PhD/PsyD Any current or former William James College PsyD students?

[stupidbabytruck]

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Im thinking about attending WJC to get my clinical psych PsyD but I have heard mixed things about the quality of student/school from there. Are there any current or former WJC students that could tell me about their experience? Or if anyone has any experience with students coming out of WJC?

Obviously, the biggest concern is the price tag as people have warned me about, but I’ve only gotten into psyd programs that are unfunded and i wouldn’t want to wait another year to reapply.

Thanks in advance.


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[PsychNLife]

I have spoken with at least 2 students from my college who currently go to William James! They’ve both had positive things to say (quality courses, community and mentoring) but of course it depends on what you’re looking to get out of it! I’m very interested to see what other people have to say.

 

[PsychNLife]

I have spoken with at least 2 students from my college who currently go to William James! They’ve both had positive things to say (quality courses, community and mentoring) but of course it depends on what you’re looking to get out of it! I’m very interested to see what other people have to say.

(I should mention that I go to Brandeis university, which is a fairly reputable school, so I’d say that the alumni’s I know probably have good standards of quality)

 

[R. Matey]

Obviously, the biggest concern is the price tag as people have warned me about, but I’ve only gotten into psyd programs that are unfunded and i wouldn’t want to wait another year to reapply.

Is doing therapy your only goal? You can literally save thousands by making a decision to get a master's degree.

 

[stupidbabytruck]

Is doing therapy your only goal? You can literally save thousands by making a decision to get a master's degree.

I’m more interested in assessment which is why I’m getting the PsyD. If I could do strictly assessment work I would.


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[R. Matey]

I’m more interested in assessment which is why I’m getting the PsyD. If I could do strictly assessment work I would.


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What kind?

 

[psych.meout]

Clinical Psychology PsyD Program, PsyD vs. PhD - William James College

What are the advantages of a PsyD over a PhD? How does a PsyD differ from a PhD? Dispelling the PsyD myths.

www.williamjames.edu

Lol, the program literally has to lie about PhD programs to trick students into enrolling.

OP, run far, far away.

 

[PsychNLife]

Clinical Psychology PsyD Program, PsyD vs. PhD - William James College

What are the advantages of a PsyD over a PhD? How does a PsyD differ from a PhD? Dispelling the PsyD myths.

www.williamjames.edu

Lol, the program literally has to lie about PhD programs to trick students into enrolling.

OP, run far, far away.

Could you explain which part of that is a lie ?

 

[R. Matey]

Could you explain which part of that is a lie ?

This might be instructive. Ph.D. applicants for internship report the same or more amount of practicum hours in both intervention and assessment as Psy.D. applicants. So, the argument that Psy.Ds receive more clinical training isn't true if it's measured by actual hours spent doing direct service work. What's probably true is they do more coursework in clinical application. Whether or not that's necessary is another discussion.

Applicant Survey - 2015 - Part 3

Association of Psychology Postdoctoral and Internship Centers, Postdoc Interns, Psychology Internships, Psych Internship Matching - APPIC

www.appic.org

 

[PsychNLife]

This might be instructive. Ph.D. applicants for internship report the same or more amount of practicum hours in both intervention and assessment as Psy.D. applicants. So, the argument that Psy.Ds receive more clinical training isn't true. What's probably true is they do more coursework in clinical application. Whether or not that's necessary is another discussion.

Applicant Survey - 2015 - Part 3

Association of Psychology Postdoctoral and Internship Centers, Postdoc Interns, Psychology Internships, Psych Internship Matching - APPIC

www.appic.org

I know for a fact (from alumni) that practicum work starts at the first year there, and isn’t that untrue for most PhD programs ? I’m not trying to fight, just that does make it seem like there would in fact be more clinical hours at this program. Could just be specific to WJC though.

 

[ExpertHoopJumper]

I know for a fact (from alumni) that practicum work starts at the first year there, and isn’t that untrue for most PhD programs ? I’m not trying to fight, just that does make it seem like there would in fact be more clinical hours at this program. Could just be specific to WJC though.

You are mistaken. I attended a fully funded, research intensive PhD program and began clinical work with patients in my first semester of my first year. I have multiple friends and acquaintances who attended similar PhD programs in different parts of the country who also began clinical work in the first year. WJC is lying. It's a scam program.

 

[Psy3727]

I know for a fact (from alumni) that practicum work starts at the first year there, and isn’t that untrue for most PhD programs ? I’m not trying to fight, just that does make it seem like there would in fact be more clinical hours at this program. Could just be specific to WJC though.

I’m a PsyD student (not at any of these programs). I interviewed at both PhD and PsyD programs, and it was just as common for PhD students to start clinical work 1st year as it was PsyD students in my experience. Also at the end of the day, when you start practicum isn’t that important. Starting later might even be better because you’ll be more prepared with better foundational skills/knowledge. What’s important is the quality of those clinical experiences, which is usually reflected in APA internship match rate. Hope that helps!

 

[psych.meout]

Could you explain which part of that is a lie ?

Sure.

A second advantage of a PsyD program is the breadth, depth and focus in our clinical course work with required courses in areas such as: Clinical Health psychology, Supervision Skills, Advanced Treatment and Assessment, professional Clinical Psychology and Psychopharmacology. We also offer electives, which provide more in-depth coverage of specific disorders and types of treatment such as Personality Disorders, Anxiety Disorders, Schizophrenia, Cognitive and Constructivist Approaches to Treatment and Empirically Supported Interventions with Children and Adolescents.

The wording here implies that PhD programs aren't providing this clinical didactic training, which just isn't true.

A PsyD is a doctorate in Professional Psychology whereas a Clinical Psychology PhD is a doctorate degree in philosophy, with a specialization in Clinical Psychology.

This statement is false and incredibly misleadiing.

PhD programs are not philosophy programs focused on clinical psychology. They are science programs focused on training students to be both scientists and professional psychologists.

The primary difference between the two types of programs is that a PsyD program generally places greater emphasis on clinical training early in the program. In many cases a PhD program will have greater emphasis on research involvement than a PsyD program. For example, in most PhD programs in Clinical Psychology, a student would be expected to complete a Master’s research project as well as a doctoral research project dissertation. In most PsyD programs, students do only a doctoral level research project.

The implication here is that PsyD students are getting more and better clinical training in terms of quantity and quality, which, as others have pointed out, isn't true. It's also insinuating that research training is some how detracting or distracting from clinical training, instead of being synergistic.

The graduate student stipends are also sometimes greater in a PhD program than a PsyD program; often due to greater amounts of faculty grant money in research-oriented PhD programs.

Stipends are not just "sometimes" greater, but nearly always outside of PhD programs housed in diploma mills. Moreover, stipends and full funding (i.e., full tuition remission and a substantial stipend) are not simply the product of faculty grants. Rather, the university ensures that students are fully funded as a matter of course.

While called a doctoral project rather than dissertation, the length and quality of the doctoral projects completed by our students are very similar to dissertations produced by students in PhD programs. In fact, a number of our students have published articles stemming from their doctoral research projects. Thus, the emphasis on research at William James Colleges PsyD program is likely somewhat greater than other PsyD programs.

Then why call it something different than a "dissertation," which is the norm for the field. It's only like they're being deceptive with their language......

Experiential education is an intricate component of our program. All students are successfully placed in internship sites every year by our professional field placement office. APA-accredited Internship sites such as in V.A. medical centers, university medical centers, community mental health centers and consortiums are also available to our students if they choose. In addition, the majority of our students over the past several years have gotten offers at one of their top three Internship choices. Many Internship sites are looking for students with diverse clinical experience in both assessment and treatment.

This is deceptive in acting like getting an APA accredited internship is some kind of personal choice rather than conforming to the minimum standards of the field and acknowledging that not doing so will severely hinder one's job opportunities for their entire career. Notice how they don't acknowledge their use of a captive internship to game the match statistics.

Clinical PsyD Student Admissions, Outcomes, and Other Data at William James College

In one year, they went from only being able to match half their students to matching 100%. If you think that the quality of the program went up so precipitously in that one year, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[ClinicalABA]

Sure.


The wording here implies that PhD programs aren't providing this clinical didactic training, which just isn't true.



This statement is false and incredibly misleadiing.

PhD programs are not philosophy programs focused on clinical psychology. They are science programs focused on training students to be both scientists and professional psychologists.



The implication here is that PsyD students are getting more and better clinical training in terms of quantity and quality, which, as others have pointed out, isn't true. It's also insinuating that research training is some how detracting or distracting from clinical training, instead of being synergistic.



Stipends are not just "sometimes" greater, but nearly always outside of PhD programs housed in diploma mills. Moreover, stipends and full funding (i.e., full tuition remission and a substantial stipend) are not simply the product of faculty grants. Rather, the university ensures that students are fully funded as a matter of course.



Then why call it something different than a "dissertation," which is the norm for the field. It's only like they're being deceptive with their language......



This is deceptive in acting like getting an APA accredited internship is some kind of personal choice rather than conforming to the minimum standards of the field and acknowledging that not doing so will severely hinder one's job opportunities for their entire career. Notice how they don't acknowledge their use of a captive internship to game the match statistics.

Clinical PsyD Student Admissions, Outcomes, and Other Data at William James College

In one year, they went from only being able to match half their students to matching 100%. If you think that the quality of the program went up so precipitously in that one year, I have a bridge to sell you.

This is a very detailed, fact-based response. Anyone considering this program should read it, then read it again, and then ask themselves why any reputable program would place such misleading information on their website.

On this topic, be wary of anecdotal reports of “quality of training” coming from current or past students. Reason one- cognitive dissidence. Reason two- how exactly do they know if it’s quality training? What do they have to compare it to?

 

[R. Matey]

Yes, truly awesome! Nice work @psych.meout!

I'll add is that it's also deceptive of WJC to treat the fact that students from WJC get their top three choices for internship as an indicator of the quality of their training. More than half of all applicants to APPIC get one of their top three choices regardless of program they attended. The fact WJC had to add a captive internship to boost their match statistics is actually indicative of their true reputation in the field.

 

[MiniLop]

While not a current or former WJ student, I went to grad school in Boston and have known quite a few of them (at prac and such). I don't remember anyone being overly unhappy, but they consistently complained that they felt like the school was milking them for every penny they had. They also complained about the excessive amount of coursework, which they viewed as being a way to justify the exorbitant tuition they were paying. There was also a complaint that, when the APA took WJ to task for taking too many students, they began forcing students out of the program rather than accepting smaller cohorts. They also complained about the quality of some professors (though that's true for pretty much every grad student I've ever met).

Also, (and I think I've said this on other threads before) there was a huge variation in quality of students I met from there, from "really good" to "you shouldn't ever be allowed to see clients." It kind of spoke to the fact that they take pretty much anyone who can afford the tuition, and so there's no other barrier to acceptance that might weed out obvious red flag applicants.

 

[PhDenial]

Just wanted to say that in addition to the points @psych.meout raised, the general wording/verbiage used by WJC in that link is extremely suspicious and deceptive. I'm specifically referring to phrases such as "likely somewhat greater," "sometimes greater," etc. The claims they make should be backed with actual numbers and statistics rather than vague, misleading wording, just like doctoral programs are required to publish actual numbers when reporting licensure, attrition, internship placement, etc.

 

[niceman]

While not a current or former WJ student, I went to grad school in Boston and have known quite a few of them (at prac and such). I don't remember anyone being overly unhappy, but they consistently complained that they felt like the school was milking them for every penny they had. They also complained about the excessive amount of coursework, which they viewed as being a way to justify the exorbitant tuition they were paying. There was also a complaint that, when the APA took WJ to task for taking too many students, they began forcing students out of the program rather than accepting smaller cohorts. They also complained about the quality of some professors (though that's true for pretty much every grad student I've ever met).

Also, (and I think I've said this on other threads before) there was a huge variation in quality of students I met from there, from "really good" to "you shouldn't ever be allowed to see clients." It kind of spoke to the fact that they take pretty much anyone who can afford the tuition, and so there's no other barrier to acceptance that might weed out obvious red flag applicants.

Second this. I trained with William James students before and was taught and supervised by William James graduates. Some were great, some were awful. In addition to what's said above, because of the big cohort and lack of quality control at admission, some students also complained about their peers.

Local clinicians are aware of this variation in quality of students, and local sites still interview students from William James for clinical placements. You said you are interested in assessment (and I suppose you mean neuropsych). I don't know anyone who did the neuropsych concentration but I know someone who did a placement at Brenner and reported a good experience. You may want to reach out to the program director and ask about how the graduates of the neuropsych concentration did in terms of securing an internship beyond the William James Internship Consortium and a postdoc.

 

[jdawg2017]

Is there a reason you don’t want to wait another year and try again for funded programs? Unless you’re sitting on oodles of cash, waiting another year and working (beefing up your application) can pay huge dividends down the road. The field of psychology is not particularly lucrative and being saddled with massive debt is not advisable. I know several people who will be paying off hefty student loans for easily 10-20 years after internship. That’s ridiculous, as typically that’s the time when you want to buy a house, have kids, etc. So, if you’re wealthy, go for it... but not wanting to wait is probably not the best reason to choose PsyD if you’re taking on north of 100k debt.

R.e. the program specifically: the students are hit and miss, as mentioned. I have met some good neuro people there, but they had strong training prior to the program.

 

[YoungFrancis]

Im thinking about attending WJC to get my clinical psych PsyD but I have heard mixed things about the quality of student/school from there. Are there any current or former WJC students that could tell me about their experience? Or if anyone has any experience with students coming out of WJC?

Obviously, the biggest concern is the price tag as people have warned me about, but I’ve only gotten into psyd programs that are unfunded and i wouldn’t want to wait another year to reapply.

Thanks in advance.


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Simply put, the program is a scam. Many others have attested to this. Do not ignore them and convince yourself that you should go to William James because they are not current or former students. They are colleagues and other professionals who are familiar with the quality of WJC.

WJC students do a ton of practicum hours. They would not be competitive for many sites if their students did a reasonable amount of hours (2 days/week). The result of doing 30-35 hours/week (unpaid of course) is you miss out on supervision and research training. I have heard scary anecdotes about the quality of their dissertations.

Waiting to start your professional life sucks, but do not let it cloud your judgment. If you choose to ignore the advice on this board, you will graduate with enormous debt and the stigma of a WJC degree that will follow you for your entire professional career.