Any point being a member of the AMA?

[PatrickBateman]

Other than a regular supply of free JAMA's are there any real benefits to being a member of the AMA during residency? What are they?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Gfunk6]

You get some pretty sweet discounts w/ certain organizations. I pay ~$350 less/year in auto insurance for example. You also get discounts for air travel and car rental, among other things.

 

[p53]

Other than a regular supply of free JAMA's are there any real benefits to being a member of the AMA during residency? What are they?

Cute AMA Sticker for the car

 

[Dr Trek 1]

It is also easier for patients/doctors to see your listing at www.ama-assn.org. Your listing pops up without them having to click on "See non-AMA physicians."

 

[edmadison]

I joined because my state required an AMA physician's profile which is free for members otherwise you have to pay.

 

[flighterdoc]

I joined because my state required an AMA physician's profile which is free for members otherwise you have to pay.

What state? And how much does it cost, vs. the membership?

 

[Debridement]

Other than a regular supply of free JAMA's are there any real benefits to being a member of the AMA during residency? What are they?

None. You are better off joining whatever specialty organization your specialty has. E.g. AAP (Peds), AAOS (Ortho) ACS (Gen Surg), AANS (Neurosurg) so on and so forth...

 

[Apollyon]

I joined because my state required an AMA physician's profile which is free for members otherwise you have to pay.

I think it's cheaper to just get the profile. Screw the AMA - listless bastards.

 

[3dtp]

None. You are better off joining whatever specialty organization your specialty has. E.g. AAP (Peds), AAOS (Ortho) ACS (Gen Surg), AANS (Neurosurg) so on and so forth...

Agreed. None.

 

[CNphair]

None. I have yet to see an AMA "representative" on the news who bore even the slightest resemblance to myself...or my interests.

 

[deuist]

I don't belong to AMA, but my roommate does. We have a nice stack of unread JAMAs lying around the house. I'm sure that if we ever get caught in a blizzard, we could use them to heat the home and wait out the storm.

 

[fomites]

the AMA is lame. Way too influenced by big corporations and $. Little power to effect change.

joining is a waste of money

 

[b&ierstiefel]

Agree too. No point in joining AMA.

 

[Mumpu]

Join your professional organization. You'll get the same kinds of deals and discounts plus a more relevant journal.

We get free AMA membership during med school. Mine's about to lapse. It's just another damn self-serving lobbying group and their journal is rather mediocre (and can be had for free online through the library anyway if I wanted to read another biased ALLHAT trial).

 

[tibor75]

Join your professional organization. You'll get the same kinds of deals and discounts plus a more relevant journal.

We get free AMA membership during med school. Mine's about to lapse. It's just another damn self-serving lobbying group and their journal is rather mediocre (and can be had for free online through the library anyway if I wanted to read another biased ALLHAT trial).

ALLHAT biased?

spoken like somebody who has no idea how to read and understand clinical trials.

 

[Mumpu]

I don't feed the trolls.

 

[penguins]

Agreed, no point in joining AMA. If you do, be sure you read all their fine print and discover what it is that you are supporting before you join. You might surprised - or pleased - depending on you.

I joined CMDA - Christian Medical and Dental Association. It is $90 (I think?) for a residency membership. I like it because your voice does matter and they offer a lot of support. I may not agree with everything they support (do agree with most of it) but because it is smaller and has a completely different philosophy than the AMA, you actually have some input. They hook you up with a doc at your new program, send monthly "newsletter" audio cds, and they have great conferences about time management, marriage stuff, missions, local outreach programs, get discounts on stuff, etc.
Check it out:
CMDA

 

[Gauss]

it's tax deductible

 

[tibor75]

I don't feed the trolls.

Nice response, considering you can't defend the ridiculous viewpoint that ALLHAT is poorly designed study.

Next.

 

[Mumpu]

You've pretty much ruined your reputation on SDN with your attacks on PandaBear and others. No point in talking to you -- you'll just flame me no matter what I say.

 

[sophiejane]

It's really important to join the AMA and/or AOA. Both organizations are full of problems and inefficiencies, but then, so is the federal government. And right now, both of these organizations are all we've really got as far as a voice on Capitol Hill. They have the most money and in Washington, as everywhere, money=power. The smaller organizations just don't have the clout. Period.

I think we're all grown up enough to be over the joining organizations for the free mugs and stickers like we did as MSI's. At least I hope so.

If you still don't understand why doctors need a voice in Washington, well, just stay tuned...

 

[surg]

To provide a counterpoint to the initial responders. The AMA continues to be the best funded and best connected lobbying group for physicians and sometimes for patients as well.

For physicians:
Pocketbook:
While, it may not seem like a lot to you as a student or a resident, the successive fights to restore funding for physician services each of the past years has resulted in a payment freeze or slight increase in each of the past 4 or 5 years (except once). This is instead of a >4% decrease/year that would have happened. This was a net swing of $10k/yr that this occurred in physicians' pockets.

The fight to limit medical malpractice liabilities has resulted in the passage of tort reform in a number of states. This would not have happened without the respective state medical societies and the AMA. Federal reform continues to be stalled however, so more work needs to be done.

Sometimes the best work the AMA does is preventing laws and regulations from getting passed that would make our lives more difficult. In my time, I can't count the number of stupid ideas I have seen floated in Congress or in HHS. Many of these were quashed by the AMA's connections on the Hill.

For residents:
While the AMA was late to the game on work hour reforms, it was their conversion that helped convince the ACGME that this had to happen at that time.

The AMA worked diligently (and was successful) on increasing the income cap that you could deduct student interest, and removing the 60 month limit that you could do this for. (As an attending you will still probably exceed the cap, but at least as a resident you won't). It was also instrumental in increasing the levels at which deferral and forbearance would be allowed on student loans in residency.

The AMA provides a voice to residents that few specialties allow. It is one of the few major organizations that reserves a spot for residents at almost every level of leadership and gives them full voting privileges for all levels.

As far as tangible benefits, I would say that this is not a strong reason to join the organization. The only unique things really are you get JAMA, American Medical News, and online access to all the Archives Journals. Yes you can get discounts on car, life, and disability insurance (although if you shop diligently you can probably score similar prices without these discounts IMHO). There are also an assortment of discounts on car rental, mortgage, etc. but again no better than you could probably get through joining Costco or something like that for a similar price.

I definitely don't agree with everything the AMA has done in my name, but the policies are arrived at democratically, and I have seen the policies change over the years. Things don't change overnight, but when you can get the AMA motivated, it is amazing what they can accomplish.

I also joined my specialty societies. This is not an either or thing. I'd venture a guess that most physicians end up a member of about 3-6 societies. Between my specialty and subspecialty, I already am a member of something like 4 societies, and will end up with probably 2 or 3 more over the long haul. Adding on the AMA is just my small contribution to what I hope will make a difference.

 

[organicmatter]

The AMA and state medical societies do much more for physician and patient interests than you may be aware. Go to your state medical society web site to see or to the AMAs website. I agree with a previous poster: unfortunately, in Washington, lobby groups such as the AMA have great influence on legislation. It is important to support the AMA financially even if you don't agree completely with their agenda.

 

[penguins]

It's really important to join the AMA and/or AOA. Both organizations are full of problems and inefficiencies, but then, so is the federal government. And right now, both of these organizations are all we've really got as far as a voice on Capitol Hill. They have the most money and in Washington, as everywhere, money=power. The smaller organizations just don't have the clout. Period.

I think we're all grown up enough to be over the joining organizations for the free mugs and stickers like we did as MSI's. At least I hope so.

If you still don't understand why doctors need a voice in Washington, well, just stay tuned...

You shouldn't just pay any voice to speak for you. It is important to know what that mouthpiece is saying on your behalf.
It is silly to think that the AMA is really working for you and even sillier to joing an organization for the reasons that you listed.
Why don't you get active as an individual rather than pay a great big organization to do the work and the thinking for you.

 

[sophiejane]

You shouldn't just pay any voice to speak for you. It is important to know what that mouthpiece is saying on your behalf.

You are assuming I don't know what the AMA is saying. Assumptions are dangerous.

It is silly to think that the AMA is really working for you

Elaborate please...??

Why don't you get active as an individual rather than pay a great big organization to do the work and the thinking for you.

I am active as an individual, and I think for myself more than you apparently assume I do. For instance, I am involved in AMSA, which has views quite different from the AMA, but the AMA serves its purpose, too. I'm a member of both.

It just makes practical sense to combine the collective voice of the physician to work for a few issues that we the majority of physicians favor, like tort reform.

 

[FACS]

Agreed, no point in joining AMA. If you do, be sure you read all their fine print and discover what it is that you are supporting before you join. You might surprised - or pleased - depending on you.

I joined CMDA - Christian Medical and Dental Association. It is $90 (I think?) for a residency membership. I like it because your voice does matter and they offer a lot of support. I may not agree with everything they support (do agree with most of it) but because it is smaller and has a completely different philosophy than the AMA, you actually have some input. They hook you up with a doc at your new program, send monthly "newsletter" audio cds, and they have great conferences about time management, marriage stuff, missions, local outreach programs, get discounts on stuff, etc.
Check it out:
CMDA

Really, what kind of things would I find in the "fine print" that I'd be supporting. Are you just talking about their stance on choice??

 

[Mumpu]

I'll join AMA when they actually accomplish something. Been a member for four years now. The extent of medical reforms in this country over that time has been zilch.

The AMA is a lobbying group and no different from pharma, insurance, or oil industry lobbyists -- it serves to protect the financial interests of its members with no regard for the impact on general population or interest in reforms without direct and tangible benefits. Certainly that's the impression I've been consistently left with from their agendas.

 

[Mumpu]

CMDA is anti-abortion... big surprise. Nice to know they're pro-withdrawal of medically futile care. Nice to know they loudly spoke up about this during the Schiavo thing when everyone else was quoting the Bible. Or not.

 

[penguins]

Really, what kind of things would I find in the "fine print" that I'd be supporting. Are you just talking about their stance on choice??

I am not going to go into it issue by issue because that would be pointless and just start unrelated debate.
If you agree with what they stand for, then support them. It just irritates me when people join a club based on tradition and the promise of advocacy without really bothering to educate themselves on what they are a part of.
Hmmm, yep, "choice" -as you call it- would be a big one. Although it certainly isn't the only one.

And SophieJane, there are other ways to support tort reform without doing it through the AMA. I was part of a big capital white coat walk in and met with Reps as part of a different group. If you like the AMA, fine join and be happy. Just join for the right reasons and do your homework. If you have, great. More power to you.

 

[penguins]

CMDA is anti-abortion... big surprise. Nice to know they're pro-withdrawal of medically futile care. Nice to know they loudly spoke up about this during the Schiavo thing when everyone else was quoting the Bible. Or not.

Actually, they were extremely vocal about the case. I disagreed with them, however. They were on the side of her family. Not necessarily that she should be kept alive, but they did not think the decisions were being made by the right people - thought her parents should have more say since the husband essentially had a "new wife" and children with her.
I disagreed with them on that, but they were extremely vocal and involved. Dr. Cheshire from Mayo was on the news alot from there.
Usually they are very pro-withdrawl of medically futile care.

 

[FACS]

I am not going to go into it issue by issue because that would be pointless and just start unrelated debate.
If you agree with what they stand for, then support them. It just irritates me when people join a club based on tradition and the promise of advocacy without really bothering to educate themselves on what they are a part of.
Hmmm, yep, "choice" -as you call it- would be a big one. Although it certainly isn't the only one.

Hmmm, what might the others be. Gay rights?, equal opportunity for women? advocacy for the poor?

So the AMA is socially libertarian. If that bothers you then get over it. Pick your battles. These are minor issues compared with the wholesale rape that the healthcare industry is subjected to by insurance companies. Try to keep your eye on the big picture. 😉

 

[penguins]

So the AMA is socially libertarian. If that bothers you then get over it. Pick your battles. These are minor issues compared with the wholesale rape that the healthcare industry is subjected to by insurance companies. Try to keep your eye on the big picture. 😉

I suppose we have different opinions of what is minor and what the "big picture" is.
I guess what really matters is if you are going to take a stand or not. If the AMA agrees with you, then by all means stand with them. That wasn't the point. The point is read before you blindly join up with them. Be an informed member.
I will not get over it and turn a blind eye. I did pick my battle! This is it (or one of them)

 

[CameronFrye]

If you read the Social Transformation of American Medicine (it's a history of the american medical system from the 1700's to the early 80's and I highly recommend it), you can see how important it is to have a single unified voice. The AMA was a dominant lobby in the early 20th century and is one of the biggest reasons that physicians in this country play the role that they do. The AMA crushed any competing interests and helped maintain the monopoly physicians in this country had on medical care. While you can debate the AMA's tactics, American doctors became the highest compensated in the world and had the most autonomy. Although the AMA's strength has declined, they are still the only medical lobby with any real clout. The subspecialty associations are not going to have the power to go up against some of the other lobbies (drug, insurance, etc). While getting involved on an individual level is great, it's not going to accomplish a whole lot.

 

[Mumpu]

So what you are saying is that AMA is the reason why the healthcare system is so effed-up today. Remember kids, it was the out-of-control "bill whatever I want" doctor incomes that led to the whole insurance industry revolution and the advent of HMOs as means of controlling costs.

In the 1960s-1980s, AMA had the power to establish a healthcare system in this country. Instead, they acted like every other lobbying group and focused on protecting and increasing physicians' incomes at everyone else's expense. Yeah, I'd love to be a member of the organization that ruined American healthcare.

 

[FACS]

The point is read before you blindly join up with them. Be an informed member.
I will not get over it and turn a blind eye. I did pick my battle! This is it (or one of them)

Eh, who said I didn't read before I joined? You're making a big assumption there. 😉 I simply asked a poster what it was in the AMA's "fine print" that was so objectionable to him. When I went to the AMA website to read what they were about I didn't actually notice any "fine print" at all.

I'm also a little curious what exactly IS this battle that you picked. What's your major disagreement? I don't think you actually mentioned what it was.

 

[Orange Julius]

If you read the Social Transformation of American Medicine (it's a history of the american medical system from the 1700's to the early 80's and I highly recommend it), you can see how important it is to have a single unified voice. The AMA was a dominant lobby in the early 20th century and is one of the biggest reasons that physicians in this country play the role that they do. The AMA crushed any competing interests and helped maintain the monopoly physicians in this country had on medical care. While you can debate the AMA's tactics, American doctors became the highest compensated in the world and had the most autonomy. Although the AMA's strength has declined, they are still the only medical lobby with any real clout. The subspecialty associations are not going to have the power to go up against some of the other lobbies (drug, insurance, etc). While getting involved on an individual level is great, it's not going to accomplish a whole lot.

👍 Exactly. Unity is strength.

 

[penguins]

Eh, who said I didn't read before I joined? You're making a big assumption there. 😉 I simply asked a poster what it was in the AMA's "fine print" that was so objectionable to him. When I went to the AMA website to read what they were about I didn't actually notice any "fine print" at all.

I'm also a little curious what exactly IS this battle that you picked. What's your major disagreement? I don't think you actually mentioned what it was.

Wasn't saying "YOU" didn't read.
"fine print" was a figure of speech.
I don't have the energy right now to pick the fight that would start if I detailed everything about them I don't like. Besides, their support of abortion is enough for me to not have anything to do with them. However, there is a lot more than that. It is up to you (as you,FACS, have done) to read what they are about and decide if you like what they stand for. I did it and there were way too many things I didn't want on my conscience.
The "battle" that I picked was that I am not going to shut up about my distain for the AMA. You implied that it was not worth it for me to disagree with them when you said I should pick my battles. It came across as condescending, BTW.

You be happy member. I don't want to continue a thread arguing the points about the AMA. The point was that you (not YOU, but a generally "you" referring to those that read) should know what you are signing up with, whether it be the AMA, ACP, AMSA, CAGW, Donkey or Elephants.

 

[penguins]

👍 Exactly. Unity is strength.

Teddy Roosevelt once said,
"A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."

Large lobbying groups with lots of strength remind me of a rifle as well.

 

[CameronFrye]

So what you are saying is that AMA is the reason why the healthcare system is so effed-up today. Remember kids, it was the out-of-control "bill whatever I want" doctor incomes that led to the whole insurance industry revolution and the advent of HMOs as means of controlling costs.

In the 1960s-1980s, AMA had the power to establish a healthcare system in this country. Instead, they acted like every other lobbying group and focused on protecting and increasing physicians' incomes at everyone else's expense. Yeah, I'd love to be a member of the organization that ruined American healthcare.

That's certainly one way to look at it (and some parts of the book will probably make you cringe when you see alternate paths that could've been taken). That being said, the AMA also pushed rules and laws that I think most of us would agree with (the exclusion of "quacks" from practicing medicine, a lot of the original regulations on drug companies, etc.). Also, I don't think the AMA deserves all the blame for the current health care system. All events take place in a broader context and there were multiple factors that led to our current system.

As an aside, I found it interesting that the AMA originally supported some form of universal health care in the early 20th century, but companies and unions opposed it, b/c they wanted to offer health insurance to their employees/members to increase loyalty.

 

[Orange Julius]

Teddy Roosevelt once said,
"A vote is like a rifle, its usefulness depends upon the character of the user."

Large lobbying groups with lots of strength remind me of a rifle as well.

Exactly. Lobby's are a weapon. Trial lawers and insurance companies are armed to the teeth. If we don't act in self defence our profession will continue to take fire from all sides. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp.

Perhaps you think that physicians have less "character" than trial lawers and insurance companies. That's just odd.

 

[FACS]

Wasn't saying "YOU" didn't read.

You be happy member. I don't want to continue a thread arguing the points about the AMA. The point was that you (not YOU, but a generally "you" referring to those that read) should know what you are signing up with.

Thank you. I'm glad you clarified that. Communication is an art. For the future, you might want to think about how you could word your statements more accurately. It's not hard. It just takes a little effort.

I respect your right to opt out of physician lobby groups for ethical reasons. I don't happen to have issue with any of the social policies of the AMA. However, I would still give my support if they changed their stance on choice and other social issues. I feel that the survival of our profession and the presence of a viable lobby group should take priority. You could liken it to supporting your country in a time of war, in spite of not agreeing with everything it stands far. But that's just my position. I respect that you disagree.

 

[Mumpu]

I'm glad AMA banned quacks. Otherwise we'd have rampant chiropractors and naturopaths irradiating people's blood with UV light and handing out herbs instead of cancer cures. I'd hate to see that happen.

 

[penguins]

Thank you. I'm glad you clarified that. Communication is an art. For the future, you might want to think about how you could word your statements more accurately. It's not hard. It just takes a little effort.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[penguins]

Exactly. Lobby's are a weapon. Trial lawers and insurance companies are armed to the teeth. If we don't act in self defence our profession will continue to take fire from all sides. It's not really a difficult concept to grasp.

Perhaps you think that physicians have less "character" than trial lawers and insurance companies. That's just odd.

Won't pretend to understand where you got that idea. 🙄

 

[lateness]

So what you are saying is that AMA is the reason why the healthcare system is so effed-up today. Remember kids, it was the out-of-control "bill whatever I want" doctor incomes that led to the whole insurance industry revolution and the advent of HMOs as means of controlling costs.

In the 1960s-1980s, AMA had the power to establish a healthcare system in this country. Instead, they acted like every other lobbying group and focused on protecting and increasing physicians' incomes at everyone else's expense. Yeah, I'd love to be a member of the organization that ruined American healthcare.

dont forget the crooked lawyers who got rich on suing every thing that moved....(or didnt move).. bye bye malpractice 😕

 

[Mumpu]

Well no, it was the patients who sued. The perceptions of physicians being extremely wealthy and arrogant probably had something to do with that. And the AMA waited until the docs started to get driven out of some areas by malpractice rates before getting off its lazy arse.

 

[jimbobb23]

I did it for the JAMAs.

As for the Association, they are suicidal. They push two mutually exclusive lobbying efforts - universal care funded by government and high wages. The universal care will win since other people besides the AMA care about that, and the AMA will wonder why they got stabbed in the back in wages. So naive. Anyway, if you can stomach their bizarre lobbying approach its not a bad idea.

 

[EctopicFetus]

Outside of JAMA there is no value to being an AMA member. They do things that are dumb..

 

[Mumpu]

Outside of JAMA there is no value to being an AMA member. They do things that are dumb..

Inside the JAMA it's too dark to read.

 

[flighterdoc]

Inside the JAMA it's too dark to read.

LOL. Say the magic woyd and win a million dollars 👍