Any pilots out there?

[themerlin]

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Just wondering if anybody is a pilot. I'm about to start my first year, and I have a feeling I won't be able to maintain my flight proficiency, both time-wise and money-wise. 🙁 How have you pilots out there managed to log flight time while you're in med school?

 

[southerndoc]

Med school is not that demanding for you not to be able to take an hour or two per month for flight time.

You are already a private pilot and not just doing your solo flight training right now, right?

Reward yourself after an exam with a flight.

 

[OtoNerd]

I've been a pilot for 6 years, and you SHOULD stay current. The first two years are easier than the second, but you should be able to get up there every 1-2 weeks. Depending on how busy air traffic is in your area (in LA it is extreme) and, of course, weather.

Money may be an issue if you have no income and are paying your own way through school.

Be safe, stay current, and don't fly distracted or upset (as you have already learned). There is a reason they call private aircraft "Doctor Killers"

OtoNerd B)

 

[Primate]

You should have time the first two years to fly regularly. The second two will give you time, but not as regularly (rotation dependent). You should go for an MD/PhD and then you'll have time AND money. 😉 😉

I got my license during my first two years (seems like a long time ago). I would recommend NOT flying after exams. I learned that one the hard way (well, sort of - got a little behind the plane on a cross country and I think it was because I was too tired). IMSAFE works. Anywho, just got signed off on my BFR. Wish I had more time, but there's enough.

As far as money goes, the stafford rates are pretty low. 😉

Blue skies,
P

PS - any pilots in Philly looking to share time?

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

Originally posted by Primate


Anywho, just got signed off on my BFR. Wish I had more time, but there's enough.

You just got signed off on your BFR? Not sure I've ever heard of that one, though I haven't flown in a while, so its all starting to get fuzzy.

I like the idea of paying for flight time with student loans, but I'm not sure I could justify it. I think I'd regret it 5 yrs from now when that $65 I spent to joyride in a Piper has become $150 after interest. 😱

HamOn
INST, COM, CFI, MEI, working on CFII

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

Oh right... Biennial Flight Review. I remember those. You'll have to pardon me, I'm getting a little senile.

HamOn

 

[Primate]

Originally posted by HamOnWholeWheat
Oh right... Biennial Flight Review. I remember those. You'll have to pardon me, I'm getting a little senile.

HamOn

Pardons all around. Too many acronyms to keep track of between medicine and flight!

Avoid the BFR, get the double I (no need for a review with new ratings/priveledges etc.).

Keep the oily side down,
P

 

[themerlin]

Yes, I do have my private pilot's license. I'm just finding it hard to justify spending ~$60 an hour to fly, when I have to support myself entirely through my four years of med school. Each hour is worth several meals!

Like HamOn, I hesitate to take the "play now pay later" approach. What do you guys think--would it be a terrible idea to let my flying skills lapse for four years until I can pick up flying again after med school?

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

Originally posted by themerlin
Yes, I do have my private pilot's license. I'm just finding it hard to justify spending ~$60 an hour to fly, when I have to support myself entirely through my four years of med school. Each hour is worth several meals!

Like HamOn, I hesitate to take the "play now pay later" approach. What do you guys think--would it be a terrible idea to let my flying skills lapse for four years until I can pick up flying again after med school?

As much as I'd like to preach about the importance of staying current, its really not. In my opinion, the skills you learn from VFR flying are really going to deteriorate from a leave of absence. I think you'll find that if you take a month off of flying, your skills will deteriorate nearly as much as if you take a year off. All that you're really going to lose is a little of the "feel" aspect, and the situational awareness to a degree.

All this means is that when you finally do have time to get back in the saddle, you may have to get some more dual instruction before you feel confident in your skills again, but it shouldn't take more than a few hours of dual to accomplish this.

As Primate eluded to, if you let two years lapse without a BFR, your BFR becomes more of a Private Pilot Checkride (minus the VOR and DME navigation components). So you'll be able to tell from that how much (if any) instruction you need to feel confident again.

Also keep in mind, if you had your Instrument Rating I would be giving you different advice. I would never recommend taking of year off from flying if your instrument is in danger of lapsing. No-one should have to go through another instrument checkride.... nobody (* shudders at the thought of doing partial panel DME approaches *). Instrument skills could definitely deteriorate over time, and once you have those, it would be a real shame to have to pay to re-learn the technique.


Hope this helps,

HamOn

 

[themerlin]

Wait a minute, you mean if I don't do my BFRs during my four years of med school, I'm going to have to do another checkride when I finally pick up flying again? That would certainly change things!

What about flying in volunteer organizations like the Civil Air Patrol? Would they be a cheaper way to fly?

 

[Primate]

CAP is cheaper ($70 wet for proficiency in a nice 172, typically), but you need a certain amount of hours to qualify to fly for them (if I recall correctly). It's a great way to stay in the air, though - even if you don't act as PIC, you can fly as an observer.

As far as having to take a checkride if you lapse, that's basically only true for the instrument rating. For the private, the BFR is as much brushing up time as you need to be safe in the air again.

I hadn't flown since 9/11 (yes, THAT 9/11 - I was making instrument approaches in North Jersey at 0800 - but that's a different story) until my recent BFR (airport closed, needed the money, had another kid, finished a PhD - got too busy and poor for a bit). When my BFR was due, I read a ton and did alot of mental practice - then did ground and a LONG 3 hour flight. Kind of like riding a bike - it all came back and I got my sign off. NB - I WILL NOT TAKE PASSENGERS UNTIL I GET MORE HOURS (prolly a few more with an instructor even). So, no, letting skills lapse doesn't mean loosing them (though I echo the IFR sentiments). Only you know just what it'll take to keep SAFE (as opposed to legal).

As far as borrowing money to fly, that was mostly tongue in cheek. Although..... 😉

GAWD, I love to fly.

Keep the shiny side up,
P

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

Originally posted by themerlin
Wait a minute, you mean if I don't do my BFRs during my four years of med school, I'm going to have to do another checkride when I finally pick up flying again? That would certainly change things!

What about flying in volunteer organizations like the Civil Air Patrol? Would they be a cheaper way to fly?

If your 2 yrs lapse without doing a BFR, it has to be done with an FAA instructor (if memory serves, but check the FAR's to be sure). Its not technically a checkride, it just usually ends up being more intense than just doing a BFR with any old CFI. To echo what Primate was getting at, its still not that bad though. If you passed a checkride once, you can pass a BFR without too much trouble, given your head's in the game. I've never had to do a BFR though, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

CAP service varies from unit to unit. Here in Iowa, minimums for CAP are 250hrs, with 15hrs instrument time. Why they require IFR time beats the hell outta me, but that's the way it is out here. The airplane would then cost $45/hr wet for a VFR equipped (!!!) Cessna 152. So its not a great deal. Plus, you have to go to the meetings, which would be enough to dissuade most people from ever wanting to fly again anyway.

Hey Primate, have you done any commercial flying? Why medicine if you like flying so much? Just curious, because I'm essentially in the same boat. I got out of charter flying after 9/11 (something about making $5/hr to begin with and then getting cut to 10hrs/wk from 60).

HamOn

 

[Primate]

Originally posted by HamOnWholeWheat
Plus, you have to go to the meetings, which would be enough to dissuade most people from ever wanting to fly again anyway.

True dat!

Hey Primate, have you done any commercial flying? Why medicine if you like flying so much? Just curious, because I'm essentially in the same boat. I got out of charter flying after 9/11 (something about making $5/hr to begin with and then getting cut to 10hrs/wk from 60).

HamOn

I was only a few hours away from the Instrument/Comm check ride when 9/11 occurred and scotched any training from my home 'drome (under a class B) for a couple months. Haven't had the time/inclination to pick up the serious training again (I had alot more time when I was in the lab than I do in the clinic now). It'll happen after PGY-1 - until then, I'm happy just flying when I can and not pushing for a new rating/ticket yet.

As far as flying for a career, well that's a tougher one. Had I found out about the ANG a few years earlier, there is NO DOUBT I'd be doing that as a side career while also doing medicine (though it would've been a time stretch). As is, I'm now too old to fly military (s/p my 34th b-day now), so that's out. As for commercial flying, these are not (as you alluded to) the best of times for such activities.

More to the point, I absolutely love aviation and nearly all things concerning it. However, I also think medicine/science/research/teaching is a gas. Given my personality, etc., it just seemed to make sense to keep medicine as my vocation and aviation as a strong avocation. I do hope to combine them in future by becoming an AME and getting my double-I (for instance, taking on a few students on Sat/Sun morning and perhaps an evening a week). One of the many reasons I like Ophtho (where I'm likely headed at the end of this MSIII/IV madness) is the ability to eventually do just this. Besides, the MD/PhD thing is already a second career for me - how many can you have before people begin to wonder?!?!! 😉

Vole impune
P

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

.

 

[Iain]

I am a pilot (not that I am going to med school or anything). To clear a mistake posted earlier - you would not need to re take a checkride if let your BFR lapse, you are just unable to operate as PIC without a current BFR. REMEMBER YOUR LICENSE WILL NEVER EXPIRE (ground school anyone???).

When I did my undergrad in the UK I went months (3-6) without flying and my best advice is to chair fly before you go and take an instructor or pilot friend if it would make you feel more comfortable. I usually flew the pattern or just short local flights to keep it cheap and to get the most flying per $$. And most importantly keep it simple no flights with your buddies to LAS over mountains at night, etc!!!

I am super busy with work and polo right now, so I have not been able to fly nearly as much as I would like. What I plan on doing is flyign every month or so, and doing a $100 hamburger run with an instructor. I love flying, and I just want to keep my foot in the door and enjoy it!! When I move back to the UK (in the next 5 years) I hope to get into hot air ballooning - that looks like the most fun bueatiful scenery and peace and quiet.

 

[Primate]

Originally posted by Primate

As far as having to take a checkride if you lapse, that's basically only true for the instrument rating. For the private, the BFR is as much brushing up time as you need to be safe in the air again.

Like I said, no checkride for a BFR - you DO need to fly well enough to get a sign off. If your skills are so rusty that you are not safe, then you basically have to perform to private standards on everything. Any instructor who would sign you off after a lengthy lay-off without making sure you can perform is negligent (and liable).

As for the instrument, don't you have to perform an instrument proficiency check (the full equivalent of a checkride) if you lapse by 4 years? That's my recollection from ground school.

No one mentioned loosing your ticket, per se, as I recall.

You are definitely right that tickets don't expire. The only way to loose one is to have it yanked (God forbid!).

Maybe not - lemme know if I'm off base.

P

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

Originally posted by Primate

As for the instrument, don't you have to perform an instrument proficiency check (the full equivalent of a checkride) if you lapse by 4 years? That's my recollection from ground school.

P

Actually, you have to do an instrument proficiency check (given by an FAA examiner) if you don't meet the minimum experience requirements with in the preceding 6 MONTHS. Those requirements are something like 6 approaches with holds and a minimum number of VOR intercepts and tracks. So technically, if you don't spend your precious cash flying ever-so-boring approaches, you lose PIC IFR privileges after 6 months and have to re-check anyway. I'm sure it wouldn't be as difficult as your original checkride, but it would still be a major pain in the keister. There's no way I'm going to be able to stay current on the instrument rating in med school, so I'm going to just fly VFR, if ever, over the next year or so. There's always plenty of time to catch up on joyriding later.


HamOn

 

[IOE]

I'm green with envy!!!!!🙄

I can't even fly a kite!!!!

but guess what....I believe i can....i believe i can touch the sky....i think about it every now n then.....spread my hunds and etc etc etc...

 

[Primate]

Yeah, I know it's significantly less than 4 years - I was just saying if you didn't fly AT ALL during med school that it'd be 4 years (for most 😉 ). That's one of the reasons I was OK not going back to the instrument training (until after PGY-1, anyway). Seemed silly to spend the $$ on finishing and then have to fly with an FAA DE again ANYWAY - eek. I'm all for the VFR for now, too.

Lemme know if you ever fly out to Philly. 😀

Excuse me while I kiss the sky.

P

 

[Pilot]

Haven't flown since started medical school (3 & 1/2 years ago). Still carry my license in my wallet though. And I have the best User name in this forum.....

 

[lumanyika]

At last..some flying enthusiasts on SDN😀 i received my PPL in East Africa and the coversion process wasn't that bad (had to brush up on my Meteorology though ) since the minimum requirement for the PPL was 55 hours (i think this is a British thing). i thought the most challenging part of the whole was moving from an area of almost non existant traffic to an area of intense traffic....that was a shocker to say the least!
i'm planning on working with the "flying doctors service" when i go back. nothing beats bush flying!

PEACE!