Anyone choose the more expensive option and don't regret it?

[SwimCycleRun]

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I know it has been discussed at length and the general concensus is to take the cheapest option no matter what. I'm curious, however, if anyone has not done this and been happy with said decision? I would be particularly interested to hear from recent graduates. Thanks!

 

[pcram93]

I know it has been discussed at length and the general concensus is to take the cheapest option no matter what. I'm curious, however, if anyone has not done this and been happy with said decision? I would be particularly interested to hear from recent graduates. Thanks!

I'm glad you made this thread because I have been fortunate enough to be accepted to a school I love as an OOS and am also interviewing at my IS tomorrow. I'll be honest, I am not fond of my IS and had a very unwelcoming experience when I interviewed there last year.

I would of course be grateful to be accepted, but am curious to see if anyone has experience going OOS when the IS option was available.
@SwimCycleRun thanks again for making this thread!

 

[vethopeful93]

I was rejected by my IS school 2 years ago when I applied, but got into 5 OOS schools. Since my choices were all going to be more expensive than my IS, I picked the school I liked the best, which also happened to be one of the most expensive. I've been here for 2 years, absolutely love my school and my whole vet school experience, and have zero regrets about my decision. I haven't graduated, so I'm not paying anything off yet.

There's a lot of talk on here about picking the cheapest school no matter what. Rightly so, because the debt is massive. But I think there are many factors to consider (presence of undergrad debt, projected salary of your desired future specialty/field), and for me, mental health was one of them. I went with my gut and picked the place I knew I would be the happiest for the next 4 years. Could I have been just as happy somewhere cheaper? Maybe. But I think your mental health needs to be a big consideration in your decision. Vet school really sucks sometimes, and it's nice to be in a place where you want to be while it sucks, as opposed to someplace you don't want to be. I grew up in a city, so I knew I would not thrive being somewhere extremely rural for vet school for 4 years. I'm going to be in debt for longer because of my decision, but I'm ok with that. The way I thought of it was I'm already going to be in debt anyway, so I might as well spend some extra money to spend this time in a place that I absolutely love. This is definitely not the way a lot of people see it, and the circumstances are different for every person, but I wanted to share my experience since it seems to have helped some people I've talked to.

 

[Florida_Future_DVM]

There are multiple people in my class who were accepted at their IS and chose to pay OOS to attend here. From what I understand, many of them did not find their IS a good fit for them, and they wanted to go to a school they saw themselves succeeding at. Obviously financials are a BIG deal, but some people chose OOS schools for personal preferences.

 

[labrat9]

I know it has been discussed at length and the general concensus is to take the cheapest option no matter what. I'm curious, however, if anyone has not done this and been happy with said decision? I would be particularly interested to hear from recent graduates. Thanks!

I think talking to fresh grads/current students/prospective students for this years cycle with options won't give you an accurate depiction, as they may be trying to reaffirm their choice, and have not experienced added interest/paying back their loans quite yet. If you spoke to one student due to start in the fall of this year about their choice to attend the school that costs 100k+ more today vs. 10 years down the line, I’m sure you would get a completely different answer from the same individual.

From what I have read, a majority of the posts that tout going to the cheaper school come from established veterinarians who have been out of school for a while. There is something to be said about listening to their wisdom, fresh graduates (for the most part-excluding some non trads) are not looking to purchase a house or have children immediately after vet school, things that can be seriously inhibited when you are a quarter million+ in the hole and having a huge portion of your paycheck go towards loan repayments. its hard to justify being “happy” (for reasons such as location, weather, or school’s “~vibe~” ) for four years over 100k, when most AVMA schools offer relatively equal opportunity for experiences. four years go by quickly, and for possibly 3 of those years, you may only be at the school for 3/4 of a year while you have summers off! Go where you get in, but if you are lucky enough to get multiple options, still take the cheapest you can.

 

[WildZoo]

Technically I "chose" the more expensive option in that the school I got into was the most expensive one I applied to. I don't regret deciding to go. But we'll see how I feel down the road 😉 There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that make it cheaper for me than your typical OOS student. And I love my school. I still don't recommend people come here over their IS...ever. There's a reason we give the advice we do 🙂

 

[pp9]

Technically I "chose" the more expensive option in that the school I got into was the most expensive one I applied to. I don't regret deciding to go. But we'll see how I feel down the road 😉 There are a lot of extenuating circumstances that make it cheaper for me than your typical OOS student. And I love my school. I still don't recommend people come here over their IS...ever. There's a reason we give the advice we do 🙂

Same, I didn't get accepted to my IS. Instead of waiting another year to try again, I decided to go OOS. I don't regret it either, but I'm not exaggerating when I say that I get chest-tightening anxiety over my debt fairly frequently. I'm sure it will only increase as graduation looms. I will owe more than the cost of my fiance's house, and my debt will affect us probably for the majority (if not all) of our life together.

Unless you have no IS, or you get rejected from your IS (in my case, twice), it is really hard for me to understand why someone would choose OOS tuition when they have an IS option. The idea of going to a specific school in hopes of knowing a certain member of the faculty, for exotics experience, etc. just isn't worth it.

 

[LyraGardenia]

Unless you have no IS, or you get rejected from your IS (in my case, twice), it is really hard for me to understand why someone would choose OOS tuition when they have an IS option. The idea of going to a specific school in hopes of knowing a certain member of the faculty, for exotics experience, etc. just isn't worth it.

Agreed. I also took the expensive OOS option after getting rejected from my IS three times in my case. I almost didn't go through with my OOS applications after my IS disqualified me for circumstances outside my control , but I'm glad I went for it and I'm glad I'm here. But ask me again in about three years when I'm making payments on about $300k in loans, because it's pretty terrifying.

If you're deciding between multiple OOS options that are all within say $10k of each other, then I can maybe see going for a more expensive one that has a better location, curriculum style, specialities, etc. But going OOS over IS for reasons like that is pretty foolish (unless your IS is extremely expensive, or you can switch to IS tuition after first year or something). I also have multiple classmates who either turned down a spot at or flat out didn't apply to their IS for whatever reason, and they seem happy now, but I just don't get it.

 

[MixedAnimals77]

Remember also that you go to vet school to learn to be a generalist for the most part and then you gain experience and do things like specialize after graduating. What is important is when you are choosing schools is to remember that you will get the education you want if you apply yourself and make those opportunities for yourself.

Spoiler: Soap box moment

I'm kind of an oddity myself...many people on here know and I complain about it just about every chance I get. I was accepted to all the schools I applied to 3 OSS and my IS. My IS is CO which is one of the most expensive schools for IS tuition. I was accepted to Iowa (was my last resort school) Mizzou and Washington. I denied my IS and am going OSS to WA(*Pullman-can't get IS if at Logan campus) the difference though is that Mizzou and WA both allow you to switch residency after 1 year of OSS tuition. I will be saving about 30k in tuition over my IS and about 30k in housing expense for the total program length for a grand savings of 60k plus interest! Mizzou I was going to save quite a chunk of change also. If I was an IS at say NC state and got in I would never think about denying that to go OSS at all. I agree if OSS is your only option especially after trying your IS or there's some whacky circiumstance otherwise go where it's cheap. Overall, none of these accredited AVMA schools is really worth more than the other because in the end we're all graduating with the same degree with the same rights to practice.

 

[kaydubs]

I didn’t want to go to my IS (UPenn) primarily cause I didn’t want to live in Philly (and the whole “if you know an alum, we’ll let you in” ruffles me the wrong way. I come from a fam where I’m the first generation to go to college & profess school) so went to OOS which was prolly similar priced but how much would I have saved by switching to Geico?

Not enough as far as I’m concerned....

Although, I must add, a professor who was an elitist expletive still told me I didn’t deserve to be at Tufts cause I went to a liberal arts school and my parents graduated high school and were hard workers. He’s retired now, bless that expletive’s lack of soul.

 

[SkiOtter]

I didn’t want to go to my IS (UPenn) primarily cause I didn’t want to live in Philly (and the whole “if you know an alum, we’ll let you in” ruffles me the wrong way. I come from a fam where I’m the first generation to go to college & profess school) so went to OOS which was prolly similar priced but how much would I have saved by switching to Geico?

Not enough as far as I’m concerned....

Although, I must add, a professor who was an elitist expletive still told me I didn’t deserve to be at Tufts cause I went to a liberal arts school and my parents graduated high school and were hard workers. He’s retired now, bless that expletive’s lack of soul.

You deserved to be there because u r a smart cookie and he can go **** himself 😀

 

[Vombatidae]

I didn’t want to go to my IS (UPenn) primarily cause I didn’t want to live in Philly (and the whole “if you know an alum, we’ll let you in” ruffles me the wrong way. I come from a fam where I’m the first generation to go to college & profess school) so went to OOS which was prolly similar priced but how much would I have saved by switching to Geico?

Not enough as far as I’m concerned....

Although, I must add, a professor who was an elitist expletive still told me I didn’t deserve to be at Tufts cause I went to a liberal arts school and my parents graduated high school and were hard workers. He’s retired now, bless that expletive’s lack of soul.

Lol. Nah, I left Geico. USAA for the win. 😉

 

[DVMDream]

I think talking to fresh grads/current students/prospective students for this years cycle with options won't give you an accurate depiction, as they may be trying to reaffirm their choice, and have not experienced added interest/paying back their loans quite yet. If you spoke to one student due to start in the fall of this year about their choice to attend the school that costs 100k+ more today vs. 10 years down the line, I’m sure you would get a completely different answer from the same individual.

From what I have read, a majority of the posts that tout going to the cheaper school come from established veterinarians who have been out of school for a while. There is something to be said about listening to their wisdom, fresh graduates (for the most part-excluding some non trads) are not looking to purchase a house or have children immediately after vet school, things that can be seriously inhibited when you are a quarter million+ in the hole and having a huge portion of your paycheck go towards loan repayments. its hard to justify being “happy” (for reasons such as location, weather, or school’s “~vibe~” ) for four years over 100k, when most AVMA schools offer relatively equal opportunity for experiences. four years go by quickly, and for possibly 3 of those years, you may only be at the school for 3/4 of a year while you have summers off! Go where you get in, but if you are lucky enough to get multiple options, still take the cheapest you can.

I am a fresh graduate. I was able to buy a house because I heavily researched what I needed to know/do to be sure that I could get a home loan with my giant student debt. However, I've hit the max of what I can afford, there's no having kids, vacations, etc. That's with loans in REPAYE.. so I'm not even paying off the interest.

I agree with your above input though. Listening to the posts above of current and prospective students isn't going to give the original poster the perspective he/she needs.

It is so much different hearing "$300k" and looking down the barrel at it as you see that 300k--> 315k--->340k----> 360k.... etc. Because you can't pay enough to even touch the interest so your balance rises despite dumping a few hundred dollars per month to the loans.

 

[staff_wielder]

I was accepted to all the schools I applied to 3 OSS and my IS.

Dude. Look at you go!
#LikeaBoss

 

[MixedAnimals77]

Dude. Look at you go!
#LikeaBoss

But like...you did awesome too!

 

[hygebeorht]

I think there are many factors to consider (presence of undergrad debt, projected salary of your desired future specialty/field)...

Keep in mind that just because you have a desired specialty, doesn't mean that specialty will desire you. Match rates for several of the more lucrative/desirable specialties are dismal and have only been going down over time. No guarantees.

I didn’t want to go to my IS (UPenn) primarily cause I didn’t want to live in Philly (and the whole “if you know an alum, we’ll let you in” ruffles me the wrong way. I come from a fam where I’m the first generation to go to college & profess school) so went to OOS which was prolly similar priced but how much would I have saved by switching to Geico?

Not enough as far as I’m concerned....

Although, I must add, a professor who was an elitist expletive still told me I didn’t deserve to be at Tufts cause I went to a liberal arts school and my parents graduated high school and were hard workers. He’s retired now, bless that expletive’s lack of soul.

The whole east coast private school snobbery bull**** always leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Also worth mentioning (because so far in this thread people have been occasionally using OOS as shorthand for more expensive) - I went to an OOS school that was more affordable than my IS. Zero regrets.

I suspect most people who chose an expensive school over a cheap school don't have regrets so long as they didn't have to pay for it (no loans, parents paid, whatever).

I have enough debt as it is...I can't imagine having 3x as much to deal with. Insane. I can certainly think of fun things that I would like to do with a couple extra hundred thousand dollars. This isn't monopoly money we're talking about, it's real money with real consequences.

Also, I know a lot of people argue that they don't want to be unhappy for 4 years because they picked a school that they didn't like as much as their desired, expensive school. EVEN IF THAT IS TRUE, you're trading four years of unhappiness for potentially decades of unhappiness as your life goals are ruined by your finances.

The most illuminating post I've ever read here was by a surgeon (making money in a competitive specialty!) who was MISERABLE because she had hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt to service. I decided then and there I would pick my cheapest option, work during school, and seek every opportunity for scholarships.

OP, will you find someone who's out of school and happy they picked an expensive school despite having to service a ton of debt? Maybe. But I haven't met that person yet. Sorry.

 

[twelvetigers]

I know it has been discussed at length and the general concensus is to take the cheapest option no matter what. I'm curious, however, if anyone has not done this and been happy with said decision? I would be particularly interested to hear from recent graduates. Thanks!

OP, this is very hard to answer honestly because we don't have *that* many graduated veterinarians that are done with school (+/- internship and residency) and are out in practice diligently paying their loans. These are the people you'd need to ask, and you'd have to find one that had the choice between [cheaper or IS school] and [dream school that appealed to them] and chose the dream school. Then you could ask them this question, and they could look at their total debt, where they ended up, and then think if they wish they had chosen the less-debt school. Maybe they would see in hindsight that the less-debt school would have offered them nearly the same education at a fraction of the price. Or, maybe they loved the more-debt school so much that they think it was worth it. I dunno.

I picked the less debt school and came out with under $100k in loans. I absolutely CAN.NOT.IMAGINE. regretting that choice, even if going to Cornell or Davis or whatever would have meant learning how to treat unicorns or something. I have at least five more years paying my loans at my current rate (to the tune of about $1200/month) and I can't imagine doubling that, much less tripling it - which is probably closer to what many graduates come out with. Would I be able to pay over $2300/month to make a dent in it? Can I fathom paying loans for 15+ years? Would I want to be considering the debt forgiveness option, with all the doubts surrounding it, and the "I owe HOW MUCH in taxes?!?" at the end?

Nah. No. I'm SO GLAD I picked the cheaper option and had the chance to do so.

But I can't answer your question, because I didn't choose the more-debt school.

 

[Lupin21]

OP, this is very hard to answer honestly because we don't have *that* many graduated veterinarians that are done with school (+/- internship and residency) and are out in practice diligently paying their loans. These are the people you'd need to ask, and you'd have to find one that had the choice between [cheaper or IS school] and [dream school that appealed to them] and chose the dream school. Then you could ask them this question, and they could look at their total debt, where they ended up, and then think if they wish they had chosen the less-debt school. Maybe they would see in hindsight that the less-debt school would have offered them nearly the same education at a fraction of the price. Or, maybe they loved the more-debt school so much that they think it was worth it. I dunno.

I picked the less debt school and came out with under $100k in loans. I absolutely CAN.NOT.IMAGINE. regretting that choice, even if going to Cornell or Davis or whatever would have meant learning how to treat unicorns or something. I have at least five more years paying my loans at my current rate (to the tune of about $1200/month) and I can't imagine doubling that, much less tripling it - which is probably closer to what many graduates come out with. Would I be able to pay over $2300/month to make a dent in it? Can I fathom paying loans for 15+ years? Would I want to be considering the debt forgiveness option, with all the doubts surrounding it, and the "I owe HOW MUCH in taxes?!?" at the end?

Nah. No. I'm SO GLAD I picked the cheaper option and had the chance to do so.

But I can't answer your question, because I didn't choose the more-debt school.

Yep. I would have been IS for Davis, but by picking up and moving to OK and getting residency, I ensured my debt would be ~$60-70 thousand lower (maybe more since COL is high there). I probably would have been a better fit personality wise for Davis, but I get to live cheaply and the years have flown by in a blip anyway. I can bank that money to have a better chance at living happily sooner than later with the rest of my life. I also have zero issues with my education and the people are good peeps as well.

 

[twelvetigers]

...
Also, I know a lot of people argue that they don't want to be unhappy for 4 years because they picked a school that they didn't like as much as their desired, expensive school. EVEN IF THAT IS TRUE, you're trading four years of unhappiness for potentially decades of unhappiness as your life goals are ruined by your finances.

I snerked as I read this because I was like, "Lol. You're gonna be miserable to some extent no matter what school you pick." Like, maybe you HATE SNOW so you don't want to go to Michigan or Minnesota or UPenn or whatever. Okay. So you'll be miserable cramming for tests and all that stuff - you'll just be warm while you're doing it. Eheheh.

4 realz though, the debt has much more weight on the rest of your life, and the 4 years of vet school will scoot along either way. Misery and all.

 

[M&D]

The VIN foundation map tells me that as an Ohio resident, my cheapest option is still NCSU. Is that for real? I realize that must be because they let you switch to in-state tuition after the first year. Still, it that for real? Actually it says Ohio would be my 5th cheapest option.

 

[SkiOtter]

The VIN foundation map tells me that as an Ohio resident, my cheapest option is still NCSU. Is that for real? I realize that must be because they let you switch to in-state tuition after the first year. Still, it that for real? Actually it says Ohio would be my 5th cheapest option.

Do the math. Isn’t IS for OSU ~30k? And NCSU ~19k once you get IS residency?
So unless OOS at NCSU for that first year is as crazy as OOS at osu, NCSU is PROBABLY your cheaper option over 4 years IS at osu

 

[britzen]

Do the math. Isn’t IS for OSU ~30k? And NCSU ~19k once you get IS residency?
So unless OOS at NCSU for that first year is as crazy as OOS at osu, NCSU is PROBABLY your cheaper option over 4 years IS at osu

Seems about right... looked weird to me so I googled it real quick:

IS tuition Ohio state is about $31K years 1-3 and $46K year 4
OOS for NCSU is $46K for year 1, and $19K for years 1-3 assuming you get residency

Overall, NCSU would be like $30K cheaper because of how much cheaper their IS tuition is... Other schools I assume are cheaper than Ohio are WSU, Mizzou, and Texas... They're always on the low end because of residency switch ability and/or overall low tuition...

 

[variegata]

Yep. I would have been IS for Davis, but by picking up and moving to OK and getting residency, I ensured my debt would be ~$60-70 thousand lower (maybe more since COL is high there). I probably would have been a better fit personality wise for Davis, but I get to live cheaply and the years have flown by in a blip anyway. I can bank that money to have a better chance at living happily sooner than later with the rest of my life. I also have zero issues with my education and the people are good peeps as well.

My IS was also Davis. I chose to go OOS to Wisconsin both because I was ready for a change and because tuition was equivalent between IS Davis and OOS UW (this was before UW increased their OOS tuition to come equal with other schools). Cost of living was also probably lower in Wisconsin. I don't know that I would have made the same decision if UW's tuition was what it is today if I had an IS option.

 

[ChoopLoops]

Quick note on NCSU. When I went to the OOS welcome day last month, the student services people informed us that starting for this fall's entering class (c/o 2022), the way the state determines residency for tuition purposes is changing. Previously it was a person who reviewed applications and signed people off, but now it's going to be based on a computer algorithm. So while previously, like 98% of people were able to convert to IS, no one knows yet how the new system will affect how easy it will be to do that.

Which is really effing annoying because I know a lot of people applied there based on cost and now that's really up in the air 😕

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

Quick note on NCSU. When I went to the OOS welcome day last month, the student services people informed us that starting for this fall's entering class (c/o 2022), the way the state determines residency for tuition purposes is changing. Previously it was a person who reviewed applications and signed people off, but now it's going to be based on a computer algorithm. So while previously, like 98% of people were able to convert to IS, no one knows yet how the new system will affect how easy it will be to do that.

Which is really effing annoying because I know a lot of people applied there based on cost and now that's really up in the air 😕

Woaaaaah what now?!

 

[ChoopLoops]

Woaaaaah what now?!

I know 😡
I'm banking on the idea that this was just rooted in wanting less work to do and not wanting morepeople paying OOS tuition. But who knows!

 

[britzen]

I know 😡
I'm banking on the idea that this was just rooted in wanting less work to do and not wanting morepeople paying OOS tuition. But who knows!

It came down as a mandate from the state legislature... Too much variability between the different schools, it sounds like, for undergrad and grad programs. The gist of it seems to be that the state is trying to standardize things so that a residency decision would be the same no matter what state-funded college a student attends.

 

[that redhead]

I was accepted to one school with stupid high OOS tuition; instead of waiting and reapplying in-state, I went with my acceptance. I’m glad I did in that I’m a vet now and who knows if I would have been accepted elsewhere. I’m 3yrs out as of May and I’m about half way through paying off my debt one paycheck at a time.

I think what it comes down to is that you don’t know what it’s like to pay down huge numbers in debt. We could tell you all about it but if you aren’t able to grasp what it feels like to live in repayment I don’t see how that’s going to be able to sway your decision. I’d encourage you to consider if you fail out or decide the profession isn’t for you; if you don’t get your desired specialty; of you don’t get your desired job; if you become injured or disabled while working; if your pet gets an expensive illness or injury; where you will live; if you want kids or a new car or to buy a house...etc, etc.

 

[Coffee<3Cats<3&Ratties<3]

I think this whole post really depends on the price difference between the schools. For example, my in state school does not offer a low cost in state option, so the OOS schools I was accepted to were maybe +/- 5000 a year, which in the grand scheme of things is not a huge amount. However, staying in state allows me to share an apartment with people I know, not have to pay for expensive flights home, be able to see my parents (my mom was recently in the critical care unit for 2 months and is continuing to face serious health issues and I cant imagine being stuck in another state and not being able to see her if she were to get sick again), and it allows my bf to settle in a career and not have to move states in 4 years. So it really makes sense for me. I think that this decision is really a personal choice. If the cost difference isnt that extreme, pick what works best for you. Obviously if theres going to be a 50- 100k differenve its probably better to choose the less expensive and safe yourself the stress later.

 

[missdarjeeling]

I snerked as I read this because I was like, "Lol. You're gonna be miserable to some extent no matter what school you pick."

Yup. Vet school kind of sucks no matter where you go.

I don't regret picking the more expensive school because I didn't really have much of a choice, in the end, despite having more than one school to choose from. My personal circumstances limited me geographically, and my spouse and I made the least terrible decision even though I'll have more debt in the end. If I could've waved a magic wand and gone back to being 22 and single with no family obligations, I would've picked the absolute cheapest option in a heartbeat. Unless there are extenuating circumstances - and I mean serious ones, not "ehh that town doesn't even have a good sushi joint" or "you get an extra 2 weeks of working with ferrets there!" - pick the cheapest option. The only exception I can think of is people who are fortunate enough to have someone else fund their education.

Current students may not regret it, but this is not Monopoly money we're talking about, and the truth is that reality hasn't sunken in yet because most of us aren't forced to look at that balance on even a monthly basis. Even with our mortgage, which is manageable with my spouse's salary and not actually all that bad, looking at the statement and seeing how comparatively little the numbers move makes me want to vomit. Checking my loan balance feels 10 times worse, and I'm not even done yet.

 

[VIN-Foundation]

The VIN foundation map tells me that as an Ohio resident, my cheapest option is still NCSU. Is that for real? I realize that must be because they let you switch to in-state tuition after the first year. Still, it that for real?

It is in fact for real 🙂 And that's why NCSU is the cheapest option for students from many states, even those with an in-state school.

Obviously if North Carolina changes their policies on residency classification then this comparison could change. One of the challenges with providing this information is we are trying to predict total cost for the next 4 years. We update the map regularly to reflect current data but predicting what will happen in the future is always tenuous. For example, most schools increase tuition on a fairly regular basis so we try to predict future tuition increases based on the history of past increases. We provide both figures for each school -- total cost based on current prices and total cost based on predicted increases.

William Thomas

 

[deleted676737]

I think what it comes down to is that you don’t know what it’s like to pay down huge numbers in debt. We could tell you all about it but if you aren’t able to grasp what it feels like to live in repayment I don’t see how that’s going to be able to sway your decision. I’d encourage you to consider if you fail out or decide the profession isn’t for you; if you don’t get your desired specialty; of you don’t get your desired job; if you become injured or disabled while working; if your pet gets an expensive illness or injury; where you will live; if you want kids or a new car or to buy a house...etc, etc.

This, this, SO much this.

I didn't think that I was going to be dismissed from vet school almost halfway through the program, but I was. And now I'm stuck with $107k in loans that I have to pay back with no current job lined up and no DVM. It is terrifying. Yes, it's a pretty rare occurrence and chances are that you will make it through school, graduate, and work as a veterinarian, but there is always the chance that something may happen or change in your life and those plans may be placed on hold or you leave altogether. Or your interests may change. Or you may decide that you hate the profession and choose to seek employment in an unrelated field. It happens.

While I do regret going to vet school in retrospect, especially now knowing that I wasn't going to finish, I do NOT regret picking my least expensive option. Especially because I had undergraduate debt. As much as I'm in the hole right now, I can't even begin to imagine how much worse off and completely financially screwed I'd be if I had chosen the OOS school that I was accepted to and also didn't finish; I'd have about double the debt, still no DVM, and still no idea how the hell to tackle repayment. As it is now, I think that I can pay off my debt eventually provided that I find a decently paying job but the very real start of repayment coming up makes my stomach curdle enough as it is.

Throwing in another vote for going to the cheapest option that you have.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I did it, and I don't necessarily regret it all that much, but at the same time my parents paid a significant chunk of my tuition, so I graduated with only roughly $150k.

I've been super motivated to pay it off fast to minimize the amount of interest I pay over my lifetime, so in 3.5 yrs I've paid off all but $30k. That meant for most of that time I was paying $3-4K per month on my loans. Had I made the smarter choice of going to a cheaper school, I'd be done paying off my school loans. But I can't complain. $30k is totally manageable. If I wanted to, I could empty out our savings and pay it off today.

But here's the thing. I've been out 4 years, and what I realized was how freaking expensive it is to live a decent lifestyle. Like holy hell, there just is never enough money to go around. I certainly don't live an extravagant lifestyle, but I'm comfortable and don't live pay check to pay check. My hubby and I pay $6000 per month between our mortgage, car payments, my student loans, home renovation loan, and various insurances. (Of that, only $1000 go towards student loans right now). And that's before we even consider everything else we need to live. Like wtf. And seriously my house needs another $100k+ in renovations before anyone else will even want to buy it. The only reason why I was even able to buy this modest home was because hubby had saved enough for a 20% down... With my lack of a savings account, the bank only wanted to lend me personally $30k... And totally, the only reason I have been able to pay a substantial amount of my loans off to begin with is my husband's income and savings. Even with that, to. make this happen, I work like a freaking beast. I work/volunteer 6 days a week most weeks. And I work 14hrs/day for at least 2-3 days every week. I can't continue to do that forever. My biologic clock is running out. I need to slow down and have kids if I ever want them, and my income will invariably suffer.

So I've managed just fine with a $150k student loan debt load. But I cannot fathom how miserable o would be with a 300k+ that a lot of people carry.

The thing is with student loans, you have to make a choice. Decide to pay it off as fast as you can so you minimize the amount of interest you pay over the course of the loan. Or you decide to pay the minimum, save for the tax at the end, and wait/pray for forgiveness. In the scenario of $300k taken out. If you try to pay it off in $10 years, you have to pay close to $4000 per month of your AFTER TAX earnings for TEN YEARS. That's insane. Like I did it for 3 years after vet school by continuing to live like a student and living off Hubby's income only. But I couldn't do that for much longer without feeling really poor.

If you decide to wait for forgiveness, you'd need to pay $600-700 per month minimal payment, and save an additional $700 per month for the tax at the end of 20 years. So really, $1400 per month for 20 years. That's not awful, but it's not great either. That's $1400 of your net income AFTER taxes that you don't have to spend on anything else in your life. Essentially that's as if your income is $23k less a year than you actually earn (assuming $25% tax, which is a low estimate esp if you have sig state taxes). That may be okay if you work full time and have a decent income with a spouse also having a decent income. But if you're female and thinking about having kids, it's really sad. Each kid you pop out is months of unpaid maternity leave. And unless you have affordable childcare, you're either blowing your salary on childcare or you're going part time. So that negative $23k on your salary starts to really hurt. Would you be happy long term with what's effectively a $60k salary (if not less with mat leave/part time hours) given how much it took to become a veterinarian, and how hard/demanding a veterinarian's job is?

 

[dyachei]

There was a recent merck study released about vets under 34 and how many would recommend the field to others. It's dismal. And one of the major reasons is loans.

I went IS to the cheap school and still pay 1/3 my take home money into loans every month.

Your mental health won't really change from school to school even though you think it will now. There are a few exceptions, but generally it won't matter

 

[DVMDream]

If you try to pay it off in $10 years, you have to pay close to $4000 per month of your AFTER TAX earnings for TEN YEARS. That's insane.

What doesn't click for people though not looking at this head on is how detrimental $4k per month is. For example, I had a very high starting salary for a new grad ($86k) my total monthly check minus health insurance and taxes was $4400... my loan payment for a 10 year repayment... $4100. It isn't feasible. Unless you can find living, food, gas, car insurance, clothing, etc for $300/month.

So then I am sure the next thought is "ok, I will pay it off over 25 years"... sure, fine, fine. Your payment decreases to $2700/month. So now you have $1700/month for any other debts, rent/mortgage, gas, car insurance, food, clothes, etc. It might be feasible, but it would be very, very tight. Very tight. So now you are living like a student for 25 years post-graduation.

Now I know you mentioned income based repayment at the end... I am currently paying ~$270ish/month off what was half a years worth of work (based on taxes and I submit that info each November). So in November, my payment will go up because I will have made a full year salary at that point. It should double, so maybe not quite $600, but close to.

 

[Minnerbelle]

What doesn't click for people though not looking at this head on is how detrimental $4k per month is. For example, I had a very high starting salary for a new grad ($86k) my total monthly check minus health insurance and taxes was $4400... my loan payment for a 10 year repayment... $4100. It isn't feasible. Unless you can find living, food, gas, car insurance, clothing, etc for $300/month.

So then I am sure the next thought is "ok, I will pay it off over 25 years"... sure, fine, fine. Your payment decreases to $2700/month. So now you have $1700/month for any other debts, rent/mortgage, gas, car insurance, food, clothes, etc. It might be feasible, but it would be very, very tight. Very tight. So now you are living like a student for 25 years post-graduation.

Now I know you mentioned income based repayment at the end... I am currently paying ~$270ish/month off what was half a years worth of work (based on taxes and I submit that info each November). So in November, my payment will go up because I will have made a full year salary at that point. It should double, so maybe not quite $600, but close to.

That's a good point. If a loan payment of $4000 per month doesn't phase people, that would be a problem... It literally is THE whole paycheck of someone earning $80k. At a combined ~$200k per year, hubs and I bring home about $10k/month. Literally this is the only reason why I'm comfortable. And I still couldn't afford a wedding or a vacation in the past 2 years...

It sooo is NOT the "well if I earn $80k, I can put $40k into my student loans and live off of $40k for 8 years to pay off my $300k loans" situation that most people think it is. All the interest, taxes, other stuff that gets taken out of your paycheck, etc... they're really brutal

I'm not sure exactly how the whole thing exactly works for figuring out PAYE monthly payments since the income gets adjusted. But with a base salary of 80k, my minimum monthly payment was ~$650 I'm pretty sure, which fits with the VIN foundation calculator I used to get the figures above.

 

[VFStudentDebt]

I'm a recent veterinary school graduate and married to a veterinarian. Together, we have $400,000 of veterinary school debt. Neither one of us regrets becoming veterinarians or the paths we took through veterinary school. So I think the "don't regret it?" is the wrong question. I think it's really hard for most pre-veterinary students and veterinary students to know what it means to have to manage $125k in student debt vs. $350k or more of student debt.

While I can't speak for all recent veterinary graduates, I can tell you that I work with veterinary students and recent graduate veterinarians every day, helping them manage their student debt and financial plans. The overwhelming majority of them don't regret their pathways/school choice to becoming a veterinarian, but they are stressed out about how to manage their student debt. And managing more student debt is inherently more difficult than managing less student debt. There are some facts that are just tough to ignore:

• If you attend veterinary school OOS and borrow to fund that education, you have the potential to pay more than 2-3x the cost to obtain that same DVM than your in-state classmates.
• All veterinary school graduates tend to earn the same income, no matter what school they attend or how much they paid. Your salary is a function of where you choose to work and what veterinary discipline you choose to pursue. Thus, pay as little as you can to obtain your veterinary degree.
• Paying more towards your loan in an effort to pay them off faster doesn't always end up as the least expensive way to pay your loans back. So don't make things harder than they already are by paying more towards your student loans than you have to once you do graduate.

As part of the student debt educational efforts we do with VIN Foundation, I would boil it down to three quick suggestions --

1. To pre-vets, don't pay more than you have to for your veterinary education, particularly if you're funding it with student loans. I would go so far as to encourage you not to include a school on your short-list that doesn't allow you to pay some kind of discounted tuition rate. There are a number of great schools that allow you to change your residency status after the first year. And as others have pointed out, sometimes those schools can actually be less expensive than your in-state option!
2. To vet students, don't borrow more than you have to. They make it extremely easy to obtain funds for graduate school. The less you borrow, the less you have to manage later. This may seem like common sense, but I can't tell you the number of students I meet who are taking the maximum, paying interest on student loans while they're in-school with other student loans, and not adjusting the awarded amounts because the school doesn't tell them how to or when to do that.
3. To recent veterinary graduates, don't pay more towards your student loans than you have to when you reach repayment, regardless of what you're parents tell you 🙂. Let your income dictate your minimum monthly student loan payment. In the majority of cases and in all out of state borrowing cases, income-driven repayment is going to be your best friend. Pay the minimum, plan for forgiveness, and build your financial wellness plan. You can use a tool like the VIN Foundation Student Loan Repayment Simulator to help you understand how that will work. Quite frequently, we see that it will be less expensive to pay your student loans back over 20-25 years and planning for forgiveness, versus attempting to pay a crippling amount of your monthly take-home pay towards your student loans. You don't have to sacrifice your financial wellness to pay your student loans down to zero faster than your income allows. My wife and I use REPAYE, pay the minimum and plan for forgiveness. We've been able to max out our retirement contributions, purchase a home, consider building a family and meet our other financial goals, which include occasional vacations 🙂. Our student loans have never prevented us from doing anything we've wanted to do personally or professionally.

Thank you to the person who posted about NC State potentially changing how easy it can be to obtain in-state residency. That would definitely be a game changer and we'll be sure to follow that closely. I would also encourage you to look at the average percentage increases for tuition for each school contained in the VIN Foundation Cost of Education Map. In the case of Wisconsin (mentioned previously), they had been one of the cheaper schools, until they started raising their tuition fast and furious over the recent years. I just came back from OK State this week and their third-year tuition increase 28% for residents as compared to the previous year!

When you're considering a school, ask their financial aid offices what their recent tuition increases have been and what they expect them to be the next year. There are a few schools like Florida, who have fixed their tuition, at least for in-state folks. Look for those opportunities too. Regardless, ask them questions so they know their applicants are paying attention to their costs. I think for too long, many of the schools have gotten away with obnoxious increases because their own students don't challenge them on it or choose other schools because of it. When people start making decisions based on their pocketbooks, we might start seeing some change...

No matter where you are in the process: pre-vet, vet student, or veterinarian in loan repayment, please do not hesitate to reach out to the VIN Foundation with any questions you may have -- we're here to help!!!

 

[cgr1818]

Although, I must add, a professor who was an elitist expletive still told me I didn’t deserve to be at Tufts cause I went to a liberal arts school and my parents graduated high school and were hard workers. He’s retired now, bless that expletive’s lack of soul.

Was this a certain Dr. E....?

 

[labrat9]

Thank you to the person who posted about NC State potentially changing how easy it can be to obtain in-state residency. That would definitely be a game changer and we'll be sure to follow that closely. I would also encourage you to look at the average percentage increases for tuition for each school contained in the VIN Foundation Cost of Education Map. In the case of Wisconsin (mentioned previously), they had been one of the cheaper schools, until they started raising their tuition fast and furious over the recent years. I just came back from OK State this week and their third-year tuition increase 28% for residents as compared to the previous year!

When you're considering a school, ask their financial aid offices what their recent tuition increases have been and what they expect them to be the next year. There are a few schools like Florida, who have fixed their tuition, at least for in-state folks. Look for those opportunities too. Regardless, ask them questions so they know their applicants are paying attention to their costs. I think for too long, many of the schools have gotten away with obnoxious increases because their own students don't challenge them on it or choose other schools because of it. When people start making decisions based on their pocketbooks, we might start seeing some change...

Somewhat off topic but, what are the reasons behind the constant inflation of tuition? I hear that vet schools raise it every year, eventually, they'll go over what students will be willing to pay for an education (although the costs are already barely manageable as is. My boss was OOS to Purdue and told me a number of his total COA when he was there which, with some googling to adjust for inflation, equates to about $16k/year for everything in today's dollars. Now its $61k/year OOS with total COA off their website)

I get that they are trying to provide more and more resources, but how much of that goes towards students? how much goes towards overhead/administrative costs and is this information ever made available? does this dramatic increase in tuition correlate with drastically increased quality of education?

I guess I'm just asking if this will ever plateau, will vet schools eventually say "we're training students very well to be entry level vets, lets hold steady for a while on new equipment/programs/gidgets and gadgets/whatever to pass those savings along to the students," or will it be "'why do we have to increase tuition?' ....'because we just do/everyone else is'"?

 

[Frozenshades]

Somewhat off topic but, what are the reasons behind the constant inflation of tuition? I hear that vet schools raise it every year, eventually, they'll go over what students will be willing to pay for an education (although the costs are already barely manageable as is. My boss was OOS to Purdue and told me a number of his total COA when he was there which, with some googling to adjust for inflation, equates to about $16k/year for everything in today's dollars. Now its $61k/year OOS with total COA off their website)

I get that they are trying to provide more and more resources, but how much of that goes towards students? how much goes towards overhead/administrative costs and is this information ever made available? does this dramatic increase in tuition correlate with drastically increased quality of education?

I guess I'm just asking if this will ever plateau, will vet schools eventually say "we're training students very well to be entry level vets, lets hold steady for a while on new equipment/programs/gidgets and gadgets/whatever to pass those savings along to the students," or will it be "'why do we have to increase tuition?' ....'because we just do/everyone else is'"?

It's not just a vet school problem. Yes vet school tuition is high, but tuition in general can be costly and it keeps goes up. Every year.

And I'm not sure there's a consensus on why really. There's the theory that colleges just do it because they can because loan money is so plentiful. Some argue a state reduction in funding to universities has led to the rising tuition. Still others argue that high salaries within ever bloating university administration systems are the cause. Some question if faculty salaries play a role, but the counterpoint made by some is that a university can grow enrollment rather than raise tuition.

Here's one (of many) articles about it: Study: Increased student aid, not faculty salaries, drives tuition up

There doesn't seem to be a simple answer.

You'd think a plateau would eventually be reached, but will it be because the price is finally high enough for students to abandon their goal, or will an effective change be made from the top down?

EDIT: While talking about rising rates...I looked back and during my first year of vet school in 2013 OOS tuition in Kansas was $45,415 for the year. 2017-2018 school year is listed as $54,366. That's almost a 20% increase. Like. That's in the neighborhood of a 35k total price increase for people who started this year vs what my class year paid. It's incredibly distressing.

 

[pp9]

It's not just a vet school problem. Yes vet school tuition is high, but tuition in general can be costly and it keeps goes up. Every year.

And I'm not sure there's a consensus on why really. There's the theory that colleges just do it because they can because loan money is so plentiful. Some argue a state reduction in funding to universities has led to the rising tuition. Still others argue that high salaries within ever bloating university administration systems are the cause. Some question if faculty salaries play a role, but the counterpoint made by some is that a university can grow enrollment rather than raise tuition.

Here's one (of many) articles about it: Study: Increased student aid, not faculty salaries, drives tuition up

There doesn't seem to be a simple answer.

You'd think a plateau would eventually be reached, but will it be because the price is finally high enough for students to abandon their goal, or will an effective change be made from the top down?

I was writing up something similar. There are just a ton of factors that go into how tuition is decided. Also, speaking of high salaries...public schools usually have some sort of website where you can look up the salary of any employee. You'd be surprised at both how little and how much some people get paid.

Plus, part of me doesn't think a plateau will ever be reached while we still have students/families willing to pay any price for the dream.

 

[Lupin21]

Somewhat off topic but, what are the reasons behind the constant inflation of tuition? I hear that vet schools raise it every year, eventually, they'll go over what students will be willing to pay for an education (although the costs are already barely manageable as is. My boss was OOS to Purdue and told me a number of his total COA when he was there which, with some googling to adjust for inflation, equates to about $16k/year for everything in today's dollars. Now its $61k/year OOS with total COA off their website)

I get that they are trying to provide more and more resources, but how much of that goes towards students? how much goes towards overhead/administrative costs and is this information ever made available? does this dramatic increase in tuition correlate with drastically increased quality of education?

I guess I'm just asking if this will ever plateau, will vet schools eventually say "we're training students very well to be entry level vets, lets hold steady for a while on new equipment/programs/gidgets and gadgets/whatever to pass those savings along to the students," or will it be "'why do we have to increase tuition?' ....'because we just do/everyone else is'"?

In OK's case, state funding being cut is a large reason. OK's economy is oil and gas based. That particular industry has taken a huge hit the past four years, meaning the state has a lot less income being generated and state college budgets get cut, so the buck gets passed onto us to help make up that loss.

 

[labrat9]

In OK's case, state funding being cut is a large reason. OK's economy is oil and gas based. That particular industry has taken a huge hit the past four years, meaning the state has a lot less income being generated and state college budgets get cut, so the buck gets passed onto us to help make up that loss.

That's understandable as it's a state subsidized university, our state schools (general undergrad/grad not just vet) saw a huuuge jump in tuition when we got a new governor who wants to privatize higher education- so large cuts in funding led to large increases in tuition costs. It was the same price for me to go OOS to the state next door for undergrad than to stay at our in-state universities.

I'm more questioning the slow-but-steady increases, correct me if I'm wrong but I believe VIN predicts them to be around 5%/year for some schools. Surely this isn't to account for huge losses like state budget cuts or donors pulling out, beyond normal currency inflation.

I was writing up something similar. There are just a ton of factors that go into how tuition is decided. Also, speaking of high salaries...public schools usually have some sort of website where you can look up the salary of any employee. You'd be surprised at both how little and how much some people get paid.

Plus, part of me doesn't think a plateau will ever be reached while we still have students/families willing to pay any price for the dream.

I interesting point and I agree. There are tons of people whose parents are willing to shell out the cost of tuition, and its hard enough to get pre-vet students to understand the grave difference of quality of life after graduation when taking on 150k in debt vs. 350k, its understandable to see why folks just throw their hands up and say "well its all expensive anyway just go for it".

 

[dyachei]

You say that but at least at utk, the administration did fight for us regarding tuition. The year after I left, the dean managed to get it so you'd no longer have to pay tuition for the summer semester in clinics. I mean it might not seem like much, but remember, the administration are vets, too, for the most part. They are also seeing the effects of tuition being high for the workforce

 

[pp9]

I interesting point and I agree. There are tons of people whose parents are willing to shell out the cost of tuition, and its hard enough to get pre-vet students to understand the grave difference of quality of life after graduation when taking on 150k in debt vs. 350k, its understandable to see why folks just throw their hands up and say "well its all expensive anyway just go for it".

If anything does change/students start saying no to absurd tuition, I can see the population of students moving from mostly middle class kids to mostly kids from wealthy families (if tuition never stops increasing). Higher education already does a good job boxing out students from families that struggle with poverty as it is. If we push out the middle class, how many people really will be going to vet school? I have a few classmates that I know of who are from wealthy families, but it doesn't seem like enough to support a vet school, especially when all of the programs are designed to accommodate 80-160ish students.

It's also worth mentioning that a good portion of current students have parents who never needed a student loan, and therefore really don't understand that student loans are different than a mortgage, are different than a car loan, etc. Besides that, a lot of parents come from the generation where a part time job paid for their entire degree. Even if they cosign on loans or whatever, they never see those numbers, you do.

Kids are also told 'follow your dreams, don't let anything stop you' from a very young age. The idea of 'money doesn't matter, do what you love' is widely accepted by society. I'm told that now when I share the fact that I'm $200,000 in the hole with one year to go.

You say that but at least at utk, the administration did fight for us regarding tuition. The year after I left, the dean managed to get it so you'd no longer have to pay tuition for the summer semester in clinics. I mean it might not seem like much, but remember, the administration are vets, too, for the most part. They are also seeing the effects of tuition being high for the workforce

U of I has no summer tuition, which is great. More schools need to be doing this. Otherwise, it equals out to you paying summer tuition and paying tuition for the vacation blocks you have to take (at least here, we cannot do on-campus stuff during our 8 weeks of vacation, so our 8 weeks of summer are free to balance that out).

 

[battie]

Here's a quick take on higher education costs from a youtuber that I watch while working. Not necessarily agreeing with him on all points (as there are a lot of points he didn't bring up), but I can certainly see his points on 1) amenities expected by students and 2) the "right fit" thing.

After attending and then working as residence life staff at one of the cheapest state colleges west of the Mississippi, it astounds me how much people expect at a school like U of I (in regards to undergrad amenities). The residence halls here blow my mind in comparison to what I lived/worked in. Same with expectations of classrooms after seeing A&M's new vet school at SAVMA last year. With hindsight, I much rather have the simple rooms my undergrad had and spend 10k/year (max, without scholarships) like at my undergrad vs this fancy shenanigans I see here. I have a cousin spending 50k/year (after scholarships) on a private school in New York whose mom used to make fun of my undergrad. Gotta say, she ain't making fun of my undergrad any more with each semester my cousin goes back.

As for the "right fit" thing, I mean, we touch on that all over the place in this forum. Is the "right fit" worth so much extra money. To my two vet med besties, totally is. To me, I would have gone to CSU in a heart beat if they had accepted me, no questions asked.

I can see the population of students moving from mostly middle class kids to mostly kids from wealthy families (if tuition never stops increasing).

I think we're already seeing this. Isn't the percent of vet med students who graduate debt free up to 18%? Basically one out of every five. That's a significant chunk of people.

 

[deleted676737]

I think we're already seeing this. Isn't the percent of vet med students who graduate debt free up to 18%? Basically one out of every five. That's a significant chunk of people.

The figure that we were given in school in 2016 was something like 10-11%. Has it increased since then? 18% seems high to me given the cost of the education and I just have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that nearly 1 in 5 students somehow have enough money to graduate debt free.

 

[pp9]

I think we're already seeing this. Isn't the percent of vet med students who graduate debt free up to 18%? Basically one out of every five. That's a significant chunk of people.

18 seems really high, where's the study? The last study I saw with an actual number had about 11% of students graduating debt free, but with most students owing over 150k. https://atwork.avma.org/2015/10/22/what-you-need-to-know-about-paying-for-veterinary-school/ Given the plight of the other 89% of vet students, I wouldn't say that we're moving towards a huge chunk of people being debt free

edit: @Elkhart you beat me to it!

Also wanting to add that 10% seems about right given my experience-that about fits for the number of IS students in my class who get multiple scholarships every year, or have gotten a few huge ones + them working well paying summer jobs and whatnot. It pays to be into swine medicine, that's for sure.

 

[deleted676737]

18 seems really high, where's the study? The last study I saw with an actual number had about 11% of students graduating debt free, but with most students owing over 150k. https://atwork.avma.org/2015/10/22/what-you-need-to-know-about-paying-for-veterinary-school/ Given the plight of the other 89% of vet students, I wouldn't say that we're moving towards a huge chunk of people being debt free

edit: @Elkhart you beat me to it!

Also wanting to add that 10% seems about right given my experience-that about fits for the number of IS students in my class who get multiple scholarships every year, or have gotten a few huge ones + them working well paying summer jobs and whatnot. It pays to be into swine medicine, that's for sure.

Honestly, I'm sort of amazed that it's even 10-11% given how expensive vet school is. Haha.

 

[ol_spicey]

1. To recent veterinary graduates, don't pay more towards your student loans than you have to when you reach repayment, regardless of what you're parents tell you 🙂. Let your income dictate your minimum monthly student loan payment. In the majority of cases and in all out of state borrowing cases, income-driven repayment is going to be your best friend. Pay the minimum, plan for forgiveness, and build your financial wellness plan. You can use a tool like the VIN Foundation Student Loan Repayment Simulator to help you understand how that will work. Quite frequently, we see that it will be less expensive to pay your student loans back over 20-25 years and planning for forgiveness, versus attempting to pay a crippling amount of your monthly take-home pay towards your student loans. You don't have to sacrifice your financial wellness to pay your student loans down to zero faster than your income allows. My wife and I use REPAYE, pay the minimum and plan for forgiveness. We've been able to max out our retirement contributions, purchase a home, consider building a family and meet our other financial goals, which include occasional vacations 🙂. Our student loans have never prevented us from doing anything we've wanted to do personally or professionally.

Thank you so much. It seems obvious now that you've said it but I bet I wouldn't have figured that out for a very long time. Do you think that planning for forgiveness could justify the cost of a more expensive school?