Anybody not take calculus and still get interviews?

[Fakhter]

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My major doesn't require me to take calculus but it does require me to take two semesters of statistics. Do you think I can substitute that for calculus? I'm just trying to get into any MD school.

 

[passionformed]

Take at least Calc 1. Why close any doors?

 

[cerno]

Calc is required as a prereq for a ton of the sciences at my school. I recommend taking it so you can expand the choice of courses you can take, even if you don't have to.

 

[DrEnderW]

Just take Calc. Take it over the summer somewhere else if need be.

 

[CliveStaples]

No calculus. 6 IIs. N = 1.

 

[justkeepswiming]

I had 2 semesters of statistics and no college calc, and I've done just fine this season. I did have AP calc credits, but not sure if that made a difference.

 

[MilMD01]

I took AP Calc in high school, and the only math that I've taken in undergrad is Stats. I got 5 II, 2 acceptances, with a 29Q 3.65 cGPA. (applied 12 schools)

 

[1stmeds]

yes and no. depends on the school. each school will have a different policy about course substitution.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Honestly, take Calc 1&2 just for the experience, even if absolutely no medical school you end up applying to requires it.

Calculus is a wonderful subject that will help you think analytically and understand fundamental science, like physics, more intuitively.

If you find you like basic calculus, take multivariate (Calc 3) and it gets even better.

 

[itsmcv2015]

All I took was stats and I got in to a few MD programs. If it's not a prereq, they don't really care.

 

[bluepotato]

I took stats and algebra but not calculus and I've still gotten interviews and one acceptance so far.

 

[sinombre]

FWIW, most schools don't require calculus. Plenty require statistics or calculus (so the year of stats you take will be sufficient). You should be fine without calc... I wouldn't take it if you aren't really a math person.

 

[Ismet]

Do many schools 100% require Calc 1 anymore? I know Harvard does, and probably a couple other top-tiers, but other than that, I think it's a dying requirement. I'm pretty sure the vast majority will accept statistics in place of calc, and I don't think there are many schools that require 2 semesters of college math. Why don't you just check the admissions requirements on the websites of the schools you're interested in?

 

[plumhill]

From what I've read, med schools want at least one semester or one year of college-level math. Many times that does imply calculus, but if your statistics courses are rigorous, you can probably get away with it. That being said, you're probably safer taking at least one semester of calculus. The first semester is not difficult.

 

[sinombre]

From what I've read, med schools want at least one semester or one year of college-level math. Many times that does imply calculus, but if your statistics courses are rigorous, you can probably get away with it. That being said, you're probably safer taking at least one semester of calculus. The first semester is not difficult.

This isn't true. "College-level math" implies calculus or statistics, not just calculus. Taking statistics in place of calculus is acceptable almost everywhere (everywhere I applied to). Statistics is also a whole lot more relevant to medicine.

OP, just look at the admission requirements for the schools you're interested in. Almost every school lists them on their website.

 

[dgsilvervid]

No calculus 12 II, of course I applied to all schools that didn't require it. I despise math.

 

[itsmcv2015]

Stats is also much more relevant than calc when it comes to medicine. I took calc back in HS and I can't say I've used any of it. At most they defined things using dv/dt on occasion back in physiology and a few courses since then. All of our research centers on understanding stats though.

 

[JGimpel]

Gunners: One semester of non-engineering calculus and one semester of statistics, apply and matriculate. Your physics classes should also be non-engineering unless you want to suffer more and possibly get a lower grade. You are a gunner, after all.
Non-gunners: Get through pre-calc, take one semester of statistics, identify gunners for future reference, apply and matriculate. Gotta do physics too, but don't do engineering-level or I will laugh at you if I'm interviewing you.

 

[Doctor Strange]

Calculus is fun. I would recommend taking it even if it's not required.

 

[911 Turbo]

Calculus is a very interesting subject. I would recommend taking cal 1, 2, and 3 just for the experience.


(srs)

 

[BigBlueBear]

That Darwin guy made a big list of the ones that require calculus. I think there were like 5 total out of the 120+ in the country.

If you're not good at math, don't take it. Your stats will cover almost every school's requirements, and if you're bad at math your GPA will suffer.

 

[itsmcv2015]

One semester of non-engineering calculus and one semester of statistics, apply and matriculate. Your physics classes should also be non-engineering unless you want to suffer more and possibly get a lower grade.

👍

Semester of calc optional.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Calculus is a very interesting subject. I would recommend taking cal 1, 2, and 3 just for the experience.


(srs)

👍

Agreed. Also, if you end up pursuing Rads or RadOnc, you're going to need it, as well as calculus-based physics. Of course, those residency programs won't look at your college transcripts, but it's better to have seen that material before rather than trying to cram it in while also learning the specifics of those individual specialties.

 

[Guero]

That Darwin guy made a big list of the ones that require calculus. I think there were like 5 total out of the 120+ in the country.

If you're not good at math, don't take it. Your stats will cover almost every school's requirements, and if you're bad at math your GPA will suffer.

Yup, I applied to 34 schools that don't require calculus and got into several of them. I also agree with what Sinombre said, "If you're not a math guy, don't take it." But if you are a math guy, you're interested, and know you'd do well, go for it. GL either way.

 

[notbobtrustme]

calculus is worthless; even engineers don't really need calculus other than pre-reqs.

 

[acslater99]

Never mind regard this post.

 

[weezynation]

Calculus is fun. I would recommend taking it even if it's not required.

Not fun if you fail it because you are not a math person and then realize it's a requirement for only a couple schools.

 

[ToldYouSo]

Calculus is a very interesting subject. I would recommend taking cal 1, 2, and 3 just for the experience.


(srs)

Agreed. At my school calc 2 and linear algebra are pre-reqs for "real" mathematical statistics and probability. Everyone should take 1 and 2 at the very least.

 

[weezynation]

Agreed. At my school calc 2 and linear algebra are pre-reqs for "real" mathematical statistics and probability. Everyone should take 1 and 2 at the very least.

Everyone? Why should someone who hates math and is not very good at it take Calc 1 or 2? Just so they can say they took it and had the experience? If someone is good at math and wants the experience, by all means take it if thats what you want to do. However, for people who despise math, it makes absolutely no sense to take Calc and get a bad grade hurting your most important sgpa. Especially considering it won't help you on the mcat or in medical school.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Everyone? Why should someone who hates math and is not very good at it take Calc 1 or 2? Just so they can say they took it and had the experience? If someone is good at math and wants the experience, by all means take it if thats what you want to do. However, for people who despise math, it makes absolutely no sense to take Calc and get a bad grade hurting your most important sgpa. Especially considering it won't help you on the mcat or in medical school.

A little presumptuous there. While minimally helpful on the MCAT, differentials are quite useful for really understanding and applying pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics, and are used extensively in quite a bit of the meaningful research that you may partake in as a medical student. Also, the field of Radiation Oncology uses Calculus quite a bit; it's important to be able to do the basics yourself so you know what exactly needs to be programmed into your equipment for a specific patient.

 

[487806]

Calculus is fun. I would recommend taking it even if it's not required.

Calculus is a very interesting subject. I would recommend taking cal 1, 2, and 3 just for the experience.


(srs)

👍

Agreed. Also, if you end up pursuing Rads or RadOnc, you're going to need it, as well as calculus-based physics. Of course, those residency programs won't look at your college transcripts, but it's better to have seen that material before rather than trying to cram it in while also learning the specifics of those individual specialties.

Unfortunately, most premeds have a passionate hatred (or fear) of calculus and calc-based physics, arguing that calculus is a complete waste of time and too much unnecessary memorization. It's best to ease their worries by eliminating calculus as a math prereq, and stick with basic high school algebra (college algebra is just that unless you're talking about abstract algebra), which they seem to love.

 

[CrimsonKing]

Unfortunately, most premeds have a passionate hatred (or fear) of calculus and calc-based physics, arguing that calculus is a complete waste of time and too much unnecessary memorization. It's best to ease their worries by eliminating calculus as a math prereq, and stick with basic high school algebra (college algebra is just that unless you're talking about abstract algebra), which they seem to love.

Indeed, though it seems that most of that ridiculousness gets weeded out through the admissions process. Most of the people in my class actually enjoy math, including calculus, whereas most premeds from undergrad hated it.

Haters gonna hate.

EDIT: I also want to add that I think maintaining/adding Calculus as a pre-req for medical school is crucial to ensuring that incoming medical students are really capable of analytical thinking beyond the rote memorization that they use in Biology. Can't think critically/analytically? You're probably not going to do well in Calculus.

 

[487806]

calculus is worthless; even engineers don't really need calculus other than pre-reqs.

Thanks for proving my previous point. Calculus is an unnecessary burden for math-hating premeds, so why have it in the first place?

Especially considering it won't help you on the mcat or in medical school.

Definitely bro. Calc is worthless in medical school and burdensome in college. Calc = 👎

 

[487806]

Gunners: One semester of non-engineering calculus and one semester of statistics, apply and matriculate. Your physics classes should also be non-engineering unless you want to suffer more and possibly get a lower grade. You are a gunner, after all.
Non-gunners: Get through pre-calc, take one semester of statistics, identify gunners for future reference, apply and matriculate. Gotta do physics too, but don't do engineering-level or I will laugh at you if I'm interviewing you.

Nah, way too difficult list in nongunners. Precalc is much much harder than basic algebra and should be eliminated. Very basic statistics should be a requirement (i.e. ignore all those complicated stuff on statistical tests and normal curves = )

 

[487806]

EDIT: I also want to add that I think maintaining/adding Calculus as a pre-req for medical school is crucial to ensuring that incoming medical students are really capable of analytical thinking beyond the rote memorization that they use in Biology. Can't think critically/analytically? You're probably not going to do well in Calculus.

Based on what I have gathered, a majority of premeds argue that calculus is wasteful memorization, not critical thinking. Of course, these "holier-than-thou" premeds know what they are talking about, so I must adhere to their advice.

 

[487806]

I believe I have made my point in my earlier posts. In case if people missed my sarcasm, let me be clear. Calculus should be a math requirement in all US medical schools, and algebra-based physics should be replaced with calculus-based physics. Furthermore, I strongly suggest all medical schools to employ linear algebra and differential equations as recommended courses. All of these subjects involve and enhance critical thinking and analysis, which are necessary to succeed in medical school and beyond. Focus on the concepts rather than the equations/formulas. Think broadly not narrowly.

 

[TriagePreMed]

I took only Calc 1 and didn't think it was a difficult subject at all. I would recommend taking it and statistics.

 

[weezynation]

A little presumptuous there. While minimally helpful on the MCAT, differentials are quite useful for really understanding and applying pharmacokinetics/pharmacodynamics, and are used extensively in quite a bit of the meaningful research that you may partake in as a medical student. Also, the field of Radiation Oncology uses Calculus quite a bit; it's important to be able to do the basics yourself so you know what exactly needs to be programmed into your equipment for a specific patient.

I stand corrected on that then I guess. I've taken the vast majority of the 1st year med school curriculum, but not med school pharm. So with that being true, I still do not see the point of risking you sgpa in order to take a course that is not required. The fact that it is not a requirement all schools except for a few shows that Pharm can be handled without a background in Calc, right? As for Rad Onc, I don't think someone who sucks at math should take a course just because they could potentially end up in that specialty down the line.

 

[487806]

Everyone? Why should someone who hates math and is not very good at it take Calc 1 or 2? Just so they can say they took it and had the experience?

Also, many premeds hate organic chem and complain it's a waste of time memorizing all those reactions and mechanisms... but they still have to take it. Calc/lin. algebra/diff eq have the flexibility of applications as opposed to the direct memorization in organic chem.

 

[weezynation]

Indeed, though it seems that most of that ridiculousness gets weeded out through the admissions process. Most of the people in my class actually enjoy math, including calculus, whereas most premeds from undergrad hated it.

Haters gonna hate.

EDIT: I also want to add that I think maintaining/adding Calculus as a pre-req for medical school is crucial to ensuring that incoming medical students are really capable of analytical thinking beyond the rote memorization that they use in Biology. Can't think critically/analytically? You're probably not going to do well in Calculus.

I was terrible at Calc but have been very successful at med courses in which our exams are super applied. I have no issue with analytical thinking, but I do hate math. However, I am just one person though. I agree that if someone cannot think analytically and expect med school to be rote memorization and regurgitation is in for a rude awakening. My fiance hates math more than I do, was smart enough to avoid Calc in college (in my opinion) and she's a stellar med student...only had trouble with Biochem but still passed, and has killed Step 1 and most of M3 so far. Again, n=1 I guess.

 

[weezynation]

Also, many premeds hate organic chem and complain it's a waste of time memorizing all those reactions and mechanisms... but they still have to take it. Calc/lin. algebra/diff eq have the flexibility of applications as opposed to the direct memorization in organic chem.

In terms of medical school, it most definitely is a waste of time to memorize all those reactions. And Orgo was one of my favorite subjects in college and I did very well in it. Yes there are some reactions you just have to memorize, but if Orgo is learned correctly you should be able to use what you've learned from the basics and apply it to most mechanisms in order to predict the product. Many people struggle so much with it because they simply try to memorize every reaction instead of understanding why the mechanism happens as it does. I think orgo helped me in a few Biochem lectures and that's it. Maybe it helps in Pharm since I havent taken it.

 

[487806]

In terms of medical school, it most definitely is a waste of time to memorize all those reactions. And Orgo was one of my favorite subjects in college and I did very well in it. Yes there are some reactions you just have to memorize, but if Orgo is learned correctly you should be able to use what you've learned from the basics and apply it to most mechanisms in order to predict the product. Many people struggle so much with it because they simply try to memorize every reaction instead of understanding why the mechanism happens as it does. I think orgo helped me in a few Biochem lectures and that's it. Maybe it helps in Pharm since I havent taken it.

This same argument explains why calculus and calc-based physics should be a requirement.

 

[487806]

I was terrible at Calc but have been very successful at med courses in which our exams are super applied. I have no issue with analytical thinking, but I do hate math. However, I am just one person though. I agree that if someone cannot think analytically and expect med school to be rote memorization and regurgitation is in for a rude awakening. My fiance hates math more than I do, was smart enough to avoid Calc in college (in my opinion) and she's a stellar med student...only had trouble with Biochem but still passed, and has killed Step 1 and most of M3 so far. Again, n=1 I guess.

Well that's subjective. People can hate math but do well in organic chem, or others can hate organic chem, but do well in math. To equalize the differences, calc and calc-based physics should be a requirement (just as orgo, bio, chem are requirements).

 

[weezynation]

This same argument explains why calculus and calc-based physics should be a requirement.

When I took Calc, I tried my best to apply it instead of memorizing but it was just over my head. However, I am still able to think critically and analytically. I dont expect we will be able to fully understand each other's perspective considering math doesn't come easily to me and you are a rocket scientist (probably can do linear algebra in your sleep).

 

[487806]

When I took Calc, I tried my best to apply it instead of memorizing but it was just over my head. However, I am still able to think critically and analytically. I dont expect we will be able to fully understand each other's perspective considering math doesn't come easily to me and you are a rocket scientist (probably can do linear algebra in your sleep).

The point is you don't really "memorize" math. All you do is use the formulas given and solve many problems until you are thorough. Same applies for orgo. Know the reactions, but apply it to solve many problems. Both methods are good to get the formulas stuck on your head. Also, math isn't memorization, it's application. Related rates, optimization, surface area, volume, etc. are all applications (along with physics and engineering). The process seems like memorization, but by solving many problems, it comes naturally for anyone. Know the basics first, but if unsure, try using it in a problem to get the feel for it. Determination is key to succeeding in calc and calc-based physics.

 

[911 Turbo]

I might get flamed for this but I legitimately think that the US education system needs a large restructuring in terms of the level of math education provided per grade. This is how it should be


7th grade: Algebra I and II
8th grade: Trigonometry and Geometry
9th grade: Calculus I (derivation)
10th grade: Calculus II (Integration)
11th grade: Calculus of many variables
12th grade: Differential Equations


Considering some kids start learning calculus from their parents at grade 4/5, I don't think this is asking too much.

So why make kids learn math this early on? Because math teaches you how to think. If you are good at math, you will be good at mostly everything else, from English to chemistry to programming. I believe, based on what I've seen, that kids who start learning this math in college aren't nearly as intelligent (biologically) than kids who started developing their brains early on.




And what do you think the Chinese are doing?

 

[487806]

I might get flamed for this but I legitimately think that the US education system needs a large restructuring in terms of the level of math education provided per grade. This is how it should be


7th grade: Algebra I and II
8th grade: Trigonometry and Geometry
9th grade: Calculus I (derivation)
10th grade: Calculus II (Integration)
11th grade: Calculus of many variables
12th grade: Differential Equations

Your plan is a bit extreme. I agree that precalc is a waste of time (it's just restating algebra). Here's my idea.

7th grade: Algebra I - factoring, quadratic formula, exponentials and logs
8th grade: Algebra II - matrices, imaginary numbers (Euler's formula), trigonometry
9th grade: Geometry and Number Theory
10th grade: Calculus I - derivatives
11th grade: Calculus II - integrals and series
12th grade: Multivarate Calculus

Save differential equations for college

 

[funtertaining15]

Calculus in 9th and Differentials in 12th? Those are big dreams, my friend.... and slightly implausible. You'd have to gradually ease kids into that, and that could take years, decades even, in the US...in my opinion anyways 🙂

Sent from my LG-P509 using SDN Mobile

 

[KnuxNole]

I might get flamed for this but I legitimately think that the US education system needs a large restructuring in terms of the level of math education provided per grade. This is how it should be


7th grade: Algebra I and II
8th grade: Trigonometry and Geometry
9th grade: Calculus I (derivation)
10th grade: Calculus II (Integration)
11th grade: Calculus of many variables
12th grade: Differential Equations


Considering some kids start learning calculus from their parents at grade 4/5, I don't think this is asking too much.

So why make kids learn math this early on? Because math teaches you how to think. If you are good at math, you will be good at mostly everything else, from English to chemistry to programming. I believe, based on what I've seen, that kids who start learning this math in college aren't nearly as intelligent (biologically) than kids who started developing their brains early on.




And what do you think the Chinese are doing?

calculus in 9th grade? Most kids in 9th grade can barely do pre-algebra 😛
There would be more high school dropouts and girls depending on the pole for money 😱

The Chinese can school us in math, but sadly, that's not the case in America. There's a BIG social barrier involved. Also, its bad enough to explain to kids WHY they need to learn algebra/calculus. Any kid in high school who asks their teacher this gets shot down with a referral. They don't truly know why learning math is essential as long as they know how to add and subtract.

Although I found math easy to come by(for some reason it "clicked"), I can understand why it's so hard for the average person. I used to tutor calculus in college, and people had a hard time applying things. Memorization is usually what people cling to.

 

[StudyShy]

Your plan is a bit extreme. I agree that precalc is a waste of time (it's just restating algebra). Here's my idea.

7th grade: Algebra I - factoring, quadratic formula, exponentials and logs
8th grade: Algebra II - matrices, imaginary numbers (Euler's formula), trigonometry
9th grade: Geometry and Number Theory
10th grade: Calculus I - derivatives
11th grade: Calculus II - integrals and series
12th grade: Multivarate Calculus

Save differential equations for college

I think diffy Q in the summer. 😛

And kids can learn this stuff. I'm teaching my kindergartener multiplication, and it seems very intuitive to him.