Anybody else happy with what they'll make?

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Lots of vets do residency these days (For about $21,000-$28,000 a year...).

I hope your kidding about being on call...

Your'e right about the government thing. My point was purely to show that plenty of people pay back their loans on far less, and live good lives! Chin up! You'll still be far better off than the majority of people!

P.S. We have socialised healthcare here in Aus. And it rocks. I can't imagine what it would be like to implement it in a country, but srsly, im sure if you come back to america in 100yrs, you'll think the healthcare system is far better off for EVERYBODY!

But the option is there NOT to do a residency and start making money at the age of 25 or so(If you start Vet school at 21) opposed to 28 or 29(If you got into FP).

I'm also under the understanding the vast majority of vets work in a solo or small group practice and have control over their hours?
 
OP, I am guessing that you are someone who has never personally had to worry about your finances up to and through this point in your life? If you ever have, you might think differently.

I want to be a doctor because I want to be a doctor. Don't question mine or anyone else's motives because they aren't pleased with the compensation that comes with it. I want to enter into a profession...not do charity work for the rest of my life.

I had to take massive loans and work two jobs simultaneously throughout college just to get a Bachelor's degree. Paying for college with my family's financial situation was incredibly difficult, and it put a HUGE burden on both me and my parents. I don't want to have to face that again. I don't want my kids to be unable to go to college because of money. I don't want my wife to have to make huge budget cuts just to make ends meet. I don't want to have to tell my child, "Son, college might just not be possible right now for you."

Hell no. I'm not doing that again. I chose medicine because I like it, but I had better be financial secure the rest of my life for going through the sacrifices it required to get to that point.

Ever have Hamburger Helper without the hamburger for dinner because your parents couldn't afford it? I have. Ever buy a computer for $10 because you can't afford the school required laptops? I'm on a $10 computer right now. Ever buy your clothes at a thrift store? I'm not talking about Halloween costumes...I'm talking about the clothes you wear to school. Because I have. Ever skip meals not because you're too busy studying but because you have $3 in your bank account after your bills and you don't get paid for another 4 days? Because I have.

I'm not working for $50k a year. I want better for my future family and better for what I've put in so far and will put it in the future to become a doctor.

And every time some doctor or doctor-wannabe talks about how money doesn't matter, that just opens the door for someone to take it away. Maybe nobody posts about how they want to work for less because that kind of talk makes it a reality. Trust me, there is no shortage of people in the world who want to take money from you.

I lost my mother to mental illness several years ago. I never had a father. I take out loans to pay for school, get scholarships, and work as an intern at software company for my spending money. I pay my own rent, insurance, car payments, and cell phone bill. Don't even begin to presume you know my financial situation.

Before that, I wasn't rich. But I've always been happy. I have good friends and a good life.
 
OP, I admire the way you feel about things, but I think you might be overconfident that your feelings will remain permanent. By discounting the advice of med students/residents/practicing physicians, you may be being shortsighted. From what I've seen, sentiments like yours rarely stay the same. They usually change with time.

I mean, no one gets married thinking they'll be in that "other" 50% (I think).
 
If there is anything worse than those who insist that doctors make too much money and are bankrupting our health care system -- a patently absurd claim made by liars with an agenda and those naive dupes foolish enough to believe them -- it's doctors and doctors-to-be who whine that their paltry six-figure salary is not just compensation for their Godlike efforts.

Barf.

:laugh:
 
OP, I admire the way you feel about things, but I think you might be overconfident that your feelings will remain permanent. By discounting the advice of med students/residents/practicing physicians, you may be being shortsighted. From what I've seen, sentiments like yours rarely stay the same. They usually change with time.

I mean, no one gets married thinking they'll be in that "other" 50% (I think).

And that could be true. My views could change. And that's fine. But if you already know you're not gonna get paid enough to make you happy, what're you waiting for lol? Thats what I don't understand. Premeds and M1s who already know they're going to be miserable.
 
Theres control and theres control.

For instance, I actually live at a vet clinic as a student, acting as a nurse. Atm, its 4:10am where I am in Australia - I haven't slept tonight, as I've been trying to make sure a hypoglycaemic cat stays alive. Yes, the vet is at home - but yes, he did come in at 1am to help me out when the cat started seizuring. And he will come in again if I need him. In a different clinic, where there are no live in students, the vet would be me.
Most vets operate under similar circumstances - office hours might be 7am-7pm, but when it comes to afterhours, your it. In a typical small animal practice, a vet might spend between 1 in 2 to one in 4 nights on call, and split the weekend work. And this is in a metropolitan area - it all depends on your avaliable emergency clinics, and how much trust you have in those clinics. In a regional or rural setting, your hours are much worse, and calves never get stuck in the daytime!
And when you compare those hours to our reimbursement, you see why we feel its a bit rich to hear you whining about your salaries going down a bit?
 
And that could be true. My views could change. And that's fine. But if you already know you're not gonna get paid enough to make you happy, what're you waiting for lol? Thats what I don't understand. Premeds and M1s who already know they're going to be miserable.

This is a good question. I'm just speculating here, and this explanation certainly won't apply to everyone, but I think it's a matter of having gone down this road for so long and being so invested in it that they don't know or have not considered any alternatives. It's like staying in an unsatisfying relationship. One might be miserable, but in their mind it's more comforting to stay in familiar misery than to venture out into the unknown.
 
I'm not overly concerned about the changes in compensation.

I grew up in a family making <100k combined for my entire life, so I guess I have never seen what its like to live in a household bringing in "physician salaries".

So I figure even if I'm making something like 120K and my wife is making 30-60k, even after accounting for inflation and student loans, I should surely be able to provide a similar standard of living to that my parents gave to me, which I felt was more than adequate.

I could see this being more stressful on someone who grew up with physician/lawyer/MBA parents, because there is a very realistic chance they will be less wealthy than their parents which might bother some people.
 
This is a good question. I'm just speculating here, and this explanation certainly won't apply to everyone, but I think it's a matter of having gone down this road for so long and being so invested in it that they don't know or have not considered any alternatives. It's like staying in an unsatisfying relationship. One might be miserable, but in their mind it's more comforting to stay in familiar misery than to venture out into the unknown.

Makes sense. Good point.
 
I've gotten so fed up with people b'ing and moaning on SDN about how they're going to be poor. "Obama is ruining us all." "It's not worth it." "The smart people never go to med school." It's really old. As if we haven't already read it in 40 other threads by 100 other people. It's just unnecessary.

But I know I'm not the only one who doesn't care. And to people in med school/residency, don't bother telling me how ignorant I am and how my mood will change once I get to M3 or start working resident hours. I've heard that before too, by 100 other people in 40 other threads.

Does an artist live his life in a small studio apartment, never making it big, but creating art, because he wants to be miserable? Did he do it for the money? Or did he want to make art. He's not going to be able to give his family everything. Maybe he won't even have enough money to support a family on his own. But someone doesn't go into art to do all that. But let's also not pretend that a doctor is going to be a starving artist, ok? Let's pretend we're all smarter than that.

Isn't it possible some of us want to go to med school. We want to be residents. We just want to be doctors. The money isn't the motivation here people. I understand for some of you it is, and I'm not judging you. I think money is a perfectly acceptable reason to go into a profession. But maybe if you do want to make a lot of money and you feel like you wont.... you just should leave SDN and stop pursuing medicine now. Cause you're obviously hurt about much of your life you're giving up and how much money you'll make.

Who else is fine with the money and really wishes people would just stop beating the dead horse?

OP, it isn't that many people are unhappy with what physicians are currently making. It's the trend that's alarming. Physicians with your attitude are responsible for sitting by while small insult after small insult affect our compensation, ignoring the big picture. The big picture is that these cuts will add up until, in spite of how unrealistic you may think this oucome is, physicians may make as much as teachers, police officers, and all other government employees. If you truly think THIS is okay, you must be in the minority with no medical school debt nor sense of value for your own time commitment and hard work.
 
I think if anyone honestly thinks 100k/yr pre-:
-loan pmts
-retirement savings
-bills
-taxes
-constant threat of litigation
-minimum 7 years post undergrad (4 of which you make NOTHING)

is 'well off' are short sighted or still have blank checks from mommy and daddy..
 
This is a good question. I'm just speculating here, and this explanation certainly won't apply to everyone, but I think it's a matter of having gone down this road for so long and being so invested in it that they don't know or have not considered any alternatives. It's like staying in an unsatisfying relationship. One might be miserable, but in their mind it's more comforting to stay in familiar misery than to venture out into the unknown.

That make's a lot of sense to me and I agree why you think they'd stay in medicine. But that's still sad the way someone staying in a bad relationship is sad :/.
 
I have to say, I'm surprised this didn't turn into more of a 'omg you stupid idealist' dogpile.

I agree with most of your points OP. While I can't say I'm 100% certain how I will feel about my choice to go into medicine when I'm finally an attending, I'd like to think that going into it knowing my primary motivation is not a very high salary is a step in the right direction. At the end of the day, if I am able to make enough money (factoring in loan payments) to maintain the middle class lifestyle my RN mother was able to provide for me, I will be satisfied.

That being said, I do have some concerns about some of the things that have been cropping up recently, i.e. nurse midwives being paid the same as OBGYNs. While I definitely don't subscribe to the 'doctors are godlike creatures who should make the most money of anyone ever!!!' school of thought, I do think that length of training - and therefore expertise - should play a role in determining salary. I'd like to see issues such as tort reform and the obscene profits of insurance companies come under fire rather than doctors' salaries.

But yes, I feel reasonably confident saying I'll be happy with what I make as a physician.
 
OP, it isn't that many people are unhappy with what physicians are currently making. It's the trend that's alarming. Physicians with your attitude are responsible for sitting by while small insult after small insult affect our compensation, ignoring the big picture. The big picture is that these cuts will add up until, in spite of how unrealistic you may think this oucome is, physicians may make as much as teachers, police officers, and all other government employees. If you truly think THIS is okay, you must be in the minority with no medical school debt nor sense of value for your own time commitment and hard work.

One of my plans is military medicine for a few years. So zero med school debt isnt out of the question for me. But if that's so great. Why is everyone I know telling me I'll be making half of civilian doctors? Funny right... Hypothetically I'll make 100k in the military with no debt, no malpractice, and less taxes (not all military pay is taxable). But still everyones saying I'll be the poor one.

Yet they're going to be poorer.... I don't understand.

Edit: Before anyone goes IF YOU GO INTO THE MILITARY FOR THE MONEY YOULL BE MISERABLE. Save it. I'm not considering it for the money. Just like I'm not going into medicine for the money.
 
Does an artist live his life in a small studio apartment, never making it big, but creating art, because he wants to be miserable? Did he do it for the money? Or did he want to make art. He's not going to be able to give his family everything. Maybe he won't even have enough money to support a family on his own. But someone doesn't go into art to do all that. But let's also not pretend that a doctor is going to be a starving artist, ok? Let's pretend we're all smarter than that.

Isn't it possible some of us want to go to med school. We want to be residents. We just want to be doctors.

See, I think what a lot of medical students, residents, and physicians that post here are trying to get across is that you're not going to like being a medical student, resident, or even a doctor. Not in the sense that the starving artist likes his job, anyway. Medical school is 2 years of mind numbing fact memorization (ever tried to memorize the dictionary) followed by 2 years of sleeplessness, kiss-assery, and scut. Residency is 3-9 years of abuse and even less sleep. As a physician things will get better, but your work hours will still involve the threats of litigation and infection, an assembly line 15 minute/patient pace, a complete lack of origional creative thought, and of course the kind of truely visceral reaction you get from both seeing and smelling vomit and pus under flourescent lights day after day.

That's the difference between the medical student and the starving artist, that's the reason that you need to spend to much money to attract talented people to this field: because no one actually enjoys medicine. It's not that it's a bad job as jobs go. Once you get past the training the hours can be alright, the job security is great, and pay is good. However, like working on an assembly line, it is something that almost everyone does 100% to improve the quality of their time when they're NOT at work. If they take that away, and this job gets less lucrative, then there's really no reason for anyone with talent to go into this career.

Just my opinion, could be wrong.
 
One of my plans is military medicine for a few years. So zero med school debt isnt out of the question for me. But if that's so great. Why is everyone I know telling me I'll be making half of civilian doctors? Funny right... Hypothetically I'll make 100k in the military with no debt, no malpractice, and less taxes (not all military pay is taxable). But still everyones saying I'll be the poor one.

Yet they're going to be poorer.... I don't understand.

Private practice subspecialty physicians gross much more than you may think they do. The average surgeon probably grosses close to 450k to end up with 200k after expenses. The military takes less from you but reimburses you (gross pay) way, way less than you'd gross in private practice.

Working for the government almost never, ever pays better than the private equivalent. All you need to note is the salary of senators and congressmen.
 
See, I think what a lot of medical students, residents, and physicians that post here are trying to get across is that you're not going to like being a medical student, resident, or even a doctor. Not in the sense that the starving artist likes his job, anyway. Medical school is 2 years of mind numbing fact memorization (ever tried to memorize the dictionary) followed by 2 years of sleeplessness, kiss-assery, and scut. Residency is 3-9 years of abuse and even less sleep. As a physician things will get better, but your work hours will still involve the threats of litigation and infection, an assembly line 15 minute/patient pace, a complete lack of origional creative thought, and of course the kind of truely visceral reaction you get from both seeing and smelling vomit and pus under flourescent lights day after day.

That's the difference between the medical student and the starving artist, that's the reason that you need to spend to much money to attract talented people to this field: because no one actually enjoys medicine. It's not that it's a bad job, as job's go it's not particularly awful and at the moment it still pays pretty well. However, like working on an assembly line, it is something that everyone does 100% to improve the quality of their time when they're NOT at work. If they take that away, and this job gets less lucrative, then there's really no reason for anyone with talent to go into this career.

That's completely untrue. You can think that. But it's not true and making outrageous generalizations like that tend to invalidate your entire argument.

Edit: I bolded the rest of your paragraph because all of it is a gross generalization. You're speaking for too many people at once.
 
Private practice subspecialty physicians gross much more than you may think they do. The average surgeon probably grosses close to 450k to end up with 200k after expenses. The military takes less from you but reimburses you (gross pay) way, way less than you'd gross in private practice.

Working for the government almost never, ever pays better than the private equivalent. All you need to note is the salary of senators and congressmen.

I understand, but this argument can't be made when people are trying to make the same argument that all doctors are dirt poor.
 
JoshUNCW, I briefly skimmed through your post, but the most realistic feedback you should pay attention to is the one from the medical students that posted here so far, they actually KNOW what medical school is like, and have experience that we just don't have.
 
JoshUNCW, I briefly skimmed through your post, but the most realistic feedback you should pay attention to is the one from the medical students that posted here so far, they actually KNOW what medical school is like, and have experience that we just don't have.

I have best friends from high school and college who are currently in med school. We talk all the time. One of them goes to UNC, one of the top med schools in the country. She tells me how hard it is. And how much fun she's having. And she tells me this while she's visiting me at the beach, sitting in the sand, drinking beer. She can't take every weekend off, too much work. But she can take SOME off. It's a hard job and I never ever denied that nor disputed the hard work that medical school required.
 
That's completely untrue. You can think that. But it's not true and making outrageous generalizations like that tend to invalidate your entire argument.

Edit: I bolded the rest of your paragraph because all of it is a gross generalization. You're speaking for too many people at once.

Alright then, what is it that you think you're going to like about this job? What is so worthwhile about this profession that you'd do it for so little pay?
 
Who else is fine with the money and really wishes people would just stop beating the dead horse?

When I received my employment contract offer back in November (the one I ended up taking, anyway) and I looked at the "compensation" section, yes, I was quite happy. I still am. If/when I make partner my compensation will further increase anywhere from 80-100%. More happiness.

The topic of money has been so maligned in medical school admissions. The underlying issue is that money is not a very good reason to pursue medicine. The years are many, the hours are long, the gratification is delayed, the training is hierarchical, and there's an awful lot of blood, urine, feces, sputum, vomit, fluids NOS, sickness, death, misery, and whimpering. Most people require more than a vision of a big house and a convertible Porsche to get through that intact.

In general I think adcoms are in tune to this, and the reason that money is a forbidden topic during the admissions process boils down to finding and excluding two sorts of people: 1) the folks who really are just in it for the money, and therefore have a perceived risk of dropping out, burning out, or being chronically miserable, and 2) the folks who are too stupid to not talk about money during the admissions process.

The fact that nobody is "allowed" to talk about money during the premed phase leads some to erroneously conclude that physicians should not be concerned with compensation. Nothing could be further from the truth. Many physicians make deliberate choices that hurt their bottom lines (such as choosing a lower paying specialty, or staying in academics), but everyone is watching their bottom lines to make sure they maintain their respective lifestyles and achieve their financial goals.

That said, there are approximately 750,000 practicing physicians in the country, and within that cohort you will find everything from saints to sinners. In the end you're better off just following your own path.
 
Alright then, what is it that you think you're going to like about this job? What is so worthwhile about this profession that you'd do it for so little pay?

It kind of makes me sad that you can't answer that. You probably should have gone into business or engineering and just made money out of college. Would have been easier on you. Like I still, there's still time to drop out of med school.

What would I get out of medicine? Trying to help people. When I die I want to know I did something with my life that meant something. And I feel like being a doctor will help me reach that goal. And I know every field of medicine has lots and lots of patients who will treat them like **** and not appreciate what the doctor is trying to do. But there will be a few that appreciate a good doctor.
 
Also OP, I think another explanation for premeds/M1s' attitudes is the fact that their inexperience at actually being a doctor leads them to narrowly define the field by money.

I've found myself browsing through salary figures time and again in an effort to "decide" on my potential specialty, and I realized that I was doing so because numbers are concrete. I know and understand the concept of money. I can crunch numbers and see which specialties come out ahead. I bet many others have had similar perspectives or done similar things. No wonder everyone whines about decreasing reimbursement! One of the only things they've defined their future profession on is being eroded!

But this view is 1-dimensional, and so it's a flawed way to see things. I've realized this just recently. I don't know that many premeds have. They haven't taken into account a full consideration of the 'ephemeral' aspects/rewards of being a doctor. Although they've heard or read about it, they don't really know what it means to save a life, tell a family good news, research information that's never been known before in all of history, or teach and nurture residents and see them grow.

So this bodes well for those who are in despair about decreasing reimbursement, because what it means is that as they experience more of the other rewards of being a doctor, they might then feel like the lack of money is no big deal after all. This of course won't apply to everyone. But I think (hope) it will apply to some. Certainly to me.
 
If you are in medicine for the money, you will be highly disappointed. That point has been reiterated enough, but it does hold true

Though ideally we should be compensated fairly for the large amount of dedication, sacrifice, and hard work we put into our careers, things are rarely truly fair in life. I would rather not have my wages controlled by the government but that is just one of the many costs of pursuing our goal that we will have to deal with.
 
It kind of makes me sad that you can't answer that. You probably should have gone into business or engineering and just made money out of college. Would have been easier on you. Like I still, there's still time to drop out of med school.

What would I get out of medicine? Trying to help people. When I die I want to know I did something with my life that meant something. And I feel like being a doctor will help me reach that goal. And I know every field of medicine has lots and lots of patients who will treat them like **** and not appreciate what the doctor is trying to do. But there will be a few that appreciate a good doctor.

See, I respect that, and I understand not wanting you working life to have been devoted to convincing people that Pepsi is better than Coke (I know I wouldn't). However having been an engineer I don't think that 'helping people' is in any way uniqure to the medical profession. Honestly some of the biofuel and nanotech stuff that my friends are working are will likel do more good than I ever will. For that matter I think your average social worker, nurse, or translator has as much or more potential to impact a patients life as their average doctor.

But, more to the point, is the only thing you like about the career of medicine the idea of helping people? Is that really enough to sustain you through an entire career?
 
See, I respect that, and I understand not wanting you working life to have been devoted to convincing people that Pepsi is better than Coke (I know I wouldn't). However having been an engineer I don't think that 'helping people' is in any way uniqure to the medical profession. Honestly some of the biofuel and nanotech stuff that my friends are working are will likel do more good than I ever will. For that matter I think your average social worker, nurse, or translator has as much or more potential to impact a patients life as their average doctor.

But, more to the point, is the only thing you like about the career of medicine the idea of helping people? Is that really enough to sustain you through an entire career?

If I wasn't a doctor I'd just go into programming. Either way I'm problem solving which is something I love. And maybe if I hate it after so many years I can be a consultant at a medical computer company, idk. I can have back up plans. But the point being, I think I'd feel better about myself being a doctor than a senior programmer at some firm. Making the same wage.
 
doctors arent trying to get more money, they are trying to keep their payments from going lower as they have been more many years.

You misunderstand me. I agree with you about doctors not being money-grubbers. I also agree with the OP's disdain for doctors whining about how underpaid they are.
 

That was in response to someone insinuating I did nothing but try to get ahead in school. I try not to bring up my personal life unless someone calls it into question. Just so they can get a perspective on the kind of person these comments are coming from. No other reason.
 
If I wasn't a doctor I'd just go into programming. Either way I'm problem solving which is something I love. And maybe if I hate it after so many years I can be a consultant at a medical computer company, idk. I can have back up plans. But the point being, I think I'd feel better about myself being a doctor than a senior programmer at some firm. Making the same wage.

Well, best of luck. Just don't raise your expecations for medicine too high. I still maintain that the people who are happiest in this job (or any job) are the people that expect the least from it.
 
What would I get out of medicine? Trying to help people. When I die I want to know I did something with my life that meant something. And I feel like being a doctor will help me reach that goal. And I know every field of medicine has lots and lots of patients who will treat them like **** and not appreciate what the doctor is trying to do. But there will be a few that appreciate a good doctor.

There are 100's of professions that will let you help people and let you feel like your life is worth living. Like a High School teacher. Think of the impact you could have on young people, I guarantee you they feel like their lives were worthwhile and meant something.

You're in it for the money. When a pre-med says "I want to help people, that's why I love medicine", they are in it for the money 95% of the time.
 
It kind of makes me sad that you can't answer that. You probably should have gone into business or engineering and just made money out of college. Would have been easier on you. Like I still, there's still time to drop out of med school.

What would I get out of medicine? Trying to help people. When I die I want to know I did something with my life that meant something. And I feel like being a doctor will help me reach that goal. And I know every field of medicine has lots and lots of patients who will treat them like **** and not appreciate what the doctor is trying to do. But there will be a few that appreciate a good doctor.
Like Perrotfish said, helping people is not unique to medicine. Pretty much every other profession out there helps people in some way. And there are several professions that would impact people more than a physician would. A good example that comes to mind is teaching. Some of the most influential people in my life have been the one or two amazing professors I've had. I can't imagine any physician treating me in the future coming close to the impact these professors have had on me.

Edit: I see you've answered the question and others have said the same thing I have while I was typing. I was too slow!
 
See, I think what a lot of medical students, residents, and physicians that post here are trying to get across is that you're not going to like being a medical student, resident, or even a doctor. Not in the sense that the starving artist likes his job, anyway. Medical school is 2 years of mind numbing fact memorization (ever tried to memorize the dictionary) followed by 2 years of sleeplessness, kiss-assery, and scut. Residency is 3-9 years of abuse and even less sleep. As a physician things will get better, but your work hours will still involve the threats of litigation and infection, an assembly line 15 minute/patient pace, a complete lack of origional creative thought, and of course the kind of truely visceral reaction you get from both seeing and smelling vomit and pus under flourescent lights day after day.

That's the difference between the medical student and the starving artist, that's the reason that you need to spend to much money to attract talented people to this field: because no one actually enjoys medicine. It's not that it's a bad job as jobs go. Once you get past the training the hours can be alright, the job security is great, and pay is good. However, like working on an assembly line, it is something that almost everyone does 100% to improve the quality of their time when they're NOT at work. If they take that away, and this job gets less lucrative, then there's really no reason for anyone with talent to go into this career.

Just my opinion, could be wrong.

👍
 
To everyone not concerned with money: why are the two most competitive specialties derm and plastic surgery?

Is it perhaps money/lifestyle?! :idea:
 
There are 100's of professions that will let you help people and let you feel like your life is worth living. Like a High School teacher. Think of the impact you could have on young people, I guarantee you they feel like their lives were worthwhile and meant something.

You're in it for the money. When a pre-med says "I want to help people, that's why I love medicine", they are in it for the money 95% of the time.

Being a high school teacher isn't as challenging as becoming a doctor. I do want to do something that's extremely challenging. I don't need a guidance counselor type discussion on career paths. I know what's out there.

And in response to my your last couple sentences. You caught me! I want money money money. I've been trolling you guys the entire time!!
/sarcasm
 
To everyone not concerned with money: why are the two most competitive specialties derm and plastic surgery?

Is it perhaps money/lifestyle?! :idea:
Yes, and if I could get into either one I would. For the money. I'm not stupid. You're missing the point altogether. The point wasn't to do this NOT to make money. The point was, let's do this and stop bitching about money.
 
I'll use your analogy to explain what I'm trying to say. That 16 year old who just wants a car to drive and doesn't care how cool it is can still be disappointed with it, if it comes with stains, cigarette burns, and dysfunctional windshield wipers.

Just the same, someone can go into medicine for reasons other than seeking a large salary and end up let down to find that what they are getting paid is downright insufficient for the amount of work and time they invest and/or the amount of debt they've incurred in trying to get there.

For the record, I'm not all that concerned with money and it's not near the top of my list of reasons for wanting to become a doctor. I just see a flaw in the line of thinking that those fit for medicine should work for whatever fair or unfair wage is set for them and simply accept it.

Fair enough. Good use of my analogy. 🙂

Still, I think the main difference is going to be the motivation to make it past the problems. A person who wants the car for looks might try to add a racing stripe to the car or something, but is more likely to just be downtrodden and irritated because he has to drive a car he doesn't think is cool enough.

A guy who just wanted a car can be disappointed about the shape of the car, but is probably going to be much more motivated to be happy with the car, since it's a lot easier to make a terrible car useable than to make a terrible car a haWt chick-magnet.

The guy who wants to do medicine for reasons other than financial can still be upset about the money issue, but it's easier for this guy to cope with the issue, and possibly overcome it, since the bar for "acceptable money" is at the bare minimum needed "to be comfortable", wherever that bar happens to be. The guy who enters medicine for financial reasons, though, is going to have a much harder time being happy, since the happiness is based on getting a lot of money (more than the other guy needs, since his motivation comes from other places), and therefore, is going to need a LOT more work and motivation to get to a place where he feels content with his compensation.
 
Yes, and if I could get into either one I would. For the money. I'm not stupid. You're missing the point altogether. The point wasn't to do this NOT to make money. The point was, let's do this and stop bitching about money.

It's important for our profession to care and whine about money. When the government makes medicare cuts that hurt our practices, we need people who are going to whine and moan about money so we can get reimbursed at a level sustainable to practice.

I'm sure glad everyone isn't as willing as you to just bend over and take it up the @$$ without complaining ever.
 
Yes, and if I could get into either one I would. For the money. I'm not stupid. You're missing the point altogether. The point wasn't to do this NOT to make money. The point was, let's do this and stop bitching about money.
I think a more important point to get across is to stop bitching on anonymous forums and start doing something about it. I cannot say this enough. Contact the AMA, the BOMs, various specialty organizations. Donate to physician PACs, etc. Why don't we start doing that instead of complaining (both about losing money and then, threads such as these, complaining about how others are complaining)? Sending emails to these organizations will take probably a little bit longer than it takes to write a post on here but those emails would have more of an impact than what you write here.

Med students/residents/attendings, correct me if I'm wrong about which organizations to contact.
 
Yes, and if I could get into either one I would. For the money. I'm not stupid. You're missing the point altogether. The point wasn't to do this NOT to make money. The point was, let's do this and stop bitching about money.

Wait, what? You just said that you were doing this because you wanted to help people. Besides their good lifestyle and sky high salaries, what distinguishes Derm and Plastics from the rest of medicine is that such a large part of their workload is cosmetic procedures. I mean, the bread and butter of those professions are, respectively, acne and breast implants. If this was all about helping people, why aren't you gunning for family practice?
 
Someone's gotta treat the sickos.

If you don't wanna do it, don't do it. And don't hate on those that do or their reasons for doing it.

If you do...then let's do this. And don't hate on the people that don't or their reasons for not doing it.

mmm'k?

Some people are just the way they are...

http://img.*****ail.net/img/5/7/1257.jpg
 
It's important for our profession to care and whine about money. When the government makes medicare cuts that hurt our practices, we need people who are going to whine and moan about money so we can get reimbursed at a level sustainable to practice.

I'm sure glad everyone isn't as willing as you to just bend over and take it up the @$$ without complaining ever.

No dude, coming on SDN and bitching about money WILL NOT make anything change. My point is everyone is ******ed for coming on here and making 100 threads a day about money. It's not why I joined SDN. Get it? Probably not.
 
I've gotten so fed up with people b'ing and moaning on SDN about how they're going to be poor. "Obama is ruining us all." "It's not worth it." "The smart people never go to med school." It's really old. As if we haven't already read it in 40 other threads by 100 other people. It's just unnecessary.

But I know I'm not the only one who doesn't care. And to people in med school/residency, don't bother telling me how ignorant I am and how my mood will change once I get to M3 or start working resident hours. I've heard that before too, by 100 other people in 40 other threads.

Does an artist live his life in a small studio apartment, never making it big, but creating art, because he wants to be miserable? Did he do it for the money? Or did he want to make art. He's not going to be able to give his family everything. Maybe he won't even have enough money to support a family on his own. But someone doesn't go into art to do all that. But let's also not pretend that a doctor is going to be a starving artist, ok? Let's pretend we're all smarter than that.

Isn't it possible some of us want to go to med school. We want to be residents. We just want to be doctors. The money isn't the motivation here people. I understand for some of you it is, and I'm not judging you. I think money is a perfectly acceptable reason to go into a profession. But maybe if you do want to make a lot of money and you feel like you wont.... you just should leave SDN and stop pursuing medicine now. Cause you're obviously hurt about much of your life you're giving up and how much money you'll make.

Who else is fine with the money and really wishes people would just stop beating the dead horse?


Thank you so much JoshUNCW! I am glad there are people out there who feel the same way as I do. I can't wait to start medical school in august and learn the art and science behind medicine!
 
No dude, coming on SDN and bitching about money WILL NOT make anything change. My point is everyone is ******ed for coming on here and making 100 threads a day about money. It's not why I joined SDN. Get it? Probably not.
You do realize that you don't have to open/read any thread you don't want to right? If these types of threads annoy you, the simple solution is to just not open them. There are faaaaar more threads on SDN not about money than about money.
 
No dude, coming on SDN and bitching about money WILL NOT make anything change. My point is everyone is ******ed for coming on here and making 100 threads a day about money. It's not why I joined SDN. Get it? Probably not.

I never said complaining on SDN would make a change, did I? It obviously won't you genius.
I was just implying that someone like you who is telling everybody to stop whining about money and just accept what comes is probably less likely to fight for higher reimbursements in the real world. Get it? Probably not.
 
I bet your point of view will change with some experience in Medical School and Residency.
 
Knowing now that he's interested n derm and plastics... well. that sort of ruins your whole argument.

I want to help people!! ....With their acne and wrinkles.
 
I never said complaining on SDN would make a change, did I? It obviously won't you genius.
I was just implying that someone like you who is telling everybody to stop whining about money and just accept what comes is probably less likely to fight for higher reimbursements in the real world. Get it? Probably not.

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This right here. Its not even about fighting for higher reimbursements, just keeping the ones we have. Or how about fighting the encroachment of nurses into the practice of medicine? I think medicine will be a great job but only we take action to keep it that way. People "bitching" about it on SDN is another venue for people to hear about it.

I bet hardly any of you who say you just want to practice regardless of the money have actually done anything to help protect the profession.
 
👍

This right here. Its not even about fighting for higher reimbursements, just keeping the ones we have. Or how about fighting the encroachment of nurses into the practice of medicine? I think medicine will be a great job but only we take action to keep it that way. People "bitching" about it on SDN is another venue for people to hear about it.

I bet hardly any of you who say you just want to practice regardless of the money have actually done anything to help protect the profession.

I wouldn't be surprised if hardly any of the posters with opposing viewpoints have actually done anything either. Why take action when you can just b*tch about it online?
 
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