Anyone else get ticked off when non-physicians and non-dentists call themselves "doctor?"

[Lord_Vader]

---

Members don't see this ad.

This is probably one of my top pet peeves. I just hate it when I see people who are chiropractors or NPs calling themselves "doctor." Not only is it insulting to the actual doctors since we've gone through MUCH more training (both longer and more difficult) to obtain our degrees, but it also gives the wrong impression to a patient if for example an optometrist or podiatrist introduces themselves as "doctor." The title of "doctor" implies a large base of knowledge and training that these other professions lack. With that implication comes a trust that patients put into you and thus if you lack that training it's actually dishonest to represent yourself to patients as having that large knowledge base. Imo you should only be able to call yourself doctor if you have a PhD, DO, MD, or DMD.

 

[anonymoose1640]

Optometrists have to obtain a 4 year postgraduate doctor of optometry degree. Podiatrists have to obtain a 4 year postgraduate doctor of podiatric medicine degree. I think it's misleading if someone doesn't introduce themselves and state their purpose (i.e. I'm Dr. X, I'm a podiatrist here to examine your foot). But I don't necessarily agree that these highly trained people with advanced degrees shouldn't be called doctors (especially when it's in their degree title).

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Not even a little bit. I call my optometrist Dr. X, why wouldn't I? He's a doctor of optometry. I call my former chemistry professor from college Dr. as well, he earned his doctor of philosophy. Same with chiropractors when I meet them - it's Dr. Whoever.

 

[Mad Jack]

They're all doctors. Whether they are physicians or not is debatable- dentists are dentists, podiatrists are in a gray area (they should honestly be a medical subspecialty, but whatever, history is weird like that), the rest of them are not physicians but they are doctors. Chill out.

 

[Taddy Mason]

Haven't had this discussion in ages.

 

[WheezyBaby]

Jesus

 

[AlbinoHawk DO]

This is probably one of my top pet peeves. I just hate it when I see people who are chiropractors or NPs calling themselves "doctor." Not only is it insulting to the actual doctors since we've gone through MUCH more training (both longer and more difficult) to obtain our degrees, but it also gives the wrong impression to a patient if for example an optometrist or podiatrist introduces themselves as "doctor." The title of "doctor" implies a large base of knowledge and training that these other professions lack. With that implication comes a trust that patients put into you and thus if you lack that training it's actually dishonest to represent yourself to patients as having that large knowledge base. Imo you should only be able to call yourself doctor if you have a PhD, DO, MD, or DMD.

Podiatrists are as much physicians as MD/DO when coming from my school. They have to take the exact same pre-clinical coursework, 2 years clinical clerkships and then complete a surgical residency.

 

[Goro]

This seems to be an issue only with medical students. Just let it go...there are worse things in the world. And please, don't fall into the "I went to school for 10 years; I'm better than you" mindset. We just had one metastatic tumor of a thread excised on a related topic. I still need a dose of cis-platin from it.

This is probably one of my top pet peeves. I just hate it when I see people who are chiropractors or NPs calling themselves "doctor." Not only is it insulting to the actual doctors since we've gone through MUCH more training (both longer and more difficult) to obtain our degrees, but it also gives the wrong impression to a patient if for example an optometrist or podiatrist introduces themselves as "doctor." The title of "doctor" implies a large base of knowledge and training that these other professions lack. With that implication comes a trust that patients put into you and thus if you lack that training it's actually dishonest to represent yourself to patients as having that large knowledge base. Imo you should only be able to call yourself doctor if you have a PhD, DO, MD, or DMD.

 

[738177]

This is probably one of my top pet peeves. I just hate it when I see people who are chiropractors or NPs calling themselves "doctor." Not only is it insulting to the actual doctors since we've gone through MUCH more training (both longer and more difficult) to obtain our degrees, but it also gives the wrong impression to a patient if for example an optometrist or podiatrist introduces themselves as "doctor." The title of "doctor" implies a large base of knowledge and training that these other professions lack. With that implication comes a trust that patients put into you and thus if you lack that training it's actually dishonest to represent yourself to patients as having that large knowledge base. Imo you should only be able to call yourself doctor if you have a PhD, DO, MD, or DMD.

I'm curious why you think DMD's are allowed to be called Doctors but Podiatrists aren't...
Is it just because Dentistry is more popular?

 

[bobtheweazel]

This is probably one of my top pet peeves. I just hate it when I see people who are chiropractors or NPs calling themselves "doctor." Not only is it insulting to the actual doctors since we've gone through MUCH more training (both longer and more difficult) to obtain our degrees, but it also gives the wrong impression to a patient if for example an optometrist or podiatrist introduces themselves as "doctor." The title of "doctor" implies a large base of knowledge and training that these other professions lack. With that implication comes a trust that patients put into you and thus if you lack that training it's actually dishonest to represent yourself to patients as having that large knowledge base. Imo you should only be able to call yourself doctor if you have a PhD, DO, MD, or DMD.

At Temple the DPM and MD currículums are more similar than the DMD and MD currículums. The dental students don't even learn anatomy below the pelvis whereas the podiatry students do head to toe dissections, cross sections, MRIs, X Rays, etc. We learn the same biochem, same pharm, same physio, same etc as the MDs. Plus in 3rd year we rotate through other medical specialties alongside MDs/DOs and again in residency where PGY1 is primarily rotations through the same medical specialties as MDs/DOs before branching off into podiatric rotations.

If you wanna go by difficulty, we're responsible for the same depth and breadth of the basic sciences as our MD counterparts at our school.

If you wanna go by length, DPMs are required to complete 4 years of medical school followed by 3-4 year surgical residencies (though the vast majority are 3 year). So, the same as most MDs/DOs.

Couple all of this with the fact that an MD is not an MD is not an MD. Currículums and training vary significantly between different MD schools. Temple DPMs probably have more currículum overlap with Temple MDs than 'generic MD school' and Temple MDs.

Point is, DPMs and MDs are more similar than you think, it's basically just another medical specialty at this point. I can't/won't speak as to the depth of education and training of the other professions you attempted to belittle.



Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[Frazier]

OP you lost me when he said Podiatrists shouldn't call themselves doctor.

Come on, man, they can go into an OR and amputate body parts for gods sake.

 

[bashwell]

I don't care what people call themselves as long as they don't misrepresent themselves.

 

[Donald Juan]

Ok, so we all seem to be in agreement: we'll leave the podiatrists and optometrists alone. Let's stick to bashing DNPs and ER physicians.

 

[Trogghunter]

the podiatry students do head to toe dissections, cross sections, MRIs, X Rays, etc. We learn the same biochem, same pharm, same physio, same etc as the MDs.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

Seriously? Does it all apply to feet? Did you all take an ethics class, for example, that applied to feet...the ethics of long vs short toenails?

 

[Staphylococcus Aureus]

Out of all the professions using the Dr. Title, why on earth waste your time attacking podiatrists? I will always refer to a podiatrist as Dr.

 

[bobtheweazel]

Seriously? Does it all apply to feet? Did you all take an ethics class, for example, that applied to feet...the ethics of long vs short toenails?

Some of us joke "what's a foot?" because we don't really start learning about feet and ankles for a while.

I understand what you're getting at and I would say the extra courses are a waste for us as much as they are a waste for you—but personally I don't think they're much of a waste. If you wanna liken a podiatrist to a foot and ankle orthopedist, then what you're saying is basically that by that orthopedist learning about the anatomy of the inner ear, the histology of the pancreas, or about some drugs that they'll never prescribe in practice that they're wasting their time. So what you're saying is a hack at the MD/DO medical model as much as it is ours.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[Brorthopedic]

All physicians are doctors, but not all are doctors are physicians. Deal with it.

 

[Brorthopedic]

Seriously? Does it all apply to feet? Did you all take an ethics class, for example, that applied to feet...the ethics of long vs short toenails?

I forgot podiatrists just deal with feet and not patients. How are you even in medical school when you make statements like that? It's an embarrassment to our profession.

 

[Trogghunter]

So what you're saying is a hack at the MD/DO medical model as much as it is ours.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

In med school your future field of medicine isn't chosen prior to your first class or even prior to match day, and clinicians don't memory dump everything that doesn't apply to their field, despite what you may think after getting or calling a consult. Can't say the same for strictly researchers, but I havent worked with enough of them to find out. I frequently have(required) to consult podiatry for corns/callouses/toenail trimming and I just can't imagine how going through med school pharmacology helps with any of that.

 

[witzelsucht]

podiatrists dont bother me, but i see a decent number of physical therapists talking about "being a doctor" ....that's kinda annoying

 

[Trogghunter]

I forgot podiatrists just deal with feet and not patients. How are you even in medical school when you make statements like that? It's an embarrassment to our profession.

If you had ever worked at the VA or with community podiatry you'd understand. You've definitely never worked at the VA. Learn you will, frustrated it will make you.

 

[vm26]

This seems to be an issue only with medical students. Just let it go...there are worse things in the world. And please, don't fall into the "I went to school for 10 years; I'm better than you" mindset. We just had one metastatic tumor of a thread excised on a related topic. I still need a dose of cis-platin from it.

Maybe current medical students are more sensitive to this because at the core there's a fear about being reimbursed similarly down the road since everyone is a "doctor"

 

[bobtheweazel]

In med school your future field of medicine isn't chosen prior to your first class or even prior to match day, and clinicians don't memory dump everything that doesn't apply to their field, despite what you may think after getting or calling a consult. Can't say the same for strictly researchers, but I havent worked with enough of them to find out. I frequently have(required) to consult podiatry for corns/callouses/toenail trimming and I just can't imagine how going through med school pharmacology helps with any of that.

I wouldn't expect any specialist (podiatrist or otherwise) to memory dump what doesn't specifically apply to their specialty. Like I said, I don't think the extra education and training is a waste. I was just pointing out that it's similar to your model. I mean if you feel like that extra knowledge helps you make a referral or better understand a pathology or whatever, then why would that not also be beneficial to a podiatrist?

I ain't mad though. 30 years ago people complained that podiatrists only knew about feet and ankles and not enough about the rest of the body that those feet and ankles are attached to. And now podiatrists learn about everything and people find a way to talk smack about that too. It is what it is I suppose.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[bobtheweazel]

I frequently have(required) to consult podiatry for corns/callouses/toenail trimming and I just can't imagine how going through med school pharmacology helps with any of that.

That's like saying all a dermatologist does is hand out lotion or all an opthalmologist does is do eye exams. You chose like the most mundane, boring things within a podiatrist's scope, which most podiatrists realistically have their MA do anyway except in hospitals or nursing homes.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[Staphylococcus Aureus]

There are naturopaths walking around not only using the Dr title but calling themselves licensed primary care physicians and you are whining that podiatrists (residency trained foot experts with a historical divide) shouldn't be called Dr....

 

[bobtheweazel]

Yea, I think you'd have a solid argument against naturopaths, chiropractors, and PAs (my PCP's PA would tell us to call her Dr 'insert name here') and a good argument against DNPs who primarily take online courses to get the doctorate. No comment on optometrists and dentists. But the weakest possible argument you could make is against podiatrists.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[DOFOSHO]

Dr. Dre - doctor of ghetto beats.
Rug Doctor - no can clean a carpet better, no matter how nasty.
Dr. Pepper - best soda ever.

 

[bobtheweazel]

Maybe current medical students are more sensitive to this because at the core there's a fear about being reimbursed similarly down the road since everyone is a "doctor"

But they really shouldn't be worried. If reimbursements will be greater for quality and med students are confident that they will provide the highest quality care, then what is there to be concerned about? They just need to give the system time to reveal what they already believe to be true. I mean up until recently anybody could claim anything (profession x should be allowed to do this because blah blah blah) but as providers are required to submit more and more information shouldn't we get a clearer picture of who should be doing what?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[vm26]

But they really shouldn't be worried. If reimbursements will be greater for quality and med students are confident that they will provide the highest quality care, then what is there to be concerned about? They just need to give the system time to reveal what they already believe to be true. I mean up until recently anybody could claim anything (profession x should be allowed to do this because blah blah blah) but as providers are required to submit more and more information shouldn't we get a clearer picture of who should be doing what?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

"quality" care is a tricky thing to define, payers can use numerous subjective/objective outcome measurements to suit their needs. In its current form, it seems to be a way of under-paying providers for services (reverse-gaming the system?)

 

[evilbooyaa]

As others have stated, I think Optometrists (in their own clinical setting within their office, or addressing them if they are a patient) can be called Doctor. The only grey area is if/when they try to represent themselves as ophthalmologists (god that's a hard word).

Clinical psychologists may be a grey area. Again, if they're not representing themselves as a psychiatrist, then I think that's appropriate.

Podiatrists are doctors without a second thought, even in the clinical setting. If an orthopedic surgeon is considered a doctor, than a podiatrist should be too. If a dentist can be a doctor, then Podiatry sure as hell should.

Main issues of inappropriate use of doctor (only in a clinical setting, I couldn't really care less outside) is DNPs, DPTs (never heard a PT call themselves doctor, FWIW), PAs, Chiropractors, Naturopathic Physicians, Homeopathic Doctors.

They may all technically be doctors due to the letters, but I don't want them going into my patient's room and starting off with "I'm Dr. so-and-so"

I mean, don't get me started on Chiros/Naturos/Homeos but you won't see them in allopathic medicine anyways so whatever.

 

[Staphylococcus Aureus]

I mean, don't get me started on Chiros/Naturos/Homeos but you won't see them in allopathic medicine anyways so whatever.

This forum should at least get started on chiros and naturos before ripping on science based professions. So much hoopla on nurses and PAs yet not a word about anti-science chiropractors literally on every street I drive by taking money from millions of people who think they're primary care doctors and want "holistic, natural care."

 

[W19]

Ok, so we all seem to be in agreement: we'll leave the podiatrists and optometrists alone. Let's stick to bashing DNPs and ER physicians.

No one bashes ER docs here...

The NP degree is a joke!

 

[tux4]

Close thread


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

 

[BANGO]

As others have stated, I think Optometrists (in their own clinical setting within their office, or addressing them if they are a patient) can be called Doctor. The only grey area is if/when they try to represent themselves as ophthalmologists (god that's a hard word).

Clinical psychologists may be a grey area. Again, if they're not representing themselves as a psychiatrist, then I think that's appropriate.

Podiatrists are doctors without a second thought, even in the clinical setting. If an orthopedic surgeon is considered a doctor, than a podiatrist should be too. If a dentist can be a doctor, then Podiatry sure as hell should.

Main issues of inappropriate use of doctor (only in a clinical setting, I couldn't really care less outside) is DNPs, DPTs (never heard a PT call themselves doctor, FWIW), PAs, Chiropractors, Naturopathic Physicians, Homeopathic Doctors.

They may all technically be doctors due to the letters, but I don't want them going into my patient's room and starting off with "I'm Dr. so-and-so"

I mean, don't get me started on Chiros/Naturos/Homeos but you won't see them in allopathic medicine anyways so whatever.

Never heard of anyone giving a s*^% about a dentist being addressed as doctor in real life. They address themselves as so in the hospital, and if they don't state they are a dentist, it becomes very apparent when they focus on the dentition/oral cavity. I definitely think podiatrist and optometrist should be addressed as doctor but it gets muddled if doctor, in a clinical setting, is associated with being the most knowledgeable/expert in the field. It seems people have trouble viewing optometry and podiatry as this, since they cannot do anything that an ophthalmologist or orthopedist cannot. This makes some see them as a redundant/little brother specialty. In the same way this obviously applies to DNP,psychology,chiropractor,physical therapist, etc. Dentistry does not have a physician/MD counterpart that has more expertise in the oral cavity or can downplay them.

 

[bobtheweazel]

I definitely think podiatrist and optometrist should be addressed as doctor but it gets muddled if doctor, in a clinical setting, is associated with being the most knowledgeable/expert in the field. It seems people have trouble viewing optometry and podiatry as this, since they cannot do anything that an ophthalmologist or orthopedist cannot. This makes some see them as a redundant/little brother specialty.

The main difference here is that optometry really is entirely under the umbrella of what an opthalmologist can/does do. It's not the same with podiatry and orthopedics. Podiatrists treat wounds, do vascular work, nerve work, corns, calluses, and toenails (as pointed out earlier) that foot and ankle orthopedists wouldn't normally touch whereas foot and ankle orthopedists might take general orthopedic call which podiatrists cannot. So there's overlap, but I wouldn't say that it's redundant in the same way that optometry is for ophthalmology.


Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

 

[cdmguy]

The term doctor has been bastardized by quacks and opportunists to prey on the vulnerable. Alt-med doctors need to be delicensed and their schools shuttered. Nurse doctors need to be put under supervision.

 

[SnozzBerry]

The main difference here is that optometry really is entirely under the umbrella of what an opthalmologist can/does do. It's not the same with podiatry and orthopedics. Podiatrists treat wounds, do vascular work, nerve work, corns, calluses, and toenails (as pointed out earlier) that foot and ankle orthopedists wouldn't normally touch whereas foot and ankle orthopedists might take general orthopedic call which podiatrists cannot. So there's overlap, but I wouldn't say that it's redundant in the same way that optometry is for ophthalmology.


Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

Is this because orthopods aren't trained enough to do such things, or is it because they would rather be doing other procedures that are more profitable for them? Please excuse my ignorance on this.

 

[farmdwannab]

Im insulted nobody mentioned pharmacists

 

[SnozzBerry]

Im insulted nobody mentioned pharmacists

Probably because it's generally accepted that pharmacists don't refer to themselves as dr. XYZ in the hospital or elsewhere.

 

[KingD]

Nursing students should go by doctor.

Sent from my SM-G930T using SDN mobile

 

[Oh_Gee]

Jesus

Dr. Jesus

 

[SansaStarkMD]

But they really shouldn't be worried. If reimbursements will be greater for quality and med students are confident that they will provide the highest quality care, then what is there to be concerned about? They just need to give the system time to reveal what they already believe to be true. I mean up until recently anybody could claim anything (profession x should be allowed to do this because blah blah blah) but as providers are required to submit more and more information shouldn't we get a clearer picture of who should be doing what?

Sent from my Nexus 5X using SDN mobile

Yea except the diabetic no shows on the panel bring value numbers down when their BP is out of control for years on end and you haven't seen them. The systems that measure value are pretty terrible. You actually look better if you refuse to see people who really really need a doctor.

 

[SansaStarkMD]

The other pseudo medical professions getting **** blocked by MD/DO's gives me hope in the war on backdoors, encroachment, shortcuts, hurt feelings, and the confidently incorrect.

As for titles, call yourself Mr. President for all I care. People are just going to laugh at you. Your loss really.

 

[762513]

Ok, so we all seem to be in agreement: we'll leave the podiatrists and optometrists alone. Let's stick to bashing DNPs and ER physicians.

Maybe you guys need to reevaluate why you went into medicine to begin with.

Maybe focusing on providing excellent care would be far more effective for protecting your profession than worrying about this topic.

 

[jdh71]

As an actual one of those "real" "doctors," I don't care.

 

[762513]

As an actual one of those "real" "doctors," I don't care.

Wish I could like this twice. 🙂

 

[jdh71]

Wish I could like this twice.

What I'm *really* worried tonight about is the lady with pulmonary fibrosis and worsening hypoxic respiratory failure that isn't getting better despite steroids and antibiotics. I'm pretty sure she is going to die despite everything I can do. Nice lady. Nice family. And I'm not going to win this one.

Who gives two ****s what the DNPs want to call themselves.

 

[762513]

What I'm *really* worried tonight about is the lady with pulmonary fibrosis and worsening hypoxic respiratory failure that isn't getting better despite steroids and antibiotics. I'm pretty sure she is going to die despite everything I can do. Nice lady. Nice family. And I'm not going to win this one.

Who gives two ****s what the DNPs want to call themselves.

I hope your night goes as well as it can go, even if the worst happens.

 

[vm26]

What I'm *really* worried tonight about is the lady with pulmonary fibrosis and worsening hypoxic respiratory failure that isn't getting better despite steroids and antibiotics. I'm pretty sure she is going to die despite everything I can do. Nice lady. Nice family. And I'm not going to win this one.

Who gives two ****s what the DNPs want to call themselves.

I hear you, at this point I don't care what people call themselves. I work at a small community semi-rural hospital where most go by their 1st name (interestingly the hospital name badges clearly states everyone's title in bright orange lettering-"doctors" are MDs/DOs)...things get a bit more problematic when your "doctor" DNP colleague is in a position to question your management of your patient with pulmonary fibrosis (btw best of luck with her, I'm not a clinician and can only imagine how rough that situation is)

 

[762513]

I hear you, at this point I don't care what people call themselves. I work at a small community semi-rural hospital where most go by their 1st name (interestingly the hospital name badges clearly states everyone's title in bright orange lettering-"doctors" are MDs/DOs)...things get a bit more problematic when your "doctor" DNP colleague is in a position to question your management of your patient with pulmonary fibrosis (btw best of luck with her, I'm not a clinician and can only imagine how rough that situation is)

Indeed, let's just agree that anyone who has gone to medical school has all the answers and never needs a team to help them take care of their patients. It's important that medical school graduates feel superior and without the need for help.

Oh, and DNPs are awful people and know nothing about patient care, despite their years experience.