and I can say that it was the best decision I made in my life.

First, spending another year as a pre-dent means a loss of over $100k of income as a dentist. Second, while it may be true that NYUCD was a mediocre dental school just until several years ago, the school is now recognized as one of the most respected dental schools in the nation, after the transformation the school went through under the deanship of Dr. Michael Alfano. NYUCD's didactic and clinical education are definitely top-notch. Our current Dean Dr. Charles Bertolami is truly an exceptional leader, who is attracting distinguished dental educators and researchers from around the nation. If you check out NYUCD's website, you will notice that many of our faculties and students are being awarded very prestigious research awards. In this coming July, Dr. Brian Schmidt will be joining NYUCD as the Director of the Bluestone Center for Clinical Research.

I am very much grateful to NYUCD for the wonderful educational experience I have had in the past 4 years. I can say that most of the negative things ever written on SDN about NYUCD no longer apply to today's NYUCD. It would be difficult to find a dental school that offers better clinical education and more research opportunities than NYUCD.

I hope this helps. Best of luck with your decision.
 
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I would personally recommend attending NYUCD rather than taking a year off. I was once in a similar situation. Since I applied really late in the application cycle, my "top choice" schools had their class and waitlist already filled, but I got accepted at NYUCD. I chose to attend NYUCD, and I can say that it was the best decision I made in my life.

First, spending another year as a pre-dent means a loss of over $100k of income as a dentist. Second, while it may be true that NYUCD was a mediocre dental school just until several years ago, the school is now recognized as one of the most respected dental schools in the nation, after the transformation the school went through under the deanship of Dr. Michael Alfano. NYUCD's didactic and clinical education are definitely top-notch. Our current Dean Dr. Charles Bertolami is truly an exceptional leader, who is attracting distinguished dental educators and researchers from around the nation. If you check out NYUCD's website, you will notice that many of our faculties and students are being awarded very prestigious research awards. In this coming July, Dr. Brian Schmidt will be joining NYUCD as the Director of the Bluestone Center for Clinical Research.

I am very much grateful to NYUCD for the wonderful educational experience I have had in the past 4 years. I can say that most of the negative things ever written on SDN about NYUCD no longer apply to today's NYUCD. It would be difficult to find a dental school that offers better clinical education and more research opportunities than NYUCD.

I hope this helps. Best of luck with your decision.
:thumbup: Good post, spoken through experience.
 
M

Mte123

:thumbup: Good post, spoken through experience.
Sounds more like she works there.

Anyway, if you, the nyu student are still there, how much do you have in loans, if you dont mind me asking. and where did u find to live that didnt cost 2000 dollars a month?
 
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I would personally recommend attending NYUCD rather than taking a year off. I was once in a similar situation. Since I applied really late in the application cycle, my "top choice" schools had their class and waitlist already filled, but I got accepted at NYUCD. I chose to attend NYUCD, and I can say that it was the best decision I made in my life.

First, spending another year as a pre-dent means a loss of over $100k of income as a dentist. Second, while it may be true that NYUCD was a mediocre dental school just until several years ago, the school is now recognized as one of the most respected dental schools in the nation, after the transformation the school went through under the deanship of Dr. Michael Alfano. NYUCD's didactic and clinical education are definitely top-notch. Our current Dean Dr. Charles Bertolami is truly an exceptional leader, who is attracting distinguished dental educators and researchers from around the nation. If you check out NYUCD's website, you will notice that many of our faculties and students are being awarded very prestigious research awards. In this coming July, Dr. Brian Schmidt will be joining NYUCD as the Director of the Bluestone Center for Clinical Research.

I am very much grateful to NYUCD for the wonderful educational experience I have had in the past 4 years. I can say that most of the negative things ever written on SDN about NYUCD no longer apply to today's NYUCD. It would be difficult to find a dental school that offers better clinical education and more research opportunities than NYUCD.

I hope this helps. Best of luck with your decision.
You didn't mention how they work you like mules to earn money for the school. Tell us about PMV.
 
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i would def go to NYU THIS YR

you're not garunteed anything next yr
and you got into NYU!!!its nto a BAD school, but other schools are better

think about it like this---if you go, yes your paying a lot of tuition but you will be working for an extra yr and making lets say 120k (ish). . .

dnt give up this opportunity bec you'll be so freakin pissed when you find yourself enrolled the following yr at NYU

but its your decision
 

DrDDSman

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Although its not guaranteed that you will get in next year, its safe to say you will with those stats (assuming you apply on time and to more schools). Its up to you.
 
M

Mte123

Although its not guaranteed that you will get in next year, its safe to say you will with those stats (assuming you apply on time and to more schools). Its up to you.
But I live in Ohio and I don't have all of the bio's that are required at OSU. Where else would I apply that would save me significant money?
 

coralteeth

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But I live in Ohio and I don't have all of the bio's that are required at OSU. Where else would I apply that would save me significant money?
OP, you're SOL if you want cheap tuition. cheap tuition means in-state somewhere, and you're only in-state in ohio. if you refuse to fulfill OSU's pre-reqs, then you have to go somewhere else and that somewhere else is pretty much all private schools. dental school is expensive. just go to nyu. if you reapply for next year, how do you know you'll get in somewhere else? there are no guarantees in life. maybe you can go to nyu for D1 and then transfer to OSU for your remaining education. who knows??
 

llungu

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You are the op, and SOL is **** out of luck. I too think you should go to NYU. Be a dentist one year sooner and start making money to pay off your loans.
 
M

Mte123

You are the op, and SOL is **** out of luck. I too think you should go to NYU. Be a dentist one year sooner and start making money to pay off your loans.
The issue is that I could take a year off, get into a dental school that is 100 or 200 thousand dollars less, and then save that money. 200,000 turns into 500,000. No?
 
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The issue is that I could take a year off, get into a dental school that is 100 or 200 thousand dollars less, and then save that money. 200,000 turns into 500,000. No?
OSU is around 200K. That is IF you take their pre reqs then you have a shot at applying to their school. NYU would run you around 350K IF you do it on a budget (and don't be an idiot and get a place that is 2000+ a month). I've run an NPV excel model on this before with my instate school vs a private and accounting for the year off with a 6% discount rate. The instate school would result in savings and you would have a higher NPV w/ the instate school, however, you don't have the pre reqs. If you do take the pre reqs for OSU, I think you have an excellent shot of getting in, but if you are not willing to do that, you won't find a cheaper school.

Also keep in mind that if you use a rate higher than 6% (ie. you are a savvy investor and can get more of a return with your money elsewhere) then your NPV w/ the more expensive school will be even greater.
 
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DrDDSman

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The issue is that I could take a year off, get into a dental school that is 100 or 200 thousand dollars less, and then save that money. 200,000 turns into 500,000. No?

Thats the idea. Exactly what courses are you missing for OSU? Alternatively, there are schools where you can establish residency after 1 year of living there (Temple comes to mind). You need to weigh the pros and cons. Will you be able to take the pre-reqs by next year? Maybe you can work at a dental clinic or do some research and boost your ECs
 

Angle Jr.

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Sounds more like she works there.

Anyway, if you, the nyu student are still there, how much do you have in loans, if you dont mind me asking. and where did u find to live that didnt cost 2000 dollars a month?
I don't want to disclose my loan situation here but I can tell you that at NYUCD you have many options as to where you can live.

Many of my classmates share a convertible 2BR apartment nearby school with a roommate. If you live in Waterside, for example, the rent for a convertible 2BR is around $2600 so it's about $1300 per person per month. There are also many other affordable options like Astoria, Newport, and Williamsburg.

As for PMV (one of the requirements you need to fulfill in clinic which is like your clinic production), you would not have any problem fulfilling the requirements so long as you keep yourself busy in clinic (i.e. have a patient in the chair every session). I think PMV is a good system and is working well. First, you can get a sense of what it is like to review your monthly production, evaluate what was the reason you had a low/high PMV for a particular month, and think about how you can improve your clinic performance in the future (e.g. decrease disappointments, use your chair time more effectively by coming to clinic thoroughly prepared, etc.). Second, the PMV system gives you freedom as to how you want to fulfill your clinic requirement. So long as you fulfill the minimum disciplinary requirement for each discipline (operative, fixed, endo, etc.), you can choose to do whatever you want to do to fulfill the remainder of your PMV requirement - you can do Invisalign, bleaching, and so on.

If I did not come to NYUCD, I may not have got into orthodontics residency by now. NYUCD offered me everything I needed for my future career. As Dr. Jahangiri says in this Virtual Tour, at NYUCD "a keen student can find their own custom blend of what they want to do."
http://www.nyu.edu/dental/tour/index.html

Good luck!
 
M

Mte123

I need biochemistry, microbiology, physiology, and 1 semester of phsyics. Right now, I need two semesters of physics but I can get the physics done in one summer as opposed to the other courses. Also, I don't spend too much money, not that kind of person. So if the difference between OSU and NYU is 150,000, maybe it makes sense to just go this year. Thats one more year to get a practice going, one year sooner to retire. That is if OSU is really 200,000 which I'm not so sure.

Does anybody know how nyu is viewed? I know patients don't care what dental school you go to, I dont know what any of the dentists i went to or that i shadowed even went to. But like if i go into endo and i'm looking for someone to take me on as an associate, is it going to make a difference? And how do other dental students look at you as an nyu dental student?
 
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Okay, that's helpful. So its not worth wasting the year to try to get into Case. Should I wait another year and take the risk to get into Columbia or Stony Brook? Would I save any money that way? What is the average amount of debt for a dental student? And how long does it take to pay that off??? I really wish I had some friends going to dental school.
If you are all about 'saving money' and seem to want to believe these bad stories about nyu, why did you waste money to apply to nyu if you were going to probably not go there?
 

DrDDSman

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I need biochemistry, microbiology, physiology, and 1 semester of phsyics. Right now, I need two semesters of physics but I can get the physics done in one summer as opposed to the other courses. Also, I don't spend too much money, not that kind of person. So if the difference between OSU and NYU is 150,000, maybe it makes sense to just go this year. Thats one more year to get a practice going, one year sooner to retire. That is if OSU is really 200,000 which I'm not so sure.

Does anybody know how nyu is viewed? I know patients don't care what dental school you go to, I dont know what any of the dentists i went to or that i shadowed even went to. But like if i go into endo and i'm looking for someone to take me on as an associate, is it going to make a difference? And how do other dental students look at you as an nyu dental student?
To get to endo, you'd need to do an endo residency, so the person hiring you as an associate wont really care where you got your dental degree from. They will be more interested in your endo residency and how good you are are doing those cases.
 

Kneecoal

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Does anybody know how nyu is viewed? I know patients don't care what dental school you go to, I dont know what any of the dentists i went to or that i shadowed even went to. But like if i go into endo and i'm looking for someone to take me on as an associate, is it going to make a difference? And how do other dental students look at you as an nyu dental student?
among many other dental schools/students, i get the sense that nyu is looked down upon. and yes, i think it is an easier school to get into than most. but amongst the general public, i can't tell you how many people who've found out that i'm going to be going to nyu in the fall go 'WOW.'

honestly, i'd rather have it that way :p and besides, you can't beat the sheer number of opportunities ny will have to offer you. it's just a matter of you making it happen.
 

baseballjunkie

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I would definitely not reapply and go to NYU. I have a friend that went there and wished they never graduated. They loved it.

Additionally, the tuition at Case is $321,872 and NYU is $313,718. These are cost of living and tuition estimates that I got from each school. Therefore, it looks like Case really is not cheaper than NYU anyway. Plus, NYU you'll have a great experience living in NYC.

Military is a great option if it is something that you are interested in. If you're in it just for the monetary compensation, then you'll hate it. If you're interested in serving your country while doing something you love in practicing dentistry, then you'll love military dentistry. If you're at all interested in Navy dentistry, then contact a recruiter and have them set you up with a MEDVIP trip. This is an expenses paid trip to San Diego to check out dentistry in the Navy, plus it's a great time.

If military is not your choice, then you can look into public service dentistry as a way to not pay the total cost of your education. Your options are:
1) Working in a low-income Community Health Clinic. This option under the National Health Service Corps will give you $50,000 tax free toward your loans for 2 years of service. You'll be paid by the CHC and make a decent living.
2) You can work in any dental job for the government (IHS, military, CHC, military civilian dentist, etc) for 10 years, and whatever you have left on your student loans is completely forgiven. This can also be combined with the 25 year income contingent plan, which will stretch your loans out to 25 years and your payment will never be more than 15% of your total family income. (Note: The new education act that Obama and Congress just enacted is trying to be changed to 10%). Depending on your family situation post graduation and lets say you start out at 100k a year, you'll be paying ~$1400/month for 10 years. (~$140,000) Note, these are rough estimates and don't factor in a lot of things (i.e. inflation, tuition rate increases each year, etc). You can more accurately track your situation at: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/icr.phtml

Make no doubt, dental school anywhere is expensive. But if you're willing to consider other routes besides just private practice, then you'll not be paying that full tuition bill. These are just some things to consider. Just remember that no matter where you go, you're gonna have Dr. in front of your name and you'll be able to practice dentistry.
 
Aug 8, 2009
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I don't want to disclose my loan situation here but I can tell you that at NYUCD you have many options as to where you can live.

Many of my classmates share a convertible 2BR apartment nearby school with a roommate. If you live in Waterside, for example, the rent for a convertible 2BR is around $2600 so it's about $1300 per person per month. There are also many other affordable options like Astoria, Newport, and Williamsburg.

As for PMV (one of the requirements you need to fulfill in clinic which is like your clinic production), you would not have any problem fulfilling the requirements so long as you keep yourself busy in clinic (i.e. have a patient in the chair every session). I think PMV is a good system and is working well. First, you can get a sense of what it is like to review your monthly production, evaluate what was the reason you had a low/high PMV for a particular month, and think about how you can improve your clinic performance in the future (e.g. decrease disappointments, use your chair time more effectively by coming to clinic thoroughly prepared, etc.). Second, the PMV system gives you freedom as to how you want to fulfill your clinic requirement. So long as you fulfill the minimum disciplinary requirement for each discipline (operative, fixed, endo, etc.), you can choose to do whatever you want to do to fulfill the remainder of your PMV requirement - you can do Invisalign, bleaching, and so on.

If I did not come to NYUCD, I may not have got into orthodontics residency by now. NYUCD offered me everything I needed for my future career. As Dr. Jahangiri says in this Virtual Tour, at NYUCD "a keen student can find their own custom blend of what they want to do."
http://www.nyu.edu/dental/tour/index.html

Good luck!

what does PMV stand for?

Also, my interviewer said that a recent statistic he read was that the average payoff time of their students loan was 7 years...I would take it with a grain of salt since he is an employee with the school...
 

Angle Jr.

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what does PMV stand for?
PMV stands for "Practice Model Values." PMV is essentially your clinic production (i.e. what your patients pay for the service you render). For example, if you start and finish an Invisalign case, you get $1200 PMV. You get $100 PMV for a Class III composite, $620 for a crown, $1860 for a 3-unit bridge, and so on. PMV is a pretty good indicator of how effective and how busy you are in clinic. You can run PMV reports online to review your daily, weekly, monthly PMV and so on, to evaluate your clinic performance. I think the PMV system prepares you well for the real world.
 
May 21, 2009
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Pre-Dental
I would definitely not reapply and go to NYU. I have a friend that went there and wished they never graduated. They loved it.

Additionally, the tuition at Case is $321,872 and NYU is $313,718. These are cost of living and tuition estimates that I got from each school. Therefore, it looks like Case really is not cheaper than NYU anyway. Plus, NYU you'll have a great experience living in NYC.

Military is a great option if it is something that you are interested in. If you're in it just for the monetary compensation, then you'll hate it. If you're interested in serving your country while doing something you love in practicing dentistry, then you'll love military dentistry. If you're at all interested in Navy dentistry, then contact a recruiter and have them set you up with a MEDVIP trip. This is an expenses paid trip to San Diego to check out dentistry in the Navy, plus it's a great time.

If military is not your choice, then you can look into public service dentistry as a way to not pay the total cost of your education. Your options are:
1) Working in a low-income Community Health Clinic. This option under the National Health Service Corps will give you $50,000 tax free toward your loans for 2 years of service. You'll be paid by the CHC and make a decent living.
2) You can work in any dental job for the government (IHS, military, CHC, military civilian dentist, etc) for 10 years, and whatever you have left on your student loans is completely forgiven. This can also be combined with the 25 year income contingent plan, which will stretch your loans out to 25 years and your payment will never be more than 15% of your total family income. (Note: The new education act that Obama and Congress just enacted is trying to be changed to 10%). Depending on your family situation post graduation and lets say you start out at 100k a year, you'll be paying ~$1400/month for 10 years. (~$140,000) Note, these are rough estimates and don't factor in a lot of things (i.e. inflation, tuition rate increases each year, etc). You can more accurately track your situation at: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/icr.phtml

Make no doubt, dental school anywhere is expensive. But if you're willing to consider other routes besides just private practice, then you'll not be paying that full tuition bill. These are just some things to consider. Just remember that no matter where you go, you're gonna have Dr. in front of your name and you'll be able to practice dentistry.

can one of you guys explain this to me? the whole 25 yr/10 yr thing. I don't think I quite understnad how to use that calculator.
 

artanis

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Apr 19, 2008
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Pre-Dental
PMV stands for "Practice Model Values." PMV is essentially your clinic production (i.e. what your patients pay for the service you render). For example, if you start and finish an Invisalign case, you get $1200 PMV. You get $100 PMV for a Class III composite, $620 for a crown, $1860 for a 3-unit bridge, and so on. PMV is a pretty good indicator of how effective and how busy you are in clinic. You can run PMV reports online to review your daily, weekly, monthly PMV and so on, to evaluate your clinic performance. I think the PMV system prepares you well for the real world.
Angle Jr, may I PM you?
 

baseballjunkie

5+ Year Member
Aug 17, 2009
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Dentist
can one of you guys explain this to me? the whole 25 yr/10 yr thing. I don't think I quite understnad how to use that calculator.
To make a long story short, you can extend your loan out to 25 years instead of 10 years. I believe it is called income contingent repayment. Under this plan, your maximum payment will be 15% of your total family income. Therefore, if you're single making 100k a year working in public service, then your max payment will be ~1400/month. However, what happens is whatever amount you would have paid in the 10 year repayment plan is added to your principal balance. So, if you would have been paying ~4000/month, that extra 2600/month is added to your principal balance.

Therefore, I don't really recommend this repayment option unless you are going to combine this with working in public service. http://www.finaid.org/loans/publicservice.phtml

SO, if you extend your loan out to 25 years to lower your monthly payment, and then work in public service for 10 years, whatever you owe after those 120 months of payments while working in public service is forgiven. No matter how much you owe, it is completely forgiven.

I got this information when on my USC interview. The only way to pay for USC is this way or military. They estimated their 4 year cost at $414,000 :laugh: what a joke...
 
Aug 29, 2006
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I am not really feeling all of this "advice" from other pre dents. Let's look at the facts:
Dental school is difficult, no matter where you go, some will find it more difficult than others.
Some people will love their school for giving them an opportunity, some will hate their school for a variety of reasons, good and bad. You can't please everyone.
NYU has graduated the most dentists of any school in the country. Some graduates are better than others. The same goes for all the other schools, it is just more apparent with NYU due to volume of grads.
NYU is expensive, always has been (NYUCD '83).
Given your lack of choices, I would not take a chance next year, I would go to NYU now. The type of dentist you become and the quality of treatment you provide will depend almost entirely on you. Dental school is a beginning which gives you only the basic tools to be a provider. The rest is up to you. Most top practitioners have gone through years of post doc training and CE courses. Very few superstars were D students the year before.
Having spent years interviewing D4's from schools across the country and running a GPR (we also have pedo, OMFS, and anesthesia) I can say with great sincerity that no one school produces a vastly superior product. Everyone has roughly the same basic skills and knowledge base. Sorry to disappoint.
 
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Mte123

I don't know about everybody else, but I was looking forward to pulling in between 450,000 and a 800,000 a year. I shadowed an endo that said on an easy year he pulled in 450,000 without overdoing it and even a general dentist that specialized in cosmetic dentistry that was pulling in over 700. All I seem to be seeing is hopes and dreams of 200,000. What is going on?
 
May 21, 2009
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I don't know about everybody else, but I was looking forward to pulling in between 450,000 and a 800,000 a year. I shadowed an endo that said on an easy year he pulled in 450,000 without overdoing it and even a general dentist that specialized in cosmetic dentistry that was pulling in over 700. All I seem to be seeing is hopes and dreams of 200,000. What is going on?
i would imagine alot of this is dependent on your area. i also thought that dentists made a ton till i came on this site. i still think its possible, but it will take a few years for you to hit your stride, plus it also depends on where you live. if you live in cali, forget about it. if you move to a thriving area that is still growing, and is not saturated with dentists, you can do very well for yourself. I think with endo you can definitely see 450K. I was talking to a family friend of mine who's friend is a GP, but only does endo cases, and he made about 600K last yr. the thing about dentistry is that it is very difficult to find numbers since it is all private practice. Also, the more associates you hire, the more revenue you get as well. if you have a huge practice that actually gets a lot of patients you will do well, but there are some ppl who want to live only in calif, or only in nyc, and in those areas with saturation you will not make much. also, keep in mind that endo has a fairly low overhead, so that lower amounts of revenue can bring in more income.
 
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Mte123

Yeah, no issue of living in New York or california for me. Looking for somewhere a little quieter. Should that affect my decision not to go to NYU? Does where you go to dental school affect where you practice at all?
 
Aug 29, 2006
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I would worry about getting into dental school and not how much money you will make. If money is all you want there are a lot easier and more lucrative ways than dentistry. Health care providers must initially want to help and treat strangers. The money comes way afterward.
 
Dec 20, 2009
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It really depends on what you want from a dental school. NYU will prepare you to be a great dentist but if you want a good shot at Ortho, NYU may not be the best place to be only because you are competing with so many people, whereas in a place like Harvard, where there are 35 students per class, you get more attention and assistance from the professors and school administration. I think you have to be a lot more mature at a place like NYU where they don't cater to you personally as they would at Harvard or Stony Brook. The students at Harvard told me that since it is Pass/Fail and everyone essentially succeeds upon graduation, the students hang out during the weekends and it is pretty hard to fail a class. I've heard of numerous students who have had to repeat classes at NYU.
 
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Mte123

Its very pretty that you put helping strangers before helping your wife, children, parents, and community. If you have none of those then I would agree, strangers are the way to go. But I'm pretty sure that providing for your family, and providing well for your family is a pretty big deal for most people. I would have to disagree with the "easier and more lucrative" ways of making money. Especially if you want to find your profession interesting and challenging. I am glad you were not my interviewer.

I know that NYU has a ranking system. I'm actually kind of interested in that. The question is, how do people on pass/fail systems get chosen for specializing?
 
May 21, 2009
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i would also disagree, there are no easy ways of making money (even drug dealing isn't an easy profession!). where you go to school shouldn't have an impact on where you can practice.

that being said, you should want to help ppl to be in dentistry, it does involve a lot of social interaction, and as long as you want to help people and don't have a major personality issue, you should be able to make good money. at nyu you should be able to specialize as long as you rank top 10% of the class (i hear this is what you need for ortho/omfs). keep in mind that harvard also takes in students of a higher caliber than nyu, esp in the past nyu has taken students of a very low caliber and thus would make sense with higher failing/drop out rates, but i do not think that is true anymore (last yr they had about a 3.47 and 20 DAT). from waht i understand nyu seems to be undergoing a transformation for the better, and is becoming a great institution for dental education.