Any doctors having second thoughts on children?

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WilcoWorld said:
Totally agree. I don't think having been really messed up in a drunk driving accident would make someone a better Trauma Surgeon either.
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Or a psychiatrist with schizophrenia...
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I'm another 40-something, married without kids by choice. I think it's important for people making this huge decision to know that there are happy individuals and couples on both sides of the fence. We hear a lot about happy parents, and that's great, but there are also happy non-parents. It's just hard to say much about it, even when asked, because people can end up thinking you're just a cold selfish child-hater.

Maybe I would have enjoyed the parenting life, but I enjoy this one, so I have no regrets. I think there are many paths to a happy, fulfilling life. I agree that there are a lot of things that can go wrong in the world of children and parenting, but for us it really just came down to the fact that it wasn't a "hell yes," for either of us. We are not people who light up around babies or kids. (Same with my one sibling, so our parents got screwed on the grandparent front!) All my life, I've known several couples who didn't have children, and they've always seemed just as happy as those with children, so it wasn't a difficult decision for me.

I don't see dogs as being all that similar to kids, and I recoil in horror at the phrase "fur babies," but I do spend a ton of time with my dogs and love them to bits. Maybe my parenting gene was replaced by a "dog nut" gene.
 
My life without kids = amazing.
Hiking, playing basketball, new hobbies etc during the day and out late most nights with friends at new restaurants, bar hopping, concerts etc.
Wife and I hit up spots allllll over the globe.
Work-wise got promoted quickly and being offered jobs I'd never dream I'd be considered for.
Saved/invested a ton of cash because not having kids means low fixed expenses.

Flash forward to life with kids = harder, much harder. But significantly more fulfilling.
There's the whole "I love them to pieces" thingy that everybody says--that's true.
Watching them learn new skills and succeed after struggling...is basically magic.
Their existence also makes me realize just how little time I have left on this rock. I'm much more determined to spend that time left doing things with people I care about and find rewarding rather than wheeling/dealing to land a rez at the new tapas place (though if they're mutual inclusive that's a double win).
Somehow the mundane things I do with kids--take 'em to a museum, play catch, etc--feel more special than when I used to go to top-shelf whisky bars. I have no idea why.
It's motivated me to make healthier life choices I'm back down to my college weight; don't want to die early and not see my kids into mid-adulthood.

So here's my advice re: not have kids vs not kids...
Unless you truly want kids, without external influence/motivations...you shouldn't have them. We need good people on this earth without kids to have more energy to do things than those of us who have them.
At the same time, if you don't have kids then you are last in line to offer parental advice/judge people who have them. In front of you in that line are people with kids...who also shouldn't offer unsolicited parenting advice either lol.
 
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namethatsmell said:
Somehow the mundane things I do with kids--take 'em to a museum, play catch, etc--feel more special than when I used to go to top-shelf whisky bars. I have no idea why.
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100% agree. It feels like....my life before kids was colorful enough. But it's like having kids unlocked colors that I didn't know existed, or like someone dialed the saturation wayyyy up. So when I look back on my pre-kid life, it feels washed out in comparison. Not bad - just like a painting in pastel colors isn't bad, but it just isn't anywhere near as vibrant as a painting with highly saturated neon colors. But explaining that change to someone who doesn't have kids is hard, like explaining a symphony to someone who has been deaf since birth.

Regardless of what happens....you'll have a baby. An amazing little being who will blow your mind and expand your heart and make you think things you never thought and remember things you believed you forgot and heal things you imagined would never heal and forgive people you’ve begrudged for too long and understand things you didn’t understand before you fell madly in love with a tiny tyrant who doesn’t give a crap whether you need to pee. You will sing again if you stopped singing. You will dance again if you stopped dancing. You will crawl around on the floor and play chase and tickle and peek-a-boo. You’ll make towers of teetering blocks and snakes and rabbits with clay.

It’s an altogether cool thing.
- Cheryl Strayed
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smq123 said:
100% agree. It feels like....my life before kids was colorful enough. But it's like having kids unlocked colors that I didn't know existed, or like someone dialed the saturation wayyyy up. So when I look back on my pre-kid life, it feels washed out in comparison. Not bad - just like a painting in pastel colors isn't bad, but it just isn't anywhere near as vibrant as a painting with highly saturated neon colors. But explaining that change to someone who doesn't have kids is hard, like explaining a symphony to someone who has been deaf since birth.
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I know this wasn’t your intention at all, but I’d point out that the handful of responses like these are what drives the strong “anti child” tik tok culture.

It’s just a smaaaaall step away from “your life isn’t fulfilling without kids”. And that makes people angry and defensive.
 
skougess said:
I know this wasn’t your intention at all, but I’d point out that the handful of responses like these are what drives the strong “anti child” tik tok culture.

It’s just a smaaaaall step away from “your life isn’t fulfilling without kids”. And that makes people angry and defensive.
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She's just describing her personal experience, I don't think it was meant to call out anyone who doesn't want children.
 
skougess said:
I know this wasn’t your intention at all, but I’d point out that the handful of responses like these are what drives the strong “anti child” tik tok culture.

It’s just a smaaaaall step away from “your life isn’t fulfilling without kids”. And that makes people angry and defensive.
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If the TikTok crowd immediately extrapolates some people’s positive experiences as parents to “your life isn’t fulfilling without kids,” then they have bigger issues. Maybe they should get off TikTok and find a therapist who can help them understand why they’re so easily angry and defensive. 🤷🏻‍♀️
 
smq123 said:
If the TikTok crowd immediately extrapolates some people’s positive experiences as parents to “your life isn’t fulfilling without kids,” then they have bigger issues. Maybe they should get off TikTok and find a therapist who can help them understand why they’re so easily angry and defensive. 🤷🏻‍♀️
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If you're secure in your decision to not have kids, you dont make a tiktok dance about it.
 
I don't have biological children.
But I am Nonna because I married into adult step-children and got a grandson and have an impending granddaughter out of the deal. My husband is 10 years older and on our first date we discussed children. He volunteered to start over; I said I was perfectly happy not to as his youngest was 17. While I was old enough to be her mother, I had already come to the conclusion that I didn't need children of my own. I'd always just assumed it would happen until I realized my first husband would not be someone I wanted to have children with and also... medicine makes things complicated. I was 36 then, and 10 years later am still perfectly happy without my own children. I also don't Tik-tok. My father struggled with this as none of my siblings have children either ("that we know of..." per my youngest brother) and thanks to hysterectomies and other tragedies, there won't be any. So we have come up with alternative ways to leave legacies to help my dad with that psychological bit.

I figure I managed to skip the hard part. Maybe I skipped the colorful, beautiful parts, but skipping right to grandparenting is pretty awesome. There's also no way to know if you won't draw the short stick, and having seen more than my fair share of pediatric tragedies (remember that I do HPM now), sometimes deciding not to gamble also reinforces said decision. I've also seen plenty of estranged families at the end where children didn't "take care" of their parents to know that children aren't a guarantee of that either, so again, that's never a good reason.

And I'm late to the party because I was just off galavanting around Europe with 2 of my best friends from college... neither of whom have children either, ironically.
 
GonnaBeADoc2222 said:
If you're secure in your decision to not have kids, you dont make a tiktok dance about it.
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Tiktok and most social media is a mess, yes, but people make tiktok dances about how much they love their kids, their dogs, their sports, their country, etc.

In this very thread you have people using very artistic language to describe the experience of being a parent. Does that mean they're insecure about it too, or does the sentiment only apply if you're dancing at the same time?
 
Franzd'Epinay said:
Tiktok and most social media is a mess, yes, but people make tiktok dances about how much they love their kids, their dogs, their sports, their country, etc.

In this very thread you have people using very artistic language to describe the experience of being a parent. Does that mean they're insecure about it too, or does the sentiment only apply if you're dancing at the same time?
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Creating content to celebrate something you have is a very different concept than creating content to show what you don't.
 
GonnaBeADoc2222 said:
Creating content to celebrate something you have is a very different concept than creating content to show what you don't.
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Definitely most of the tik tok stuff gets into /r/nongolfers territory. But I’m sure you can appreciate that society constantly and loudly tells people that having children is the only way to live and be happy. You could see how people would want to seek solidarity and acceptance in their decision to not have children through others. Not everyone has people in their life that are supportive of that decision.
 
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GonnaBeADoc2222 said:
Creating content to celebrate something you have is a very different concept than creating content to show what you don't.
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They're all people creating content to celebrate their own lives. People can be obnoxious about things they have and things they don't have--I don't think it necessarily points to a security or insecurity of their beliefs.

To extend the golfing metaphor from the other poster above, I feel pretty confident in my non-golfing life, but I might be inclined to be vocal about it if there were groups of golfers telling non-golfers that they're selfish, that they haven't lived life, or that there's something wrong with them. These things don't happen in a vacuum. And I say all this as someone who finds a lot of "childfree" content (really, most social media content) super obnoxious.
 
Franzd'Epinay said:
They're all people creating content to celebrate their own lives. People can be obnoxious about things they have and things they don't have--I don't think it necessarily points to a security or insecurity of their beliefs.

To extend the golfing metaphor from the other poster above, I feel pretty confident in my non-golfing life, but I might be inclined to be vocal about it if there were groups of golfers telling non-golfers that they're selfish, that they haven't lived life, or that there's something wrong with them. These things don't happen in a vacuum. And I say all this as someone who finds a lot of "childfree" content (really, most social media content) super obnoxious.
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And that's not OK either. Its OK to have kids and its OK to not have kids. We shouldn't be judging either group nor rubbing our group in the other's face.
 
dchristismi said:
I've also seen plenty of estranged families at the end where children didn't "take care" of their parents to know that children aren't a guarantee of that either, so again, that's never a good reason.
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Totally - having kids does not guarantee that someone will take care of you when you're old & infirm. Nothing guarantees that, but what does appear to make it more likely is, you know, caring about someone and treating them well for years on end. No reason that person has to share your genes.
 
WilcoWorld said:
Totally - having kids does not guarantee that someone will take care of you when you're old & infirm. Nothing guarantees that, but what does appear to make it more likely is, you know, caring about someone and treating them well for years on end. No reason that person has to share your genes.
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Most ridiculous reason to have kids anyways imo. If I'm that old and infirm that I need someone to take care of me, just put me in the grave. If you want kids much better reasons are enjoying the process of raising them, spending time with them, and finding meaning in hopefully contributing to them being productive and well adjusted adults.
 
sloh said:
Most ridiculous reason to have kids anyways imo. If I'm that old and infirm that I need someone to take care of me, just put me in the grave. If you want kids much better reasons are enjoying the process of raising them, spending time with them, and finding meaning in hopefully contributing to them being productive and well adjusted adults.
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And grandkids
 
sloh said:
Most ridiculous reason to have kids anyways imo. If I'm that old and infirm that I need someone to take care of me, just put me in the grave. If you want kids much better reasons are enjoying the process of raising them, spending time with them, and finding meaning in hopefully contributing to them being productive and well adjusted adults.
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I think you could expand that to - having kids for any instrumental/transactional reason is a bad decision.

Have kids because you want kids.
 
skougess said:
I never understood the nanny thing. You love having kids so much you want to outsource their care? I have friends who lament when their kids can’t go to daycare one weekend. I have other friends that lament leaving for work every day to not be with their kids.

I think the former is living the very definition of regret.
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Being home with and taking care of a kid(s), especially small ones ALL DAY LONG, is exhausting. Far more exhausting than a similar length day of work, IMO. That doesn’t mean you don’t love them and are genuinely happy to have them, be with them, play with them, take care of them, etc. But having someone who can give you a break for a few hours so you can be free to put your own needs first for a change is something only someone who has been trapped in a house with a psychotic 1 year old for 24 hours straight would understand.

If you’ve done that and still feel the same way, DM me your info so I can nominate you for sainthood.
 
Patience is a virtue for a reason. I often find my own kids are a lot easier than others sometimes make theirs sound. Kids emulate those around them. When you let more roll off your shoulders, your kids do too. Kids can be hard, but they are also harder if you make it harder. This thread isn’t intentionally about parenting advice. However, the cost-benefit analysis of having kids is more individual than it is universal based upon your approach, personality, goals and priorities. There is no universal truth. The best thing this thread can teach you is to compare and contrast others’ posts with your own views to see where your own chips fall.
 
The most recent Sam Harris podcast discusses the nature of transformative life experiences. The first 15 minutes specifically discuss the philosophy and psychology around the discussion on this thread. Interesting listen if that’s your jam. Link below:

www.samharris.org

Sam Harris | #327 - Transformative Experiences

Sam Harris speaks with L.A. Paul about the nature of transformative experiences.
www.samharris.org www.samharris.org
 
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