Any Nurses Applying?

[Darle78]

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I've surfed all over the DO section of this site and haven't found a thread like this; so, if it exists some where please point me in right direction and forgive this post. If not, here we go...

I started out in college as Pre-med then went through the proverbial 'discovering myself' phase and eventually decided to become a nurse at the recommendation of my older sister. Yet, being a doctor is my dream & now I am pursuing it full force.

So are any of you out there like me and how are you fairing in the application process?

I have been an RN in critical care for 10 years. I am a preceptor, charge nurse, nurse educator, and safety captain for hospital safety committee. I volunteer at a free clinic and the local senior citizen center. I am certified ACLS, PALS, and CCRN and have a BSN. I am finishing last reqs. Organic II and Physics II and plan to take MCAT this summer. I have many upper level sciences and will take Bio Chem this fall while doing the application thing. I have also worked full time this entire time.

My GPA sucks though...3.2 science 3.4 cum. Made all A's since year bf BSN reqs. Includes A in Organic Chem and am getting an A in Organic II.

I worry that my academic slip that occurred after graduating ADN program will hurt my chances even with my great performance since then. I tried to go to school full time during my first year as an RN (I started in critical care) and my grades suffered. I retook the classes though and got all A's.

Thoughts from any of you like me?
Does anyone know how much having a strong nursing background helps or hurts us? (I get mixed answers in non cyber space)

 

[kcin]

Just apply. You'll be fine. I can't imagine sustained patient contact over a ten year period would be anything but a positive on your application.

 

[Sinfest]

Own the MCAT, apply early, and you should be fine.

Also, your years of experience will do nothing but set you apart from the applicant crowd (in a good way). Good luck 👍

 

[toledopower]

I'm a nurse and I'll be applying the 2012 cycle. I would of thought that being a nurse would be beneficial to applying to medical school but nursing majors have one of the lowest matriculation rates of any degree.

 

[sylvanthus]

I'm a nurse and I'll be applying the 2012 cycle. I would of thought that being a nurse would be beneficial to applying to medical school but nursing majors have one of the lowest matriculation rates of any degree.

I think part of the reason for this could be that ADCOMs want to know why the switch from nursing to medicine? Also, there is a shortage of nurses, so why remove a nurse from patient care to become a physician?
The direct patient care has to be a benefit though.

 

[Darle78]

I believe it depends on your area of speciality as to how much it adds to your credentials. Also, the physician shortage severely out ways the nursing shortage. I agree that the question of why one would want to switch from nursing to MD/DO is the pivotal point... You can't say because you like to help people, because you are already doing that. You must be educated on the current situations. The nursing shortage applies mainly to acute care facilities. I mean how many clinic, pain treatment, out-patient jobs do you see posted in your areas.

I see it as a huge plus if you know how to answer that question.

 

[sylvanthus]

I believe it depends on your area of speciality as to how much it adds to your credentials. Also, the physician shortage severely out ways the nursing shortage. I agree that the question of why one would want to switch from nursing to MD/DO is the pivotal point... You can't say because you like to help people, because you are already doing that. You must be educated on the current situations. The nursing shortage applies mainly to acute care facilities. I mean how many clinic, pain treatment, out-patient jobs do you see posted in your areas.

I see it as a huge plus if you know how to answer that question.

Ehh I don't see it like that, and I doubt many ADCOMS do. It will take 7+ years of training before becoming a physician and being able to help out patients (yes you do some pt care during residency obviously). How many patients could have been helped if the person kept working as a nurse?

Also, the physician shortage applies essentially only to primary care, whats to say that that nurse will definately go into primary care?

 

[drewmeister2]

I've surfed all over the DO section of this site and haven't found a thread like this; so, if it exists some where please point me in right direction and forgive this post. If not, here we go...

Here is a thread I found a few days ago in the clinicians forum. The thread was started many years back but I still found it interesting:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=43323

 

[Darle78]

Ehh I don't see it like that, and I doubt many ADCOMS do. It will take 7+ years of training before becoming a physician and being able to help out patients (yes you do some pt care during residency obviously). How many patients could have been helped if the person kept working as a nurse?

Also, the physician shortage applies essentially only to primary care, whats to say that that nurse will definately go into primary care?

I see we have negative Nancy on here. Actually they are already scrambling to prevent a current shortage from becoming critical in 2020. Give you a hint it's not nurses... Cardiothoracics. If you dont believe that check out the AACS, AMA, and most all surgical organizations! In fact they devised a new program in 2010 that combined general surgery with cardiothoracic to make 10 slots nation wide. These 10 students will be in residency for 6 years. Oh and they upped the number of slots from 10 to 14 this tear.

Sorry I don't listen to negativity. Getting into med school is a crap shoot most of the time and the more dice you have the better your chances. I think it's harder for general med surge, OB, OPS nurses to us their nursing as a bonus, but CCU, ICU, ER, & the coveted CVR already possess many of the qualities med schools look for in their students. Performance under extreme circumstances just to name 1.

I say to any RN that wants to switch... Don't listen to anyone else! Keep pushing for what you want and working hard & eventually it'll pay off!


Yes, I am CVR. Actually charge nurse CVR, nurse educator CCU & CVR, safety committee captain for CVR, I teach EKG, and I have multiple certifications. So yes I think all this is a plus in my corner, not a minus.

Good luck to all!!

 

[FrkyBgStok]

look i have no problems with nurses applying, and I wish you the best, but you come on here asking for opinions, then you completely disregard it spouting off like you know the answer.

the fact is, based on previous studies, that people with nursing degrees have one of the lowest matriculation rates of all other degrees. this is verifiable. the question is why. i suspect many apply not having the slightest idea of what it really takes. many shouldn't be going into medicine, many nurses don't apply. i don't have a solid answer, but don't jump down peoples throats when they tell you what the system is.

if you already know the answer, don't waste your time starting a thread.

 

[FrkyBgStok]

A caveat to my above statement. I know I have read a table on here that shows nursing majors as a low percentage of accepted students. I cannot find that table, so maybe someone else knows what I am talking about, so until then, remember that. Also, bare in mind that it has been discussed thousands of times in thousands of "nurse to doctor" threads that there is commonly a bias.

I should also state that it may have nothing to do with a bias, but could be a self selection. I do not know for sure. But it should be considered when people give advice and what the standard answer is for reoccuring questions.

 

[RNwantDO]

I am a soon to be ADN, and most likely will get my BS in Biomed. I think, statistically I would be a Biomed student. This is probably why the stats do not show well for Nurses. ADN's probably have a higher rate of acceptance than the stats show. As they can get their BS in a Science based field, and therefore are not counted as a Nursing major when they matriculate.

(Complete personal conjecture)
My guess is that there is a lot of prejudice against BSN's, because of a lack of knowledge on the different educational paths to becoming a Nurse. They may questions one's motivation as they feel that you have already committed extra effort in attaining a BSN instead of an ADN. They probably also wonder why you would chose medicine over nursing when so many nurses are pressing for more autonomy. Lastly, my guess is that, some Nurse's approach this decision on an emotional level, as opposed to a logical level.

 

[OzelloPiRat]

I have spoken to numerous adcoms across the nation, DO and MD. None have had a problem with my being an RN. They are excited to get nurses! They know that any nurse, from any field, already has patient experience and contact. You already know how to do a brief H&P. Have a knowledge of meds, interactions and a basic knowledge of disease process. They know that you will not hit the floor in M3 and freak out. I am an ASN. I considered getting my BSN but am finishing my biomed sciences. The adcom here at USF said it wouldn't matter which degree I choose. I think there is a lower number bc not many nurses do make the RN to Doc transition. Call the adcoms and ask them. The main thing is to know exactly why you want to become a Doc. What lead you to the descision. You must be able to have a firm and direct answer for it, as you will not make it past your PS without it.

 

[RNueve]

I'm in school now for a BSN, got about 2 semesters left. I'm registered for the MCAT in August and will be applying this year for 2012.

I got my BS in premed and basically psyched myself out. Didn't think I would do well on the MCAT and kinda gave up. Going through nursing school it just kept eating at me that this isn't where I want to be and I have to go for my dream.

I'm on track now and nothing will get in the way. I know what I want to accomplish and I'm going for it.

 

[OzelloPiRat]

Glad you are now going for your dream! Have you taken practice MCATs yet?

 

[RNueve]

Glad you are now going for your dream! Have you taken practice MCATs yet?

Not yet. I'm gonna wait on that so I can study. I'm finishing up this semester and then I have from May until August to study for it. I took a kaplan class earlier on before I got my first degree and it didn't really do anything for me. I just got all TBR books and the EK books so we'll see how it goes.

 

[OzelloPiRat]

I have been using the EK books and they are my fav out of the huge stack of MKitty review sources I have. I am still reviewing as if I was going to take it in May, as it will only help in the classes I am retaking.

 

[99redballoons]

Not yet. I'm gonna wait on that so I can study. I'm finishing up this semester and then I have from May until August to study for it. I took a kaplan class earlier on before I got my first degree and it didn't really do anything for me. I just got all TBR books and the EK books so we'll see how it goes.

I would recommend that you take one without studying to give yourself a baseline. You are gonna want to know how much your score improves with your studying. This way you can tell if your routine is having positive effects. Most of the time your score is not going to improve in astonishing numbers anyway. The average improvement is probably a point in each section for a total of three.

As for being a nurse and becoming a doctor someone above hit the nail on the head. The stats will be way off because a significant number of nurses do not obtain a BSN so their major is not counted as nursing. I am an LPN and I am 100% sure that my nursing experience helped me get admitted to medical school. Nurses have better experience than 99% of other applicants. EMTs or paramedics have good experience of course, but I cannot think of a profession in which you have more experience with patients, doctors or anyone else involved in health care than nursing.

 

[OzelloPiRat]

I agree with taking a practice test to see where you are at. I was very surprised with mine! Gave me a boost to keep studying.

 

[MightyMoose]

I would recommend that you take one without studying to give yourself a baseline. You are gonna want to know how much your score improves with your studying. This way you can tell if your routine is having positive effects. Most of the time your score is not going to improve in astonishing numbers anyway. The average improvement is probably a point in each section for a total of three.

S/He has already taken a practice MCAT if s/he took the Kaplan before. I'm sure the base score will not change a tremendous amount from the one a year and a half ago or so.

I think s/he is on the right track. Study, then start taking practice tests. No sense in wasting one without studying.


As far as the nursing question, I think it is very similar to most degree hoppers. You need to have a good reason for the change. In the previous posters example, s/he will need an excellent reason because s/he is still IN A NURSING PROGRAM! The switch is still attainable, but schools will want to know why this person took a spot in nursing just to apply to medical school immediately after finishing.


Not to mention, nurses have a pretty sweet gig. Minimal hours, plenty of time off, great pay, limited liability, etc.. These are all things most adcoms know, so the reason should be pretty good.

 

[lastcall]

Do well in your pre-med classes and rock the MCAT. A previous nursing career is certainly nice to add as a clinically-relevant experience but it won't offset a low g.p.a. and/or MCAT score. The adcoms (M.D. and D.O. schools) will focus on your grades and MCAT score! (I know from whence I speak, I was a former nurse, now an M1 student). Good luck to you

 

[OzelloPiRat]

Not to mention, nurses have a pretty sweet gig. Minimal hours, plenty of time off, great pay, limited liability, etc.. These are all things most adcoms know, so the reason should be pretty good.

You are obviously not a nurse. Our hours are crazy. We cannot leave if a patient is unstable. I have stayed waaaaay past 18 hrs many times. Time off? Really? Let me know where. Great pay? Again, let me know where. It is good pay, but it caps out and you cannot earn more by increasing your marketing, like a Doc can. Liability, I don't want to touch that with a ten foot pole. I was involved in three litigation cases, two from other nurses actions and one from a physician. Hit the floor with me and you will change your mind after an hour.
Just like many physicians, we don't do it for the "money and fame".

I do agree about the Kaplan. Didn't think of that as I won't be taking their course.

 

[MightyMoose]

You are obviously not a nurse. Our hours are crazy. We cannot leave if a patient is unstable. I have stayed waaaaay past 18 hrs many times. Time off? Really? Let me know where. Great pay? Again, let me know where. It is good pay, but it caps out and you cannot earn more by increasing your marketing, like a Doc can. Liability, I don't want to touch that with a ten foot pole. I was involved in three litigation cases, two from other nurses actions and one from a physician. Hit the floor with me and you will change your mind after an hour.
Just like many physicians, we don't do it for the "money and fame".

I do agree about the Kaplan. Didn't think of that as I won't be taking their course.

I am in no way belittling the number of hours nor stating the pay is good enough for everyone, but here are some hard numbers for you:

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291111.htm

The average pay is between $31 and $32 per hour.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/23/4/202.full

"Even though nurses worked approximately four days per week, averaging 40.2 (±12.9) hours per week (range 8–97.2 hours per week), one-quarter worked more than fifty hours per week for two or more weeks of the four-week period."

In order to give you a better idea of how much better nurses have it in relation to physician salaries, take a look at this article that compares a 40 hour/wk job as a UPS driver (~ that of your average nurse) and an income of 60k/year (about 10-20k LESS than your average NP). Now factor the minimal training required to become a nurse when comparing it to that of a physician. You will start to see that nurses have a really really good gig, with awesome job stability and flexibility (in terms of hours, location, and specialty area).

http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html


Once again, I love nurses (some more than others), my argument is merely based on the financial benefits and work hours of your average nurse. In terms of liabilities, you cannot even argue that a nurse has as much liability as a physician, because they just don't and it's silly to argue otherwise.

 

[OzelloPiRat]

I would never argue that we have the same liability as a physician, but you made it seem that we had very little. I delt weekly with issue that could turm into a litigation situation. I know that Docs take on a whole different, huge, set of responsibilities. I think that is what actually gives me pause the most about this descision. I know (from a nurses perspective) the knowledge that Docs hold and the "power" of fixing or destroying human life. I wonder if I can really learn everything I need in the four years of school.

 

[99redballoons]

I am in no way belittling the number of hours nor stating the pay is good enough for everyone, but here are some hard numbers for you:

http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291111.htm

The average pay is between $31 and $32 per hour.

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/23/4/202.full

"Even though nurses worked approximately four days per week, averaging 40.2 (±12.9) hours per week (range 8–97.2 hours per week), one-quarter worked more than fifty hours per week for two or more weeks of the four-week period."

In order to give you a better idea of how much better nurses have it in relation to physician salaries, take a look at this article that compares a 40 hour/wk job as a UPS driver (~ that of your average nurse) and an income of 60k/year (about 10-20k LESS than your average NP). Now factor the minimal training required to become a nurse when comparing it to that of a physician. You will start to see that nurses have a really really good gig, with awesome job stability and flexibility (in terms of hours, location, and specialty area).

http://www.er-doctor.com/doctor_income.html


Once again, I love nurses (some more than others), my argument is merely based on the financial benefits and work hours of your average nurse. In terms of liabilities, you cannot even argue that a nurse has as much liability as a physician, because they just don't and it's silly to argue otherwise.

The information that you provided is decent at best, but it doesn't take a ton of factors into consideration. It does not differentiate between RN/BSNs and RNs. It does not account for the fact that a significant number of nurses work per-diem jobs in different places. So, one might only work 40 hours per week at one job, and then work another 20-30 at a second job. Hospital nurses are notorious for jumping between the hospital and extended care facilities. Don't get me wrong nurses get paid pretty well, but there are not any rich nurses. A nurse that goes to school for four years may make 90k at the highest end. That is on par with many salaries for people with bachelor degrees. Liability for nurses has increased significantly over the past ten years. It does not match a the liability of physicians, but it is high and rising. It is clear as day that you are not a nurse and have no knowledge of what nurses actually do. Citing articles on the internet means jack ****. I am not trying to be mean....just honest.

 

[Darle78]

The information that you provided is decent at best, but it doesn't take a ton of factors into consideration. It does not differentiate between RN/BSNs and RNs. It does not account for the fact that a significant number of nurses work per-diem jobs in different places. So, one might only work 40 hours per week at one job, and then work another 20-30 at a second job. Hospital nurses are notorious for jumping between the hospital and extended care facilities. Don't get me wrong nurses get paid pretty well, but there are not any rich nurses. A nurse that goes to school for four years may make 90k at the highest end. That is on par with many salaries for people with bachelor degrees. Liability for nurses has increased significantly over the past ten years. It does not match a the liability of physicians, but it is high and rising. It is clear as day that you are not a nurse and have no knowledge of what nurses actually do. Citing articles on the internet means jack ****. I am not trying to be mean....just honest.

Thank you for those knowledgable words. RN's get the crap work, the crap hours, the no cost of living raise in 4 yrs, and the blame for most any patient problem. I too agree that the person who keeps referencing stats is NOT nor ever has been an RN! Thus, this thread is not for you. If you're here just to stir the pot it's already obvious which doctor category you're going to fall into... No I don't mience words either.

To the success stories we've read in this thread... Congratulations on your wonderful achievement. May you take the compassion and caring nature of nu
nursing with you. Remember those patients that cried bc they just wanted someone to explain what was wrong c their loved one. Or that precious child that you helped into the arms of their dying father. These are the images that push me forward on my quest to be a physician.

 

[MightyMoose]

The information that you provided is decent at best, but it doesn't take a ton of factors into consideration. It does not differentiate between RN/BSNs and RNs. It does not account for the fact that a significant number of nurses work per-diem jobs in different places. So, one might only work 40 hours per week at one job, and then work another 20-30 at a second job. Hospital nurses are notorious for jumping between the hospital and extended care facilities. Don't get me wrong nurses get paid pretty well, but there are not any rich nurses. A nurse that goes to school for four years may make 90k at the highest end. That is on par with many salaries for people with bachelor degrees. Liability for nurses has increased significantly over the past ten years. It does not match a the liability of physicians, but it is high and rising. It is clear as day that you are not a nurse and have no knowledge of what nurses actually do. Citing articles on the internet means jack ****. I am not trying to be mean....just honest.

I am not a nurse, but this question was not posted in a nursing forum either... I have tried to address the OP's question and feel that I have. I can tell you're not much for reading either, because the second article I posted covers nurses with more than one job. I am not sure where all this hostility is coming from, because at no time have I ever stated that nurses don't work, nor that they aren't respected. I have addressed their pay, hourly wages, and liability. I have also supported my data, regardless of if you like what the data shows or not.

In terms of your statement that nurses make on par with others with a bachelors degree, you're way off base. They make much more and work better hours. I know you're defending the profession and it's rigor, but these are good things. I'm not sure why you would not be happy to work in a profession with good pay and good hours, along with limited liability? The doctors path is overrated if you're going for the money. My last post was to give you an idea as to how many years you would have to work to equal your losses in income if you go the doctor route.

Here is some data about average Bachelors degree pay:

Based on number of years working after degree

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Bachelor_of_Education_%28BEd%29/Salary/by_Years_Experience

Some different field with a bachelors:

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Degree=Bachelor's_Degree/Salary

Scroll down to page 9 and multiply the number in the percentile group you are looking at by 52 (weeks).

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/wkyeng.pdf


In terms of what you are discussing for pay with a bachelors degree, I'm guessing that you are generalizing to high end degree values, such as engineering, computer science, etc.. You cannot cherry pick degrees when you are discussing average pay for a bachelors.

 

[99redballoons]

I am not a nurse, but this question was not posted in a nursing forum either... I have tried to address the OP's question and feel that I have. I can tell you're not much for reading either, because the second article I posted covers nurses with more than one job. I am not sure where all this hostility is coming from, because at no time have I ever stated that nurses don't work, nor that they aren't respected. I have addressed their pay, hourly wages, and liability. I have also supported my data, regardless of if you like what the data shows or not.

In terms of your statement that nurses make on par with others with a bachelors degree, you're way off base. They make much more and work better hours. I know you're defending the profession and it's rigor, but these are good things. I'm not sure why you would not be happy to work in a profession with good pay and good hours, along with limited liability? The doctors path is overrated if you're going for the money. My last post was to give you an idea as to how many years you would have to work to equal your losses in income if you go the doctor route.

In terms of what you are discussing for pay with a bachelors degree, I'm guessing that you are generalizing to high end degree values, such as engineering, computer science, etc.. You cannot cherry pick degrees when you are discussing average pay for a bachelors.

I was comparing to the average of bachelor degrees my friend. Nurses hunting for their first job post graduation generally make approximately $45k. That is pretty average. Maybe a tic above the rest, but for arguments sake that is pretty average. Sure its more than a low end degree like a bachelors in theater, but that is a horse**** comparison anyway. As far as better hours I am gonna be straight up and say that I think your nuts. You literally don't know squat about the profession. Limited liability compared to what professions, a doctor, maybe a dentist...No kidding. How about compared to other bachelor degrees? How much liability does a social worker, engineer, computer programmer, retail manager, accountant or teacher have? When is the last time you met an accountant that carried private malpractice insurance? When is the last time you met a retail manager who signed all his belongings over to his wife due to a personal negligence lawsuit? As I said before, you can read articles on the internet all day long. That doesn't mean you are now knowledgeable about the careers of nurses. As for hostility, this is not hostile, it is simply honest. Something I also stated before. I suppose neither of us are fans of reading...

 

[dozitgetchahi]

look i have no problems with nurses applying, and I wish you the best, but you come on here asking for opinions, then you completely disregard it spouting off like you know the answer.

the fact is, based on previous studies, that people with nursing degrees have one of the lowest matriculation rates of all other degrees. this is verifiable. the question is why. i suspect many apply not having the slightest idea of what it really takes. many shouldn't be going into medicine, many nurses don't apply. i don't have a solid answer, but don't jump down peoples throats when they tell you what the system is.

if you already know the answer, don't waste your time starting a thread.

I think one major reason for this alleged low matriculation rate is the fact that BSNs have the option of going on to become NPs. It's a very attractive option in many ways - you get to do perhaps 90% of what a doctor does (depending somewhat on specialty), and the training is far shorter. There's less liability also.

I wouldn't be surprised if those applying as BSNs get asked "why not MSN/DNP?" at the interview. If your stats are competitive, however, I don't see why you wouldn't stand a solid chance of getting in.

 

[marke]

a guy in my class was a nurse before he started med school..
his previous knowledge as a nurse definitely give him a little head start when we discussed cases in small group settings..

another guy in my class was a PT

I also have a healthcare professional degree as well..

in all honesty, i dont think it'll hurt your chances..

but you got to be prepared to answer why you decided to switch! (every interview i went, I was asked that question)

just my 2 cents

good luck!