Anyone has any success match stories from dismissed US students who transferred to caribbean?

[DrCallOfDuty1997]

I was dismissed last week from a US school for professionalism reasons. I don’t want to disclose my case to protect my identity, but my dismissal was my own making and justified. I have only myself to my blame for my shortcomings. That being said, I passed step 1 on my first attempt, never failed a course, have done research, and I’ve done more positive things to add to my resume. I definitely have what it takes academically, but I have to work on my personality. I’m hoping to continue rotations in the US as Caribbean med student, but I’d just like to hear any match success stories since I am going through a rough time, feel like total crap, and I’m just looking for a glimmer of hope. Thank you.

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[OMSWeebHours]

That's a very difficult situation. It may be easier to get into Caribbean and that may work in your favor, but it is a very uphill battle to actually match a residency. If you are good at academics, it may help but it is not a guarantee. The worst case scenario I would see here is going through Caribbean and then ending up like the students without a residency.

If you don't apply that scenario can't happen, but then you may also not become a doctor. I'd suggest writing a list out and assessing other career options as well since I think a back-up is really necessary if things don't pan out.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

no

 

[OMSWeebHours]

no

Yeah, in general I heavily recommend against Caribbean schools. Even being good at classes/tests may not be enough. If you are well above the average you still may run into some difficulties. And the residency options are often very limited if available at all..

So OP should note that 1) there is a high risk of not getting through and 2) if you do make it you will probably need to be satisfied in FM.
That said, it is probably the only option to become a doctor in the US if you were completely dead set on it. That option comes at tremendous risk and if you actually did will have to be VERY good at the grind and go beyond everyone, as in those schools they are just not that invested in you, it is sink or swim.

I definitely recommend researching other careers and prospects before taking your next action, as the way I see it going into a different profession in the medical field or something else entirely will be more attainable and there are some good jobs. If you have a strong academic record for non-med programs it may help offset other concerns.

But, no one can really make the choice but the OP. I seriously suggest weighing the risks, pros and cons, and your own values together before making a final decision.

 

[operaman]

Yeah that’s a tough spot. Any prospective residency is not only going to see you’re coming from the Caribbean, but they’ll also see you were dismissed from a US med school during the clinical years with an otherwise solid transcript. Caribbean alone is a very tough match, but that plus a US med school dismissal may be impossible to overcome. You’re going to have to explain the situation and hope someone is willing to take a big risk. And even if you do find that person, you’ve got to survive at least 3 years of rotations without the same issue or something similar coming up again.

You may also have a hard time finding a Caribbean school to take you at all. Since none of them have their own hospitals, they rely on arrangements with US hospitals for their own rotations and last thing they need is a student screwing that up for them. You may find the good schools risk averse too.

I think other career paths are probably the safest bet at this point. It’s pretty hard to change a personality, but there are surely career paths that would play to your strengths.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

My take is slightly different.

If you can find a Carib school to take you (which I expect you can), then your chance of graduating is actually quite good. The failures in the carib schools are almost always in the preclinical curriculum, once you're through S1 and into clinicals I expect the grad rate is close to 100%. Seems unlikely you'd have troubles with S2.

As mentioned above, your choices of field will be much more limited. FM/IM/Peds is common. Path and Neuro also. Some carib grads do end up in Anesthesia, or Surgery, but those are much more difficult to get.

The big issue is the reason you were dismissed from your US school. You will have to disclose this on your application to residency, and on your state license applications. Depending upon the infraction, programs may not consider you at all. Professionalism issues tend to fall into three categories:
1. Illegal behavior. This could include stealing, substance use, fraud, etc.
2. Interpersonal issues. This includes poor communication with nursing and physicians and patients, can include getting into arguments, or "being disrespectful", or otherwise generating lots of complaints. Lying falls somewhere between #1 and #2.
3. Paperwork / process issues. This can include not turning in assignments, not completing required logs, not doing onboarding modules. Also includes just not showing up for work.

If your issues fall into #1, even if no actual charges are being filed, then I am concerned that you will be toast when you apply.
If your issues fall into #2 or #3, it's impossible to know what will happen. These types of problems tend to be chronic. They are bad habits, and they are hard to break. Programs may be concerned that you will continue to have similar issues -- not logging duty hours, or problems with nurses, etc. You can hope that clinical time while in school again will give you a clean slate -- but it will only be one year by the time you're applying, and programs may not be mollified.

Perhaps most important is whether you have "fixed" whatever the problem is. Chances are that your school gave you warnings before termination (although not always). If so, you didn't make enough of a change to continue. What's to stop the same thing from happening again? You may argue that you've "learned your lesson" given the severity of the outcome, but if it takes that harsh of an outcome to get you to actually seriously make a change, is that the kind of person we would want to hire?

So I think you first need to be honest with yourself about how you got yourself into this position. I'm worried that addressing the underlying issues make take some time. All medical schools are going to get concerned if you start taking long breaks -- although a 1 year break is probably acceptable. You will need to restart your MS3 from the beginning.

 

[DrCallOfDuty1997]

no

So then why comment? Why make someone feel worse than what they are already feeling ???

 

[DrCallOfDuty1997]

My take is slightly different.

If you can find a Carib school to take you (which I expect you can), then your chance of graduating is actually quite good. The failures in the carib schools are almost always in the preclinical curriculum, once you're through S1 and into clinicals I expect the grad rate is close to 100%. Seems unlikely you'd have troubles with S2.

As mentioned above, your choices of field will be much more limited. FM/IM/Peds is common. Path and Neuro also. Some carib grads do end up in Anesthesia, or Surgery, but those are much more difficult to get.

The big issue is the reason you were dismissed from your US school. You will have to disclose this on your application to residency, and on your state license applications. Depending upon the infraction, programs may not consider you at all. Professionalism issues tend to fall into three categories:
1. Illegal behavior. This could include stealing, substance use, fraud, etc.
2. Interpersonal issues. This includes poor communication with nursing and physicians and patients, can include getting into arguments, or "being disrespectful", or otherwise generating lots of complaints. Lying falls somewhere between #1 and #2.
3. Paperwork / process issues. This can include not turning in assignments, not completing required logs, not doing onboarding modules. Also includes just not showing up for work.

If your issues fall into #1, even if no actual charges are being filed, then I am concerned that you will be toast when you apply.
If your issues fall into #2 or #3, it's impossible to know what will happen. These types of problems tend to be chronic. They are bad habits, and they are hard to break. Programs may be concerned that you will continue to have similar issues -- not logging duty hours, or problems with nurses, etc. You can hope that clinical time while in school again will give you a clean slate -- but it will only be one year by the time you're applying, and programs may not be mollified.

Perhaps most important is whether you have "fixed" whatever the problem is. Chances are that your school gave you warnings before termination (although not always). If so, you didn't make enough of a change to continue. What's to stop the same thing from happening again? You may argue that you've "learned your lesson" given the severity of the outcome, but if it takes that harsh of an outcome to get you to actually seriously make a change, is that the kind of person we would want to hire?

So I think you first need to be honest with yourself about how you got yourself into this position. I'm worried that addressing the underlying issues make take some time. All medical schools are going to get concerned if you start taking long breaks -- although a 1 year break is probably acceptable. You will need to restart your MS3 from the beginning.

I fall into #3. Never had interpersonal or legal problems. And yes I was given ample warnings before dismissal

 

[GoSpursGo]

I fall into #3. Never had interpersonal or legal problems. And yes I was given ample warnings before dismissal

So the key question will be--if you were given ample warnings prior to dismissal, why should a prospective residency program believe that your problems will suddenly be better in residency?

As @NotAProgDirector said, these problems tend to create headaches for residency programs. Many programs might be more likely to take someone who started at a Carib school and had no issues. But you just need one program to take a shot on you. I understand why you're not discussing the details here, but truly, the details likely make all the difference in determining if you can come back from this.

 

[LucidSplash]

My take is slightly different.

If you can find a Carib school to take you (which I expect you can), then your chance of graduating is actually quite good. The failures in the carib schools are almost always in the preclinical curriculum, once you're through S1 and into clinicals I expect the grad rate is close to 100%. Seems unlikely you'd have troubles with S2.

As mentioned above, your choices of field will be much more limited. FM/IM/Peds is common. Path and Neuro also. Some carib grads do end up in Anesthesia, or Surgery, but those are much more difficult to get.

The big issue is the reason you were dismissed from your US school. You will have to disclose this on your application to residency, and on your state license applications. Depending upon the infraction, programs may not consider you at all. Professionalism issues tend to fall into three categories:
1. Illegal behavior. This could include stealing, substance use, fraud, etc.
2. Interpersonal issues. This includes poor communication with nursing and physicians and patients, can include getting into arguments, or "being disrespectful", or otherwise generating lots of complaints. Lying falls somewhere between #1 and #2.
3. Paperwork / process issues. This can include not turning in assignments, not completing required logs, not doing onboarding modules. Also includes just not showing up for work.

If your issues fall into #1, even if no actual charges are being filed, then I am concerned that you will be toast when you apply.
If your issues fall into #2 or #3, it's impossible to know what will happen. These types of problems tend to be chronic. They are bad habits, and they are hard to break. Programs may be concerned that you will continue to have similar issues -- not logging duty hours, or problems with nurses, etc. You can hope that clinical time while in school again will give you a clean slate -- but it will only be one year by the time you're applying, and programs may not be mollified.

Perhaps most important is whether you have "fixed" whatever the problem is. Chances are that your school gave you warnings before termination (although not always). If so, you didn't make enough of a change to continue. What's to stop the same thing from happening again? You may argue that you've "learned your lesson" given the severity of the outcome, but if it takes that harsh of an outcome to get you to actually seriously make a change, is that the kind of person we would want to hire?

So I think you first need to be honest with yourself about how you got yourself into this position. I'm worried that addressing the underlying issues make take some time. All medical schools are going to get concerned if you start taking long breaks -- although a 1 year break is probably acceptable. You will need to restart your MS3 from the beginning.

I suspect the larger issue is no matter the reasoning behind the dismissal, the OP is likely to be filtered out at most programs. So even if OP has a good story of rehabilitation, most programs won’t even see it to make an assessment.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I suspect the larger issue is no matter the reasoning behind the dismissal, the OP is likely to be filtered out at most programs. So even if OP has a good story of rehabilitation, most programs won’t even see it to make an assessment.

Eh, I disagree. There are plenty of rural IM and FM programs that routinely fill with predominantly IMGs who can't be picky. The app is likely to be read, but the details of this dismissal will determine whether they decide to read any further.

 

[LucidSplash]

Eh, I disagree. There are plenty of rural IM and FM programs that routinely fill with predominantly IMGs who can't be picky. The app is likely to be read, but the details of this dismissal will determine whether they decide to read any further.

Maybe, but IMG/FMG is a different issue than dismissal. I still think likely to hit a wall of filters in most places due to dismissal.

 

[Goro]

I was dismissed last week from a US school for professionalism reasons. I don’t want to disclose my case to protect my identity, but my dismissal was my own making and justified. I have only myself to my blame for my shortcomings. That being said, I passed step 1 on my first attempt, never failed a course, have done research, and I’ve done more positive things to add to my resume. I definitely have what it takes academically, but I have to work on my personality. I’m hoping to continue rotations in the US as Caribbean med student, but I’d just like to hear any match success stories since I am going through a rough time, feel like total crap, and I’m just looking for a glimmer of hope. Thank you.

Am I close to 20 years of being on SDN, I've never read of this happening.

People who have been dismissed from one US medical school getting into another medical school, rarely, but that has happened.

 

[wysdoc]

This student says they were able to do it, but doesn't disclose much

I was admitted to a new school after being dismissed from my original school.

As this new cycle begins, I want to give some encouragement and advice to dismissed students. I was officially dismissed from my original American medical school. I applied to medical school again and got into to another medical school (American, not Caribbean). Before applying, I scoured SDN...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

So then why comment? Why make someone feel worse than what they are already feeling ???

It’s just not worth the risk reward unless you have a trust fund and your parents are paying to subsidize your life. In all honestly, you could finish perfectly and still not end up matching. Then what? You have 400k student loans and 5-6 years of opportunity cost

 

[DrCallOfDuty1997]

So the key question will be--if you were given ample warnings prior to dismissal, why should a prospective residency program believe that your problems will suddenly be better in residency?

As @NotAProgDirector said, these problems tend to create headaches for residency programs. Many programs might be more likely to take someone who started at a Carib school and had no issues. But you just need one program to take a shot on you. I understand why you're not discussing the details here, but truly, the details likely make all the difference in determining if you can come back from this.

I don’t believe any words can make a program believe my issues simply went away. My goal is to start rotations, not run into kind of disciplinary actions with the added bonus of honouring my rotations. I also aim to gather good LoRs and show continued interest and research in my residency of interest (anesthesia) . That’s the only thing, I believe, that can assure my problems are in the past.

 

[GoSpursGo]

I don’t believe any words can make a program believe my issues simply went away. My goal is to start rotations, not run into kind of disciplinary actions with the added bonus of honouring my rotations. I also aim to gather good LoRs and show continued interest and research in my residency of interest (anesthesia) . That’s the only thing, I believe, that can assure my problems are in the past.

Like I said, the details matter. If it’s a really bad professionalism issue, then I think you’re done. Even if you honor every rotation, they’ll assume the Carib school is just propping you up to help their match rate or that the oversight isn’t strong enough to catch your issues.

Even if I were to entertain the idea that you could match, there is 0 chance you would match in anything remotely competitive like anesthesia.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Maybe, but IMG/FMG is a different issue than dismissal. I still think likely to hit a wall of filters in most places due to dismissal.

I think we’re likely debating semantics. I took what you said as the app literally getting screened out due to dismissal so no human ever reads any part of the app. I suspect someone will read far enough at many less selective programs to see he was dismissed and why… and then stop reading. The end result is probably the same

 

[DrCallOfDuty1997]

It’s just not worth the risk reward unless you have a trust fund and your parents are paying to subsidize your life. In all honestly, you could finish perfectly and still not end up matching. Then what? You have 400k student loans and 5-6 years of opportunity cost

Like I said, the details matter. If it’s a really bad professionalism issue, then I think you’re done. Even if you honor every rotation, they’ll assume the Carib school is just propping you up to help their match rate or that the oversight isn’t strong enough to catch your issues.

Even if I were to entertain the idea that you could match, there is 0 chance you would match in anything remotely competitive like anesthesia.

Are you saying 0 chance of matching gas due to the dismissal regardless of the reason or 0 chance of matching gas depending on the reason for dismissal?

 

[LucidSplash]

I think we’re likely debating semantics. I took what you said as the app literally getting screened out due to dismissal so no human ever reads any part of the app. I suspect someone will read far enough at many less selective programs to see he was dismissed and why… and then stop reading. The end result is probably the same

Yes I meant running up against a filter so that no one ever lays eyes on it at all. You’re probably correct in that it amounts to the same thing either way.

 

[LucidSplash]

Are you saying 0 chance of matching gas due to the dismissal regardless of the reason or 0 chance of matching gas depending on the reason for dismissal?

He can speak for himself but I’ll preemptively agree with what he meant. Zero chance of matching anything competitive like anesthesia regardless of the reason. Competitive specialties don’t have to take a chance on someone with a blemish that may have been rehabilitated. They have plenty of applicants with great grades who do not have a significant blemish at all.

 

[operaman]

Agree with the others - zero chance on a competitive field. And the dismissal and surrounding story is going to be front and center of the app because it’s going to make everything seem screwy. If he just transfers for clinical years, then eras is going to show transcripts from two different schools. If he goes back and repeats pre clinical south of the border and never submits old school transcripts at all, then he’s left with a really old suspicious step one date because you can’t retake a step once it’s been passed. Anyone who looks at this app will be thinking WTH happened here.

Anesthesia is becoming quite a hot specialty these days as shortages worsen and pay skyrockets. Many US grads with solid apps are struggling to match right now. Anesthesiologists, in my experience, tend to be fairly risk averse people. Hard to picture one being willing to take a chance like this when they’ve got a few hundred other candidates with spotless records.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Anesthesia from the carib is already a tough road. I also worry that with this dismissal, it may be impossible. You should only consider this road if you would be OK with a community IM or FM spot. Sure, you can try for anesthesia, but you'll need a solid backup plan.

Agree that details matter. You could post again in the confidential forum. Only verified experts can see your post there, and would never post publically.

 

[DrStephenStrange]

Agree with the others - zero chance on a competitive field. And the dismissal and surrounding story is going to be front and center of the app because it’s going to make everything seem screwy. If he just transfers for clinical years, then eras is going to show transcripts from two different schools. If he goes back and repeats pre clinical south of the border and never submits old school transcripts at all, then he’s left with a really old suspicious step one date because you can’t retake a step once it’s been passed. Anyone who looks at this app will be thinking WTH happened here.

Anesthesia is becoming quite a hot specialty these days as shortages worsen and pay skyrockets. Many US grads with solid apps are struggling to match right now. Anesthesiologists, in my experience, tend to be fairly risk averse people. Hard to picture one being willing to take a chance like this when they’ve got a few hundred other candidates with spotless records.

This!!! There lies all the issues you will encounter going forward should you pursue continuing with medical school at a different school (no matter where). The fact that you have already taken Step 1, no matter what you do going forward, there will always be questions surrounding your residency application. You will always need to explain the situation, and that right there, put you at serious disadvantage for any competitive specialty. If you decide to go forward, make sure you are very comfortable with rural/community FM/IM/Peds, and even these programs will scrutinize you hard before they even give you a chance.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Are you saying 0 chance of matching gas due to the dismissal regardless of the reason or 0 chance of matching gas depending on the reason for dismissal?

0 chance of gas due to the dismissal regardless of the reason.

In addition to the fact that gas is just increasingly competitive, any potential professionalism issue is also going to be amplified in gas specifically because all your drugs are controlled substances. So even if your professionalism issue wasn't related to anything patient-care related, a paperwork/process issue is still going to be unattractive in a potential anesthesiologist.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Agree with the above. No residency director wants to hire a problem for 4 years when so many qualified applicants are applying. You can shoot for the stars, but you will need a solid plan B in a specialty you might be competitive. By the time you would apply for residency, those may be far less. You don't want to " not" match and have all the loans come due.

 

[Robin-jay]

I was dismissed last week from a US school for professionalism reasons. I don’t want to disclose my case to protect my identity, but my dismissal was my own making and justified. I have only myself to my blame for my shortcomings. That being said, I passed step 1 on my first attempt, never failed a course, have done research, and I’ve done more positive things to add to my resume. I definitely have what it takes academically, but I have to work on my personality. I’m hoping to continue rotations in the US as Caribbean med student, but I’d just like to hear any match success stories since I am going through a rough time, feel like total crap, and I’m just looking for a glimmer of hope. Thank you.

Perhaps if it was a mild profession issue like attendance, that's more understanding than say, a violent outburst.

You may be be able to disclose such cases with much less problems.

Is your professional issue something violent?

 

[LeaveNoTrace]

My take is slightly different.

If you can find a Carib school to take you (which I expect you can), then your chance of graduating is actually quite good. The failures in the carib schools are almost always in the preclinical curriculum, once you're through S1 and into clinicals I expect the grad rate is close to 100%. Seems unlikely you'd have troubles with S2.

As mentioned above, your choices of field will be much more limited. FM/IM/Peds is common. Path and Neuro also. Some carib grads do end up in Anesthesia, or Surgery, but those are much more difficult to get.

The big issue is the reason you were dismissed from your US school. You will have to disclose this on your application to residency, and on your state license applications. Depending upon the infraction, programs may not consider you at all. Professionalism issues tend to fall into three categories:
1. Illegal behavior. This could include stealing, substance use, fraud, etc.
2. Interpersonal issues. This includes poor communication with nursing and physicians and patients, can include getting into arguments, or "being disrespectful", or otherwise generating lots of complaints. Lying falls somewhere between #1 and #2.
3. Paperwork / process issues. This can include not turning in assignments, not completing required logs, not doing onboarding modules. Also includes just not showing up for work.

If your issues fall into #1, even if no actual charges are being filed, then I am concerned that you will be toast when you apply.
If your issues fall into #2 or #3, it's impossible to know what will happen. These types of problems tend to be chronic. They are bad habits, and they are hard to break. Programs may be concerned that you will continue to have similar issues -- not logging duty hours, or problems with nurses, etc. You can hope that clinical time while in school again will give you a clean slate -- but it will only be one year by the time you're applying, and programs may not be mollified.

Perhaps most important is whether you have "fixed" whatever the problem is. Chances are that your school gave you warnings before termination (although not always). If so, you didn't make enough of a change to continue. What's to stop the same thing from happening again? You may argue that you've "learned your lesson" given the severity of the outcome, but if it takes that harsh of an outcome to get you to actually seriously make a change, is that the kind of person we would want to hire?

So I think you first need to be honest with yourself about how you got yourself into this position. I'm worried that addressing the underlying issues make take some time. All medical schools are going to get concerned if you start taking long breaks -- although a 1 year break is probably acceptable. You will need to restart your MS3 from the beginning.

To second this, @DrCallOfDuty1997. I'm not a psychiatrist, and if I was this wouldn't be medical advice. However, if these issues fell into #2 or #3 it might be well worth it to get tested for ADHD or other neurodivergence. I've known some intelligent, hardworking people that began to struggle in medical school; they sought help, were diagnosed with ADHD, and succeeded after getting treatment for it. Good luck to you whatever you decide to do, but seriously consider the idea that there is something you haven't yet thought of that's been problematic for you so far. I'd suggest getting professional counseling, if only to unpack the emotions that this must have caused - it's not easy, being dismissed from medical school.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Don’t go to the Caribbean thinking you’ll get into a competitive specialty because you won’t. Assuming you could get into anything at all, it’ll be a community primary care position in the middle of nowhere. And I’d wager your odds at that as <50%. I did my intern year at that kind of program and can confidently say you’d only get an interview if you had a personal connection.

You’re absolutely not getting into gas.

Are you ready to drop $400k on a snowballs chance in hell at getting a job in a field you don’t want? If so, go for it.

 

[Hollow Knight]

So then why comment? Why make someone feel worse than what they are already feeling ???

I refrained from commenting on this post as I am an M3 and felt like the attendings (@NotAProgDirector specifically for example) would have more to contribute.

However- this is basically what I was going to say. If this guy/gal was my child, or sibling, I would advise them to pick a different career. The reason is that going to the caribbean is a HUGE financial gamble- OP is going to borrow the tuition of a Caribbean med school on top of whatever they already owe, and quite frankly, they most likely wont get hired anyway. I just don't think the cost of not matching is worth taking the chance.

Being a caribbean grad is bad enough, but one that lied, cheated, etc? It's going to be VERY hard to match.

If you're rich and can just pay cash for med school, and you want, then hey, knock yourself out.