Any Sabbath observers out there?

[nmr81889]

I'm currently a second year and I'll be starting rotations at the end of July. I'm a Christian that observes the Sabbath (Saturday), as well as the annual biblical holy days. I figure I'm probably going to run into some issues on rotations, so I was wondering if there are any third and fourth years out there (Christian, Jewish, etc) that also observe the Sabbath that might have some advice.

Thanks in advance for any input!

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[BigRedBeta]

I'm currently a second year and I'll be starting rotations at the end of July. I'm a Christian that observes the Sabbath (Saturday), as well as the annual biblical holy days. I figure I'm probably going to run into some issues on rotations, so I was wondering if there are any third and fourth years out there (Christian, Jewish, etc) that also observe the Sabbath that might have some advice.

Thanks in advance for any input!

The high holy days are probably easier, it's the Saturdays that will be the biggest issue.

There are two things to consider about your situation...as a student, you can likely talk to your school and get some sort of exemption that will allow you to continue your observances. However, as a resident...that's an entirely different situation.

In both cases people are going to be resentful at some point - as a student, it's likely just your fellow students, typically when they have some event on a Saturday that they're hoping to make and you will make them be the student who works that day. Your residents and attendings are not too likely to care unless they have reason to believe that you're taking advantage of the situation (even if you're not and are otherwise taking your turn to work on Sundays).

The bigger issue is when you're a resident. The requirements of being a resident in many fields simply require you to sacrifice yourself in a number of different ways. When you only have 4 days off a month, there's simply no way to not make sacrifices. And as I'm sure you can imagine if you're on a team with 1 upper level resident and 2 or 3 interns, that's 3 or 4 people who are going to want to enjoy a weekend day off. In other programs that operate under the "golden weekend" structure, the ward schedule structure is going to require you to be on call one Friday night, one Saturday, one Sunday on different weekends and having the 4th weekend completely free. I suppose it's possible that depending on what field you want to enter, you might find some more flexibility, but there's simply no way that you'll make through an entire training program without having to work on some Saturday.

My advice to you is to accept what the realities are of being a trainee and that it's a temporary situation. Once you're an attending, you can set your schedule. But as a trainee...you have to be a team player, you have to be there for your patients, and you have to be dedicated to your own education.

 

[Zuhal]

The high holy days are probably easier, it's the Saturdays that will be the biggest issue.

There are two things to consider about your situation...as a student, you can likely talk to your school and get some sort of exemption that will allow you to continue your observances. However, as a resident...that's an entirely different situation.

In both cases people are going to be resentful at some point - as a student, it's likely just your fellow students, typically when they have some event on a Saturday that they're hoping to make and you will make them be the student who works that day. Your residents and attendings are not too likely to care unless they have reason to believe that you're taking advantage of the situation (even if you're not and are otherwise taking your turn to work on Sundays).

The bigger issue is when you're a resident. The requirements of being a resident in many fields simply require you to sacrifice yourself in a number of different ways. When you only have 4 days off a month, there's simply no way to not make sacrifices. And as I'm sure you can imagine if you're on a team with 1 upper level resident and 2 or 3 interns, that's 3 or 4 people who are going to want to enjoy a weekend day off. In other programs that operate under the "golden weekend" structure, the ward schedule structure is going to require you to be on call one Friday night, one Saturday, one Sunday on different weekends and having the 4th weekend completely free. I suppose it's possible that depending on what field you want to enter, you might find some more flexibility, but there's simply no way that you'll make through an entire training program without having to work on some Saturday.

My advice to you is to accept what the realities are of being a trainee and that it's a temporary situation. Once you're an attending, you can set your schedule. But as a trainee...you have to be a team player, you have to be there for your patients, and you have to be dedicated to your own education.

BigRedBeta is right, you might have problems as a resident (though I wouldn't know this for sure as I'm not there yet) but I can tell you that most people I've met are very understanding and very tolerant when it comes to these kind of religious issues.
Be ready and wiling to do "favors" for other students because chances are you're going to need their help at one point or another.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Our medicine clerkship didn't give alloted time off for Easter or Good Friday. Thankfully my day off fell on Sunday, so I never had to ask, but my sense is that certain holidays generally receive more "understanding" from the administration. Every Saturday may be hard.

There was an Orthodox Jewish resident at my medical center who had an accommodation provided for him, where he did floor "work" on Saturdays but didn't document anything/write prescriptions/put in orders. It was some sort of arrangement where colleagues or nurses or someone did the writing, while he did the workup and assessment.

At some point, religion can be incompatible with a career in medicine. There was a Muslim student at my medical school who requested to be exempt from seeing male patients. The medical school refused and told her to pay or play. She came round and saw male patients. I think she initially wanted to go into ob/gyn to deal with the issues, but eventually chose PM&R.

 

[Textbookversion]

Give me a heads up because I'll add needing weekends off to my pastafarian belief system if you manage to get accommodation.

 

[thedoctor8706]

I am an SDA and keep Saturday as the Sabbath. I am also less than a month away from 3rd year starting, so we are in the same position. Now, I'm not trying to turn this into a debate on theology or something, but I'll share how I am going to approach the situation, which may be different from how you practice your faith, but that's ok, this is just my opinion.

The silly thing about humanity is that it never stop having babies, never stops getting infected, never stops being stupid, etc etc etc... If you'll remember the story in Mark 3:1-6, Jesus took a lot of crap for healing someone on the Sabbath. But He turned around and said something that seems like common sense to me. If you find someone in need, are you going to ignore him or her just because it's the Sabbath? As future physicians, we are receiving an incredible amount of knowledge and training we can use to do just that: help out our fellow man. So I personally have no problem with doing some rotations on the Sabbath, or shifts as a resident. You won't find me waking up to study or do some Qbank questions if I have a Saturday off, but I feel like going in to heal like Jesus did is a more than acceptable use of the Sabbath (even if I'm just going to be a scut monkey or something). It's not a rationalization or compromise, I truly believe that's where I should be!

Maybe you feel differently, and that's ok, just thought I would share my view on the matter

 

[Zuhal]

I am an SDA and keep Saturday as the Sabbath. I am also less than a month away from 3rd year starting, so we are in the same position. Now, I'm not trying to turn this into a debate on theology or something, but I'll share how I am going to approach the situation, which may be different from how you practice your faith, but that's ok, this is just my opinion.

The silly thing about humanity is that it never stop having babies, never stops getting infected, never stops being stupid, etc etc etc... If you'll remember the story in Mark 3:1-6, Jesus took a lot of crap for healing someone on the Sabbath. But He turned around and said something that seems like common sense to me. If you find someone in need, are you going to ignore him or her just because it's the Sabbath? As future physicians, we are receiving an incredible amount of knowledge and training we can use to do just that: help out our fellow man. So I personally have no problem with doing some rotations on the Sabbath, or shifts as a resident. You won't find me waking up to study or do some Qbank questions if I have a Saturday off, but I feel like going in to heal like Jesus did is a more than acceptable use of the Sabbath (even if I'm just going to be a scut monkey or something). It's not a rationalization or compromise, I truly believe that's where I should be!

Maybe you feel differently, and that's ok, just thought I would share my view on the matter

so just out of curiosity, when you say you keep the Sabbath, does that mean you actually don't do any Uworld questions on Saturdays when you're less than 3 wks out?

 

[Gfliptastic]

I can tell you that the sacrifices might be occasional. There are some rotations that you will have entire weekends off. However, there are some that make you work on a Sat or Sun (like my IM rotation). It's either/or for us. That's just how they schedule us.

The last post is great. But also understand that it's not "systemically" working every Sat. So what others have posted might hold true, but in the end, what you can do is voice your concerns to the clerkship director, the chief resident, and some of your classmates.

I don't see you being unable to get that every other Saturday off, in exchange for working a classmate's Sunday. However, if the clerkship director and chief know about it, you will almost assuredly be scheduled on Sundays as opposed to Saturdays. I know some of the orthodox Jews at our school do work things like that out.

Getting a WHOLE WEEKEND off is a different story. That's usually blind luck. And ain't no well-recognized religion I know that asks for "religious reasons" to get a whole weekend lol

I hate missing church on Sunday due to a hospital shift, personally. But as is nicely written by thedoctor8706 being able to practice healing I feel is an acceptable excuse. Sundays in the hospital are often far busier than Saturdays anyways.

 

[thedoctor8706]

so just out of curiosity, when you say you keep the Sabbath, does that mean you actually don't do any Uworld questions on Saturdays when you're less than 3 wks out?

Yep, I take a full 24 hrs off from that stuff, even with Step I breathing down my neck. Call me crazy, call me weak, but I feel like no matter what you believe, having a day to rest and recharge can do wonders for the mental psyche. You can keep sawing away at an oak tree, but if you don't stop to sharpen your saw once in awhile, your job will be much less efficient. When it comes to rotations and practicing actual medicine, the unpredictability of our schedule takes away from that, but I feel it is justified by the altruistic, service nature of the job. But when I can help it, I'll spend one day a week away from it all. Completely separate from any religious reasons, I would encourage anyone to try it!

 

[notbobtrustme]

There was an Orthodox Jewish resident at my medical center who had an accommodation provided for him, where he did floor "work" on Saturdays but didn't document anything/write prescriptions/put in orders. It was some sort of arrangement where colleagues or nurses or someone did the writing, while he did the workup and assessment.

wtf???? How does the even circumvent the rule of no working on the Sabbath?

At some point, religion can be incompatible with a career in medicine. There was a Muslim student at my medical school who requested to be exempt from seeing male patients. The medical school refused and told her to pay or play. She came round and saw male patients. I think she initially wanted to go into ob/gyn to deal with the issues, but eventually chose PM&R.

what the ****??????

 

[evilbooyaa]

wtf???? How does the even circumvent the rule of no working on the Sabbath?

Because the rule depends on each person and how far they are willing to take it. For that specific person, "working" meant putting in documentation, and he is OK with being a team player and doing some stuff to help out his fellow residents. It's obviously not a standard definition of "work" but it's what he decided to live by.

what the ****??????

Not seeing male patients, ever? That'd be like a guy not seeing female patients, ever. It hurts education substantially. Wouldn't be ironic if she ended up going into urology.

 

[siliso]

There is probably some degree of intense religious practice that is incompatible with fulfilling the requirements of US medical school and medical practice. If you can never see patients of the opposite gender, or patients outside your religious group, or don't believe in using technological interventions in disease, you have dealbreakers. There are reasonable accommodations, like wearing your religious garb, and then there are others that would be unreasonably burdensome to your school or employer. The whole arrangement with needing a full time scribe of a different religious faith to work on Saturday (or any other day when people inevitaby continue to be ill and get injured) seems like the latter, to me, but apparently someplace was willing. Most religious faiths calling for observance of particular days do admit of the necessity of providing medical care, policing, fighting fires and other major matters that can't be deferred...those that are uncompromising would be less compatible with those sorts of professions.

 

[StIGMA]

There are Sabbath-observant residencies (for example, Albert Einstein offers a Sabbath-observant IM residency:http://www.jacobimed.org/applicants/the-residency/tracks.html)

 

[45408]

I think Mark 3:1-5 applies in force here for any Christian:

Another time Jesus went into the synagogue, and a man with a shriveled hand was there. 2 Some of them were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal him on the Sabbath. 3 Jesus said to the man with the shriveled hand, "Stand up in front of everyone."

4 Then Jesus asked them, "Which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?" But they remained silent.

5 He looked around at them in anger and, deeply distressed at their stubborn hearts, said to the man, "Stretch out your hand." He stretched it out, and his hand was completely restored.

Plus Matthew 25:40

Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.

I see no reason whatsoever why you can't care for your fellow man on Saturday or Sunday. Jesus did it. Now, for those who are Jewish, that poses a different issue.

 

[deleted480308]

I'm currently a second year and I'll be starting rotations at the end of July. I'm a Christian that observes the Sabbath (Saturday), as well as the annual biblical holy days. I figure I'm probably going to run into some issues on rotations, so I was wondering if there are any third and fourth years out there (Christian, Jewish, etc) that also observe the Sabbath that might have some advice.

Thanks in advance for any input!

If you are a christian who observes saturday, then you are likely SDA. There is a large SDA Hospital network in Orlando (Florida Hospital). I'd like to suggest maybe calling and speaking to the chaplain dept there (as they will definitely have some SDA chaplians) and talk with them about your concerns. They can give you anonymous advice, will share your faith concerns, and have an understanding of how other SDA medical employees deal with their faith and profession interacting.

I view it as a "ox in the ditch" type of situation. I can't tell people to not be sick until my sabbath is over, and all the pastors work on the sabbath so that's how I process it internally.