Anyone have experience with a LOR from high up the food chain?

[vlada5]

My strongest LOR writer is a high ranking chief at my top choice med school. He will write an extremely strong letter. He is very close to the dean of the medical school. I am a non-trad with my Achilles heel being a low uGPA (3.0/2.9), excellent application otherwise. In all seriousness, how much will these relationships be able to help me? How should I navigate this? Real life experiences and substantiated anecdotes welcome. Thank you.

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[What's Up Doc]

What's your MCAT score?

 

[type12]

If it's a real relationship, it will guarantee you an acceptance; if it's just a courtesy he does to anyone who asks him, then it's a good recommendation and nothing more.

EDIT: In my experience, they usually tell you if that's the case.

 

[vlada5]

What's your MCAT score?

Taking in September, AAMCs 30-38 so far.
Edit: Also 8 years of research, several publications, one with the chief I mentioned.

 

[vlada5]

If it's a real relationship, it will guarantee you an acceptance; if it's just a courtesy he does to anyone who asks him, then it's a good recommendation and nothing more.

EDIT: In my experience, they usually tell you if that's the case.

Thanks for the response. (Edit: He is a research mentor as well as a close family friend. To be honest, I generally don't like using these types of connections even though it's done broadly, but my GPA and my knowledge that it doesn't reflect my true potential leaves me in no position to be holier-than-thou.) I would really like to just reach the interview stage so that I can prove myself in person to the adcom. I didn't know if even that would be possible, given that schools publish their accepted GPA ranges, and some have strict computer cut-offs that I may not make. I always thought that they would not risk skewing that profile, but perhaps shameful outliers can be deleted?

 

[type12]

Thanks for the response. To be honest, I would really like to just reach the interview stage so that I can prove myself to the adcom. I didn't know if even that would be possible, given that schools publish their accepted GPA ranges, and some have strict computer cut-offs that I may not make. I always thought that they would not risk skewing that profile, but perhaps shameful outliers can be deleted?

They are not deleted: that's part of the 10th percentile that is unpublished (remember, the range is the 90th percentile).

 

[vlada5]

They are not deleted: that's part of the 10th percentile that is unpublished (remember, the range is the 90th percentile).

Is this true even for the statistics mentioned in the entering class profile on their websites? It doesn't specify a percentile there.

 

[type12]

Is this true even for the statistics mentioned in the entering class profile on their websites? It doesn't specify a percentile there.

Depends on their wording, got a link?

 

[vlada5]

.

 

[mimelim]

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/letters-of-recommendation.985472/

 

[Goro]

This type of thing might help get you an interview, but that's as far as it goes. The AdCom will then politely smile at you and then low wait list or reject you.

I've seen LORs from US senators, and Nobel laureates. They won't save a marginal candidate.

My strongest LOR writer is a high ranking chief at my top choice med school. He will write an extremely strong letter. He is very close to the dean of the medical school. I am a non-trad with my Achilles heel being a low uGPA (3.0/2.9), excellent application otherwise. In all seriousness, how much will these relationships be able to help me? How should I navigate this? Real life experiences and substantiated anecdotes welcome. Thank you.

 

[jd989898]

This type of thing might help get you an interview, but that's as far as it goes. The AdCom will then politely smile at you and then low wait list or reject you.

I've seen LORs from US senators, and Nobel laureates. They won't save a marginal candidate.

You always say things like "It'll get you an interview, but I'd reject you immediately after the interview." Why would you want to interview someone you knew you were going to reject? I'm guessing the school makes a profit somehow.

 

[baxt1412]

It depends on how much of a risk they want to take on you.... seeing as all students are investments basically.

 

[Goro]

I don't invite the people; our wily old Admissions Dean does. Do you really want as a colleague someone who didn't learn anything about life sciences as a student?

You always say things like "It'll get you an interview, but I'd reject you immediately after the interview." Why would you want to interview someone you knew you were going to reject? I'm guessing the school makes a profit somehow.

 

[type12]

You always say things like "It'll get you an interview, but I'd reject you immediately after the interview." Why would you want to interview someone you knew you were going to reject? I'm guessing the school makes a profit somehow.

It's more like, you have to look like the most amazing person in the world at the interview to be waitlisted.

 

[vlada5]

Thank you to all for your replies and perspectives! I think I've gotten the necessary information. I feel no further need to prove myself to you on this forum; I'll save that for my application.

 

[LizzyM]

I have first hand experience as an adcom with this.... one was a non-trad, undergrad gpa similar to yours @vlada5, applicant was not premed as an undergrad, post-bac 3.8 or something, MCAT >36 (I don't recall exactly). no LOR from anyone impressive but a phone call from a relative's spouse who was a highly ranked school official. Applicant blew us away at the interview. I can think of two other traditional applicants that had well below avg gpa and below avg MCAT and some influential relatives....both impressed us with exceptional interview skills. All were admitted and did very well.

 

[shishy]

I have first hand experience as an adcom with this.... one was a non-trad, undergrad gpa similar to yours @vlada5, applicant was not premed as an undergrad, post-bac 3.8 or something, MCAT >36 (I don't recall exactly). no LOR from anyone impressive but a phone call from a relative's spouse who was a highly ranked school official. Applicant blew us away at the interview. I can think of two other traditional applicants that had well below avg gpa and below avg MCAT and some influential relatives....both impressed us with exceptional interview skills. All were admitted and did very well.

If you'll indulge me, what about an interviewee is so outstanding that it blows you away? I'm a little curious - is it more or less a combination of what they talked about and how they presented themselves (i.e. unique life experiences, etc.)?

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

You always say things like "It'll get you an interview, but I'd reject you immediately after the interview." Why would you want to interview someone you knew you were going to reject? I'm guessing the school makes a profit somehow.

The rationale for inviting someone you don't really think has a chance of getting admitted (in a case like this) is maintaining social capital.

Scenario A:
Prestigious LOR writer calls dean and says "I got this great kid!"
Dean smiles and nods and says "oh great sounds awesome let's get him here for an interview"
Student gets rejected (or wait listed) eventual. LOR writer calls dean "WTF happened??"
Dean says "Look you know how these committees are, I loved him, I pushed for him, but I just couldn't make it happen"

Scenario B:
Prestigious LOR writer calls dean and says "I got this great kid!"
Dean says "2.9 GPA, he'll never get in!"
...
How does prestigious LOR writer react to that and how does dean defend him/herself?

 

[LizzyM]

The rationale for inviting someone you don't really think has a chance of getting admitted (in a case like this) is maintaining social capital.

Scenario A:
Prestigious LOR writer calls dean and says "I got this great kid!"
Dean smiles and nods and says "oh great sounds awesome let's get him here for an interview"
Student gets rejected (or wait listed) eventual. LOR writer calls dean "WTF happened??"
Dean says "Look you know how these committees are, I loved him, I pushed for him, but I just couldn't make it happen"

Scenario B:
Prestigious LOR writer calls dean and says "I got this great kid!"
Dean says "2.9 GPA, he'll never get in!"
...
How does prestigious LOR writer react to that and how does dean defend him/herself?

Absolutely Scenario A happens all the time. With Scenario B, what the Dean says is, "thank you. We'll give him every consideration. Do keep in mind that we're only able to interview x% of the applicants and the competition is fierce. We'll do what we can. " It is up for the caller to read between the lines. It would be a violation of the applicant's privacy for the Dean to release the applicant's GPA to the caller.

An interview that blows us away is a combination of maturity, sincerity,personality, communication skills, career goals, experiences, and the interpretation of those experiences.

 

[gyngyn]

You always say things like "It'll get you an interview, but I'd reject you immediately after the interview." Why would you want to interview someone you knew you were going to reject? I'm guessing the school makes a profit somehow.

These "courtesy" interviews are all about the demonstration of power (the recommender showing that they can pull strings). It's often politically easier to just interview the poor kid, since (as noted above) we can't tell the trustee that the kid has a 22 MCAT and a snowball's chance.

 

[AshleyDP15]

Vlada5 let us know what happens!