Any PhD-only nontrads here?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

seth626

New Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
May 31, 2014
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
I'm at the very early stages of contemplating changing careers, and biomedical research is one of the fields I'm considering. Is anyone else who has been out of college for a while thinking of doing a PhD in the biological sciences? What's the best way to learn about the field and ultimately make the switch, assuming this is something I decide to pursue?

Right now, I'm thinking the best approach would be to take a couple of the basic classes at night and start reading some scientific papers. If I decide to go for it, I would then spend a year or so full time taking additional classes and volunteering in a lab to get research experience and references (basically a DIY postbac but with a PhD as the goal). Any thoughts on whether this would be sufficient preparation for grad school or ideas for alternatives?

Members don't see this ad.
 
I'll specify that I'm a PhD student in a biomedical science after doing a biology major in college. Still, I can try to offer some advice.

After my BS I was burnt out. I spent a year teaching and hated every moment of it. Seriously. Not having a job and being homeless was an appealing alternative to spending more time in public education.

I decided that a career in medicine was my calling and that I gave up on it too easily when I finished undergrad simply because I was done being a student. Hating the career options of a BS more than how tired I was of school was a great motivator. I got my credentials together, took the GRE, scraped up some LOR, and got into an MS in Biomedical Science. A few years later I'm doing a similar PhD. So the challenge of going back so to speak is something I'm familiar with.

The best way to know what you want to do, first, is just to cut to the heart of the matter. What gets you excited? What extant job is so cool that you'd do it free if you could? If it's something in biology or medicine, then start considering your options.

I'll agree that a post-bacc or something similar is probably your best option. Your biggest challenge is going to be finding experience in a lab. Many PhD programs aren't going to consider any applicants without significant (1 year or more) lab experience. Period. You could have a letter from zombie Max Delbruck but without time in a lab, most programs will send you a polite letter that starts with "Despite your otherwise impressive qualifications..." What you really need is lab experience. You need a position where you're maintaining a lab notebook, running assays, analyzing data, presenting at lab meetings, etc. Finding a regular job where you do that is extremely difficult without a graduate degree (MS or higher), and a lot of doors for volunteering in someone's lab will be closed unless you matriculate into the academic department they're appointed to. You probably don't want to hear this, but any option other than doing a second bachelor's degree will severely limit your options. I'm not saying it's impossible otherwise, but I'd put some money on that being the case.

Also, something to note. Biomedical sciences and biological sciences are rather separate fields in research. They're relatively close philosophically but you often don't see too many people moving back and forth between the two. If your goal is to work with clinical translational stuff, don't do a degree in biology. If you want to study butterflies, don't do a degree in a biomedical science.
 
Thanks for the informative reply. This is very helpful.

I had suspected that getting lab experience would be my biggest challenge. I was thinking I could enroll as a non-degree student at a local university and volunteer in a lab there. I see why it would be difficult to get a paid job in a lab without a relevant degree, but I was thinking it might be easier as a volunteer, particularly since undergrads volunteer in labs all the time. (I'm fortunate that my current job pays well and I have few expenses, so it shouldn't be too hard to save enough money to take classes and volunteer for a year if that's what I need to do.). Do you think a PI would be interested in an older volunteer like me? My only background would be the couple of basic classes that I would have taken at night. My only potentially useful skill right now is that I can code in Python -- not sure if that would make me more attractive to a PI who does bioinformatics work.

Also, can you recommend any books or other resources to learn more about what day-to-day life is like as a scientist? I obviously want to learn as much about the field as possible before making my decision. I think I'm more interested in basic science than translational research, but I'm keeping an open mind.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
You should also consider that a stable career in biomedical research is becoming increasingly more difficult to obtain.
 
You should also consider that a stable career in biomedical research is becoming increasingly more difficult to obtain.

Yeah, I'm definitely aware of that. That's true of many good careers. I think the trick is finding one you enjoy enough to put in the years of effort necessary to obtain it.

You really need to spend some time in a lab. The only way to know if you enjoy doing research is to go and do some.

I know. That's why I really wish I had considered science as a potential career while I was still in college. I have no idea how to go about spending some time in a lab while working full time, especially without the relevant background. If anyone has suggestions, I'd love to hear them.

Edited to add: I'll probably change jobs within my current field in the somewhat near future, so it may be possible for me to get a couple of months off in between. Without the relevant background, I don't know whether it would be possible to try out bench work then. I'd love to hear opinions on that if anyone has them.
 
Last edited:
Seth, if you can give me an idea of approximately how old you are and what research universities you have access to, I can give you a better answer. I'm finishing up a PhD in Biology right now.
 
Seth, if you can give me an idea of approximately how old you are and what research universities you have access to, I can give you a better answer. I'm finishing up a PhD in Biology right now.

Congrats on almost being done with your PhD. I'm 29 and live in the DC area.
 
good,I think I'm more interested in basic science than translational research, but I'm keeping an open mind.thanks
JM1IkP
 
Congrats on almost being done with your PhD. I'm 29 and live in the DC area.
Great. I only asked your age because we had a 65 year old man come in last year hoping to volunteer and get his hands wet before applying to graduate school. My advisor is an extremely liberal/progressive/open-minded woman, but even she had her limits and had to give the guy a wake-up call... It seems like you'd have good access to research labs (Hopkins/NIH or even Gtown).

The most important part of biology graduate school admission is research experience. Everything else being kosher (GPA>3.0, good personal statement, etc) traditional PhD students coming right out of college generally can be successful with 2-3 summers' worth of full time research (think 9 months total). Usually these are in different labs or internships in industry, so they get several recommendations from different PIs/group leaders. The lore is that if you can get a PI at a research university to say that they would personally advise you in their lab, you can get into that school.

It's a very fluid process when you compare it to medical school admissions, which in many respects can be extremely rigid. While medical school admissions tries to see if you'll be able to survive the mountain of coursework and exams in the coming decade, graduate schools want to assess you for the potential to stick to a very grueling project to at least finish a 6-year PhD. You should be able to demonstrate a wide range of research techniques and experience in different lab environments, presentation/writing/talking skills (aka being able to describe your projects with passion and comprehension), and very importantly: an intimate knowledge of experimental/project failure and how to overcome it without giving up.

As for biology classes, I would recommend "taking" any coursework you deem relevant just so you have the necessary basic background to understand the research going on in any labs you'll be working in (just audit classes for free - there are no formal pre-reqs for PhD programs, and we have CS/engineering majors doing Biology PhDs all the time). You can also use MIT's opencourseware to listen to lectures for free: http://ocw.mit.edu/index.htm

This is the long route - take it if you're looking to get away from what you're currently doing and move toward wet benchwork: Seek out labs who will take you as a volunteer. I would aim high in terms of caliber of school/lab. The research university is (unfortunately) an ivory tower, and once you're in (in any way) it's easier to stay in. Send out emails to groups whose research you are most passionate about/interested in. I'd be happy to proof your emails if you PM me. Ask to volunteer to do the most menial tasks (making media, petri dishes, restocking, etc). When you are in a lab, go to seminars, lab meetings, and form a relationship with your PI. Eventually you can work toward getting hired as a technician (in this lab or another lab), and usually with 1 year of solid technician work OR volunteering on a specific project, you'll be good to go in terms of credentials.

The shorter route to this is to simply take the GRE and apply to graduate school. This may possibly work if you have research experience in other fields. Explain your interest in biology (especially connecting it to your own current expertise), and meet with group leaders who would find your skills valuable. Many graduate students are coming from totally different fields and are very successful learning biology on the job.
 
Last edited:
Sorry to continue the wall of text, but two more things:
-Taking coursework for credit will be a waste of time and money. Based on where the biology field is going nowadays, labs might even prefer someone with a CS degree who can code to someone with a biology degree. You should know just enough biology to speak intelligently about your research and understand others' research. You can always learn as you go.
-Depending on what you're looking to do, it's highly likely that you will already be able to work in biology without a biology PhD given your skill set.

What's your endgame with a Biology PhD? Postdoc and academia? Industry? Consulting? Going back to medical school (cough highly inadvisable route that I am taking, ugh)?
 
Last edited:
Thanks for the awesome post, ymmit! I really learned a lot from this.

I may eventually take you up on your offer to proof emails to PIs, but I'm planning to stay in my current field for at least another year or two before taking any big steps. If I end up going the biology route, my endgame would be postdoc/academia or industry. Consulting seems way too much like my current gig (law), and I suspect I could get into it without more school anyway. And definitely not your PhD-to-med school route -- although maybe I could set the world record for years of higher education that way :p.
 
Top