Anyone buying a computer?

[Yogi Bear]

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funny story this morning. i cell phone randomly rings at 11am this morning. i see that it has some uknown area code. since i had sent some update letters to a few med schools last week, i'm thinking that it might be a lucky call. turns out it was only dell customer service conducting a survey for some peripherals i had ordered. i'd gotta complement dell for constantly monitoring their customer service.

back to the celeron/P4 debate, I just wanted to reiterate that, imho, for the average med student, getting a P4 isn't worth the extra money.

1) if u were a serious gamer, you would most likely not need advice about what type of laptop to buy since u'd already be pretty proficient w/ graphics card, cpu, etc.

2) if you wanted a complete system but worry about costs, get a cheap $800 toshiba w/ celeron. at the same mhz, it's about 10-20% slower than a P4. i.e. it might take 5 seconds instead of 4 seconds to open up MS word, or a minute to encode a mp3 instead of 45s. often, it's not noticeable. To get a P4 laptop at around 2ghz, expect to dish out ~$400 more. Unlike desktops where switching cpus is easy, and difference in price between celerons and P4's are small, there's quite a bit of premium to pay for the extra performance in laptops. often, this is associated w/ the better cpu, a slightly better graphics card, bigger hd, etc. associated w/ the more expensive laptops. all of these components are what makes the more expensive machines faster--not only the cpu. DON'T fall for the MhZ gimmick! Getting a P4 laptop means paying 50% more money for a 15% speed improvement. Your choice...

3) if you want portability and battery life at low cost, get a dell w/ centrino. w/ two batteries running at same time, u can get 5-6 hrs for $1500 max. although i'm a big fan of toshiba, their batteries stink! however, i don't carry around my laptop so it doesn't matter.

4) Unless you've been using computers for a long time and know what you want, I can't find any justification for spending more than $1500 on a laptop. i.e. if u're clueless of what u need, if u've never played a graphics-intenstive game before, or if u don't know what Level 2 cache is for, or what the specs of each processor is, then u definitely don't need a fancy computer.

5) if u already own a desktop/laptop but keep complaining how sluggish it is and that it's time to buy a new computer, have u considered formatting the hd and reinstalling windows? that's gonna speed up things A LOT!

Just my 2 cents....

 

[gogiants]

hello senor yogi bear,
your pm box was full but i just wanted to thank you for all your advice, it is very helpful.

 

[Garibaldo]

Originally posted by wazupshah
The "iBook" (not iMac) is an Amazing computer. When I finally decided to buy it a couple years back, I was still uncertain as to whether I was making a smart decision. I mean, 95% of the computer using world doesn't use apple computers. But there was nothing else like it for Video Editing (a huge hobby of mine) so I finally bit the bullet and bought the pretty white notebook.

I actually find that the PC has a lot more available for video editing. Go to www.vcdhelp.com or www.doom9.orgto get an idea of what you can do with a little practice on the PC. It's incredibly how many free programs there are to do this sort of stuff.

 

[Classof07]

I'm sure the logistics probably won't work out but I just wanted to say that many companies give out discounts for volume orders. If there are a large number of SDNers who are in the market for a new computer and can agree on a company, it might be worth contacting Toshiba or IBM or Dell or wherever and asking them for a group discount.
My pipe dream of the day.

 

[Yogi Bear]

Originally posted by gogiants
hello senor yogi bear,
your pm box was full but i just wanted to thank you for all your advice, it is very helpful.

hey, no problem! whoops! didn't know my pm box was closed. i'd forgotten pw to that hotmail account so it was deactivated and thus i didn't receive any warnings. thanks.

 

[gramcracker]

I've used PCs all my life, and just got one of the new iMacs at work, and I'm just not that impressed. Sure, it rarely crashes, and sure, it's user-friendly, but WindowsXP never crashes either, and I don't think Windows is that hard to learn (I know, I'm biased).

About the same time, my roommate got a new Dell for 600 bucks. It's twice as fast as my Mac at work. The Mac's pretty, and if all you're going to be doing is web surfing, Word processing, and maybe a presentation or Excel sheet, the Mac will suit you fine.

But if you want more power/speed (as well as a lower price tag), go for a PC.

 

[Yogi Bear]

Back to the P4/Celeron Debate.... 😀

if anyone deciding between either a celeron or a P4, check out http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1622&p=5

In the Office Productivity Index, which measures what most home/office users and students do w/ their computer (i.e. email, word, etc.), a 1.7 ghz P4 scores 124 while a 1.7 ghz Celeron scores 110. That's a 13% performance difference between the two processors. For encoding mp3's, a 170mb wav file (~15 minute song) would take a P4 2.45 minutes while a cleron 2.55 minutes--a 4% difference. Those are the only two areas where I'd find most med students would be interested in.

If you're into games, rendering a/v stuff, etc., then read the rest of the article and u'll find that gaming/rendering is where the celerons begin to fall noticeably behind the P4.

 

[X]

Today saw the sleek sharp notebooks, looked real nice. Very light. Anyone have one of these, if so how is it?

check out this one tell me what you guys think:
http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.j...toid=-8026&qp=0&bookmark=bookmark_0&oid=63763


X

 

[canadagirl]

I've also been wondering about what computer setup to get for next year.

Nobody has mentioned getting a tablet pc - the kind where you can swivel the screen around, and use it like a notepad, so that you can both write on the screen and type on the screen depending on what you want to do. This seems very useful for taking notes in class, as somebody mentioned the problem earlier that you usually have to draw diagrams etc so typing isn't good enough. Anybody else thought about this? I'm going to wait until the next-generation Centrino products come out before making a choice, though.

Just to weigh in on the Centrino discussion, I personally wouldn't buy any laptop with anything other than a Pentium-M chip right now. They are WAY faster than PIII-m and P4-M chips. You can't compare clock speed, because the P-M's get much more done per cycle. It's not just the cache, they also do better branch-prediction and stuff so that more of the chip is actually working at one time. And battery life, to me, is a BIG deal.

Right now, I've got an ultraportable 3-lbs, 12.1" screen notebook. It rocks. I can throw it in my backpack and take it into class, and never notice that it's there. It's way lighter than a textbook. I need to replace it just 'cause it's about four years old and gonna die on me soon, but after experiencing an ultraportable, trust me, you'd never want to buy one of those 8lbs monsters.... Even just for grabbing the notebook and doing your work sitting on a comfy couch - you don't want to be lugging your monster Dell away from your desk very often.

 

[X]

canadagirl,

what kind of computer is the one you have - company?

X

 

[Yogi Bear]

Originally posted by canadagirl
I've also been wondering about what computer setup to get for next year.

Nobody has mentioned getting a tablet pc - the kind where you can swivel the screen around, and use it like a notepad, so that you can both write on the screen and type on the screen depending on what you want to do. This seems very useful for taking notes in class, as somebody mentioned the problem earlier that you usually have to draw diagrams etc so typing isn't good enough. Anybody else thought about this? I'm going to wait until the next-generation Centrino products come out before making a choice, though.

Just to weigh in on the Centrino discussion, I personally wouldn't buy any laptop with anything other than a Pentium-M chip right now. They are WAY faster than PIII-m and P4-M chips. You can't compare clock speed, because the P-M's get much more done per cycle. It's not just the cache, they also do better branch-prediction and stuff so that more of the chip is actually working at one time. And battery life, to me, is a BIG deal.

Right now, I've got an ultraportable 3-lbs, 12.1" screen notebook. It rocks. I can throw it in my backpack and take it into class, and never notice that it's there. It's way lighter than a textbook. I need to replace it just 'cause it's about four years old and gonna die on me soon, but after experiencing an ultraportable, trust me, you'd never want to buy one of those 8lbs monsters.... Even just for grabbing the notebook and doing your work sitting on a comfy couch - you don't want to be lugging your monster Dell away from your desk very often.

actually, it's like comparing apples and oranges when comparing the centrinos and the P4. at the same mhz, centrinos are faster. however, few if any laptops these days come w/ 1.6 or 1.3 ghz P4's/P4M. So, a fair comparison would be comparing a P4/P4M 2.4 GhZ w/ a centrino at 1.6 Ghz (top of the line of each series). If that's the case, centrinos is only marginally faster under general usage, not WAY faster. According to anandetch, under General Performance Usage, a 1.6 ghz centrino is 6% faster than a P4 at 2.4 ghz. (that's like documents, spreadsheet, email, etc.). however, when it comes to games, a P4 is anywhere between 10-40% faster than a centrino. So, if we incorporate both general usage and gaming, performance wise, the P4 would be euqual to or slightly better than the centrino.

Using celerons as a base on GhZ alone, at the same GhZ,

Celerons = 1x
P4 = 1.15 x
Centrino = 1.7x

However, given actual GhZ of current laptop stocks, it's fair to say that, on avarage, these are the values for the processors:

Celerons: 1.8 GhZ (~1.5 GhZ P4)
P4: 2.2 GhZ
Centrino: 1.4 GhZ ( ~ 2.1 GhZ P4)

So really, other than battery life, there's no difference between current P4's and centrinos. On the other hand, based on current configurations of processors, centrinos are 40%, not 70%, faster than Celerons.

 

[canadagirl]

Originally posted by X
canadagirl,

what kind of computer is the one you have - company?

X

I've got an older vaio 505-series. The ones Sony sells now under the 505 name are significantly larger. Bought direct from Sony a few years ago.

 

[canadagirl]

Originally posted by Yogi Bear
So really, other than battery life, there's no difference between current P4's and centrinos. On the other hand, based on current configurations of processors, centrinos are 40%, not 70%, faster than Celerons. [/B]

Okay, we're talking about different things here, I think. If you're looking to buy a large new laptop, desktop-replacement style, then your comparison pretty much makes sense. And if you're buying one of those monsters then, anyways, you don't care much about battery life 'cause you're not moving them around much anyways.

But, if you look at ultraportable or even the smaller thin-and-lights (as I am, and presumably at least some others reading this thread are) the difference is much more marked. Those laptops never came in P4-M versions anyways, because that chip runs too hot for them. The really small machines are using the PIII-M ultra low voltage chips at 866Mhz to 1Ghz. The thin-and-light machines are using PIII-M's at 1.2 or 1.4Ghz.

Centrino means laptops with the same form factor, but with the 1 Ghz PIII-M's replaced by 1Ghz P-M's (approx). This is a significant performance improvement, even without the bonus of extra battery life.

I agree with you, then. The price increase of a Centrino probably isn't worth it as compard to available P4-M machines. But as compared to the currently available small machines still running the slower PIII-M chips? Definitely worth waiting, imho.

[Compare the Tohsiba Portege r100 to 4010, for example]

 

[Yogi Bear]

Originally posted by canadagirl
Okay, we're talking about different things here, I think. If you're looking to buy a large new laptop, desktop-replacement style, then your comparison pretty much makes sense. And if you're buying one of those monsters then, anyways, you don't care much about battery life 'cause you're not moving them around much anyways.

But, if you look at ultraportable or even the smaller thin-and-lights (as I am, and presumably at least some others reading this thread are) the difference is much more marked. Those laptops never came in P4-M versions anyways, because that chip runs too hot for them. The really small machines are using the PIII-M ultra low voltage chips at 866Mhz to 1Ghz. The thin-and-light machines are using PIII-M's at 1.2 or 1.4Ghz.

Centrino means laptops with the same form factor, but with the 1 Ghz PIII-M's replaced by 1Ghz P-M's (approx). This is a significant performance improvement, even without the bonus of extra battery life.

I agree with you, then. The price increase of a Centrino probably isn't worth it as compard to available P4-M machines. But as compared to the currently available small machines still running the slower PIII-M chips? Definitely worth waiting, imho.

[Compare the Tohsiba Portege r100 to 4010, for example]

yeah, i'd agree that if its ultra-portability, centrinos are the way to go.

 

[Yogi Bear]

for those who plan on getting dell's 600m, i just read some user comments a few minutes ago how even though they love the laptops, they've encountered the following problems:

-The computer sometimes fails to detect CD
-inadequent cooling of system: 1) keyboard feels warm 2) harddrive gets warm/hot
-the hard drive makes funny noises at times.

 

[canadagirl]

Originally posted by Yogi Bear
for those who plan on getting dell's 600m, i just read some user comments a few minutes ago how even though they love the laptops, they've encountered the following problems:

-The computer sometimes fails to detect CD
-inadequent cooling of system: 1) keyboard feels warm 2) harddrive gets warm/hot
-the hard drive makes funny noises at times.

Personally, I'm not going to get it 'cause I want something smaller. I just want to comment that I have never heard of a thin-and-light or smaller laptop that didn't get HOT. On cold days, the heat coming from the keyboard of mine is nice, but on hot days, the whole concept of LAPtop doesn't work too well.... 😉

Failing to detect the CD is bad. I wonder if it's a problem with these being the first generation of that machine? I dunno. We have a lab of Dells at school and pretty much none of the CD drives work.... Some of them won't even shut.

If you're thinking of the 600m you should also check out the D600 (latitude series, intended for businesses). It's almost the same machine, but maybe "business-quality" is better than "home-quality"? Not sure.

 

[Yogi Bear]

yeah...i'm not really sure of the details. it was just when i was glancing through various pages so i don't remember the exact descriptions of what went on. i think it was from dell home since people often get it there to save taxes (which can be as high as $100 at times).

speaking of hot laptops, i remember reading about some guy where sustained injuries to his private while using his laptop too long. poor guy.... shows u how laptops shouldn't always be on your lap....hehe

 

[Yogi Bear]

watch out for dell SDNers.....

they're actually making house calls to fix the defective mobo's...i.e. changing the motherboards at a person's house! pretty slick service.

==========================

Dell: House calls over bad motherboards


By John G. Spooner
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
May 2, 2003, 1:12 PM PT


Dell Computer has launched a service campaign to replace motherboards in nearly 20,000 Inspiron notebooks.
The Round Rock, Texas, company will replace the flawed motherboards inside nearly 20,000 Inspiron 2650 laptop models manufactured between the middle of November and the middle of December 2002, a company representative said Friday.

http://news.com.com/2100-1044_3-999555.html?tag=fd_top

 

[birdie]

bump. I gotta read through this.

 

[Samoa]

So what do all you computer experts think of the tablet pc? Nobody ever answered that part of canadagirl's question. Conceptually, it looks like it'd be perfect for taking notes in class. I've read that there are/were some issues with handwriting recognition initially, and I wonder if that's gotten any better. Plus I also like the convertible option, so it can be a laptop when I need it.

The only problem is, I hate buying a new techie thing so early. I usually like to wait until the major bugs are worked out, and I just don't know where the tablet pc is on that timeline.

 

[canadagirl]

I suspect the reaosn that people haven't answered my question is because nobody here has one yet?? They are certainly new and not yet mainstream.

Anyways, my reading seems to say that people who have tablet pc's like them a lot. I'm nearly ready to buy one over an ultraportable (probably the Toshiba r100 or the Dell x300 when it comes out, or maybe even the Fujitsu S6000 series).

BUT battery life is still quite poor in Tablet PC's. This is mostly because they don't have the option of adding a second battery or high-capacity battery. The question is whether the new batch of Pent-M machines coming out now will have an increase in battery life.

The Toshiba 3500 seems to be, by far, the best option if you want a full-featured laptop that happens to be a Tablet as well. No P-M version of it out yet, and weak battery life. If they solved those two problems, then I'd have one right now. 🙂

The other option (if you want a 12" screen) is the Motion tablet. It's not convertible, but you can buy a clamshell case for it for $100 or so which basically makes it into a regular laptop. And if you just want the computer with you, you can carry around the screen separately. It's worth a look, anyways.

 

[Samoa]

I've seen a couple of raves about the Panasonic Toughbook tablet pc. So I checked it out, and it looks like the battery life is something like 6 hours. Which makes it very practical. My plan is to compare that with the Toshiba and see which one I like better. Toshiba's battery life is way down there with the others, though.

 

[Yogi Bear]

Originally posted by Samoa
So what do all you computer experts think of the tablet pc? Nobody ever answered that part of canadagirl's question. Conceptually, it looks like it'd be perfect for taking notes in class. I've read that there are/were some issues with handwriting recognition initially, and I wonder if that's gotten any better. Plus I also like the convertible option, so it can be a laptop when I need it.

The only problem is, I hate buying a new techie thing so early. I usually like to wait until the major bugs are worked out, and I just don't know where the tablet pc is on that timeline.

if u wanna test handwriting recognition, it's avail on office xp. i.e. u could use ur mouse to make out some words and it'll recoginize cursive and printing.

 

[Samoa]

Very nice. One worry gone. 🙂 Thanks!

 

[canadagirl]

Is the handwriting recognition really the same? I thought that tabletpc's had some handwriting recog. that was native to the OS rather than to Office, but I'm not sure about it.

I hadn't seen the toughbook. For some reason it doesn't tend to make the main lists that get reviewed by cnet, pcworld, etc? Anyways, the big drawback that I see to the toughbook is the 10.4" screen. That's really tiny ... my feeling is that for a primary machine, at least, anything less than 12.1" is too small. But maybe hooked up to a regular monitor at home it would be okay? I'm not sure.

Where have you seen 6 hours battery life? The website says "up to 4-6", which probably means 3-ish....? Unless the battery life really is that good, the Acer is probably a better bet: same screen size, but over a pound lighter.

On the other hand, the Acer probably won't keep going if you throw it onto concrete or something 🙂

 

[denali]

I'm not convinced the Tablet PC's have made a big enough improvement in HW recognition in terms of speed and accuracy to make them a good fit for me. Of course my handwriting is atrocious.

I'm really interested in the Dell Latitude D series right now-Pentium-M processors, all-metal case, wide UXGA screen... Mmmmmmmm

mdf

 

[CRAZYTERP]

Originally posted by denali
I'm not convinced the Tablet PC's have made a big enough improvement in HW recognition in terms of speed and accuracy to make them a good fit for me. Of course my handwriting is atrocious.

I'm really interested in the Dell Latitude D series right now-Pentium-M processors, all-metal case, wide UXGA screen... Mmmmmmmm

mdf

I just ordered the Latitude D600 centrino last week. It was definitely more expensive than the p4's but from what I have gathered I think it will be well worht it and it really fits my needs of being a portable labtop. I had originally wanted to get the Inspiron 600M but after reeading reviews on CNET and PC MAG I chose to go with the D600 which was actually about 3-400 dollars cheaper.

My specs are 1.6 Ghz, 60GB, 512 Ram, 14.1 SXGA monitor, DVD, 3yr onsite warranty etc. It won't arrive for another week but I will let you all know what I think. The sticker price was about 2,200 but Dell has a bunch of stackable coupons which brought it down to 1900 before tax.

-Amit

 

[denali]

CRAZYTERP,

Did you swing for the wireless upgrade (801.11b & g)?

With the non-Centrino wireless, I'm thinking it may be the sweetest machine on the market right now...

mdf

 

[CRAZYTERP]

Actuay i did go for the dell true mobile 1300 801.11b & g. U of Miami is a b school, but I figure the wireless card allows for 54g transfer vs the intel one which is something like 16 I believe...

 

[SunnyS81]

I haven't started medical school yet, but I have it hard to believe that a person would carry around a laptop during rotations or in residency. Good for presentations. True. I'm opting for a Palm or a PocketPC if I need some electronic device though when I think I need one.

In terms of buying a computer here is my advice:

1) If you really value the portability, then buy a laptop. If you don't think you will need a portable computer on a regular basis, then get a desktop. They are cheaper, last longer (no defective pixels) and are easier to fix if something goes wrong. (Good luck fixing a laptop yourself).

2) If you buy a laptop, I suggest an apple. I've become a big fan after seeing some of my friends. They are really stable, portable, and attractive.

3) If you just want to free up your desk space, consider buying a desktop (or using your current one) and buying an LCD screen. This is what I'm doing (with my old computer).

4) In terms of processors, Celerons used to be based on Pentium II's. They were designed for home use and use less power (good for laptops). If you care about real specifics, there are some large differences between how it and a Pentium III or IV use cache, but I won't venture there for the sake of time.

5) When buying processors, consider how much speed you REALLY need. There are a few situations that I've needed a lot of speed (HUGE spreadsheets and computer simulations), but otherwise speed is for gamers or hardcore network users.

6) Consider how much money you want to spend. If you spend more than $800 on a desktop you're a chump. One person mentioned he can build computers for cheaper than dell, but honestly, Dell has gotten prices so low that it is hard to beat their prices. I'm not familiar with laptop prices, but a comparable laptop will be 2x a desktop's price.

In my mind, computers are one of the worst investments (up there with new cars). What you buy today is worthless is less than a year. It is all about determining what your needs are.

 

[gramcracker]

I'm currently trying to decide which I want to go. I'm thinking of upgrading my desktop, and once I'm in school, if I really want to get/need a laptop, I can get one over winter or spring break or something.

Laptops I'm looking at (Pentium M's):
Compaq N620c and IBM T or R series.

 

[mellotron]

Originally posted by xaelia
I'm personally a MacOS X guy, so I'll be getting the 15" Powerbook when it's refreshed in a couple months.

Hey Xaelia, I assume you got that email from OSU the other day - kind of a last minute mandate requiring each student to have a Windows OS laptop, etc.? How's this gonna affect your shopping choice? At least they were nice enough to allow us to borrow even more money to cover it 😉

BTW, anyone else troubled by the fact that OSU has made this effort so late in the cycle? Thrown together, you think? Occurs to me that this could have been a good selling point for the school. (it's one of the things that impressed me at Case).

 

[Samoa]

canadagirl, I forgot what site I looked at to find info on the Toughbook. It was not the mfg site, though. I also read a review in one of those airline in-flight magazines, which was a total rave. Didn't catch on to the screen size issue, though, so I'll have to look at it again.

I've been playing with XP's hw recognition program for the last couple of days, and it seems to do a pretty good job of recognizing my writing (both printing and cursive). But it seems to me that if you can save the writing as is, then it doesn't really matter whether the program can recognize it or not, as long as YOU can. 🙂

It seems obvious to me that tablet pc's are going to be the way to go in the future. They're just too practical for taking notes to fall by the wayside, especially if they come with full office functionality. I just don't think they're quite sophisticated (or cheap) enough for mass appeal right now. And I don't want to buy one that's going to be a dinosaur before I even get on the wards.

Ugh! Too many decisions to make with too little info in too short a time. 🙁

 

[Slinkie]

I have a question... Does anyone have much experience with HP laptops? I saw the other day a nice one online that seemed affordable, but then I talked to a friend of mine who worked in tech support for 3 years and she says that HPs are always breaking and are a general pain. I then talked to a friend of mine in med school, who says she loves her HP laptop. I have had an HP desktop for the past 4 years, and though it is slowly dying now, I was for the most part happy with it... So, any thoughts?
Thanks....

 

[kimm70]

You may have already addressed this issue (as I haven't read the entire thread, I am not sure), but does anyone know anything about tablet pcs? I received a letter from Temple earlier this week that suggested the best option was a tablet pc, followed by a laptop, with a desktop being the least favorable option. I don't know anything about a tablet pc, except they cost around $2200-2500. Any thoughts?

 

[canadagirl]

Yeah, my thought about tablet pc's is to read the thread - your question has been asked and answered!

 

[Hippocrates2007]

for all you techies out there, i've been reading this post and it seems that the major complain against the centrino is because of the slower 802.11b wireless internet. dell and compaq are offering an option of either upgrading to a/g or just getting modem/+10/100 LAN. so you could get a card later on with a/g.
plus i've heard that the pentium-m will be replacing pentium4 on laptops, the pentium-m also has a new chipset and stuff.
so would you guys still recommend the centrino if you get it without the 802.11b?
i think it's better because a 1.5ghz pentium-m is as fast and probably a better design and system than a 2.4ghz pentium4.
any ideas?

 

[gramcracker]

I'm definitely looking at Centrino-only. You're right, the 1.5/1.6 Ghz Centrinos perform about as well on most applications (not games) as a desktop 2.4 Ghz P4.

For laptops, they run longer, run cooler, and perform great. Yes, the 'b' spec only is a downside, but like others have said, you can either get a better wi-fi card now internally, or get one later. And while the 'g' spec is the new industry standard, if you're just using it to surf the net, 'b' should do you just fine. 'G' is 2-3x faster than 'b', but 'g' doesn't have as long of a distance. And if you're surfing the net, you're not going to be able to use g's superfast speeds, anyway. Net traffic will slow you down.

 

[Yogi Bear]

i bought an inspirn 1100 laptop from dell home for ~$634 after all rebates/coupons ($350 mail in rebate, $100 dell home coupon, $25 dell home coupon, $3% fatcash rebate, 1% discover cash back bonus).

it's a 2.2 ghz celeron, 256 mb ram, 30 gb ultra ata hd, cd-rw/dvd combo drive, and 15" xga screen.