Any general dentists that worked >40 hours for a few years to pay off loans?

[carabelliscusp]

Curious about any stories you or anyone you know might have about working lets say 50-60 hours a week at the beginning of your career. How did you find that job? How much were you making?

I'm trying to distinguish this from the usual salary threads by focusing specifically on individuals who worked much more than average

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[emma_m]

It’s not always about how many hours you work per week, but what kind of procedures you do, if you take insurance or are FFS. If you do orthodontics or surgical procedures (implants, bone grafts, surgical extractions), cosmetic cases, even a lot of fillings but you make them by quadrants and do 3-4 complex fillings in one hour FFS you should be able to earn a good income. The more complex procedures you do, the higher the income. Obviously if you take insurance, you lose a lot of potential income but if there aren’t any FFS practices in your area at least get a job in a practice that takes better insurance plans.

 

[charlestweed]

Two things that will affect the time it takes to pay off your debts, especially your student loan debt.

1. Your household income. Your income depends on:

a. The number of patients you see per day and the number of days you work per week. The higher these numbers are, the higher your income will be.

b. Your clinical experience and skills. The faster you work and the more patients you can handle per day, the higher production you will have for that day. Even when you treat many patients who have cheap plans like medicaid, you will still end up making more than the guy who works less days. By accepting a variety of plans and offering reasonable fees, you don’t have to worry about filling your appt book….about marketing your practice. It’s not easy to attract FFS patients. Patients that have money will demand a lot from you….and you will have to spend a lot (which will result in higher overhead.....and higher stress level) to keep them happy.

c. Your spouse's income.

2. Your spending habit: If you spend more than what you make, your debt will grow larger. If you stretch out your loan repayments to a longer term (ie to 20-30 years….or by signing up for the IBR), you fail to see that you have a debt problem because the required monthly repayment amount is much lower than if you go with the standard 10-year term. Because you fail to see that you are a broke dentist, you tend to go out and spend money on stupid things. By the time you realize you are in much bigger debt, it might already be too late….you turn 50-60….still in debt….still have zero saving for your retirement.

Things can get out of control, if you don’t have a detailed written monthly budget...if you finance everything that you buy, instead of paying it in full. It’s not a good sign if you use credit cards to pay for everything and you can’t pay off the credit card balance every month. Dave Ramsey recommends using a debit card instead of credit card because it forces you not to spend the money that you don’t have.

When you work less (ie 4 or less days/wk), not only you lose the income for not working, but you also have too much free time to do burn your money on things like hobbies, expensive meals, expensive trips, timeshare fees, country club membership, netflix/cable subscriptions etc in order to avoid the boredom for staying at home.

 

[Thehighwind87]

Curious about any stories you or anyone you know might have about working lets say 50-60 hours a week at the beginning of your career. How did you find that job? How much were you making?

I'm trying to distinguish this from the usual salary threads by focusing specifically on individuals who worked much more than average

The whole point of dentistry is the whole lifestyle thing- you know 4 days a week.

If you want to open a chain of practices (much much much harder then it looks) then sure go work 50-60 hours a week.

Regardless, there is a difference between working harder and working more efficiently. A practice that takes crappy insurance that doesn't reimburse well- can be "busy" doing 3 crowns +18 hygiene checks ...and a FFS/OON practice can do 1 crown + 9 hygiene checks and work LESS hours and MAKE MORE MONEY in that day over the practice with crappy insurance.

So long story made short- if you want to work 50-60 hours- go to medicine. The whole point of dentistry is being efficient and having a work life balance. I mean literally- an efficient practice on a 3 day workweek can make as much if not more money then some in-efficient practice open 6 days a week.

 

[charlestweed]

The whole point of dentistry is the whole lifestyle thing- you know 4 days a week.

I think this lifestyle thing (work-life balance) is no longer the reason why many today young predents pursue dentistry, especially when the debt for obtaining a DDS is so high now. Working 5+ days/wk to pay back the student loans is a must now. Many of the young SDNers here even said that they don’t expect to have a lavish lifestyle like the dentists, who graduated years ago. They pursue dentistry because of the job security. It’s a recession proof career. It’s not easy to make money these days. There are not lot of jobs out there that pay well and are stable even when one has a college degree. If you only make $40-45k a year, you are living paycheck to paycheck.

If you want to open a chain of practices (much much much harder then it looks) then sure go work 50-60 hours a week.

Regardless, there is a difference between working harder and working more efficiently. A practice that takes crappy insurance that doesn't reimburse well- can be "busy" doing 3 crowns +18 hygiene checks ...and a FFS/OON practice can do 1 crown + 9 hygiene checks and work LESS hours and MAKE MORE MONEY in that day over the practice with crappy insurance.

So long story made short- if you want to work 50-60 hours- go to medicine. The whole point of dentistry is being efficient and having a work life balance. I mean literally- an efficient practice on a 3 day workweek can make as much if not more money then some in-efficient practice open 6 days a week.

I know plenty of successful dentists who do very well with their super busy practices that accept HMO and medicaid. My wife’s GP boss is one of them. My younger sister is another one…she used to be very busy (worked 7 days a wk) but not anymore now. ColdFront is another one….he hires associates to work for him.

I am in a super competitive area and I have to keep the fees low to attract more patients…to compete against corp offices. My fees are way below the national average. But I think I make more than many of my colleagues. That’s because I see more patients per day and work more days per week than them. I don’t know how much my colleagues make. The reasons I think I make more are I don’t go around and complain about my profession like them…they still have debts and I don’t…they still worry about things like the economy and inflation and I don’t....they are not happy with what they make and I am.

 

[gryffindor]

Back in the day, we used to call this the “6 Days a Week” club. This is the club you joined after graduation if you needed to earn extra to pay down student loans.

These days I read that circumstances have changed. The goal is not pay down the loans to take advantage of various forgiveness programs. So new grads are not so inclined to work 6 days a week.

But no one will stop you if you want to work more when you’re starting out so go for it.

 

[gryffindor]

And to find a once-a-week job, you comb your usual sources where you find jobs and network. Apply to all part-time jobs on Indeed within the distance you are willing commute. Maybe increase your radius a bit to see if you get a better offer. Email doctors in the area and ask if they are looking for help. I hear there is a shortage of hygienists, email private practices and offer to work as the hygienist and diagnosing dentist rolled into one with availability every Friday (or whatever day you have).

 

[allDAT]

Working more doesn’t mean you’ll make more. You need to find the right office and learn to say the right things to get people to say yes to the things they need. It’s dramatically easier to get people to say yes when the office has a great reputation.


It really is all about collections. Reasonably solid volume and high fees is what we all want.

You also want time to learn and grow as a person. You just happen to be a dentist.

 

[charlestweed]

Working more doesn’t mean you’ll make more. You need to find the right office and learn to say the right things to get people to say yes to the things they need. It’s dramatically easier to get people to say yes when the office has a great reputation.


It really is all about collections. Reasonably solid volume and high fees is what we all want.

You also want time to learn and grow as a person. You just happen to be a dentist.

Even with great reputation, you still won't be able to attract them if you don't take their insurance plans. They will get dental tx at the corp because corps accept all insurance plans and offer weekend hours.

 

[allDAT]

Even with great reputation, you still won't be able to attract them if you don't take their insurance plans. They will get dental tx at the corp because corps accept all insurance plans and offer weekend hours.

Insurance helps a lot. But this statement is not consistent with my experience or many of my friends, we’re in SoCal.

From my experience, corporate dentistry attracts a certain patient pool that’s not necessarily that productive to work with. But if that’s where you need to start, start there.

 

[charlestweed]

Insurance helps a lot. But this statement is not consistent with my experience or many of my friends, we’re in SoCal.

From my experience, corporate dentistry attracts a certain patient pool that’s not necessarily that productive to work with. But if that’s where you need to start, start there.

At the corp that I currently work for, I’ve seen a lot of new patients who came from private offices. The older child got ortho tx at a private office. But then mom/dad witched job and got new dental insurance. And since the private office doesn’t accept their new insurance, they have to bring their younger child to see me at the corp.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Curious about any stories you or anyone you know might have about working lets say 50-60 hours a week at the beginning of your career. How did you find that job? How much were you making?

I'm trying to distinguish this from the usual salary threads by focusing specifically on individuals who worked much more than average

I’m doing it now! Graduated in May. Am working an average of 44.5 hours per week. Am commuting an hour each way to work. An hour home. Considering my commute it’s around 55 hours per week dedicated to work.

Loans on track to be paid off by the end of the year (1.5 years after graduating). That’s when the fun really begins.

 

[AONLINE]

I’m doing it now! Graduated in May. Am working an average of 44.5 hours per week. Am commuting an hour each way to work. An hour home. Considering my commute it’s around 55 hours per week dedicated to work.

Loans on track to be paid off by the end of the year (1.5 years after graduating). That’s when the fun really begins.

Hats off to you for being dedicated in paying off your loans! Are you working for a DSO or PP?

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Hats off to you for being dedicated in paying off your loans! Are you working for a DSO or PP?

Thanks!

I am working for two different private practices.

 

[Thehighwind87]

I’m doing it now! Graduated in May. Am working an average of 44.5 hours per week. Am commuting an hour each way to work. An hour home. Considering my commute it’s around 55 hours per week dedicated to work.

Loans on track to be paid off by the end of the year (1.5 years after graduating). That’s when the fun really begins.

Wow thats impressive, how much student loans did you graduate with? I'm assuming 100-200k? If you graduated with 300-500k and paid it off in 2 years- you must be making bank after taxes are paid.

 

[Pablo Sanchez]

Wow thats impressive, how much student loans did you graduate with? I'm assuming 100-200k? If you graduated with 300-500k and paid it off in 2 years- you must be making bank after taxes are paid.

Close to the $200k range. I limited my debt as much as I could!

 

[Thehighwind87]

That makes more sense. I graduated with 200-250k and I think I finished mine in 2-3 years....but I def did what you did. 6 days a week, multiple offices, live with parents, live with gf...paid I think 500$ for a room.

200-250k is reasonable debt load.

 

[charlestweed]

I’m doing it now! Graduated in May. Am working an average of 44.5 hours per week. Am commuting an hour each way to work. An hour home. Considering my commute it’s around 55 hours per week dedicated to work.

Loans on track to be paid off by the end of the year (1.5 years after graduating). That’s when the fun really begins.

Great job! That’ll be a lot quicker than us. It took my wife and me 5 years to pay off ours and we had double income. Once you’re close to paying off your debt, you should reward yourself a self-driving Tesla. It’ll make your 2-hour daily commute 100 times easier. For this coming Monday, I will have to drive 70 miles (each way) to help cover for a corp office that is still looking for an orthodontist. If I didn’t have a self driving car, I would not have said yes to work at this office.

Here is my company’s job ad for this ortho office on indeed.com. If any of you, orthodontist in Socal, want an easy (start at 9am and leave at 5:30pm….2-hour lunch) good paying job, give them a call.