Anybody want to drop out and do something else?

[HappyKitten]

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I've researched all kinds of jobs and most I either have no skills or experience for or don't pay anything. My residency isn't the worst on hours but more days than not im overwhelmed. Anybody out there considered dropping out and becoming RN? Is that completely crazy? Work sucks but you work a few shifts a week and then you're off.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

You could have been an RN 4 years and a couple hundred thousand dollars ago...not to mention you'd have to endure even more schooling to take nursing classes at this point to even be eligible. Not a smart financial direction to go.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Sounds like you're not a happy kitten.

I would consider being evaluated for depression. And if you think "I'm not depressed", you're the wrong person to answer that question.

Once you finish your residency, there are lots of things you can do as a practicing physician. Ask someone for help.

 

[neusu]

Find a way to be happy, or if not happy, at least content with your lot in life. Nursing has its issues as well.

 

[northernpsy]

I can remember being jealous of the nurses when I was in training too. 🙂
Since you've made it this far, I think your best bet is to finish residency and then look for jobs that are on the lighter side (maybe you can find a part time position if that's an option in your specialty). I'm not sure but I don't even know if it is possible to work as an RN if you already have training as a physician.

 

[thxleave]

Well I graduated with a Caribbean MD, and didn't match last year. Probably not going to reapply this year. Was able to get a job within the government, it qualifies for PSLF. I thought a Carib MD was going to land me at Starbucks or McDonalds. So I was zealous and applied to 350 jobs within nonprofits and government. Was able to get 40 interviews, went on 20 interviews, and received 3 job offers. Still getting interview calls, since the government takes a while to sort out job applications.

Interview range job salary was 30k-90k. Not the best, but they were all 9-4 jobs, strong union, PTO, great benefits, and comes with a 457b. So you can increase you pre-tax investment to lower your AGI. I think I'll probably pay 20k for my med school endeavors for 10 years, and I'll have a million dollars forgiven? 440k student loans, made me glad I took out the max every year.

I went on interviews for air pollution scientist, environmental investigations, research program coordinator, hospital auditor, hospital liason, energy consultant, live stock investigator, milk quality analysis, and so on. The MD with a strong cover letter will get you places, despite what some might say. This was all within 2 months.

 

[hallowmann]

Well I graduated with a Caribbean MD, and didn't match last year. Probably not going to reapply this year. Was able to get a job within the government, it qualifies for PSLF. I thought a Carib MD was going to land me at Starbucks or McDonalds. So I was zealous and applied to 350 jobs within nonprofits and government. Was able to get 40 interviews, went on 20 interviews, and received 3 job offers. Still getting interview calls, since the government takes a while to sort out job applications.

Interview range job salary was 30k-90k. Not the best, but they were all 9-4 jobs, strong union, PTO, great benefits, and comes with a 457b. So you can increase you pre-tax investment to lower your AGI. I think I'll probably pay 20k for my med school endeavors for 10 years, and I'll have a million dollars forgiven? 440k student loans, made me glad I took out the max every year.

I went on interviews for air pollution scientist, environmental investigations, research program coordinator, hospital auditor, hospital liason, energy consultant, live stock investigator, milk quality analysis, and so on. The MD with a strong cover letter will get you places, despite what some might say. This was all within 2 months.

I'm really sorry to hear that. I followed your posts for a while on VMD. If you don't mind me asking, any reason why you don't want to try for the match again? Is it the cost, or does it just not seem worth it at this point (i.e. not what you want anymore)?

Your options aren't too bad at all. I'm glad its working out.

 

[thxleave]

I'm really sorry to hear that. I followed your posts for a while on VMD. If you don't mind me asking, any reason why you don't want to try for the match again? Is it the cost, or does it just not seem worth it at this point (i.e. not what you want anymore)?

Your options aren't too bad at all. I'm glad its working out.

I went into medicine for the wrong reasons. Was born and raised in government housing. Life on food stamps. Wanted the whole rags to white coat story. It was idealistic to believe I will become a MD, and go back to low income communities to provide care. I wasn't interested in medicine overall, but trying to make something of myself, and to vindicate life growing up in a high crime/low income area.

I grew up after medical school, and realized.... Becoming a doctor isn't going to vindicate my bad childhood, or make me fulfilled. Spending time with friends and family is where I should find fulfillment. Not matching so far has lead me to quit smoking, BP 140's/80's dropped to 110's/80's, HR 90 to HR 60, biking 20 miles a day, going camping, and traveling across America. Sometimes my blood boils, when for example I had to sign up temporarily for low income health care coverage, and all I had was shady clinics with DNP, PAs, and ND. With no option to a MD/DO. But it's not my battle, I decide to move on, and focus on living life. I'll still help society somehow, but I'll just volunteer every other Saturday instead.

I did the math, I can probably save up for a down payment to get a house next year. Pay $150-$200 a month for student loans for 10 years. It was difficult getting family members to understand. But honestly they saw the sacrifices I made, and really at the end of the day, it's my life. I am going to live it, and live it well.

 

[HappyKitten]

Well I graduated with a Caribbean MD, and didn't match last year. Probably not going to reapply this year. Was able to get a job within the government, it qualifies for PSLF. I thought a Carib MD was going to land me at Starbucks or McDonalds. So I was zealous and applied to 350 jobs within nonprofits and government. Was able to get 40 interviews, went on 20 interviews, and received 3 job offers. Still getting interview calls, since the government takes a while to sort out job applications.

Interview range job salary was 30k-90k. Not the best, but they were all 9-4 jobs, strong union, PTO, great benefits, and comes with a 457b. So you can increase you pre-tax investment to lower your AGI. I think I'll probably pay 20k for my med school endeavors for 10 years, and I'll have a million dollars forgiven? 440k student loans, made me glad I took out the max every year.

I went on interviews for air pollution scientist, environmental investigations, research program coordinator, hospital auditor, hospital liason, energy consultant, live stock investigator, milk quality analysis, and so on. The MD with a strong cover letter will get you places, despite what some might say. This was all within 2 months.

Wow, did you have any prior experiences in those fields you interviewed?

 

[thxleave]

Wow, did you have any prior experiences in those fields you interviewed?

Nope. Government jobs are filled with nepotism and internal hiring. So if an outsider with potential know how to get pass HR screening, hiring managers get excited. Government jobs assume you know nothing and train you from the bottom. You just have to know how to apply, organize applications, and get pass HR.

 

[Mad Jack]

Well I graduated with a Caribbean MD, and didn't match last year. Probably not going to reapply this year. Was able to get a job within the government, it qualifies for PSLF. I thought a Carib MD was going to land me at Starbucks or McDonalds. So I was zealous and applied to 350 jobs within nonprofits and government. Was able to get 40 interviews, went on 20 interviews, and received 3 job offers. Still getting interview calls, since the government takes a while to sort out job applications.

Interview range job salary was 30k-90k. Not the best, but they were all 9-4 jobs, strong union, PTO, great benefits, and comes with a 457b. So you can increase you pre-tax investment to lower your AGI. I think I'll probably pay 20k for my med school endeavors for 10 years, and I'll have a million dollars forgiven? 440k student loans, made me glad I took out the max every year.

I went on interviews for air pollution scientist, environmental investigations, research program coordinator, hospital auditor, hospital liason, energy consultant, live stock investigator, milk quality analysis, and so on. The MD with a strong cover letter will get you places, despite what some might say. This was all within 2 months.

If the PSLF program isn't cancelled or capped, both of which are very strong possibilities.

 

[tennischamp822]

.

 

[Mad Jack]

I think people will get grandfathered in.

Banking on promises made by a bankrupt government is not the most intelligent way to go through life. The bubble created by the PSLF program is so large that all rumors are pointing toward a $57,500 or so cap being placed on it, as it was never meant for physicians or lawyers (the groups that are primarily in-line to benefit from it as things currently stand). This is doable, as PSLF is technically not a repayment model but rather a forgiveness program that doesn't kick in until after 120 payments are made. Your actual repayment program is whatever you utilize, and would be unaffected. While the government has traditionally allowed borrowers with older MPNs to utilize programs present within these MPNs, the argument has been made that, due to the budgetary nature of the program, it could be overridden through Congressional action, as money cannot be doled out if they refuse to pay. This situation might both occur and be politically feasible if they paint physicians as "abusing programs meant for teachers and public defenders to save hundreds of thousands, and in some cases a million or more dollars on top of their already generous salaries." It would be an easy PR sell that the GOP would like because it saves money and the Dems would like because it appeals to the "middle class" while only harming the perceived "wealthy."

Basically, what I'm saying is don't count your chickens before they hatch in a country so unstable Trump is on the presidential ticket.

 

[hallowmann]

Banking on promises made by a bankrupt government is not the most intelligent way to go through life. The bubble created by the PSLF program is so large that all rumors are pointing toward a $57,500 or so cap being placed on it, as it was never meant for physicians or lawyers (the groups that are primarily in-line to benefit from it as things currently stand). This is doable, as PSLF is technically not a repayment model but rather a forgiveness program that doesn't kick in until after 120 payments are made. Your actual repayment program is whatever you utilize, and would be unaffected. While the government has traditionally allowed borrowers with older MPNs to utilize programs present within these MPNs, the argument has been made that, due to the budgetary nature of the program, it could be overridden through Congressional action, as money cannot be doled out if they refuse to pay. This situation might both occur and be politically feasible if they paint physicians as "abusing programs meant for teachers and public defenders to save hundreds of thousands, and in some cases a million or more dollars on top of their already generous salaries." It would be an easy PR sell that the GOP would like because it saves money and the Dems would like because it appeals to the "middle class" while only harming the perceived "wealthy."

Basically, what I'm saying is don't count your chickens before they hatch in a country so unstable Trump is on the presidential ticket.

Would he be able to extend it to PAYE or re-PAYE or something and be in the same boat just 10 years later?

 

[thxleave]

Would he be able to extend it to PAYE or re-PAYE or something and be in the same boat just 10 years later?

REPAYE has a built in forgiveness after 25 years, but that one is taxable. Forgiveness will be counted for income that year, and IRS will handle that. I am not too worried about PSLF cap. All budgets proposing cap are for new borrowers.

I also researched some cheap online community college classes I can take forever to defer loans. Do you know PE can be retaken forever and allows you access to the gym to the community college? Also you can reduce taxable income by 2k per year spent on education.

 

[Mad Jack]

Would he be able to extend it to PAYE or re-PAYE or something and be in the same boat just 10 years later?

Yes, but the downside to these programs is that you are taxed equal to the forgiven balance. For a balance of around $1,000,000, that would be a tax bill of around $400,000 that would be immediately due to the IRS. They can take that 400k from almost any assets you own, including retirement accounts and other assets that are protected from normal bankruptcy proceedings. Even your primary residence can be seized, though that practice is highly discouraged.

 

[tennischamp822]

.

 

[Mad Jack]

Holy crap - Obama's 2017 budget proposes a $57,500 cap on forgiveness.

Yep. And you can bet Hillary will be on board for more of the same come next term.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

Holy crap - Obama's 2017 budget proposes a $57,500 cap on forgiveness.

So you need to remember that there are ton of lawyers out there (yes, lawyers) who are very invested in repayment plans sticking around, including PSLF. We're pushovers and aren't going to fight for things, but they will. The general word from them (and from other student loan experts) is that PSLF is going to stick around for people already in it but that it will likely be phased out for new borrowers. So if you're already in repayment or have loans that could be in repayment, you're probably OK (not 100% guaranteed but probably).

 

[AdmiralChz]

One thing you need to know about the government and lending programs - it is the safest deal out there. That's why government bonds are deemed some of the safest investments out there, but also provide little interest. The government has been in much worse financial sorts in the past and has never defaulted on programs such as this, and precedent is pretty important here.

The most likely thing to occur if is PSLF is deemed too expensive by administration/congress/whomever, it will simply be phased out. But government contracts are fairly ironclad and very difficult to change - people already in them can be reasonably assured it will be honored.

 

[Crayola227]

So you need to remember that there are ton of lawyers out there (yes, lawyers) who are very invested in repayment plans sticking around, including PSLF. We're pushovers and aren't going to fight for things, but they will. The general word from them (and from other student loan experts) is that PSLF is going to stick around for people already in it but that it will likely be phased out for new borrowers. So if you're already in repayment or have loans that could be in repayment, you're probably OK (not 100% guaranteed but probably).

Thank God for the lawyers, for once. I keep saying that it's the Holy Trinity of covering all the needs of modern day living: MD, JD, and a mechanic that hopefully has some fixitup skills.

 

[MackandBlues]

Yes, but the downside to these programs is that you are taxed equal to the forgiven balance. For a balance of around $1,000,000, that would be a tax bill of around $400,000 that would be immediately due to the IRS. They can take that 400k from almost any assets you own, including retirement accounts and other assets that are protected from normal bankruptcy proceedings. Even your primary residence can be seized, though that practice is highly discouraged.

You can be put on an installment plan but the max is over 72 months plus a 1.5% or so not paid on time fee to avoid them freezing your bank account to get their money. I speak from experience 🙁

 

[Mad Jack]

You can be put on an installment plan but the max is over 72 months plus a 1.5% or so not paid on time fee to avoid them freezing your bank account to get their money. I speak from experience 🙁

Sorry to hear dude. The IRS is no ****ing joke, and that's exactly why I don't trust any of these "forgiveness" plans to take care of my debt for me.

 

[MackandBlues]

Sorry to hear dude. The IRS is no ****ing joke, and that's exactly why I don't trust any of these "forgiveness" plans to take care of my debt for me.

Thanks - it's not horrible. Just miscalculated how much I'd owe at the end and so on an installment plan. But doesn't show on your credit report or anything. But yeah max of 72 months.