any US citizens?

[egyptianeyes77]

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i've been wondering about this for awhile...i'm a US citizen, born & raised in california & was a california resident for over 20 years, graduated from UOP with a B.S. in Biology, but a foreign dental graduate...

does this mean anything to international dental program admissions' officers? not that i'm seeking special treatment or anything 😉...but what other options are open to ppl like me? i mean is the only option enrolling in an international dent program or is an AEGD or GPR sufficient for practicing in the US?

am interested in hearing from other ppl in a similar situation

dalia

 

[BlueToothHunter]

It means nothing to the state dental boards. You will need to complete the international dentist program (2-3 years) and take all the national board exams and regional clinical boards. As you guessed correctly, there is no special treatment even for the US citizens who completed dental schools overseas. Oh, and yes you will have to complete TOEFL exam if you want to fulfill their criteria of applying to the international programs as well. Have a happy new year!

Only advantage that you will have over non-citizens would be that you will be able to afford the extra dental education through the school loans.

 

[scarletfever]

If you have B.S. from an American school, cant you simply apply to the regular DDS program (4 yr) after taking the DAT. I understand UOP has a 3 yr regular DDS program. I guess that would be the advantage you have over other foreign nationals who can only apply to the International program, which appears to be more competitive to me.

 

[egyptianeyes77]

thanks for all the replies 😉

to scarletfever:

i honestly had thought of that prior to graduating with a BDS, but not sure if that's possible now...i mean it seems strange for me to take the DAT now...wouldn't they be expecting part I instead?

 

[scarletfever]

thanks for all the replies 😉

to scarletfever:

i honestly had thought of that prior to graduating with a BDS, but not sure if that's possible now...i mean it seems strange for me to take the DAT now...wouldn't they be expecting part I instead?

From the schools I spoke with, the eligibility requirement for regular DDS was a B.S. from a US accredited school and a DAT score. There is nothing that should prevent you from taking the DAT & hence applying to these programs. Sure you might have to go to school for an extra year (at UOP) or 2 but you can apply to a lot more schools than everyone else who are really limited to 12-15 schools with few seats & intense competition. I guess u are fortunate u can have a wider array of schools and programs to apply to.

But dont just take my word for it. Talk to some of the schools as well.

 

[NufinButTheToof]

where did you go to dental school outside the US?

 

[cheer_up]

i've been wondering about this for awhile...i'm a US citizen, born & raised in california & was a california resident for over 20 years, graduated from UOP with a B.S. in Biology, but a foreign dental graduate...

does this mean anything to international dental program admissions' officers? not that i'm seeking special treatment or anything 😉...but what other options are open to ppl like me? i mean is the only option enrolling in an international dent program or is an AEGD or GPR sufficient for practicing in the US?

am interested in hearing from other ppl in a similar situation

dalia

Hi

I'm in the same situation as you are...except I'm a Canadian citizen. I practically grew up in Canada. I've been in Canada for over 20 years as well. I practically got almost all of my education in Toronto, up to BSc. Then I got my dental degree from England. Unfortunately, there is NO easy way out for people like us (at least not that I know of). We have to go through the same stinking 2-3 year Advanced Standing Program like any other foreign trained dentist, although I so wished there were 😀 . Not only that, but you also have to write the TOEFL for most of the schools. Only a few exempt you from doing that like Columbia, for example. This, I think, is absolutely ridiculous....C'mon, give me break!! But, hey, at least you don't have to study for it. 😀 However, for the Canadian dental schools, I am exempt from taking any English Proficiency Test....at least one good thing about them 😀 . Anyway. I suggest if you wish to practise dentistry in the US, you should starting preparing to write the boards and then apply. The sooner you get in, the better as things are just getting so competitive. I got the shock of my life when I came back to Toronto and realized how competitive it just is to get into an Advanced Standing Program in North America. But you CAN do it. It just takes a lot of motivation, and hard work and time, of course. Hope that helps. Good luck.

 

[scarletfever]

The school I spoke with was UIC & they appear to be making a distinction between US school credits vs. credits from another foreign school (Canada included). But I still think you should check first with the individual schools you are interested in. Below is from the UIC DDS program website:

Course Requirements
Applicants must complete a minimum of 90 semester hours or 135 quarter hours (approximately 3 years) of undergraduate coursework. A Baccalaureate Degree is not required, but it is strongly preferred, and the majority of those accepted into the DDS program have a degree. All course credits must be from an accredited United States college or university. There are no limitations on junior college work.

http://dentistry.uic.edu/admissions/dds/reqs.htm

 

[muberrymolar]

no US institution will require a US citizen to sit for toefl exams,its against the law!

 

[fido!]

hey muberrymolar,
who told u this?please collect the correct info and then post!i'm a US citizen and i took the toefl.
go and check the college web-sites and see the section under FAQ!
it states that if u are a foreign grad u need to take up toefl.it is MANDATORY!NO EXCEPTIONS TO THIS!

no US institution will require a US citizen to sit for toefl exams,its against the law!

 

[cheer_up]

no US institution will require a US citizen to sit for toefl exams,its against the law!

Hi

I agree with Prady. As far as I can remember, Loma Linda is one of the schools that requires its applicants to take the TOEFL regardless of whether you're a US citizen or not. Even if you were born, raised and educated in the US, with the exception of dental education, you'll be still required to take the TOEFL....no exceptions, whatsoever.

 

[fido!]

thanks cheer_up!
not only loma linda,toefl holds good for all foreign grads!thus ,all schools ask for ur toefl scores!

Hi

I agree with Prady. As far as I can remember, Loma Linda is one of the schools that requires its applicants to take the TOEFL regardless of whether you're a US citizen or not. Even if you were born, raised and educated in the US, with the exception of dental education, you'll be still required to take the TOEFL....no exceptions, whatsoever.

 

[muberrymolar]

Hi

I agree with Prady. As far as I can remember, Loma Linda is one of the schools that requires its applicants to take the TOEFL regardless of whether you're a US citizen or not. Even if you were born, raised and educated in the US, with the exception of dental education, you'll be still required to take the TOEFL....no exceptions, whatsoever.

This is absolutely ridiculous,did you guys specifically ask the schools if a US citizen is required to take the toefl exams?as a US citizen you dont have any language obligation,even if speak only spanish its your full right to be educated! pls ask the schools specifically!

 

[fido!]

R U A US CITIZEN?AND HAVE U TAKEN UP UR TOEFL?

This is absolutely ridiculous,did you guys specifically ask the schools if a US citizen is required to take the toefl exams?as a US citizen you dont have any language obligation,even if speak only spanish its your full right to be educated! pls ask the schools specifically!

 

[fido!]

PLEASE READ MY PREVIOUS POST!IT WILL BE HELPFUL!!!!!

This is absolutely ridiculous,did you guys specifically ask the schools if a US citizen is required to take the toefl exams?as a US citizen you dont have any language obligation,even if speak only spanish its your full right to be educated! pls ask the schools specifically!

 

[cheer_up]

thanks cheer_up!
not only loma linda,toefl holds good for all foreign grads!thus ,all schools ask for ur toefl scores!

Well, not ALL schools require TOEFL, but you have to call up each one and ask if the TOEFL requirement can be waived for you. I did that for a few schools because initially I didn't want to take it. NYU told me that I had to write them a letter stating that I've done 95% all of my schooling in English (i.e. in Canada and England). UPenn, UCLA, Michigan and I think a few other as well told me that I would be exempt from writing the TOEFL. But most others told me that I had to take it. So in the end, I just took the damn thing anyway, as I think it would be just a lot less of a hassle for me than writing a letter to each of them. So, to make it short, it really depends on one's situation.

 

[muberrymolar]

Thanks for the clarification, but like i said earlier no US institution will require a US citizen to take the toefl.your situation was different because you are a Canadian.
Most info on the school websites are generic and really for international students and GC holders.

 

[cheer_up]

Thanks for the clarification, but like i said earlier no US institution will require a US citizen to take the toefl.your situation was different because you are a Canadian.
Most info on the school websites are generic and really for international students and GC holders.

Hi

I spoke with a lady from the Admissions Office at Linda Loma and told her my situation. She said that I needed to take the TOEFL. Then she said that even if I were born, raised and educated in the US, like I mentioned above already, I would be still required to take the TOEFL. I rested my case when I heard this. Her logic was "to be fair to everyone". You might want to call them up to confirm it yourself.
I know it's frustrating and sounds ridiculous, but you've got to play by their rules if you want to go to their school, unfortunately.

 

[Meggs]

no US institution will require a US citizen to sit for toefl exams,its against the law!

This is a good one!.

 

[BlueToothHunter]

This is absolutely ridiculous,did you guys specifically ask the schools if a US citizen is required to take the toefl exams?as a US citizen you dont have any language obligation,even if speak only spanish its your full right to be educated! pls ask the schools specifically!

I've met many US citizens who spoke English like newly-arrived. I've also met many foreigners who spoke better English than some of the US native speakers. For those who had to complete their dental education overseas (for whatever compelling reasons), it's not always that they were trained in English language.

The universities would want to set a level of satisfactory English language competency before admitting a foreign-trained dentist into their program. I don't think there is a law against that. We're talking about further (graduate/doctoral level) education at your own expense, not elementary school or learning how to do maths or speak English (ie. an individual's right to be educated?).

Take the test! Like the other poster said. If you can't beat them, join them!

 

[fido!]

tell me about it!

This is a good one!.

 

[fido!]

whatever u say pal...........!

Thanks for the clarification, but like i said earlier no US institution will require a US citizen to take the toefl.your situation was different because you are a Canadian.
Most info on the school websites are generic and really for international students and GC holders.

 

[starbucksfan]

whatever u say pal...........!

I agree with prady.US citizen,green card holders,everyone has to take TOEFL.there is no exception.this is to be non bias and being a us citizen or a green card holder can just help u in getting the loans not the seats in a dental school any more or getting away from TOEFL.(thats what I think!)

 

[fido!]

well,i guess u r right to an extent....!gc holders/pr can apply to schools which accept only gcholders/pr in addition to regular schools!

I agree with prady.US citizen,green card holders,everyone has to take TOEFL.there is no exception.this is to be non bias and being a us citizen or a green card holder can just help u in getting the loans not the seats in a dental school any more or getting away from TOEFL.(thats what I think!)

 

[lisax]

Hi there,
I'm in the same boat....A US citizen but unfortunately gotta do the same advanced program. 🙁 .well I guess who said life is fair anyways...Wish at times that I didnt do my dental degree abroad...would have made life so much easier.Dont get me wrong..I loved the experience going to a dental school in India..was worthwhile, but just thinking about having to do it again doesnt seems so tempting .Well guess everything happens for a reason..Feel like we're starting everything from A-Z....Well good luck to all.... 👍

 

[FIXENSMILES01]

Look at my pic.

I am as white as you are going to get here in the US. I was born here and attended kindergarten straight through to Undergraduate college, all in the US. I never left until I went to graduate school abroad. I have nothing to prove to anyone except myself. My point is; take the exam. If anyone here is an American like myself, then you assume the responsibilities that goes with studying abroad. The only preferential treatment that one should get is from the performance one does to help others and themselves strictly for the good of all. Regardless of what you get on the TOFL , you should, like me, be content to know where you are from and who you are. I will reiterate; take the exam and do what is fare. We are all in this together and should by academic standards meet all the prerequisites of attending Dental School here in America as one body with no divisions. Other then that, you should have stayed here and tried to get in to Dental School (which for some reason I am sure you couldn't). So, be grateful that you are back here and allowed to become a doctor and enjoy all that is initialed in that title and profession.- Bill

 

[lisax]

Look at my pic.

I am as white as you are going to get here in the US. I was born here and attended kindergarten straight through to Undergraduate college, all in the US. I never left until I went to graduate school abroad. I have nothing to prove to anyone except myself. My point is; take the exam. If anyone here is an American like myself, then you assume the responsibilities that goes with studying abroad. The only preferential treatment that one should get is from the performance one does to help others and themselves strictly for the good of all. Regardless of what you get on the TOFL , you should, like me, be content to know where you are from and who you are. I will reiterate; take the exam and do what is fare. We are all in this together and should by academic standards meet all the prerequisites of attending Dental School here in America as one body with no divisions. Other then that, you should have stayed here and tried to get in to Dental School (which for some reason I am sure you couldn't). So, be grateful that you are back here and allowed to become a doctor and enjoy all that is initialed in that title and profession.- Bill

Hey ,thanks for the encouragement...I was born in New York and just for my dental degree my dad decided to send me to India..For some reasons or the other....Well we all have to go through it , so just looking at the brighter side...Good luck to all 👍

 

[lisax]

Basically is that I just dread having to do all this over again..thats all..no hard feelings in having to do it the right orderly way and as a student maintaing the standards and all the necessary prerequisites..And believe me in all sense am I grateful...

 

[lisax]

And I am not talking about the toefl exams..Im talking about the NBDE part 1 exams..To me TOEFL is not the major mountain...its the whole idea of having to go through a two or three year program...

 

[lisax]

Basically is that I just dread having to do all this over again..thats all..no hard feelings in having to do it the right orderly way and as a student maintaing the standards and all the necessary prerequisites..And believe me in all sense am I grateful...

And I am not talking about the toefl exams..Im talking about the NBDE part 1 exams..To me TOEFL is not the major mountain...its the whole idea of having to go through a two or three year program... 🙁 But like I said I believe that everything happens for a reason 😀

 

[egyptianeyes77]

thanks for all the replies on the post 😉...though some of u made it sound like i was after some kind of preferential treatment! totally on the contrary!...i was just trying to see if my stats would somehow get me waived from taking the TOEFL…

I’ll have to admit though that some schools did give me the heads up on that…strangely enuf though, all those schools are on the east coast…my own alma mater, UOP, as well as, the other California dental schools didn’t! 🙁…

now correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the sole purpose of the TOEFL to test ur proficiency of the English language?? Now assuming it is, there should be some kind of English language interview which would determine if u’ve got a handle on the language or not…but I guess that would be in my own dream world 😉…it’s a little frustrating!....but I guess I should just stop bitching & complaining about this…it’s totally trivial in comparison to the rest of the requirements…

anyways, thanks again for all the feedback & support…good luck to u all out there in the vicious world of advanced standing 😉

 

[BlueToothHunter]

After all, this post is about venting frustration with the admission beaurocracy. We all have one of those days.

LisaX - NBDE Parts 1 and 2 are taken by everyone in the US dental schools. If you want to join the club, then take them with smile! You'll have no problem with them. By the way, why did you goto India for dental school? Your dad decided that you will goto India (your previous post indicated this)? Anyway, good luck.

EgyptianEyes - Each exam that you complete (TOEFL, NBDEs etc.) will be gratifying! Every exam that you take and cross off the list, man, you will feel like you're one step closer! I know, I've been there before! Also, does your signature say in french, there is no point in being a genious if you can't be a fool? My french is rusty... il'y a dix ans que j'ai parle francais!! C'est tres difficile en etas-uni!!!

Fixinsmiles - I've read your posts before and I was glad that you stopped Writing Like This! haha. But you wrote a very inspiring post and I really enjoyed that. How is your study coming along for part 1? I know a friend (from Peru) who had partial pass in Part 1 and had to retake Biochemistry. I helped him (just lent him my book) and he passed second try. We celebrated afterwards by going out for a nice cold beer!

 

[cheer_up]

thanks for all the replies on the post 😉...though some of u made it sound like i was after some kind of preferential treatment! totally on the contrary!...i was just trying to see if my stats would somehow get me waived from taking the TOEFL…

I’ll have to admit though that some schools did give me the heads up on that…strangely enuf though, all those schools are on the east coast…my own alma mater, UOP, as well as, the other California dental schools didn’t! 🙁…

now correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the sole purpose of the TOEFL to test ur proficiency of the English language?? Now assuming it is, there should be some kind of English language interview which would determine if u’ve got a handle on the language or not…but I guess that would be in my own dream world 😉…it’s a little frustrating!....but I guess I should just stop bitching & complaining about this…it’s totally trivial in comparison to the rest of the requirements…

anyways, thanks again for all the feedback & support…good luck to u all out there in the vicious world of advanced standing 😉

Hi Egyptianeye

Don't worry, I felt the same way about the TOEFL when I first heard that I had to take it. That's why I called up a lot of the schools and asked them about it. But you know what....it makes your life a lot easier if you just take the damn thing. I think the test is a formality more than anything. It's not hard at all. It's just basic English that they're testing you. It's nothing like the English and the Humanities courses that I used to take when I was a science undergrad. Initially, I didn't want to take it because I thought I had to spend time preparing for it because I didn't know its level of difficulty and didn't know what to expect. At that time, I didn't want to spend time on it because I was preparing for Part I. Then my best friend took it and she did quite well on it with little or no preparation. She said that I didn't have to prepare for it. That was when I decided take it. I didn't bother to study for it at all. All I did was going through the Tutorial section of the sample test which the Prometric gives to familiarize myself with the format and the types of questions asked the night before. I did quite well. I didn't score the perfect 300 or anything. I got 280 which I think is pretty good. I don't think dental schools make such a big deal out of it. As long as your score is above 250, you're good to go with all the schools. After taking it, I did feel better like BlueToothHunter said..you know, ticking off the exam/test I've done so far. I really wish the Board Exams are just as easy....yeah right...keep on dreaming 😀 . The point is just take it. It's so NOT hard at all for people like us who have been educated in North American English. It's just a matter of paying a fee and get your butt to the centre on the testing date. I think there's a Speaking section now, but I'm sure you'll have no problem with it whatsoever. Like Lisax said, it's really the least of your problems in trying to get into a dental school. Good luck

 

[cheer_up]

And I am not talking about the toefl exams..Im talking about the NBDE part 1 exams..To me TOEFL is not the major mountain...its the whole idea of having to go through a two or three year program...

Hi Lisax

I do feel your pain. You know, when I was in dental school, I knew that I had to do the Advanced Standing Program when I came back, but at that time, I didn't mind much. I just thought two years is not a long time as time seems to fly by quite quickly when you're so busy with school work anyway. However, I got really frustrated when I found out just how competive it is to get into a dental school. That's the thing that frustrates me personally more than the duration of the program. But there is nothing we can do except to buckle down, pull up our socks and work our butts off and hopefully, it will be good enough to get us into a dental school. Like Fixensmiles said, when you decided to go abroad to do dentistry, you have to take on all the obligations that come along with getting your qualifications when you come back. That's just reality. People like us have to 'beat around the bush' a little bit before finally getting to where to want to be compared to the regular dental students here, but that's okay, right?? 😀

 

[lisax]

Thanks alot guys for all the support

 

[smile5]

no US institution will require a US citizen to sit for toefl exams,its against the law!

even I am a u.s citizen and I took toefl last year.If you are applying to international dentist program,u have to take toefl.it's the main requirement for that program,it doesn't matter whether u are a u.s citizen or not.