Anyone have questions for a former HPSP cardiologist?

[HeartDoc14]

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I'm happy to help anyone thinking of applying for an HPSP scholarship, or those already in the program.

 

[colierun23]

I'm happy to help anyone thinking of applying for an HPSP scholarship, or those already in the program.

I do! Did you get your first choice for residency? How was military residency in general? Did you have to do a GMO tour? Did you get deployed during your payback service, and if so where and what was it like?

Thanks 🙂

 

[HeartDoc14]

I do! Did you get your first choice for residency? How was military residency in general? Did you have to do a GMO tour? Did you get deployed during your payback service, and if so where and what was it like?

Thanks 🙂

I was actually deferred for residency, along with about half of the graduates my year, but I believe that is no longer very common. However, I was very involved in military GME. I think that military residencies are quite good, especially at the bigger programs. The residents and fellows we trained were generally quite good. SInce I trained in a civilian program, but trained others in the military, I think I'm in a good position to compare the two, and I can confidently say that the best military residents were on par with the strong residents at the top tier civilian programs.

I didn't do a GMO tour. This is much less common in the Air Force than it is in the other branches.

No, I was not deployed. I was in an academic position and assigned to the medical school; deployment in those types of positions is much less common.

 

[nmj3236]

Hi,

I just made my own thread about this, but maybe you can help. I think I just read you're in the Air Force, right? If so...

I've been planning on doing HPSP for a while now, and got cleared medically (selected) last week. I'm off to Virginia Tech Carilion next year, which is a fairly new school. I JUST found out this morning that the Air Force apparently doesn't participate HPSP-wise with schools that don't have full accreditation. VTC graduates its first class next summer, so they won't move from 'provisional' to 'full' accreditation until then. My recruiter apparently had no knowledge of this policy (not surprising), and I only found out about this when I spoke with the VTC admissions office about this program.

The Army and Navy HPSP programs recognize schools across the spectrum of accreditation. Why is the AF different? I was really counting on this scholarship/path, so today's been pretty disappointing to say the least.

Do you know any AF physicians who attended insitutions that were in the process of achieving full accreditation? Any insight into the situation? Any chance they'll make an exception?

 

[375RGRRGT]

I'm happy to help anyone thinking of applying for an HPSP scholarship, or those already in the program.

Would you do it again???

 

[yaoguai]

Question: Ideally, I hope to be in an academic environment for my residency. I like being around scholarship and having other disciplines around to augment the medical education I would be receiving. Do you get this in military residencies?

Can you talk more about the academic position you were in and what academic opportunities there are doing HPSP?

Thanks!

 

[Mirror Form]

I was actually deferred for residency, along with about half of the graduates my year, but I believe that is no longer very common. However, I was very involved in military GME. I think that military residencies are quite good, especially at the bigger programs. The residents and fellows we trained were generally quite good. SInce I trained in a civilian program, but trained others in the military, I think I'm in a good position to compare the two, and I can confidently say that the best military residents were on par with the strong residents at the top tier civilian programs.

I didn't do a GMO tour. This is much less common in the Air Force than it is in the other branches.

No, I was not deployed. I was in an academic position and assigned to the medical school; deployment in those types of positions is much less common.

So how long ago was this? Do you think the experience you had is similar to the experience that those signing up today will have?

From your history, it seems like you had it pretty good. No deployments and stationed in an academic slot in Bethesda for your career.

 

[colbgw02]

I didn't do a GMO tour. This is much less common in the Air Force than it is in the other branches.

I disagree with this. AF GMO tours are becoming less common, in my experience, but they are still considerably more common than in the Army.

 

[HeartDoc14]

I disagree with this. AF GMO tours are becoming less common, in my experience, but they are still considerably more common than in the Army.

We must have had very different experiences. I know very few Air Force docs that did a GMO tour, unless they were a weak applicant applying for a very competitive residency. But those same people would unlikely have matched at all in a civilian program. The exception is probably dermatology.

 

[HeartDoc14]

Would you do it again???

Though it would be a tough choice, I think I would, because I went to a very expensive medical school. I enjoyed my time in the military, built life-long personal and professional relationships, and practiced in a solid medical environment. The patients are appreciative and there's a lot of interesting pathology.

From a financial standpoint, I don't think it's necessarily worth it if you plan on going to a relatively inexpensive medical school or if you foresee going into a high paying specialty (ortho, anesthesia, cardiology, etc). If you're going into primary care, it's definitely worth it. The problem is, you probably won't decide what to specialize in until after you've accepted the scholarship.

 

[HeartDoc14]

So how long ago was this? Do you think the experience you had is similar to the experience that those signing up today will have?

From your history, it seems like you had it pretty good. No deployments and stationed in an academic slot in Bethesda for your career.

I separated from the AF 4 years ago. BRAC has changed things a bit, but the experience today is still pretty similar.

 

[HeartDoc14]

Hi,

I just made my own thread about this, but maybe you can help. I think I just read you're in the Air Force, right? If so...

I've been planning on doing HPSP for a while now, and got cleared medically (selected) last week. I'm off to Virginia Tech Carilion next year, which is a fairly new school. I JUST found out this morning that the Air Force apparently doesn't participate HPSP-wise with schools that don't have full accreditation. VTC graduates its first class next summer, so they won't move from 'provisional' to 'full' accreditation until then. My recruiter apparently had no knowledge of this policy (not surprising), and I only found out about this when I spoke with the VTC admissions office about this program.

The Army and Navy HPSP programs recognize schools across the spectrum of accreditation. Why is the AF different? I was really counting on this scholarship/path, so today's been pretty disappointing to say the least.

Do you know any AF physicians who attended insitutions that were in the process of achieving full accreditation? Any insight into the situation? Any chance they'll make an exception?

I'm sorry that I can't really help you on this one. You should call the AF physician education department and talk to them. Otherwise, the Army may be your best choice.

 

[notdeadyet]

We must have had very different experiences. I know very few Air Force docs that did a GMO tour, unless they were a weak applicant applying for a very competitive residency. But those same people would unlikely have matched at all in a civilian program. The exception is probably dermatology.

What year did you apply for your GME-1 year? The answer might explain the different experience you have had versus those who have gone through the process more recently.

 

[colbgw02]

We must have had very different experiences. I know very few Air Force docs that did a GMO tour, unless they were a weak applicant applying for a very competitive residency. But those same people would unlikely have matched at all in a civilian program. The exception is probably dermatology.

Evidently. I work at a combined Army/Air Force residency of above average competitiveness. Only a handful of AF residents receive continuous training. The majority come from GMO tours, and that includes the residents scheduled to start July 2013. The opposite is true of the Army side of the house. That tendency is even more true among the staff, because it's only relatively recently that AF has beefed up its continuous contracts.

In fact, the trend is so strong that I'm having a difficult time seeing how your assertion could be true. I could be overestimating the percentage of AF GMOs based on my experience, but that's still not the same as saying that an Army GMO tour is more likely than an AF one (your original point). I'm not saying that AF GMO tours are common for all specialties, just that they're more common than in the Army on a specialty by specialty comparison.

You said that you were deferred for your residency, but what about fellowship? Someone mentioned that you were stationed at Bethesda, which I believe would have been chiefly Navy with a strong Army presence (more so now, obviously).

 

[sonofva]

Can you talk a bit about time spent as a gmo? Pros, cons, ways to prevent skill atrophy? I'm probably going to do one after intern year. Thanls

 

[HeartDoc14]

Evidently. I work at a combined Army/Air Force residency of above average competitiveness. Only a handful of AF residents receive continuous training. The majority come from GMO tours, and that includes the residents scheduled to start July 2013. The opposite is true of the Army side of the house. That tendency is even more true among the staff, because it's only relatively recently that AF has beefed up its continuous contracts.

In fact, the trend is so strong that I'm having a difficult time seeing how your assertion could be true. I could be overestimating the percentage of AF GMOs based on my experience, but that's still not the same as saying that an Army GMO tour is more likely than an AF one (your original point). I'm not saying that AF GMO tours are common for all specialties, just that they're more common than in the Army on a specialty by specialty comparison.

You said that you were deferred for your residency, but what about fellowship? Someone mentioned that you were stationed at Bethesda, which I believe would have been chiefly Navy with a strong Army presence (more so now, obviously).

I believe you ARE overestimating the number of AF GMOs based on your personal experience. It's all a numbers game. There are "x" number of spots. There are "y" number of applicants. If y>x, some will do GMOs. Those that do will get points for serving in the field, and that will put them at an advantage when they reapply. I'm sure that each specialty has trends within each branch of the military, but in my experience of over 10 years, there were many more people that did GMOs in the Army or Navy. A weak applicant, however, is likely to do a GMO tour in any service. However, that same applicant may not have matched at all in the civilian world.

I did an active duty fellowship. I wasn't stationed in Bethesda, but I held a USUHS billet for four years. I was also on both the residency and fellowship steering committees where I was stationed.

 

[HeartDoc14]

Can you talk a bit about time spent as a gmo? Pros, cons, ways to prevent skill atrophy? I'm probably going to do one after intern year. Thanls

I can't, because I was never a GMO. Sorry.

 

[Droopy Snoopy]

I believe you ARE overestimating the number of AF GMOs based on your personal experience. It's all a numbers game. There are "x" number of spots. There are "y" number of applicants. If y>x, some will do GMOs. Those that do will get points for serving in the field, and that will put them at an advantage when they reapply. I'm sure that each specialty has trends within each branch of the military, but in my experience of over 10 years, there were many more people that did GMOs in the Army or Navy. A weak applicant, however, is likely to do a GMO tour in any service. However, that same applicant may not have matched at all in the civilian world.

I did an active duty fellowship. I wasn't stationed in Bethesda, but I held a USUHS billet for four years. I was also on both the residency and fellowship steering committees where I was stationed.

I completely agree w/colbwg02. In my AF match year and the immediately preceeding year at least 25% of the graduating M4 applicant pool went to GMO/FS billets (can still google those JSGMESB results). Army GMOs are proportionally much fewer. Am not as familiar with Navy but understand that it's almost a requirement to first do Dive/FS/etc.

 

[Jas1360]

I'm looking into applying for the HPSP scholarship. I was recently accepted to medical school. I would like to know what the disadvantages are for my SO because I am married and we have two children. My SO is up for the idea so far but I feel like they can only see the financial incentive and I want them to have a full picture before I commit to something that involves the next 12 years of both of our lives.

If you have/had a spouse what would they say were the worst things for them as a military spouse? Best?

 

[pgg]

I'm looking into applying for the HPSP scholarship. I was recently accepted to medical school. I would like to know what the disadvantages are for my SO because I am married and we have two children. My SO is up for the idea so far but I feel like they can only see the financial incentive and I want them to have a full picture before I commit to something that involves the next 12 years of both of our lives.

If you have/had a spouse what would they say were the worst things for them as a military spouse? Best?

What does your other half do?

The career of a stay-at-home mom doesn't take the same kind of hit a professional full-time career does.

The forced moves every few years and the single parenting during deployments are the biggest drawbacks.

 

[Jas1360]

What does your other half do?

The career of a stay-at-home mom doesn't take the same kind of hit a professional full-time career does.

The forced moves every few years and the single parenting during deployments are the biggest drawbacks.

My spouse currently works full-time to help pay my way through school. It is not a "career" type job, just something that works for us at the moment. S/he is looking forward to cutting back to 30-40 hours a week or less once medical school begins.

We both like to travel and we have chosen to move rather frequently as civilians. So that is something we will look forward to.

 

[Jas1360]

My other concern is the fact that we have two young children ages about 2 and 6.

Is it true that I would be non-deployable until I finish residency? If so, that would be good because they would be about 10 and 14 before I had my first deployment.

By the way, I and my spouse are going into this under the assumption that I will be deployed because it would by stupid to think that it won't happen and panic when it does.

 

[pgg]

My spouse currently works full-time to help pay my way through school. It is not a "career" type job, just something that works for us at the moment. S/he is looking forward to cutting back to 30-40 hours a week or less once medical school begins.

Then maybe not too big a deal. Of course, if you are counting on that second income, then obviously you're both at the mercy of whatever job market you end up stationed in. The recession may be officially over 🙄 but nationwide unemployment is high, and finding a transient but decent job that pays enough may be difficult. Especially since military bases are always full of people just like you, also looking for transient but decent jobs that pay enough.

Is it true that I would be non-deployable until I finish residency?

No. You're non-deployable DURING residency, but many people do GMO time between intern year (PGY1) and residency (PGY2+). The odds of you having to do a GMO tour depend on your chosen specialty and which branch of military service, and range from lowish (less competitive Army residencies) to 100% (most Navy residencies). Lots of threads on GMO tours. It's probably safest to assume you'll do one, and then be pleasantly surprised if you don't.

The odds of deployment during GMO time are presently very high, but much depends on how many wars we're fighting when you hit that window. But even in peacetime GMOs deploy as part of our military's routine forward presence.

 

[Jas1360]

Ok, so I should assume a possible deployment in four years right out of medical school?

Just no deployments during medical school or during residency, correct?

 

[pgg]

Ok, so I should assume a possible deployment in four years right out of medical school?

Earliest you could be deployed, short of WWIII and zombies, is after your intern year. Intern year is the 1st year after medical school.

Just no deployments during medical school or during residency, correct?

Or internship.

 

[oneyearwonder]

Ok, so I should assume a possible deployment in four years right out of medical school?

Just no deployments during medical school or during residency, correct?

One guy's thoughts:

1) if you're having concerns/worries about deployments affecting your family NOW, then it NEVER gets easier--kids get older, more kids show up (sometimes unexpectedly), spouse/Significant Other finds his/her dream job, parents get older, etc. Life happens. things change. (the .milmed doesn't--still needs warm bodies in austere environments)

2) the people who seemed happiest in the .milmed and the happiest GMOs were the docs (and spouses) who somehow loved deployments. The UNhappiest docs in the .milmed and UNhappiest GMOs were those who had real reasons (typically kids/family issues/aging parents/spouse jobs) to fret/hate/try-to-dodge deployments.

3) again, if you're concerned/worried about deployments cramping your style now, it NEVER gets any easier to go. Especially when they give you short notice deployments, even up to a year (don't worry the recruiter will tell you that will "never" happen. It DOES, albeit rarely)

Life happens. Things change.

The .milmed doesn't change however: they still need warm bodies in austere environments. (preferably well-meaning, self-sacrificial, debt-averse people like I was as a premed)

my goal in this is to provide a glimpse into the possiblilites of your life for 8-10yrs from now.


best wishes!

 

[bobbyseal]

My other concern is the fact that we have two young children ages about 2 and 6.

Is it true that I would be non-deployable until I finish residency? If so, that would be good because they would be about 10 and 14 before I had my first deployment.

By the way, I and my spouse are going into this under the assumption that I will be deployed because it would by stupid to think that it won't happen and panic when it does.

Others have touched upon the GMO issue and the possible deployment during that time. While in residency, you're protected, but some residents do go on TAD for month long away rotations to other states or even countries on humanitarian/learning missions.

Expect to be deployed. Expect to be moved around for the needs of the military. You're orders aren't locked in. You could have your orders broken and moved. You might find that your children enjoy the school they are in and then the next year, you have to move across the country. Now, the new base location isn't as good as the one you were previously in. The school system might suck there. The military doesn't care. As a doctor, you're just another cog in a rusty machine keeping it functional at best.

 

[oneyearwonder]

Others have touched upon the GMO issue and the possible deployment during that time. While in residency, you're protected, but some residents do go on TAD for month long away rotations to other states or even countries on humanitarian/learning missions.

Expect to be deployed. Expect to be moved around for the needs of the military. You're orders aren't locked in. You could have your orders broken and moved. You might find that your children enjoy the school they are in and then the next year, you have to move across the country. Now, the new base location isn't as good as the one you were previously in. The school system might suck there. The military doesn't care. As a doctor, you're just another cog in a rusty machine keeping it functional at best.

Agreed 100%. It NEVER gets any easier to deploy with time. Again, if you're worried about what deployment will do to your 2 and 6 yr old, imagine forward 8yrs or so to what it'll do to your tween and teen.

I've got ALL the respect for people who choose this life knowing it. That's the value of this forum. Knowledge is power.

I just think the .milmed recruiters capitalize on young, impressionable, honorable medical students. and they LIE to them.

 

[pgg]

Again, if you're worried about what deployment will do to your 2 and 6 yr old, imagine forward 8yrs or so to what it'll do to your tween and teen.

My first deployment was 9 years ago, when my kids were 2, 4, and 6. I'm deployed now, and this one is harder on them. The oldest is the only one who even remembers that first deployment.

Although this deployment is maybe a little easier on my wife, since 11, 13, and 15 year old kids are in school full time, and even during non school hours they can be left to fend for themselves for a while.

 

[metabolite]

Heartdoc - did you get my pm and do you have any advise for me....